TharpDaddy
Member
So is it just a matter of the tracking? Once full body tracking is a thing you'd be fine with it, but prefer only hands until then?
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HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck
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So is it just a matter of the tracking? Once full body tracking is a thing you'd be fine with it, but prefer only hands until then?
Hmm, I see it immediately. Play a round of Raw Data in one of the darker levels, and look at transitions from black to some other shade when you move your head.
Zalusithix
Member
It's definitely a tracking thing. Just watching a mere forearm twist in a way that my own isn't will break immersion if I'm paying any attention to it. Once we can get the entire body accurately tracked, having it in game will be fine. Stuff like Mirrors Edge will remain a challenge though. My body would quite obviously not be making movements like those used in that game.
Beyond that, the more accurately we're represented in VR, the more the discrepancy between VR and RL manifests itself. How do you deal with standing on uneven terrain in VR, but in a flat room in RL? Accurate tracking would have your body phasing through the world. Make the body make sense in VR and it detaches from your RL perception of where your limbs are. This isn't like our hands where we can make a conscious decision to not try and push through virtual objects.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Yeah, if the positioning is right I'm sure I'd be fine with it. But I'd much rather have no body than an incorrect one.
TharpDaddy
Member
Those are interesting points. It would be very disorienting to feel like you should shift your weight due to being on an incline, but doing so would make you fall over. I imagine that level design will have to adapt to make sure that you rarely are in a position where uneven terrain is a factor, but that seems like it could be very limiting. A game like Skyrim with hilly and mountainous terrain would be very difficult to pull off in VR for example. I'm very interested in seeing how people smarter than me solve these issues. We just need to get to the point where we can jack our minds into the computer and be inside the game.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Well, I'm sure I could see it if I purposefully looked for it.
I don't want to though for obvious reasons.I think there are certain scenarios that will never make sense in VR. Standing on uneven terrain is one activity that won't work well unless/until we can build specialized rooms or something. That's just as true as it will be in the future.
(I know I just said I really wanted to play Mirror's Edge in VR, but that's a curiosity, not something I think would make tons of sense for everyone).
moniker
Member
Well, I'm sure I could see it if I purposefully looked for it.
There's no problem having several different versions of SteamVR side by side? If for example I only want to use the old build for some stuff, I can still continue to use the most up to date version if I want?
Wowfunhappy
Member
There shouldn't be. The copy I posted contains a bat file you can use to start that version of SteamVR. So whenever you want perfect blacks, you just:
1) Close normal Steam VR, if applicable
2) Start my version with the bat file
3) Close SteamVR again when you're done.
If SteamVR isn't running when you start a game, games should continue to open the normal copy automatically. I'm hedging my language a bit because (afaik) this has only been confirmed to work for myself and kinggroin. There's also a mechanism at play that I don't actually understand—if SteamVR isn't running, and two versions exist on a computer, how does the software choose which one to start? For me, the official/latest copy is always the one that opens, but I don't know why.
TharpDaddy
Member
I end up not doing it much since I find it kinda awkward, but the best way I found was put the lower end of one controller into the circle of the other controller to brace it.
I don't really hold them next to each other, more "stacked" -- and in fact, they don't need to be all that close.
It adds "tons of extra damage" according to the only official source I've found. Personally, I use it to fight large enemies (the orange melee robots, rocket guys and the large buts generated in Nuke Fusion).
Sadly, I don't have to look for it to see it :/Well, I'm sure I could see it if I purposefully looked for it.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Grab the handle with your empty hand (usually the grip button). It does more damage, and I think it reflects shots back faster/more accurately.
moniker
Member
Thanks! Trying this out later today.
Auto-Reply
Member
The freedom locomotion system works very well, I don't even get that loss of balance that sometimes occurs for a split second when I move suddenly from standing still or the other way around.
There is also more content in that demo than I expected, haven't seen everything yet. Climbed the Robot, got the gun (running and aiming/shooting works surprisingly good too) and ran down the street in the small town.
There is also more content in that demo than I expected, haven't seen everything yet. Climbed the Robot, got the gun (running and aiming/shooting works surprisingly good too) and ran down the street in the small town.
Good. I'm still not sure just how serious Oculus is about this.
digitalrelic
Banned
Hey guys,
Do you think it'd be wise for me to purchase a Vive in the near future? Like the next month or two? Or should I wait?
I'd hate to make a purchase only for a big price drop or the announcement of Vive 2 to happen shortly after.
Do you think it'd be wise for me to purchase a Vive in the near future? Like the next month or two? Or should I wait?
I'd hate to make a purchase only for a big price drop or the announcement of Vive 2 to happen shortly after.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
I would look for one of those $100 off deals that have been popping up. Other than that, I don't expect an official price drop and definitely no Vive 2 in the near future.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Tilt Brush Toolkit getting released today.
VIDEO
Pretty damn cool.
Today, we're introducing the Tilt Brush Toolkit, an open source library for bringing your Tilt Brush art to other creative projects. With the toolkit, the next generation of artists can create narrative, interactive, and immersive content using Tilt Brush sketches.
The Tilt Brush Toolkit includes Python scripts and a Unity SDK with everything you need to make movies, interactive stories, video games, music videos, or other projects using assets created in Tilt Brush. Were sharing all of our brush shaders, our audio reactive code, a streamlined Unity import pipeline, file format conversion utilities, and several great examples so hobbyists and professionals can showcase their Tilt Brush art in new places, on new platforms, and in new ways.
VIDEO
Pretty damn cool.
I just finished playing Serious Sam TFE (as in, completing the campaign). Played the entire thing in coop with a friend, took ~7.5 hours.
If you can handle fast (blink or not, depending on preferences) locomotion I'd say it's one of the best complete gaming experiences in VR, easily. It's fast, it's frenetic, it's fun. Fabulous, really.
If you can handle fast (blink or not, depending on preferences) locomotion I'd say it's one of the best complete gaming experiences in VR, easily. It's fast, it's frenetic, it's fun. Fabulous, really.
Soooo I've been working a bit with Outer Brain Studios, the devs behind Organ Quarter.
I barely had a hand in this, but we just pushed an update to the pre-alpha demo you can download from Steam for free.
- new enemies
- new enemy positions
- new behaviours, animations and reactions
- a bunch of bug fixes and performance tweaks
- a bit of balancing
- still a short proof of concept demo
Creepy new screenshot:
We're looking into other locomotion methods but they'll probably be included in the full/final release rather than the demo. So the demo is probably going to keep teleport/analog. We're considering arm swing (ala Climbey), Freedom, dash-step, etc. But it's a tough decision, especially in a horror experience where it's easy to break immersion/scare factor.
Also the full game will be much larger/longer. Hopefully longer than stuff like Arizona Sunshine. Think similar length to Resident Evil 1 (like 4-6 hours), which are big inspirations.
Played this for a good while earlier today. Legit blew my mind.
Dash-step is brilliant and I even found Freedom brilliant. Only suggestion would be they need to emphasise raising your knees more. Often, for me, speed equated to how high i raised my knees and how frequently. Really got used to it fast.
I was going to go for a short run this afternoon but after playing with the Freedom demo for a while and jogging the entire 'mountain path' level... I didn't need to.
What the fuck.
I barely had a hand in this, but we just pushed an update to the pre-alpha demo you can download from Steam for free.
- new enemies
- new enemy positions
- new behaviours, animations and reactions
- a bunch of bug fixes and performance tweaks
- a bit of balancing
- still a short proof of concept demo
Creepy new screenshot:
We're looking into other locomotion methods but they'll probably be included in the full/final release rather than the demo. So the demo is probably going to keep teleport/analog. We're considering arm swing (ala Climbey), Freedom, dash-step, etc. But it's a tough decision, especially in a horror experience where it's easy to break immersion/scare factor.
Also the full game will be much larger/longer. Hopefully longer than stuff like Arizona Sunshine. Think similar length to Resident Evil 1 (like 4-6 hours), which are big inspirations.
Played this for a good while earlier today. Legit blew my mind.
Dash-step is brilliant and I even found Freedom brilliant. Only suggestion would be they need to emphasise raising your knees more. Often, for me, speed equated to how high i raised my knees and how frequently. Really got used to it fast.
I was going to go for a short run this afternoon but after playing with the Freedom demo for a while and jogging the entire 'mountain path' level... I didn't need to.
What the fuck.
TharpDaddy
Member
Holy shit, that's awesome.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
https://www.vive.com/tw/forum/1402
So there's a Taipei Game Show going on right now, and HTC showcased a bunch of stuffs for the Vive
They showcased front Defense and Arcade Saga)
They also showcased the Vive Tracker with a game developed by Capcom...it is a kaiju smashing game where you play as a monster trying to rescue your offspring from the human. The title is "Capdom"
The game itself isnt new as it is available for play in Japan Capcom Arcade, but now they are bringing it out of Japan for the first time to Taipei Game Show. Capcom did it previously with vive controllers attached to shoes. Now they attached the vive tracker to the shoes instead.
Here's how it is done previously
Trailer of the capdom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7xNN30xmHs
Also another demo "Metal Assault"
Also Squre Enix's Kai-Ri-Sei Million Arthur VR
And some titles here and there like Project Cars
So there's a Taipei Game Show going on right now, and HTC showcased a bunch of stuffs for the Vive
They showcased front Defense and Arcade Saga)
They also showcased the Vive Tracker with a game developed by Capcom...it is a kaiju smashing game where you play as a monster trying to rescue your offspring from the human. The title is "Capdom"
The game itself isnt new as it is available for play in Japan Capcom Arcade, but now they are bringing it out of Japan for the first time to Taipei Game Show. Capcom did it previously with vive controllers attached to shoes. Now they attached the vive tracker to the shoes instead.
Here's how it is done previously
Trailer of the capdom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7xNN30xmHs
Also another demo "Metal Assault"
Also Squre Enix's Kai-Ri-Sei Million Arthur VR
And some titles here and there like Project Cars
mysocksarepink
Banned
Everyone else is seeing teddy bear heads in those trackers right?
Now I am ya jerk
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=676168782562296&id=495923607253482
Hey they did a live stream of the event earlier and introduced some of the titles like million arthur vr amd Capdom
Hey they did a live stream of the event earlier and introduced some of the titles like million arthur vr amd Capdom
Everyone else is seeing teddy bear heads in those trackers right?
All I see is a pig face.
Zalusithix
Member
It's kind of strange seeing the Vive being used in motion sim rigs as the Rift has become the standard for those.
It's actually one of the few cases where the camera based Rift tracking is the objectively better choice. You can mount the tracking camera to the rig itself so detected motion is always relative to the rig itself instead of the world around it. With the Vive you have to compensate for the rig's movements to calculate the true position in the VR world. The compensation could get pretty absurd with something like the the MMOne. For this reason alone, I think pure camera based solutions have a future so long as the lighthouse tracking relies on delicate parts spinning in extremely precise ways.
Melon Husk
Member
I saw the bears as well.
Yep, two points isn't enough for full body IK.
4 seems much, much better:
https://twitter.com/gameism/status/822231253403443202/video/1
We need VR socks.
Yep, two points isn't enough for full body IK.
4 seems much, much better:
https://twitter.com/gameism/status/822231253403443202/video/1
We need VR socks.
With the VR trackers this will be the future. If there are available, i will take three and just need ways and software, to put then on the torso and feet.
This would not only allow for great VR bodies (just missing wrist trackers for perfect arm tracking), but also great "walk-on-place"-locomotion. With the torso tracking you get always the right direction and with the feet tracking, we should get all steps and speed right. The Freedom Locomotion demo really showed me, how important this is. The maze made me fill uneasy, since i could feel the mismatch too good. Also very often me controlling the direction with the pad and my perception of the direction made me lose balance for a moment. And very annoying was always overshooting the signs, since small movement wouldn't be registered sometimes and than you were moving too fast (also the demo needs to take in account the play-space. If a wall hits the play-space, you shouldn't be able too move more into it, the last view steps should be made in real-life).
The VR trackers are very important for the future of VR.
I also want a space simulator, where you have to put the tracker on your table and chair. Then if you want to change configurations or repair damage, you have to move around to different consoles in the VR-Room. The trackers help you to not bump your body into those pieces of furniture.
MiamiWesker
Member
I loved the organ quarter demo! Can't wait to try the update.
Good to hear! Hope you enjoy the update. It has certainly tightened a few bolts and filled in a couple of cracks.
Haemi
Member
I think the vives tracking is still better for this situation. you have to move the car model but not the players view. => What you feel is what you see.
Putting the camera on the rig would make it necessary to simulate the rigs movement not only for the car but also for the players view.
Zalusithix
Member
No, with the camera on the rig, all detected player movement is cockpit (seat) relative - which is exactly what you want. You're moving within the cockpit, not within the world itself. With an external camera the seat and player are both moving in coordinate space, and the movement of the seat is in not directly connected with what is happening in VR. The seat moves to exert force on the player via gravity - not match the real life cockpit movements. Watch this to get an idea of how the seat movements don't match the real life car movement.
Zalusithix
Member
Put a Vive tracker on the rig.
Wouldn't even need it from a purely technical standpoint if your goal is just to get the Vive to work. The mechanical movements are a known quantity. You can infer where the HMD should be in a neutral pose at any point in time by knowing where the rig is at that point, and then use the offset of where it should be to where it is as your true location. Putting a tracker on the rig just makes it easier since you don't need to know anything about it beforehand.
That's still far more hackish than the camera on the rig route though. There you don't need to do any offset calculations and subsequent modification of what gets reported to the game. It just works out of the box and is immune to being obscured by the movements of even crazy advanced motion rigs.
The lighthouse solution is elegant in what it does for roomscale. The camera solution is elegant for what it does in sim rigs. Both can be used in either situation, but one is the better choice.
Does Rift work out of the box? It handles conflicting tracking data from the IMU's well?
Zalusithix
Member
You know, I'll grant you that. I didn't give much thought to the IMU sensor fusion conflict, since I was looking at it purely from an absolute tracking standpoint. I mean, the camera will constantly correct the errant IMU data regardless, but I'm not sure what the end result would be as a viewer. Seeing as how multiple manufacturers have used the Rift in their setups I'm guessing it's tolerable in use, as I don't think you can muck with the values reported on the Rift.
A Vive + tracker setup would sidestep that problem, but has its own: tracking data would have an increased error margin. Since everything would be relative to the tracker, and the tracker has its own error margin, when you add the HMDs error on top of that, you basically double the potential for error. Of course you could use multiple trackers and average the HMD offsets to reduce the problem.
Man this is creepy. You're VR'd.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S91mWCjUAT0
Kung-Fu VR where you can play as Bruce Lee
No release date yet, this demo is being shown in Taipei game show now.
Kung-Fu VR where you can play as Bruce Lee
No release date yet, this demo is being shown in Taipei game show now.
irrotational
Member
I see pigs...Is this the new blue/gold viral craze
Durante - is serious Sam good in single player? I won't have anyone to co-op with.
Durante - is serious Sam good in single player? I won't have anyone to co-op with.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
So I made a parody of the well-worn meme.
Everyone else is seeing teddy bear heads in those trackers right?
I see the angry birds piggies
TharpDaddy
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S91mWCjUAT0
Kung-Fu VR where you can play as Bruce Lee
No release date yet, this demo is being shown in Taipei game show now.
I hope it comes with that outfit.
That looks kinda shallow and dumb. The shovelware reminds me a lot of the Wii except now it also has the ability to be a vomit comet.
I won The Gallery Episode 1 in the giveaway a while back in this thread (thanks again!) and finally got around to playing it.
It's very nicely done overall, great density of content and consistent quality. Also, you can feel that they devoted a lot of time to making sure the VR interactions feel right from the first time you pick anything up. (It's particularly obvious since I recently played a game that doesn't do nearly as well as that) Oh, and the audio (both sound effects and music) is fantastic.
However, I'm still happy I waited with buying it. In terms of length, it's basically as long as an average modern movie, so I think it should get a bit lower in price (or there should be more episodes out) to justify buying it.
It's very nicely done overall, great density of content and consistent quality. Also, you can feel that they devoted a lot of time to making sure the VR interactions feel right from the first time you pick anything up. (It's particularly obvious since I recently played a game that doesn't do nearly as well as that) Oh, and the audio (both sound effects and music) is fantastic.
However, I'm still happy I waited with buying it. In terms of length, it's basically as long as an average modern movie, so I think it should get a bit lower in price (or there should be more episodes out) to justify buying it.
Zalusithix
Member
Merits of that game not withstanding, nunchucks in VR could be interesting - along with flails, whips, and other non-rigid weapons. They solve (or rather, sidestep) some of the major melee weapon problems in VR: feedback and phase through. Since the striking portion is somewhat independent of the held part, it can remain physics based and react like it would in real life. Rather than phase through a VR object to maintain sync with the hand movement IRL, it can glance off the VR object while the handle remains in sync with the hand. They also force a minimum hand movement speed with immediate visual feedback. If the ball on a flail is just limping on the end of its chain as you swing, it's obviously not going fast enough to do damage. Compare that to a blade where you really have no idea when you've reached "proper" momentum - especially without the impact physics or cuts manifesting themselves in realistic ways.
It's a pity those types of weapons haven't been explored more in VR games. 99% of what's out there is a gun, bow and blade.
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