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[CornBurrito]

While I do agree that there should be living wages, I also feel like if a person is stuck in a minimum wage job like at McDonalds, that person has to do something else to improve themselves so that they aren't stuck there. Whether that is through education or learning a new skill, no one is better suited to help that person. The opportunities and the resources to help them improve are there.

I'm confused. College costs money. Most better jobs require either a degree, serious networking, or both. All of those take time and money (networking may just take time and luck).

How is someone struggling to pay bills or buy food supposed to afford college, or network properly?

I worked fast food for my first job, made $4 an hour. When I wanted more money, I didn't something CRAZY. I got a better job.

Crazy concept

What if you cannot afford the bloated tuition prices necessary to get a college degree in order to find a better job? Get wealthy parents like you had?

I also seem to recall that you do not want socialized healthcare. So what happens if you do somehow manage to save up money to pay for college, and then get sick?

 

[captmorgan]

Negotiation 101: ask for more than you want.

Hows that working out for the NHL?

 

[iamblades]

Weird, how is that possible? Take McDonald's: they sell utter crap to comparatively high prices, pay their employees like crap, the "restaurant" is furnished with cheap shit - where does the money go?

McDonald's is a bit of an outlier as one of the more profitable fast food brands, but there are huge costs running a multinational business. Just think of all the real estate costs, for one. Good commercial real estate is not cheap.

 

[remnant]

I worked fast food for my first job, made $4 an hour. When I wanted more money, I didn't something CRAZY. I got a better job.

Crazy concept

You are a horrible person. You should have went on strike.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

I worked just shy of 40hrs a week in fast food all through 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade - still maintained a 4.3GPA and was in a few clubs. It was tiring, and I was often exhausted on the weekends and in class - but my mom didn't have much money, and it was the only way I'd be able to afford a vehicle, a game here or there, do stuff with my friends, and save money for school.

In college, I paid almost my entire way through school with a single job my freshman year, and three jobs at the same time later in my college career. I also took out a bunch of loans; and currently have 10s of thousands of dollars of debt.

It took many many, many months to find a good job after graduating - it is very cuthroat out there, especially if you're looking for something you want. Luckily, I landed on something quite good.

But even still, I live at home to pay down debts and help out with family bills and whatnot. Also, it will be a while before I can save up some cash in savings so I feel comfortable to move out on my own and know I can forge my own way.

***

And with all of that, I look around at those I graduated with. Most all of them that I know which are on gov't assistance or working minimum wage jobs either goofed off in school, or got married/pregnant in their teens, dropped out of college, etc. All the while, they often drive nicer cars than me or already are living on their own in a nice place with their S.O.

***

My extremely anecdotal evidence basically leads me to a single point and desire: I truly wish there was a system to provide higher wages to those actually deserving. The college graduate that can't find a job; the middle aged wife who just got divorced, the single mother who just got laid-off, the retiree that has worked 30yrs but SS is not enough, the person who is sick or has outrageous medical bills, etc.

I'm a big fan of helping those who have tried to carve their way but have hit speedbumps along the way. It happens - it can happen to anyone; and I'm a firm believer nobody is "too good" for a particular job. But with that said, I can't help but feel a lot of people put themselves in the bad position in the first place by making poor decisions while others tried to be responsible.

Anyhoo, that would be a perfect system - and perfect systems do not exist. So I struggle taking a side on the issue. But i will read this thread pretty thoroughly, as I do find both sides to the argument to be quite convincing.

 

[Angry Fork]

I've lived on minimum wage for approximately 3 years before going back to school to finish my bachelors degree. I got my BA when I was 28 years old.

I did live with my parents to offset costs though. Why isn't living with parents an option? If it isn't, why not look for 3-4 roommates to reduce the cost of an apartment even further?

Because you shouldn't have to do that to survive in the richest country in the world? Especially when most other developed countries have higher minimum wage than us because they're not as bat shit as we are.

 

[speedline]

Shit, where I live you have people with degrees and certifications that don't make $15 an hour starting out. They can go to hell with wanting 15 bucks an hour to do part time work at a fast food joint. I would almost be on their side if what they ask for was reasonable. Go get a better job, get a better set of skills if you have to.

 

[remnant]

Because you shouldn't have to do that to survive in the richest country in the world? Especially when most other developed countries have higher minimum wage than us because they're not as bat shit as we are.

Many people in other countries still live with their parents way past they graduate college...if they even go.

 

[CornBurrito]

You are a horrible person. You should have went on strike.

I didn't realize there were infinite better jobs available.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I've lived on minimum wage for approximately 3 years before going back to school to finish my bachelors degree. I got my BA when I was 28 years old.

I did live with my parents to offset costs though. Why isn't living with parents an option? If it isn't, why not look for 3-4 roommates to reduce the cost of an apartment even further?

Why do you handwave "go live with your parents" like people have that luxury? You might, but many don't. They'd have to do the roommate thing (if it can work out), or worse.

 

[speedline]

I didn't realize there were infinite better jobs available.

There are over 96,000 jobs available in New York City right now. You think all of them pay $7.25 an hour?

http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=&l=new+york+city

 

[captmorgan]

Simple solution, add a zero. Done

7.25 now becomes 70.50 and hour!

Then just add a zero to all the prices and then everything stays the same.

 

[iamblades]

Many people in other countries still live with their parents way past they graduate college...if they even go.

I would also suggest comparing youth and overall unemployment rates in the US vs. Europe.

Higher minimum wages does not magically solve every economic problem. The real issue is that we have people who are incapable of actually producing work of value because our educational system is a piece of shit. Raising the minimum wage will not help this situation at all. It is basically mathematically incapable of helping the overall economy.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Democrats want to raise the min. wage to 9.80 and tie it to inflation. House Republicans don't. We do need a living wage even for fast food. You work you get a better life than those on welfare. There's no reason to work for pennies while making people rich.

I quit my job at Cub Foods(SuperValu) and protested by myself outside with a big sign for a couple days. Made $7.00 was 25 years old with lots of work experience.

At a DQ I talked to many of my underlings that we should strike for better wages. I was making $9.30 while they were getting 5-6 or whatever the min wage was. My idea was more or less to help them as I just got a raise and I saw that many worked pretty hard and got little for it. Couldn't convince dipfuck 16-17 year olds and they told the owner and I got fired.

Spoke to Mankato city council about min. wage. Called ahead to see if I could speak on the issue and I could. Fuckers cut me off after 10 seconds and said there was nothing they could do city charter bullshit even though all but 1 agrees with me according to one after the meeting.Complete BS as Council can approve who opens shop in city but has no say of what they pay.

System is fucked. So happy I don't work.

 

[kiunchbb]

well, here's something (which, admittedly, i've only skimmed through) that states it being rather negligible in the food industry (where they think it would impact more than other industries because of the amount of persons at minimum wage in that sector):

Full PDF

Great article, thank you. If you work 40 hours a week, you deserve to make at least enough to support yourself. Employees with more skills and education should be rewarded with luxury and extra spending power, not basic human need.

 

[Halvie]

What if you cannot afford the bloated tuition prices necessary to get a college degree in order to find a better job? Get wealthy parents like you had?

I also seem to recall that you do not want socialized healthcare. So what happens if you do somehow manage to save up money to pay for college, and then get sick?

You need a degree to work construction / get into a trade?

 

[The Crimson Kid]

Actions like this are long overdue. Median wages have been stagnant for thirty years while prices have inflated naturally in the meantime and the costs of education and healthcare have skyrocketed. That minimum wage job in the early '80s was worth more in real purchasing power than a minimum wage job today. Even people who are employed full-time at these low-paying jobs can't make enough to support more than them-self or to grow off of & invest in education. That's why all the people saying "These people don't deserve $15 an hour." are completely missing the bigger picture.

In fact, most of these workers make so little that they qualify for state & federal aid programs, which only serves to cost the American taxpayer more. Just because we aren't paying slightly more at these business establishments doesn't mean we aren't paying somewhere for shortchanging these employees.

Fine, raise the minimum wage, but then I want my pay raised by that amount as well.

Raise min wage to whatever you want, just make sure my wage increases accordingly to cancel out the price increases. The numbers in the end are meaningless, its the buying power thats important.

IF these people got what they wanted on a large scale, the market wouldn't just treat them like they are in a vacuum. That's not how a market works. Historically, when large groups of people get pay raises, it puts pressure on other employers to raise the wages of their employees as well, even if their employees do a more valuable job than those that originally got a raise. By raising the market value of less valuable employees when your market value stays the same, the incentive to stay at your current employer goes down because even though your pay stays the same, your relative worth in the marketplace is less. So employers that wish to retain the talent they currently have will most likely give you a raise as well as an incentive to keep you employed there.

I worked fast food for my first job, made $4 an hour. When I wanted more money, I didn't something CRAZY. I got a better job.

Crazy concept

Good for you.

That kind of worldview would work perfectly fine if there were a limitless supply of better jobs out there for anyone that was willing to apply themselves enough to get one. It's too bad this world isn't the perfect utopia you envision, because there aren't enough jobs of ANY kind out there for everyone to get a job, let alone ones that pay well enough to live off of. It wasn't but a couple years ago that there were 5 million more people looking for work of any sort than there were jobs available. It's better now, but not to the extent that you think it is.

It's also worth noting that people who were born poor probably have enough debt and credit issues that they wouldn't be able to take out the loan they would need to go to school to obtain a better job. Millions of people are basically trapped in their station in life, no matter how hard they try to get out of it, and your solution is for them to just "get a better job," despite the several walls in their way that make it basically impossible? Sounds like you are in favor of a caste system.

This "screw you, got mine" mentality is just as dependent on an impossible utopia to succeed as communism is. It's a good thing that more and more people are seeing that worldview for the garbage that it is, and hopefully in a couple decades, it will sit alongside communism in history's dumpster of failed economic perspectives.

 

[iamblades]

Actions like this are long overdue. Median wages have been stagnant for thirty years while prices have inflated naturally in the meantime and the costs of education and healthcare have skyrocketed. That minimum wage job in the early '80s was worth more in real purchasing power than a minimum wage job today. Even people who are employed full-time at these low-paying jobs can't make enough to support more than them-self or to grow off of & invest in education. That's why all the people saying "These people don't deserve $15 an hour." are completely missing the bigger picture.

In fact, most of these workers make so little that they qualify for state & federal aid programs, which only serves to cost the American taxpayer more. Just because we aren't paying slightly more at these business establishments doesn't mean we aren't paying somewhere for shortchanging these employees.





IF these people got what they wanted on a large scale, the market wouldn't just treat them like they are in a vacuum. That's not how a market works. Historically, when large groups of people get pay raises, it puts pressure on other employers to raise the wages of their employees as well, even if their employees do a more valuable job than those that originally got a raise. By raising the market value of less valuable employees when your market value stays the same, the incentive to stay at your current employer goes down because even though your pay stays the same, your relative worth in the marketplace is less. So employers that wish to retain the talent they currently have will most likely give you a raise as well as an incentive to keep you employed there.



Good for you.

That kind of worldview would work perfectly fine if there were a limitless supply of better jobs out there for anyone that was willing to apply themselves enough to get one. It's too bad this world isn't the perfect utopia you envision, because there aren't enough jobs of ANY kind out there for everyone to get a job, let alone ones that pay well enough to live off of. It wasn't but a couple years ago that there were 5 million more people looking for work of any sort than there were jobs available. It's better now, but not to the extent that you think it is.

It's also worth noting that people who were born poor probably have enough debt and credit issues that they wouldn't be able to take out the loan they would need to go to school to obtain a better job. Millions of people are basically trapped in their station in life, no matter how hard they try to get out of it, and your solution is for them to just "get a better job," despite the several walls in their way that make it basically impossible? Sounds like you are in favor of a caste system.

This "screw you, got mine" mentality is just as dependent on an impossible utopia to succeed as communism is. It's a good thing that more and more people are seeing that worldview for the garbage that it is, and hopefully in a couple decades, it will sit alongside communism in history's dumpster of failed economic perspectives.

You just said yourself why minimum wage increase have no effect at all. All it does is cause inflation.

 

[Rubbish King]

A good chunk of the country has no public transit, period. You accept that unless you live directly in the core of a major city, you'll need to own a car.

I live in Arkansas and this is bogus! You have to have a car here!

Seems like your local council(or yank equivalent) need to change that, utterly ludicrous.. Not only is it bad for the environment its just plain shitty.. Although it's a lot cheaper to run a car over there I hear

 

[speedline]

Democrats want to raise the min. wage to 9.80 and tie it to inflation. House Republicans don't. We do need a living wage even for fast food. You work you get a better life than those on welfare. There's no reason to work for pennies while making people rich.

I quit my job at Cub Foods(SuperValu) and protested by myself outside with a big sign for a couple days. Made $7.00 was 25 years old with lots of work experience.

At a DQ I talked to many of my underlings that we should strike for better wages. I was making $9.30 while they were getting 5-6 or whatever the min wage was. My idea was more or less to help them as I just got a raise and I saw that many worked pretty hard and got little for it. Couldn't convince dipfuck 16-17 year olds and they told the owner and I got fired.

Spoke to Mankato city council about min. wage. Called ahead to see if I could speak on the issue and I could. Fuckers cut me off after 10 seconds and said there was nothing they could do city charter bullshit even though all but 1 agrees with me according to one after the meeting.Complete BS as Council can approve who opens shop in city but has no say of what they pay.

System is fucked. So happy I don't work.

thanks for your contributions to society. Worked a little fast food and retail grocery then called it quits huh? Yeah, the system really owed you more.

 

[Mudkips]

That kind of worldview would work perfectly fine if there were a limitless supply of better jobs out there for anyone that was willing to apply themselves enough to get one. It's too bad this world isn't the perfect utopia you envision, because there aren't enough jobs of ANY kind out there for everyone to get a job, let alone ones that pay well enough to live off of.

Just as there is a limited number of decent jobs there are a limited number of decent workers. Plenty of workers (from the top end to the very bottom) do not deserve their current jobs, let alone better-paying jobs.

If we had infinite resources everyone would have a house and 2 cars and a puppy that shits rainbows and no one would have to work. But we don't. People have to compete for jobs. If you want to help people then you should properly tax corporations. Raising the minimum wage just hurts the people in the middle because the assholes at the top will refuse to let go of their profits, ultimately increasing overall wealth disparity.

 

[Angry Fork]

Shit, where I live you have people with degrees and certifications that don't make $15 an hour starting out. They can go to hell with wanting 15 bucks an hour to do part time work at a fast food joint. I would almost be on their side if what they ask for was reasonable. Go get a better job, get a better set of skills if you have to.

You guys don't seem to understand the concept of inflation and the price of goods and services going up while wages don't. It isn't about skill sets, it's about surviving. 10-20 years from now everything will be much more expensive than it is now, and if the minimum wage is still 7 dollars would you think that's okay? Because it has already happened and it's why people are striking.

Just as there is a limited number of decent jobs there are a limited number of decent workers. Plenty of workers (from the top end to the very bottom) do not deserve their current jobs, let alone better-paying jobs.

If we had infinite resources everyone would have a house and 2 cars and a puppy that shits rainbows and no one would have to work. But we don't. People have to compete for jobs. If you want to help people then you should properly tax corporations. Raising the minimum wage just hurts the people in the middle because the assholes at the top will refuse to let go of their profits, ultimately increasing overall wealth disparity.

Literally nobody is asking the government to give a house and 2 cars to everyone. This is a cheap ploy to dismiss genuine problems that other highly developed reasonable countries don't have.

 

[Shambles]

15 an hour.

Lol. In my part of Canada the minimum wage sits around $8.90 but shits way more expensive here.

 

[Zips]

Uncontrolled wages are awful and businesses must often be forced to do things that make people able to live better.

The most ridiculous job posting I remember seeing was one for a position that required a Bachelor's degree, additional certification, and 2 years of experience in the field for $12/hr. And this is where the minimum wage is $10/hr.

That was an outlier, but I still often see jobs that require university education and work outside the set/paid hours for $15/hr, and not even for 8 hours a day.

 

[BattleMonkey]

You guys don't seem to understand the concept of inflation and the price of goods and services going up while wages don't. It isn't about skill sets, it's about surviving. 20 years from now everything will be much more expensive than it is now, and if the minimum wage is still 7 dollars would you think that's okay? Because it has already happened and it's why people are striking.

20 years from now minimum wage is not going to be 7 dollars. 20 years ago minimum wage was not 7 bucks. So no it has not already happened.

 

[Angry Fork]

20 years from now minimum wage is not going to be 7 dollars. 20 years ago minimum wage was not 7 bucks. So no it has not already happened.

I edited in 10. Inflation has gone up faster within the last 10 than the decade before due to dramatically more corporate handjobs. Also if republicans had their way the minimum wage would not go up 20 years from now. They wouldn't even have a minimum wage.

 

[jb1234]

Seems like your local council(or yank equivalent) need to change that, utterly ludicrous.. Not only is it bad for the environment its just plain shitty.. Although it's a lot cheaper to run a car over there I hear

It is ludicrous. Unfortunately, it'll never happen. It's more likely we'll invent zero-emission vehicles before we come up with a public transit system that services everyone in this gigantic, overly spread-out country.

 

[Uncledick]

In oz, fast food workers get paid between 15$-20$ an hour (which is like 16.50-21,50$ an hour american, also wage is age dependent here) and it seems to work fine.. ya the food is more expensive, but since everyjob is paid well it doesn't make a difference in the end.

I met this american guy here who worked as an apple retail store manager stateside and was making 13$ an hour. When he found out he could make 25-30$ an hour doing same gig in oz, he almost lost his shit. He couldn't understand how it works... I just don't know why america can't work with similar pay scales. Maybe too many people perhaps?

This american guy is now doing his damnest to migrate over to oz.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

So what is reasonable then? 8 dollars p/h for those over 25? Or are they asking for not unreasonable but unrealistic wages.. Because although it's shit they can't better jobs it would be insane to put them on 10-15 because regardless of their situation.. They aren't doing particularly hard work.. It may not be a pinic but it ain't difficult either

Not the point. Any job, at a minimum, should allow you to live a modest existence. That's why we work, to live. A living wage simply acknowledges the fact that different areas require different living costs. It's civilized, and fair and exactly what any society that prides itself on being a first world nation should provide.

 

[Buddha Beam]

Paying a McDonald's cashier $15 an hour would be insane.

I kind of do, too.

I have no problem with these kinds of low wage jobs existing... Existing for teenagers and college students or just as supplemental income.

The problem is people who REALLY should not be working at these jobs because they're over qualified or need something more, ARE IN FACT the ones working these low wage shit jobs. I would much rather we create/bring back more low skill+good pay jobs instead of punish McDonald's and Burger King for being the only places still hiring in this stupid country.

That all being said, $7.25 is still too low for the minimum wage and it should be raised regardless.

 

[Mudkips]

Literally nobody is asking the government to give a house and 2 cars to everyone. This is a cheap ploy to dismiss genuine problems that other highly developed reasonable countries don't have.

Literally people ARE asking for a guaranteed "livable wage", with a warped definition of livable. The current minimum wage is a livable wage in the vast majority of the country, people just don't want to live in the midwest or some place affordable. "But some people can't move!" If it's a choice between being homeless and moving, you can move.

 

[Funky Papa]

edit: lol wrong topic

 

[Camp Lo]

Paying a McDonald's cashier $15 an hour would be insane.

This. Those assholes can't even get orders right and now they want raises? Fuck these people.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Didn't baggers at grocery stores back in the day (50s, 60s) make enough to be able to live on their own?

 

[iamblades]

Also, thought I'd mention that outside of UK, Canada, Australia, Netherlands, and Luxembourg, US minimum wage is not that far out of line relative to the average hourly wage throughout most of the rest of Europe. It is mainly when you compare annual pay that it looks bad because US workers work far more hours than other countries. IIRC Germany doesn't even have a minimum wage.

 

[Izayoi]

Plus, there is such a concept as going back to school part time. If a person who is working 40 hours can't even dedicate a couple of hours to school, then they can continue to use that excuse to stay in poverty. I am working 40 hours and going back to school at the same time. I know it isn't easy, but a person has to do things to help themselves. This all depends on the person if they are willing to work towards that or not.

I'm sorry, but how the fuck do you expect someone who can barely afford to live to afford an education? This is the kind of thinking that leads to the active oppression of the poor. It's a vicious cycle, and the short-sightedness that you're displaying right now is exactly why we're in the situation we are today (that and unmitigated corporate greed, but that's another conversation).

Someone can't magically generate enough money to pay the bills and go to school, if they can't even pay the bills in the first place.

This. Those assholes can't even get orders right and now they want raises? Fuck these people.

Wow.

Literally people ARE asking for a guaranteed "livable wage", with a warped definition of livable. The current minimum wage is a livable wage in the vast majority of the country, people just don't want to live in the midwest or some place affordable. "But some people can't move!" If it's a choice between being homeless and moving, you can move.

Move and what? Be homeless wherever they go, assuming they're able to scrounge up enough money to actually get there? What if they have families? This "Better pull up those boot-straps!" mentality is honestly one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard. Are you incapable of placing yourself in the shoes of these people? I don't understand.

 

[Angry Fork]

Literally people ARE asking for a guaranteed "livable wage", with a warped definition of livable. The current minimum wage is a livable wage in the vast majority of the country, people just don't want to live in the midwest or some place affordable. "But some people can't move!" If it's a choice between being homeless and moving, you can move.

Just move people have arrived, nothing to see here.

 

[Uncledick]

Didn't baggers at grocery stores back in the day (50s, 60s) make enough to be able to live on their own?

Working at grocery stores as a cashier, or stock filler was a career in the 70s/80s. I worked at safeway (back home in canada for a few years. a grocery store btw) and the older guys told me that in the mid 80s they were getting about 15$ an hour, if their wages would of continued with inflation they be making about 29$ an hour now. Instead i think they top out at 18-19 an hour.

Anyone that doesn't think that wages are stagnant and purchasing power has drop dramatically is fuckin kidding themselves.

 

[iamblades]

Working at grocery stores as a cashier, or stock filler was a career in the 70s/80s. I worked at safeway (back home in canada for a few years. a grocery store btw) and the older guys told me that in the mid 80s they were getting about 15$ an hour, if their wages would of continued with inflation they be making about 29$ an hour now. Instead i think they top out at 18-19 an hour.

Anyone that doesn't think that wages are stagnant and purchasing power has drop dramatically is fuckin kidding themselves.

Which is completely inconsequential to the debate over whether a minimum wage is an effective way to solve the problem. I think you'll find most people in agreement that fast food wages are shit, across the political spectrum. The thing is, rational people don't want to pass a band-aid minimum wage increase that will not help and has the potential to make things worse for a lot of people.

Some reading material:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574402820278669840.html
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/financ...c-the-minimum-wage-causes-youth-unemployment/
http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2011/09/unemployment-and-youth-minimum-wage.html

 

[Devolution]

What's stopping us from basically paying less into defense and subsidizing the rest of their wages so they make a living wage without cutting into corporate profits/raising prices of food (since people are scared of board members making less).

 

[Ryaaan14]

I'm sorry but it's entirely possible to live off of minimum wage. Yeah you have to settle for shitty things, but that's what happens when you have a shitty job.

 

[Uncledick]

Which is completely inconsequential to the debate over whether a minimum wage is an effective way to solve the problem. I think you'll find most people in agreement that fast food wages are shit, across the political spectrum. The thing is, rational people don't want to pass a band-aid minimum wage increase that will not help and has the potential to make things worse for a lot of people.

Some reading material:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574402820278669840.html
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/financ...c-the-minimum-wage-causes-youth-unemployment/
http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2011/09/unemployment-and-youth-minimum-wage.html

i suppose so, but something has gotta give. The middle class is getting crushed all over the western world and what can fix it? Over the years talking to older workin class folk about wages/purchasing power/inflation all i can invision is a future with the few at the top (extreme rich) a bit more below them (upper middle class, doctors, lawyers etc) and then everyone else. Did this start with the collaspe of western manufacturing (when a worker could get 25$hr making hats)? I feel like in america and hell even Canada, in 30 years hence that they'll look like a bad version of mad max with the well-off behind their gated walls. It'll be in no way a stable and safe society. I really don't know what are the best options, but it worked before, how can it not work again (and it does work in oz, so far)

 

[Mudkips]

Move and what? Be homeless wherever they go, assuming they're able to scrounge up enough money to actually get there? What if they have families? This "Better pull up those boot-straps!" mentality is honestly one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard. Are you incapable of placing yourself in the shoes of these people? I don't understand.

1) Move to the midwest.
2) Suddenly able to afford living expenses on full-time minimum wage employment.

Just move people have arrived, nothing to see here.

Better than staying put and living on the streets. You can't talk about a livable wage and then not consider cost of living in 70% of the country.

 

[Izayoi]

I'm sorry but it's entirely possible to live off of minimum wage. Yeah you have to settle for shitty things, but that's what happens when you have a shitty job.

I'm sorry, but you're entirely incorrect. Even in my state, where minimum wage is over $9 an hour, it's only possible in the most rural areas - and that's if you can find a job out there at all.

1) Move to the midwest.
2) Suddenly able to afford living expenses on full-time minimum wage employment.

Yeah, seems reasonable. They should drop everything they own, liquidate their assets, tell their kids "tough shit", leave any family that may or may not have been relying on them behind, somehow come up with the many thousands it takes to move. Once they're there, it's only a matter of finding a place to live with no savings, what is likely shitty credit, knee-deep in debt, quickly find an adequate school for their kids to acclimate to, and then begin the often long and arduous process of getting a job at all.

Super easy to just "Move to the midwest."

 

[Mudkips]

I'm sorry, but you're entirely incorrect. Even in my state, where minimum wage is over $9 an hour, it's only possible in the most rural areas - and that's if you can find a job out there at all.

So you're saying it's possible. And what's wrong with rural?

 

[Zaptruder]

On a bit of a tangent, one good reason for paying people a livable wage for the areas they live in (meaning you don't want to pay people so little that they're forced to move away from where they work)...

Is the issue of traffic congestion and city livability.

How does that work? Well, if your poor people aren't living close to where they work, then they need to add to the traffic/transportation congestion to get to where they need to work. And the further out they need to live, the more time they spend on the road, the more time they're congesting the road.

Ideally, they live in an area that places cheap housing above shops - and then they walk down and go to work in a local area around said shops.

 

[Izayoi]

how can it not work again (and it does work in oz, so far)

Well, to start, an entire political party (one of the two largest in the country) that represents about half of the voters in the United States, that wants exactly what you described in your paragraph.

So you're saying it's possible. And what's wrong with rural?

Oh, I don't know, the fact that you have to move out there in the first place, and the fact that if everyone who needed a livable minimum wage moved there, it wouldn't exactly be "rural" anymore. Your proposal to "just move somewhere else" is at best incredibly ignorant, at worst downright demeaning. There are millions of people who are barely living off of minimum wage, digging themselves deeper into debt (and subsequently, further poverty), and you honestly expect them all to "just move"? I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not.

 

[iamblades]

I'm sorry, but you're entirely incorrect. Even in my state, where minimum wage is over $9 an hour, it's only possible in the most rural areas - and that's if you can find a job out there at all.


Yeah, seems reasonable. They should drop everything they own, liquidate their assets, tell their kids "tough shit", leave any family that may or may not have been relying on them behind, somehow come up with the many thousands it takes to move. Once they're there, it's only a matter of finding a place to live with no savings, what is likely shitty credit, knee-deep in debt, quickly find an adequate school for their kids to acclimate to, and then begin the often long and arduous process of getting a job at all.

Super easy to just "Move to the midwest."

I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh, but if you have children on a minimum wage job, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and I really have trouble working up sympathy for people in problems of their own making.

My mom managed to raise 3 kids mostly on a string of shit jobs and put herself through school while my father was busy being a drunk and worse most of the time, so do you know what I did? I didn't go knock some chick up right after high school because I didn't want another kid to go through that. It's amazing how much you can stretch a buck even with a shit job if you haven't burdened yourself with a lifetime obligation.

 

[Camp Lo]

Wow.

Wow, what? I'm all for paying competent people a decent wage but my experiences with fast food joints is they don't give a shit about the food or their job performance so fuck them.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

This. Those assholes can't even get orders right and now they want raises? Fuck these people.

A good portion of them are excellent employees, at least from what I've encountered.

Thus, those who perform well should be rewarded. A blanket raise is not fair just like $7.25/hr is "not fair."