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HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck

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SomTervo

Member
Hey, a VR developer! I have your game but I haven't played it just yet!

I have a question for you, kinda. When I was playing The Gallery: Call of the Starseed, I actually spent some time playing it sitting down, because I'd played a lot of VR games that day and was getting tired. It was mostly possible because of the way they let you rotate your view when you warped. But then I realized the game was obviously developed with the intent of being played standing, I'd be at eye height to tables and half submerged in water and such. And then I thought, I'm sure some kids' heads would probably be at the height mine was at when sitting.

My question is this: have you thought about/played around with the idea of scaling the world based on the player's height, or some sort of internal height option? I dunno, maybe this is something that all VR devs have already dealt with, I was just curious about developments on that front, and how hard it would be. People of a variety of heights are going to be playing these games, including children and little people, and you can't just raise the head height up because then their feet aren't on the floor, so I assume you'd probably have to scale everything.

And beyond that, picturing a multiplayer game that tries to be fair, for example a shooter with cover that is the perfect size for crouching behind...some people would be too big and others too small. A height slider that scales the world might be an interesting way to keep everyone on the same level, or even allow for some new perspectives if someone wanted to mess with it and make themselves short.

I'm actually not involved in programming or design (yet) - I work on multimedia content creation, e.g. scriptwriting and voice acting management/direction. Do a lot of QA, feedback and work in-engine a little, though.

However, I know a couple of things about this:

1. Many games do calibrate to height on first boot up and have an option to do so. Not all, though, it's an extra.

2. With the Vive, the documentation you get when you first open it says that young children shouldn't play it. On the one hand, it probably won't be comfortable for them - the HMD being pretty heavy and made for an adult skull. On the other, there are concerns about virtual reality messing with the brain's optic nerve-to-inner ear programming.

Kids 12 or over should be okay, though, and the sense of scale/place is so realistic that they will probably just feel like they're at a realistic height. Challenges might arise from objects in the world being too high up, e.g. on shelves.
 
Ah that's interesting. Hmm. Reminds me a little of the fears surrounding 3D usage on the 3DS for children, though. But I think that one was outright countered by optometrists who said it actually might be good for them.

But thanks, I was curious about how these games tend to work with different heights.
 

SomTervo

Member
Ah that's interesting. Hmm. Reminds me a little of the fears surrounding 3D usage on the 3DS for children, though. But I think that one was outright countered by optometrists who said it actually might be good for them.

But thanks, I was curious about how these games tend to work with different heights.

VR is definitely a different ballgame from the 3DS. It 100% fools the optic nerve, that's why it's so powerful. Remember that motion sickness arises from your vision moving while your inner ear detects nothing. We only get motion sickness because we've spent decades learning to match what we see with what our inner ear fluids detect. So imagine, hypothetically, that a kid got used to playing a VR game with a joypad - the image moving and the inner ear detecting no motion - and imagine if their brain reprogrammed itself to detach the optic nerve's signals from the inner ear's signals. It could really ruin the kid's sensory perception, possibly inducing chronic vertigo, etc.

That's a gross oversimplification, but it's the sort of fear which exists currently.

Yeah no worries about the question - you have to remember that this is absolutely a frontier. Hundreds of developers are breaking new ground, working out new ways of doing things, new rules; boldly going where no-one has gone before. Adjusting for various heights is absolutely a valid concern, especially with a static floor height. I can imagine 5-10 years from now, when best practices for VR have been established, that developers will have to add settings for calibrating height.
 

collige

Banned
So I tried Raw Data for the first time yesterday and I'm a bit mixed on it. On the plus side, it's the most fleshed out and well designed VR game I've played yet, but the gunplay itself is weak. I dunno if it's because of the inverse kinematics or if I'm dropping frames or something, but the VR hands are definitely lagging behind the actual controller locations. Switching over to Brookhaven was just a night and day difference.
 
So I tried Raw Data for the first time yesterday and I'm a bit mixed on it. On the plus side, it's the most fleshed out and well designed VR game I've played yet, but the gunplay itself is weak. I dunno if it's because of the inverse kinematics or if I'm dropping frames or something, but the VR hands are definitely lagging behind the actual controller locations. Switching over to Brookhaven was just a night and day difference.
it looked to me like there was an almost intentional lag between the in game hands and the controller, like they were trying to nerf the ability to flail around with the sword.

idk, id be curious to see if it was actually just something going wrong with my setup
 
So I tried Raw Data for the first time yesterday and I'm a bit mixed on it. On the plus side, it's the most fleshed out and well designed VR game I've played yet, but the gunplay itself is weak. I dunno if it's because of the inverse kinematics or if I'm dropping frames or something, but the VR hands are definitely lagging behind the actual controller locations. Switching over to Brookhaven was just a night and day difference.

There's definitely no manifest lag in Raw Data.

The game is prone to losing frames and behaving strangely, that could explain it (I've had sessions where it was flawless and others where I was struggling to understand why it was performing so poorly on a 980ti).

Forearms motion though appear somewhat strange anyway.
 

Enordash

Member
Some Raw Data questions and thoughts for people:

Do the yellow attack bots ever actually attack anything? They run up and then just stand there for me. With Bishop, you can just pick them off easily. It seems like they actively back away from you though so it's annoying with Saija.

It's really no fun trying to swat down the drones with Saija. It seems like they may have slightly improved the throw, but it still feels wonky 9 times out of 10.

The game kinda breaks down for me when things get too hectic. I've played the first mission over and over because it's a lot of fun. The third mission becomes super crazy way too fast. Again, it feels like the game is balanced around Bishop and using the sword becomes a huge pain. You are forced to rely on the sword throw way way too much.

I hope there's eventually a way to get rid of a lot of the jankiness. The game doesn't run so hot even with a 1070. When everything is working properly, it's probably my favorite VR game right now, but there are games that work way better way more often that are also early like Budget Cuts.
 

Starviper

Member
4zSW16R.png

30+ days on your Lighthouse repair.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Looking to sell mine, if any uk gaffers are interested. Got a new job with an evil commute so have no time to game let alone do VR. Going to jump out for a while and back in if/when my free time gets better. Looking for £600 - posted in the BST thread but it doesn't get many uk/eu buyers
 

Akronis

Member
So I tried Raw Data for the first time yesterday and I'm a bit mixed on it. On the plus side, it's the most fleshed out and well designed VR game I've played yet, but the gunplay itself is weak. I dunno if it's because of the inverse kinematics or if I'm dropping frames or something, but the VR hands are definitely lagging behind the actual controller locations. Switching over to Brookhaven was just a night and day difference.

AFAIK controller latency is usually caused by reprojection when the game can't maintain a solid 90fps.
 

Buzzbrad

Member
Whenever I am playing a game in VR the Vive will go all black, then when I take it off steam has crashed all together and I need to re-open it. This happens regardless of whether it is a steam game, or a re-vive game. After about 30 minutes Steam will just close with no warning at all and the headset goes all black. I have tried reinstalling drivers, reinstalling SteamVR and reinstalling the USB drivers. Nothing has worked. This is very frustrating as I lose all my progress in game and need to keep re-opening steam and launching the game.

Any fixes would be greatly appreciated!
 

pj

Banned
Whenever I am playing a game in VR the Vive will go all black, then when I take it off steam has crashed all together and I need to re-open it. This happens regardless of whether it is a steam game, or a re-vive game. After about 30 minutes Steam will just close with no warning at all and the headset goes all black. I have tried reinstalling drivers, reinstalling SteamVR and reinstalling the USB drivers. Nothing has worked. This is very frustrating as I lose all my progress in game and need to keep re-opening steam and launching the game.

Any fixes would be greatly appreciated!

All of steam or just steamvr? Is your GPU overclocked?
 
Raw Data 0.2 update is live!

New Content / Functionality

  • Bishop: New Hero Ability - Fusion Charged Shot. Players must steal the technology from Eden Corp and purchase it from the Hero selection screen.
  • Saija: New Hero Ability - Telekinesis. Players must steal the technology from Eden Corp and purchase it from the Hero selection screen.
  • Ninja Bot: New Enemy Ability - Stealth. Will allow him to sneak up on players more easily.
  • Dark Source: Flashlight functionality has been added. Automatically activates at mission start on Bishop’s pistol and Saija’s Flash Blade.
  • Added volume and mute controls for voice chat in the in-game options menu.
  • Game Start sequences can now be skipped through with button input allowing players to get to the Showroom quicker. (Skip functionality is disabled for first-time game startup.)

H2LG7Ps.gif

Saija Telekinesis

Z5wdjbY.gif

Fusion Shot + Time Warp

Gameplay Improvements / Balance

  • Dark Source mission difficulty has been slightly reduced.
  • Data Core health has been slightly increased.
  • Teleshift now maintains player embodiment during movement, allowing players to melee attack/slice through enemies while Teleshifting.
  • A buffer zone around enemies has been added to help prevent Teleshifting too close.
  • Teleshifting is now limited with a stamina system to improve game balance.
  • Decreased pistol reloading distance and increased speed of reload animation. The reload animation can also now be interrupted by moving your hand away during the sequence.
  • Improved crawler vomit VFX to increase player awareness. Also decreased the time before the Crawler vomits on the player.
  • Updated VFX for Saija’s Flash Blade, including trails.
  • Improved Flash Blade hit reactions by making them bigger and more responsive to help with player feedback.
  • Improved pistol fire SFX.
  • Improved Bulletstorm VFX.
  • New fade-out material on view model of player avatar arms added.
  • Revamped ability cooldown/energy indicator UI. Gravity Thrust and Shurikens have temporary energy meters that are only visible on hand when triggering ability. Special Ability button UI now also has cooldown meters integrated.
  • Ability popup in the main menu now has information about controls and a link to the controls page.
  • Main menu now displays current number of players online.

Fixes

  • Fixed an issue that was preventing all open games from displaying in the multiplayer game search UI based on geographic proximity.
  • Fix implemented to prevent accidental pistol and ammo clip swapping.
  • Fixed an issue where the Crawler enemy was not always aligning properly to the front of the player.
 

pj

Banned
All of steam and my GPU isn't overclocked no.

Weird. Try steam beta and steamvr beta if you're not on them, go back to normal if you already are. Not sure what else it could be. Maybe try posting on the steamvr community forum on steam
 

Thadeousc

Member
OK,

I have a VIVE, but I work a ton, I only have a few hours a week to play. 3-4 max on a good week. Given that I have so little time I really want to stick to some great experiences, what should I be looking at?
 

Enordash

Member

Thanks, GuitarAtomik, for all the Raw Data info. I'm looking forward to getting back in there and trying it out. I was actually thinking about the teleshift buffer thing yesterday. They seem to be on top of things.

Other than Budget Cuts and VR Funhouse, are there any free demos worth trying out?
 

Durante

Member
Yup, this. Lots of reports of that game dropping frames with even the best cards.
The major reason for inexplicable framedrops was already fixed though.

Now it's just a really demanding game. On my 1080 I can only run 1.1 RT and a mixture of medium and epic settings if I want to maintain 90 FPS without reprojection all the time.
 

Durante

Member
Well, I think that option is essential, a friend and I are always using Mumble and previously had to do some fairly ridiculous gymnastics (rerouting the game to the wrong audio input device) to prevent double audio (fast and in good quality with Mumble, slightly delayed and with worse quality in-game :p).
 
Thanks, GuitarAtomik, for all the Raw Data info. I'm looking forward to getting back in there and trying it out. I was actually thinking about the teleshift buffer thing yesterday. They seem to be on top of things.

Other than Budget Cuts and VR Funhouse, are there any free demos worth trying out?

No prob! Other free demos worth checking out:

QuiVR <---I highly recommend
CyberPong VR
Dimensional

EDIT:

Also apparently the DOTA VR viewer thing is live now.

VR Hub FAQ
 

Durante

Member
I just did a VR demo for the first time in a while to people who had never tried it before (my sister and her boyfriend), and there are 2 people at Valve who should get a raise:
  • Whoever implemented the dog in The Lab
  • Whoever implemented Longbow
Those two are so compelling that I rarely ever get any farther in my demonstration schedule :p
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I just did a VR demo for the first time in a while to people who had never tried it before (my sister and her boyfriend), and there are 2 people at Valve who should get a raise:
  • Whoever implemented the dog in The Lab
  • Whoever implemented Longbow
Those two are so compelling that I rarely ever get any farther in my demonstration schedule :p

Also whoever implemented being able to shoot the dog with the longbow and have it play dead
 

Tadie

Member
Okay Rec Room VR is the best Vive Game out there. And it's free......

I have so much fun. I played Dodge Ball with a japanese girl and two US dudes .

What an epic experience!
 

Onemic

Member
How good is Universe Sandbox? Is it a simulator like space simulator with the added ability to manipulate and play with objects or just a pure fuck around and create/play with planets/stars thing?
 

collige

Banned
There's definitely no manifest lag in Raw Data.

The game is prone to losing frames and behaving strangely, that could explain it (I've had sessions where it was flawless and others where I was struggling to understand why it was performing so poorly on a 980ti).

Forearms motion though appear somewhat strange anyway.
After trying it more with lower settings I'm confident I'm saying it's an issue with the game. Even when I'm standing still at the main menu with no frame drops, there's obvious delay for any movement, no matter how fast. If you bring up the Steam overlay that shows the detected controller locations, it takes about half a second for your hands to catch up to the controller after you stop moving.
 

collige

Banned
Well, I think that option is essential, a friend and I are always using Mumble and previously had to do some fairly ridiculous gymnastics (rerouting the game to the wrong audio input device) to prevent double audio (fast and in good quality with Mumble, slightly delayed and with worse quality in-game :p).

Speaking of Mumble, do you know if there's a way to have the Vive controllers be recognized as an input device? Having to use voice activity instead of push to talk sucks when I'm walking around my room.
 
Ok. It's been 4 months and I'm still enraptured with VR gaming.
I struggle to play normal gaming with any where near the sort of enthusiasm I used to.
VR is here to stay.
All I need is photo realistic in VR project cars (man , that's a long way off!) and I will never leave the house again!
 
Is Raw Data worth getting?
Short answer: yes
Long answer: if you are happy to join an early access game with some bugs and glitches and you can forgive it for this...then yes. It is co-op heaven. If the idea of co-op fills you with dread then do not buy, as this is where all the fun is(and quite frankly the game is impossible on your own!).Personally, of all the wave shooters, this is the most polished and fun.
 
After trying it more with lower settings I'm confident I'm saying it's an issue with the game. Even when I'm standing still at the main menu with no frame drops, there's obvious delay for any movement, no matter how fast. If you bring up the Steam overlay that shows the detected controller locations, it takes about half a second for your hands to catch up to the controller after you stop moving.

what hardware are you running? i think you're seeing reprojection, which makes things feel less responsive along with the controllers catching up issue you describe. even my 1080 resorts to it on higher settings with supersampling &#8212; but turning a few things down gets rid of the lag entirely.

it's not a linear improvement in performance, it's more like an on/off switch for 1:1 movement once you get past a certain threshold. either it'll be responsive or it won't. so it's an issue with the game to the extent that it's just a very demanding game that could probably be optimised a bit more, but it's not like it's universally laggy.
 
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