REDRZA MWS
Member
It’s not being a snowflake, a snowflake is caving to identity politics and guess what? Their main consumers arent buying this shit. But by all means, keep it up.
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Shanw Layden (Former PlayStation CEO) on Ghost of Yotei protagonist being a female: "Don't like it? Don't buy it"
MMaRsu
Member
HogIsland
Member
"caving to identity politics" is an utterly meaningless statement. say what you mean.
REDRZA MWS
Member
You know exactly wtf I mean. Hiring people that aren’t the best qualified for any position just to fill a quota of diversity. Dont act stupid. Employment should be first and foremost based on merit, experience, skill, ie; best hire possible.
Just look at the disaster at 343 studios for one. MS had since backed off forced DEI bs.
For the record I don’t give a single fuck about race, gender, religious beliefs,none of that shit. Look what happened recently with the secret service. The DEI woman hire had ZERO experience and was fucking clueless. What happened? Two near assassination attempts on a presidential candidate.
Want more? I’m a retired FDNY firefighter. NYC and their radical left bs DEI hired another woman who HAD ZERO FUCKING EXPERIENCE running the NEW YORK COTY FIRE DEPT.
This isn’t fucking hate toward anyone. This is always about hiring the BEST MOST SKILLED AND MOST EXPERIENCED person for the job regardless of DEI or identity politics. This isn’t rocket science.
REDRZA MWS
Member
PS- i always say what the fuck I mean. Maybe your in your 20’s and were brainwashed on tic toc and whatever they teach in school these days.
HogIsland
Member
i literally would not have guessed this is what you were getting at, so thanks for the clarification.
not sure how it applies to putting a woman protagonist in a videogame tho. how can you be sure she's not the best qualified hero?
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Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
We're getting a lot of this lately wouldn't you say..
Yes, indeed. It's all so very.. weird. I know he's an ex employee, but the fact remains
Stooky
Member
Calm down. Having a female lead in your game is not going woke. Don't know how you come to that conclusion with Sucker Punch.
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REDRZA MWS
Member
It’s not the fact of a woman protagonist. It’s the forced “inclusion” all these companies have caved too. GoT was a great game. Had to force DEI to make corporate happy. Yet, sales will take the hit, as always.
REDRZA MWS
Member
You actually believe it’s just sucker punch? You ain’t “woke”, your asleep.
HogIsland
Member
it takes a special kind of mindset to reach the conclusion you've reached. it seems self-evident to you, for reasons.
Moriarty1889
Member
I think a lot of people have actually looked deeper into this and have seen all the very open hateful shit she has said on all her social media posts. Someone like this is the person they chose to represent the character in the game. They knew what she had said and still decided to endorse her for the project. That speaks volumes of the dev and makes consumers question the whole thing. People have a right to choose and a right to not choose. The same way this crazy woman has a right to post the stupid she she has and continues to post. So it’s not all about her being a woman and replacing Jin…….it’s more about the type of person that was selected for this job. That is what a lot of people are railing against as they could have picked another woman and not some radical openly hateful lunatic.
REDRZA MWS
Member
Damn right because I fucking lived and experienced it. When NYC and their bullshit left radical policies hire incompetent people just to meet a diversity quota, peoplle die. In actual real life experience. Get out of your mother’s house and get into the real world and see for yourself.
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Stooky
Member
ill say it again just because a game has female doesn't make it woke. For Sucker Punch GOT told a story and now GOY is a telling a new story with a new lead character. Its not gender swapping so WTF are y'all mad about?
Stooky
Member
Well those people are speculating and they don't know anything about what the game is. Especially to form any type of strong criticism about it. How bout lets see what Sucker Punch makes. Maybe Dev booked her because she an good actor that has martial arts training and that made her the best choice for the character. Maybe dev understands her social media posting is her 1st amendment right, and does not effect her performance at her job. People need to calm down
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REDRZA MWS
Member
No, that’s just your indoctrination in school. It’s not your fault. You didn’t get what human beings need to get to succeed suck as advanced math and science. All you got was lower education standers, learn to hate the USA, and question your gender.
You are sorely mistaken. I have zero problems with Female protagonists, especially established or brand new IP. It’s idiots talking about Nintendos Link being a female, or transgender, or non fucking binary. It’s all forced “equality” shit. You don’t have to force that shit on established characters. Or change just for the sake of “diversity”. You can create new original IP with any characters “identity”, as long as it’s a great game
People will play if.
Stooky
Member
holy sh.........were talking about Sucker Punch RIGHT? in this thread we are talking about Sucker Punch new game GOY Right!? Did I mention any other game/dev? and IM asleep........
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REDRZA MWS
Member
Nah, you can’t be ignorant enough to see this shit everywhere. But all of a sudden sucker punch isn’t funded totally by Sony. Wake the fuck up.
Stooky
Member
I guess i gotta spell it out to it you......holy shi....smh........ Im talking about s u c k e r p u n c h. im not going to lump all of woke gaming on sucker punch over 1 trailer that shows nothing. Im not going to dig through a contractors social media to reach a conclusion about 400 employee dev. As if that this actor has any control over what this game is. Im not that paranoid. I don't care about woke, i just care if product its good or not. I can tell you what i did see, a bunch of anti woke warriors saw a female lead character. looked up the actress and i guess she she has 'woke' comments on her ig. Then anti woke mob decided the game and Sucker Punch must be woke. Bravo got'em! slow clap.
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samoilaaa
Member
so its just a coincidence that almost all 1st party IP from sony have female protagonist ?
its just a coincidence that the last of us changed from male to female
its just a coincidence that uncharted changed from male to female
its just a coincidence that ghost changed male to female
its just a coincidence that in a spider man game you are forced to play with a female
its just a coincidence that in ratched and clank you are force to play as a female
its just a coincidence that in wolverine you are forced to play as a female
if you cant see the pattern wake the fuck up
oh and btw if u still dont believe and think its a conspiracy https://www.neogaf.com/threads/toto...l-be-driven-by-playstation-margin-of.1675571/
the boss himself said that they want to focus and DEI
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David Ricardo
Member
In current political climate with girlboss games and movies bombing left and right, you don't choose a gender fluid, pansexual, defund the police, extreme left activist as main protagonist in your game unless you share her/his/their ideology
Stooky
Member
ghost didn't change from male to female. its different game different story different character. OMG i have to play as a female WHAAHAHAHAh. You are crying about playing a female in ratchet clank!? They have same freakin move set OMG its almost just model swap. anti woke and woke ya'll are exactly the same. Its hilarious. there are serious arguments, but what you are saying aint it.
Stooky
Member
So you are saying in all cases this is true.........prove it and i know you can't. Companies currently aligned because with these people because they had presence on social media and they thought it would help promote their game, there was synergy there. But it some cases it backfired and companies are now backing off. All im saying is Anti-woke crusaders take a breath wait for the game to come out then judge away with your wallet. Taking at look at game trailer that has a female lead from a company that makes great games and calling it woke is a trash assumption. If you are going to dig through an actors profile for their politics to judge a project they are working on its means absolutely shit they don't control the project. they are one piece of a big project. If you are going to that that then you should really look at all the social media of the hundreds of devs working on the game.
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Duchess
Member
No issues at all for me that it's a female protagonist.
What will annoy me is if the game decides to lecture me on all sorts of social issues.
(although I'll concede if they're historically accurate, they get a pass)
Edit: I just found this. Interesting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-musha
What will annoy me is if the game decides to lecture me on all sorts of social issues.
(although I'll concede if they're historically accurate, they get a pass)
Edit: I just found this. Interesting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-musha
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DeepSpace5D
Member
I think you’d be hard pressed to find many people here or elsewhere that thinks Shawn still works at Sony or owns the product that is Ghost of Yotei. That doesn’t mean his comment wasn’t directed towards gamers.
He gave his opinion on the matter, which he is free to do. His opinion was picked up by IGN and various other websites across the internet, and gamers also have a right to give their opinion of said comment.
Hence the topic of this thread.
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genesisblock
Member
Yeah, after the poor reception. Not before.
DeepSpace5D
Member
You claimed Hermen greenlit Concord. I was just asking how you know that for sure, as opposed to Jim Ryan greenlighting the project.
Back to E3 2015, my personal game of show was The Last Guardian. That game was reintroduced at that conference by Shawn Layden, sure. But iirc, it had already been in development for around 8 years at that point? So I’d also like to see proof that he was the one responsible for that project, because I couldn’t find anything about that.
I’m curious what games you would say Shawn Layden was personally responsible during that conference. Some of the biggest Megaton announcements of that conference were also third-party titles, like FFVII Remake and Shenmue III. Similarly, some of the biggest and highly regarded third-party release this year have also occurred under Hermen’s watch, such as FFVII: Rebirth, Helldivers II, and Stellar Blade.
I see many people that clearly dislike Hermen try to pin the big failure of Concord squarely on him, while curiously omitting huge successes in the very same year, such as Helldivers II.
For me personally, as long as I keep getting titles under Hermen’s watch such as Demon’s Souls remake, Astro Bot, and especially Returnal which I think is a better game than anything that came out of E3 2015, then he’s alright in my book.
genesisblock
Member
I've already addressed this issue of greenlit projects under Herman which is right where you quoted me. To re-iterate, whether or not he did or did not does not absolve him from ownership. He can, at any time during Concord's development choose to strike it down before it got out hand. If the rumours are to be believed, this game was already in development hell long before it was purchased.
We do not judge the leadership based on its success but rather how they manage crises or failures. And if I was an investor, this is not the person I would want running the studios.
DeepSpace5D
Member
Ok and then how about the other points I made? Plenty of success stories during his time as well. Helldivers II being a huge one this year. I would say equally as big a success as Concord is a failure.
And I also sorta take issue with you just saying “E3 2015” without much elaboration and assuming Shawn takes credit for all of those, while kind of simultaneously refusing to give Hermen credit for games that have been revealed and released under his watch.
its more about the va being woke as hell on x.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
I dont think anyone had anything against her being female lead. Actually I made a comment how this was marketing done right, no talk of female empowerment, boss-babe etc...just a female they gave a katana to, sticking to historical setting, didnt feel forced. Problem was 10 minutes later the real-actor for the character is a total wack job lol. Just when I thought finaly we get female lead without the BS. Im still buying the game though, dont care about any of these ppl in real life, Im going to look at her as the character in the game. Wont care about opinions and posts of the real person but everyone knows whats up.
If a character is portrayed by lets say Troy baker, couldnt care less if its him or some unknown honestly.
If a character is portrayed by lets say Troy baker, couldnt care less if its him or some unknown honestly.
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AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
Helldivers was a success as in it got good reviews and so on but the game mention fell off a cliff in a short time for a game thats supposed to be long lasting. barely anyone talks about it anymore, unlike lets say Destiny which still has topics made about it. HD2 kinda went like a fart in the wind.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
But also "The Horizon franchise has sold over 32 million copies" and "The Last of Us 2 was profitable on day 1" according to Neil Druckman.
DeepSpace5D
Member
Helldivers II is consistently averaging a higher concurrent player count on Steam than Destiny 2, by quite some margin. It peaked this year at a much higher concurrent player count than Destiny ever has at any point upon the release of a Destiny 2 expansion. For the record, I am a big Destiny player and put around 800 hours into it last year. But the success of Helldivers II is undeniable.
Even if Helldivers II didn’t sell a single copy from here on out, which it undoubtedly will, it would still be seen as a massive success. Over 12 million copies sold as of 4 months ago. Probably well over 15 million at this point. The biggest surprise success story of the year in my opinion. And I believe it will maintain a higher concurrent player count than Destiny 2 for the remainder of each game’s life. I love Destiny 2 but it is dying a slow death. Granted, it has been out for much longer.
genesisblock
Member
I'm sorry, what are you smoking? Helldivers 2 did not have the reported 400 million budget that Concord had, if it did. It would be a much bigger game equal to that of Destiny 2 in terms of marketing and release front and centre. They are in no way equal nor do they cancel each other out. It was an unintended success but Sony, being Sony... decided to place the PSN requirements on places that has no PSN region for Steam players and guess who was in charge in that front.
Concord is not just a failure, it's the biggest blunder in the history of gaming so much so, it overtook over ET's Atari in comparison.
And once again you completely ignores my posts on leadership failures. It does not matter how much "success" you have, if you costs the company money and any conceivable way, you are a liability. Period.
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Stooky
Member
this definition of snowflake exist only in your brain.
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DeepSpace5D
Member
The fact that Helldivers II has achieved the success it has on a smaller budget, I think, speaks even more favorably to it.
But I have a simple question for you. Was E3 2015 a success, or a failure? I would say the event itself, and the games that came out of it, would be universally viewed as a resounding success. Probably the greatest E3 ever to many, certainly amongst PlayStation fans.
Yet by your logic, you shouldn’t have even used that as an example to counter my original point, because you cannot judge Shawn Layden’s leadership based on the successes he had. Only by how he managed failures. So can you explain why you brought this up to me in the first place?
I don’t agree with you personally. I think a leader should be judged on a combination of their successes and failures to get an overall picture.
To me it seems like you’d prefer to point out the successes of Shawn Layden, and the failures of Hermen Hulst. We gotta stay consistent at least.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
For you guys talking Concord budgets and H2 above, having such extreme ends of success and failure plus the usual pot of gold every company stares at (COD and Fortnite), it's just going to fuck up Sony even more.
Add in the Bungie fiasco lately (sinking sales and layoffs), and what's going to happen is Sony will put H2 on a pedestal of success other GAAS games under development will be compared against. On one hand, there will be more failures (Fairgames will be another one guaranteed), but because H2 has been big success it'll tease Sony to keep trucking.
It's like buying stocks. Every person who does for years gets the same feeling..... you invest a bunch of money into different stocks. You get lucky with one big winner. You now compare every other stock you got against it.... woulda, coulda, shoulda, hindsight 20/20 etc..... And when you get on a bad rut, you get teased to bet bigger because at some point you think another big win has got to come around sooner or later. Maybe. Maybe not. That's how gamblers lose all their money.
Sony is in this rut. H2 success. Concord failure, Bungie sinking, some other GAAS cancelled already (Factions 2, that unknown Deviation studios game already dead, and some more I forgot already axed).
H2 success is great. But could be a curse.
Add in the Bungie fiasco lately (sinking sales and layoffs), and what's going to happen is Sony will put H2 on a pedestal of success other GAAS games under development will be compared against. On one hand, there will be more failures (Fairgames will be another one guaranteed), but because H2 has been big success it'll tease Sony to keep trucking.
It's like buying stocks. Every person who does for years gets the same feeling..... you invest a bunch of money into different stocks. You get lucky with one big winner. You now compare every other stock you got against it.... woulda, coulda, shoulda, hindsight 20/20 etc..... And when you get on a bad rut, you get teased to bet bigger because at some point you think another big win has got to come around sooner or later. Maybe. Maybe not. That's how gamblers lose all their money.
Sony is in this rut. H2 success. Concord failure, Bungie sinking, some other GAAS cancelled already (Factions 2, that unknown Deviation studios game already dead, and some more I forgot already axed).
H2 success is great. But could be a curse.
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DeepSpace5D
Member
I don’t necessarily disagree with you. But I’m personally not willing to write off Fairgames until gameplay has been shown of it.
I do think though with each success or failure that occurs with these type of games, it should hopefully be a learning lesson on what mistakes not to repeat in the future. If a game is fun, doesn’t push agendas, and doesn’t have monetary practices that come off as too predatory, I reckon it can have a decent chance to be successful.
John Wick
Member
Let me know when you have sold it. So we can post memes mocking you
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