The_Inquisitor
Member
They have steam survey data but how reasonable is it to assume a large part of the VR owners are running dual cards? I'm looking at a Vive later this year and plan to run my PC with a single 1080.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck
- Thread starter taco543
- Start date
- Status
They have steam survey data but how reasonable is it to assume a large part of the VR owners are running dual cards? I'm looking at a Vive later this year and plan to run my PC with a single 1080.
Zepp Twofist
Member
I would assume a tiny minority of VR owners are running dual cards.
Ok. Current screens are 9:10. Applying that to a 4K resolution you'd have 2160x2400 per eye which is about 10m pixels in total, vs 8.2m for a single 4K screen. That would give you double the resolution in each axis per eye for about 25% more pixels than a single 4K screen. I think that is an achievable target
There are several sites like VRFocus, RoadtoVR and UploadVR (I follow them on Twitter), but I think the best chance to keep up to date is to check the subreddits for Vive and Oculus.
achromicia
Member
Hi fellow Australians. HTC just pushed my order forward from the 15th of June to today! Hope everyone else got the same treatment.
cheezcake
Member
If you downgrade to the Oculus 1.3 runtime it apparently works
https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive/issues/138
To me, 4k means "the amount of pixels in a 4k screen", regardless of shape. 4k is a defined term and bandwidth requirements are massively different if you redefine 4k to mean 4000x4000.
I don't think it's at all common or obvious to assume when people say 4k in relation to vr they mean 4000 squared. It's like calling a current single screen 1080p because it has 1080 vertical lines.
DouglasteR
Member
And it will be in this year already (HTC). I cant wait.
Zalusithix
Member
Terms can refer to different things in different use cases. All the people I've seen talking about headset resolutions, especially in "next gen I want" terms are only talking about pixel density. Pure SDE/image quality stuff. Talking in TV standards in that use case generally makes no sense as that would be changing the aspect ratio and thus FoV resulting in very different pixel density results. A "2k" per eye display going by TV standards would have the same exact pixel density as the current gen if we maintained the vertical FoV and TV aspect ratio. It'd just have twice the horizontal FoV. Even if we're talking pure pixel counts, I can't believe people are reverse calculating what the actual pixel density increases are from 16:9 ratios when asking for "x"k. Like a ~50% increase in horizontal/vertical resolution for a "2k" 16:9 standard applied to the VR aspect ratio. Seems much more likely people are just multiplying the current density by an even factor.
Do you mean the possible gen2 reveal at E3?
Wowfunhappy
Member
Honestly I don't have any issues with the resolution. The thing they need to improve is pixel fill.
Zalusithix
Member
Resolution is a major issue for distant objects, text, and high frequency detail. Even with zero SDE, there would be problems with those things.
Personally I'd rather see peripheral vision improved before resolution or pixel fill. : ) For me that feels like it'd be the biggest single improvement to boost immersion.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Same here! Except, of course, that increasing peripheral vision WOULD necessitate an overall resolution increase in order to avoid lowering pixel density.
I know you're asking for something slightly different, but anyway, here's a VR aggregator for any type of VR site and content:
http://www.vrfavs.com/
Zalusithix
Member
Also requires better optics to actually make use of that increased FoV.
Nearly every issue with the headsets is linked in some form to another problem point, and there's a number of inherent technical hurdles to overcome for any one of them. Heck, with the pixel density issue alone, you're not only looking at bandwidth constraints as we go up due to resolution increases, but actual screen density challenges. Just doubling the current resolution per eye in a form factor that's no bigger than the current headsets requires a screen on the order of 900ppi - just barely within our grasp for consumer level gear at this point in time. Want a smaller headset or even greater density? Congrats, the requirements got even higher.
4k in the context of VR refers to 4k 16:9 screen on a single panel.
Why? Because it was used colloquially before the HMDs featured dual displays
So the new '4k' will be roughly around the sort of pixel density that 4k 16:9 screen would've provided users. Roughly quadruple what it is now. Not that hard!
People don't know what the actual next gen resolution (or whatever gen will be closest to that 4k 16:9 panel in terms of pixel density) will be. It could even be wider, providing a wider horizontal FOV - depending on advancements in optics, rendering and perhaps eye tracking. That's what happens when VR goes off the existing standards and creates its own standards without a long term road map like exists with traditional displays.
So for now, we only talk about next gen resolution using 4k as a short hand to reference that sort of approximate pixel density.
DouglasteR
Member
Unfortunatly no. I expect a fall reveal with (all over again) preorder in march, delivery april, june.
Also, HTC will split in two (VR and other goods) before it too.
Its not just pixel fill. Far away objects and distant things are really hard too see and more important, notice.
Thats why so many games are locked in things always nearly us. In the distance, only the horizon.
Elite Dangerous itself is being tremendously impacted by this.
You're lucky.. For those of us that enjoys racing simulators and flight simulators it's just not feasible right now - For other than short bursts of simple awe.. Everything in the distance is more or less like a pixel soup, and it's frustrating.
With that said, unfortunately resolution alone isn't enough, we also need more processing power, and better VR tech to reduce processing cost. We need good eye-tracking, foveated rendering. Not the least we need better optics to take advantage of foveated rendering. It appears to me that there lies a bigger challenge in increasing "the sweet spot" than expected. I kinda wouldn't even mind an even more ridiculous looking "hardcore" HMD to mitigate some of the compromises..
I think for high-end GPUs like the 1080, you could survive a 4k gen 2 HMD with just using multires shading to prioritise the existing centre sweetspot, then rolling in single pass stereo for reduced geometry overhead and simultaenous multiprojection to warp the viewport and reduce the pixels required to render.
Not a super affordable solution but doable if foveated rendering isn't practical yet?
This is what I'm hoping for by pre-ordering a 1080 GPU.. The gullible me is also hoping that developers are going to patch this into some of their existing titles..
qa_engineer
Member
Roadtovr.com and uploadvr.com are good sites to check out.
There is 0 support for SLI in VR games at the moment. It will probably change by gen 2
Zalusithix
Member
"Windows" existed as a transparent portal to the outside before it became an operating system. It can also refer to an individual portal to an application within any OS. Taking terms and redefining them to the context of an application is nothing new.
These are dual screen devices now running aspect ratios totally detached from the broadcast realm. "K" is simply a postfix that means thousand. Somebody could easily say they want a 6k display for their VR headset, hell a 13k one. Things that don't even exist as standards in the broadcast realm. Trying to apply broadcast standards to VR is a fool's errand. Using broadcast standards as reference point is already fudging numbers a bit. We're not dealing with exactly a 1080p HD screen combined resolution. It'll only get worse as the FoV gets wider in VR. Eventually neither the per eye or combined resolution in VR will have any bearing whatsoever to any broadcast standard. Sure, VR aspect ratios can and will change in the future. Context will have to update with it.
Also, the fact that people often use "per eye" in their explanations of what they want already divorces the context completely from the broadcast standards.
I think to avoid confusion we shouldn't use "k" at all. "4000x4000" or "16MP" would be much less ambiguous.
In any case, I don't see there being a gen 2 until 2018 at the earliest, and that's quite far away to predict anything accurately. 4000x4000 per eye seems ambitious even for 2 years, especially at 120hz. That's 13x the amount of physical pixels, 17x pixels per second, of current headsets. Assuming the cable technology exists, that's still going to be a big ask of HW even with foveated rendering and eye tracking. I wouldn't put money on the $350 GPUs of 2018 being able to handle that well. It may be possible to build a headset like that, but who could use it?
I wonder if we will start to see different levels of headsets. Maybe rift2/vive2 will have a low res and high res version.
Current vive is roughly a single 2k screen split in half. I think a single 4K screen split similarly would be 4x the pixels and twice the horizontal and vertical res per eye (roughly). That seems much more within reach than 4K per eye and would be probably 'enough' resolution to then start iterating other elements like field of view, sweet spot optics etc
DouglasteR
Member
Agreed, 2k per eye + enhanced optics are good enough for a gen 2.
Zalusithix
Member
Yeah, "k" is ambiguous, that much I can agree with. Using hard resolutions would be infinitely less so, but people are inclined to take shortcuts. *shrugs* Not that it really matters. This whole conversation has essentially become more semantics on terminology than anything. We've clarified the non-ambiguous hard numbers in a number of forms, so there's no real debate on that end.
Ultimately I do expect "tiers" of VR. Samsung makes more than one phone, TV, etc. Whether we'll see that in the second gen or have to wait further remains to be seen.
2k vertical resolution is pretty much a given IMO. The real question is how much horizontal resolution we'll get. How wide the FoV will be on the second gen.
Quick PSA
I highly recommend Vive owners to invest in stronger straps than the ones provided by HTC. Mine snapped when the controllers slipped from my hand while playing Holoball. I swung a bit too hard and the straps couldn't handle it.
Controller is still working fine, at least for now. There's a crack that goes across one of the side receptors though as a result of it hitting the wall pretty damn hard.
So I suggest either:
a. investing in some better straps.
b. applying padding to the walls to soften any blows.
So yeah, I don't know if straps failing and leading to controller physical damage is covered under warranty. I would like to get at least one spare controller though just in case, but I doubt parts are sold separately at this point.
I highly recommend Vive owners to invest in stronger straps than the ones provided by HTC. Mine snapped when the controllers slipped from my hand while playing Holoball. I swung a bit too hard and the straps couldn't handle it.
Controller is still working fine, at least for now. There's a crack that goes across one of the side receptors though as a result of it hitting the wall pretty damn hard.
So I suggest either:
a. investing in some better straps.
b. applying padding to the walls to soften any blows.
So yeah, I don't know if straps failing and leading to controller physical damage is covered under warranty. I would like to get at least one spare controller though just in case, but I doubt parts are sold separately at this point.
GuitarAtomik
Member
WOO! Cosmic Trip goes in to Early Access tomorrow! Going to have a lot of new VR stuff to play this week.
Finally. I had this on my wishlist since forever. Now let's see if it's as good as I hope.
Wowfunhappy
Member
So I couldn't figure out why Lucky's Tale was controlling so poorly. I finally realized it was because I was getting up and walking around the levels (because it was fun), and this was putting the thumb stick direction out of alignment.
*******
You should really complain to HTC. It should be covered under warranty, whatever their support says. It's not your fault the wrist straps didn't do their job.
*******
You should really complain to HTC. It should be covered under warranty, whatever their support says. It's not your fault the wrist straps didn't do their job.
So Tempted with it on sale now. Does seem a bit light on content as from the description there is not really a campaign and only 13 missions.
Can you compare how clean/clear the game looks in the HMD? How is performance.
I don't see that as a GPU processing problem. If they double the pixel dimensions they can render games at the same resolution used now and it will scale perfectly plus the SDE will be improved . Videos, photos, and less complex games can run at the higher resolution.
The technical challenge seems to be in the display, the data transfer, and production / file sizes on video.
Hello folks! I just made a post over on the Steam Community thread about the launch of our game, The Solus Project (which I've been helping with for about 9 months). It has has finally launched!
I'm letting you guys know because VR was built into the game in the last couple of months and we have started getting really positive feedback from some Vive players. If you guys fancy trying it, buy away... Or look below
Fair warning: The game is not 100% finished or 100% optimised for VR yet. It is still in-progress. However we feel it's safe to share it on a VR basis due to some of the feedback.
The game is a singleplayer wide-linear exploration adventure - with a bunch of survival and puzzle elements thrown in. You're alone on a deserted alien planet, and must scavenge for food and keep yourself warm while pressing ahead through a strange world, avoiding dangers when you can and uncovering secrets.
There's a big old sci-fi story which I had a big part in writing - but I'll let you discover that for yourself.
In a 'Premature Evaluation' of the game, Rock, Paper Shotgun published the clause: 'The Solus Project is absolutely incredible'. That quote may or may not be taken out of context.
Quote this post for two free Steam keys right below this message.
Taken
Taken
It would be beautiful if somebody could make an OT, I don't think it's even on the OT radar (and obviously I'm out).
Mods - if I've stepped out of line with this post, just let me know.
I'm letting you guys know because VR was built into the game in the last couple of months and we have started getting really positive feedback from some Vive players. If you guys fancy trying it, buy away... Or look below
Fair warning: The game is not 100% finished or 100% optimised for VR yet. It is still in-progress. However we feel it's safe to share it on a VR basis due to some of the feedback.
The game is a singleplayer wide-linear exploration adventure - with a bunch of survival and puzzle elements thrown in. You're alone on a deserted alien planet, and must scavenge for food and keep yourself warm while pressing ahead through a strange world, avoiding dangers when you can and uncovering secrets.
There's a big old sci-fi story which I had a big part in writing - but I'll let you discover that for yourself.
In a 'Premature Evaluation' of the game, Rock, Paper Shotgun published the clause: 'The Solus Project is absolutely incredible'. That quote may or may not be taken out of context.
(Lucky for us it
is not.)
Quote this post for two free Steam keys right below this message.
Taken
Taken
It would be beautiful if somebody could make an OT, I don't think it's even on the OT radar (and obviously I'm out).
Mods - if I've stepped out of line with this post, just let me know.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Hello folks! I just made a post over on the Steam Community thread about the launch of our game, The Solus Project (which I've been helping with for about 9 months). It has has finally launched!
I'm letting you guys know because VR was built into the game in the last couple of months and we have started getting really positive feedback from some Vive players. If you guys fancy trying it, buy away... Or look below
Fair warning: The game is not 100% finished or 100% optimised for VR yet. It is still in-progress. However we feel it's safe to share it on a VR basis due to some of the feedback.
The game is a singleplayer wide-linear exploration adventure - with a bunch of survival and puzzle elements thrown in. You're alone on a deserted alien planet, and must scavenge for food and keep yourself warm while pressing ahead through a strange world, avoiding dangers when you can and uncovering secrets.
There's a big old sci-fi story which I had a big part in writing - but I'll let you discover that for yourself.
In a 'Premature Evaluation' of the game, Rock, Paper Shotgun published the clause: 'The Solus Project is absolutely incredible'. That quote may or may not be taken out of context.(Lucky for us itis not.)
Quote this post for two free Steam keys right below this message.
It would be beautiful if somebody could make an OT, I don't think it's even on the OT radar (and obviously I'm out).
Mods - if I've stepped out of line with this post, just let me know.
Thanks man. I grabbed the second one. My Oculus wont arrive till beginning of July, but I will play a bit of the Non-VR version before that.
Grats again (like in the Steam thread) on launching!
Judging by the Steam Reviews though it seems the VR integration seems really great already.
NP - enjoy! It's an atmospheric game, I really hope it's killer on VR.
Grabbed the other code. Thanks a lot dude. Will definitely try it out and provide feedback.Hello folks! I just made a post over on the Steam Community thread about the launch of our game, The Solus Project (which I've been helping with for about 9 months). It has has finally launched!
I'm letting you guys know because VR was built into the game in the last couple of months and we have started getting really positive feedback from some Vive players. If you guys fancy trying it, buy away... Or look below
Fair warning: The game is not 100% finished or 100% optimised for VR yet. It is still in-progress. However we feel it's safe to share it on a VR basis due to some of the feedback.
The game is a singleplayer wide-linear exploration adventure - with a bunch of survival and puzzle elements thrown in. You're alone on a deserted alien planet, and must scavenge for food and keep yourself warm while pressing ahead through a strange world, avoiding dangers when you can and uncovering secrets.
There's a big old sci-fi story which I had a big part in writing - but I'll let you discover that for yourself.
In a 'Premature Evaluation' of the game, Rock, Paper Shotgun published the clause: 'The Solus Project is absolutely incredible'. That quote may or may not be taken out of context.(Lucky for us itis not.)
Quote this post for two free Steam keys right below this message.
It would be beautiful if somebody could make an OT, I don't think it's even on the OT radar (and obviously I'm out).
Mods - if I've stepped out of line with this post, just let me know.
New hmds will certainly have increased fov so up scaling existing games won't work that way. If a 4000x4000 x2 hmd comes out, it's going to have software that takes advantage of it. SDE reduction alone wouldn't be worth it.
Tumle
Member
I'll try my luck.. Maybe I'm lucky it's still there when I get home.. But either way looks like a fun gameHello folks! I just made a post over on the Steam Community thread about the launch of our game, The Solus Project (which I've been helping with for about 9 months). It has has finally launched!
I'm letting you guys know because VR was built into the game in the last couple of months and we have started getting really positive feedback from some Vive players. If you guys fancy trying it, buy away... Or look below
Fair warning: The game is not 100% finished or 100% optimised for VR yet. It is still in-progress. However we feel it's safe to share it on a VR basis due to some of the feedback.
The game is a singleplayer wide-linear exploration adventure - with a bunch of survival and puzzle elements thrown in. You're alone on a deserted alien planet, and must scavenge for food and keep yourself warm while pressing ahead through a strange world, avoiding dangers when you can and uncovering secrets.
There's a big old sci-fi story which I had a big part in writing - but I'll let you discover that for yourself.
In a 'Premature Evaluation' of the game, Rock, Paper Shotgun published the clause: 'The Solus Project is absolutely incredible'. That quote may or may not be taken out of context.(Lucky for us itis not.)
Quote this post for two free Steam keys right below this message.
It would be beautiful if somebody could make an OT, I don't think it's even on the OT radar (and obviously I'm out).
Mods - if I've stepped out of line with this post, just let me know.
Edit: dammit to late!!
Well i guess I need to cash out then
GuitarAtomik
Member
Been on my wish list for a while now. Just wanted to wait for the VR implementation to be solid. About how much further does the Vive implementation have to go? Or is it at good enough point now for a playthrough?
EDIT: I know this has some connection with The Ball (which I already own but haven't played yet lol). Would you recommend playing that first (like because of theoretical story or lore hooks), or does it not really matter which order you play them? Or am I totally making up that connection lol?
Funnily enough, the director's Facebook post about the game's launch says it's really solid on VR.
His verbatim line is:
Sounds pretty dang promising, but remember this is no guarantee!
The director is a worldwide Unreal expert and I saw some chat about him really squeezing juice out of the engine for VR.
RE The Ball - The Ball is a good game and worth playing. The connection is in the backstory, but the events of each game don't tie together directly.
There might be a couple of extra 'oh cool' moments which you'd only get if you play The Ball.
I'll try my luck.. Maybe I'm lucky it's still there when I get home.. But either way looks like a fun game
Edit: dammit to late!!
Well i guess I need to cash out then
Sorry you missed it man!
Tumle
Member
Hello folks! I just made a post over on the Steam Community thread about the launch of our game, The Solus Project (which I've been helping with for about 9 months). It has has finally launched!
I'm letting you guys know because VR was built into the game in the last couple of months and we have started getting really positive feedback from some Vive players. If you guys fancy trying it, buy away... Or look below
Fair warning: The game is not 100% finished or 100% optimised for VR yet. It is still in-progress. However we feel it's safe to share it on a VR basis due to some of the feedback.
The game is a singleplayer wide-linear exploration adventure - with a bunch of survival and puzzle elements thrown in. You're alone on a deserted alien planet, and must scavenge for food and keep yourself warm while pressing ahead through a strange world, avoiding dangers when you can and uncovering secrets.
There's a big old sci-fi story which I had a big part in writing - but I'll let you discover that for yourself.
In a 'Premature Evaluation' of the game, Rock, Paper Shotgun published the clause: 'The Solus Project is absolutely incredible'. That quote may or may not be taken out of context.(Lucky for us itis not.)
Quote this post for two free Steam keys right below this message.
Taken
Taken
It would be beautiful if somebody could make an OT, I don't think it's even on the OT radar (and obviously I'm out).
Mods - if I've stepped out of line with this post, just let me know.
Wow, this seems like it should be one of the first deep FPS games native to VR. Bought.
IMACOMPUTA
Member
Got my replacement headset from HTC for the broken wireless receiver from faulty firmware update.
Updated the firmware on this one without issue and bought House of the Dying Sun.
It's great. Looks really good in the vive, too.
Updated the firmware on this one without issue and bought House of the Dying Sun.
It's great. Looks really good in the vive, too.
- Status