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[Smokey]

So does anyone here have a 590 or even a 6990? I know they get shit on but there's gotta be at least one on here that has either.

 

[Domstercool]

I have a 6990

 

[cackhyena]

What's the difference between these two for someone getting the 2500k?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...707R&cm_re=ASUS_P8P67-_-13-131-707R-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131705

 

[mkenyon]

One is open box and microATX, meaning fewer expansion slots. The other is brand new and ATX, meaning more expansion slots.

 

[Izayoi]

What's the difference between these two for someone getting the 2500k?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...707R&cm_re=ASUS_P8P67-_-13-131-707R-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131705

MicroATX boards are very small. You get more PCI slots, more USB 3.0 ports, and more SATA 6.0Gbp/s slots with the normal one. If none of those sound appealing to you grab the Micro, just know that it's going to be VERY cramped.

 

[jarosh]

thanks guys. think i'm gonna go with the 2500k then

what's with the "unlocked" thing and certain boards not supporting it? is it about overclocking?

 

[Mashing]

Going to pick up this after work:

EVGA GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5 PCIe 2.0 x16 Video Card
Caviar Black 1TB 7,200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
H60 Hydro Water Cooler
P8P67 Pro-R3 LGA 1155 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7 2600K LGA 1155 Boxed Processor
Corsair Vengeance Series 8GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) CL9 Dual Channel Desktop Memory

Will go into my existing Coolermaster Cosmos case and 750W PSU.

I may build another PC with my current components or sell them. Haven't decided yet. Looking forward to building and OC'ing this thing (my first overclock at that).

 

[Izayoi]

thanks guys. think i'm gonna go with the 2500k then

what's with the "unlocked" thing and certain boards not supporting it? is it about overclocking?

"K" designates that it's an unlocked processor, which means you can overclock it. The LE editions of the P67 motherboards do not support overclocking.

Also, aw shit.

 

[clav]

MicroATX boards are very small. You get more PCI slots, more USB 3.0 ports, and more SATA 6.0Gbp/s slots with the normal one. If none of those sound appealing to you grab the Micro, just know that it's going to be VERY cramped.

I have a microATX and game on it just fine with a microATX case.

I have an affinity for small setups though.

The huge bulky tower systems remind me of the 90s and early 2000s computers.

 

[Corky]

Damn gaf is representing, like 99% of all builds here have 580s in em

Give me your money.

 

[mkenyon]

thanks guys. think i'm gonna go with the 2500k then

what's with the "unlocked" thing and certain boards not supporting it? is it about overclocking?

A CPU's speed is determined by Bus speed and CPU multiplier. IIRC, Sandybridge CPUs have 100mhz bus speed, so a 3.3Gghz proc is 100mhz x 33 multiplier. An unlocked CPU (designated by the K's) means that you can change that multiplier to larger numbers, thereby increasing the speed of the proc. The H67 motherboards limit your ability to mess with the multiplier and voltage, which would nullify the benefits of getting an unlocked processor. The P67 motherboards allow you to mess with that stuff, so if you go for a K processor, you want a P67 motherboard.

"K" designates that it's an unlocked processor, which means you can overclock it. The LE editions of the P67 motherboards do not support overclocking.

Also, aw shit.

Olympia, WA here! NW GAF represent.

 

[cackhyena]

MicroATX boards are very small. You get more PCI slots, more USB 3.0 ports, and more SATA 6.0Gbp/s slots with the normal one. If none of those sound appealing to you grab the Micro, just know that it's going to be VERY cramped.

Yikes, don't think I want to save money that badly. Thanks.

 

[clav]

Yikes, don't think I want to save money that badly. Thanks.

They're not as small as he's making them out to be though.

However, it doesn't make sense to get an ATX tower case and not put a ATX size board in it.

 

[Wallach]

Yikes, don't think I want to save money that badly. Thanks.

This is a mATX board: Link

It really doesn't matter unless you have plans for the additional PCI slots or want to CF/SLI.

 

[mkenyon]

They're not as small as he's making them out to be though.

However, it doesn't make sense to get an ATX tower case and not put a ATX size board in it.

I actually disagree with this. I love how much room there is in a mid tower when you plop a mATX board in there. My HTPC is setup like that. Makes it a breeze to build, looks super tidy.

 

[TheExodu5]

If you have a dual or triple slot GPU, Micro ATX might be a pain. you're just a bit more cramped since the GPU is going to cover a lot of the connections (especially the SATA connections).

 

[cackhyena]

Yeah, my heart is set on the Fractal r3 case, so I don't think I'd get the micro. More usb and PCI slots are always a nice thing to have as well, I guess.

 

[Izayoi]

I have a microATX and game on it just fine with a microATX case.

I have an affinity for small setups though.

The huge bulky tower systems remind me of the 90s and early 2000s computers.

Never said you couldn't, just that it would be cramped. Fitting an aftermarket cooling on it could be a problem, and some people just don't like working with such a small build, myself included.

I love the towers just for that reason. So fucking awesome.

Damn gaf is representing, like 99% of all builds here have 580s in em

Give me your money.

The 580 is such a beast. Coming from a 4890 I am excited to see what this thing can do.

 

[momolicious]

Isnt spending 400-500 dollars on a video card like GTX580 yield diminishing returns?

 

[TheExodu5]

Isnt spending 400-500 dollars on a video card like GTX580 yield diminishing returns?

Yes. However, depending what you're upgrading from, the relative performance gain per dollar can be just as high, or higher, than some of the lower end cards.

For example, the GTX 570 was around 50% faster than my GTX 275, while the GTX 580 was around 70% faster...hence the performance gain per dollar scaled nearly perfectly with the price.

Also, some people are simply willing to pay a bit of a premium for the best single card money can buy. If it means the difference in between 50fps and 60fps in The Witcher 2, it might be worth it to you.

 

[Izayoi]

Olympia, WA here! NW GAF represent.

Hell yeah. I'm actually in Monroe, not sure why I blocked out the city to be honest.

Isnt spending 400-500 dollars on a video card like GTX580 yield diminishing returns?

Yeah. Most people would probably be better off with a 470, or SLI'd 460's. I don't build new machines very often, however, so when I do I get the absolute best single-GPU solution available.

 

[Corky]

Isnt spending 400-500 dollars on a video card like GTX580 yield diminishing returns?

No doubt, but that goes for all high end gear. The higher you go the more diminishing returns you get.

 

[nexen]

pulled the trigger on:

* Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor

* ASUS P8P67 LE (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

* G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory

After hemming an hawing on the advice TheExodu5 gave me. Total damage was $458 shipped. Now to wait...

Thanks again!

New rig is up and running and smells strongly of win.

NFS:HP solid 60hz maxxed out.
RFG solid 60hz maxxed out no matter how many thermobaric rockets I pump out.
Just Cause 2 maxxed out is ~40hz, good enough for me.
GTAIV solid 30hz maxxed out (lame)
Arma II unstable ~30hz maxxed out (playable though)
Metro 2033 runs better but still sub 30hz

I guess I should have expected the gains to be so uneven given how CPU bound my rig was before upgrading.

 

[TheExodu5]

I highly recommend NOT getting SLI, unless you're willing to deal with the issues. Even though a GTX 580 is slower, I would still always get it over 2x GTX 460.

New rig is up and running and smells strongly of win.

NFS:HP solid 60hz maxxed out.
RFG solid 60hz maxxed out no matter how many thermobaric rockets I pump out.
Just Cause 2 maxxed out is ~40hz, good enough for me.
GTAIV solid 30hz maxxed out (lame)
Arma II unstable ~30hz maxxed out (playable though)
Metro 2033 runs better but still sub 30hz

I guess I should have expected the gains to be so uneven given how CPU bound my rig was before upgrading.

Yeah, in some games you might not expect any games if they were CPU light. Still, you won't be CPU bound for quite a while to come (especially if you eventually overclock it), so you should at least feel a tad liberated.

Oh, and you might want to give emulation (Dolphin, especially) a shot now that you have a beefy CPU.

 

[clav]

I actually disagree with this. I love how much room there is in a mid tower when you plop a mATX board in there. My HTPC is setup like that. Makes it a breeze to build, looks super tidy.

For a HTPC build, it would be more ideal to do a miniITX setup unless you absolutely have to game on it.

I highly recommend NOT getting SLI, unless you're willing to deal with the issues. Even though a GTX 580 is slower, I would still always get it over 2x GTX 460.

Yes, I agree with this. SLI is overrated.

 

[cackhyena]

I've never even tried a GTX. I've only ever had this 4870 since I started PC gaming, so I have some retarded sense of loyalism to ATI for this one card because it's treated me so well. Does the 580 blow away the 6970 or something?

 

[TheExodu5]

I've never even tried a GTX. I've only ever had this 4870 since I started PC gaming, so I have some retarded sense of loyalism to ATI for this one card because it's treated me so well. Does the 580 blow away the 6970 or something?

In the GPU world, yes...but that means it's about 15% faster. Simply put, if you're looking for more performance than the GTX 570 or 6970 offers, then the GTX 580 is the card to get.

It's diminishing returns all the way up. The best value for the money is arguably the 4850 which can be had for around $80 in many places (or the GTX 460 768mb when it's on sale for ~$120). The $280 6950 is only around 50-60% faster, for 150% more money. The higher you climb, the more the returns diminish.

But that being said, if you're coming from a 4870, upgrading to only a GTX 460 might seem a tad wasteful, since you won't be getting nearly as big of a performance gain.

 

[mkenyon]

I've never even tried a GTX. I've only ever had this 4870 since I started PC gaming, so I have some retarded sense of loyalism to ATI for this one card because it's treated me so well. Does the 580 blow away the 6970 or something?

Yep. 6970 is also a good deal cheaper though. It's direct competitor is the 570. 580 is more or less in it's own category, as the 6990 and 590 are both more expensive and more powerful.

 

[The Teachinator]

I heard there are terrible problems with reliability on the 590. That's why I stayed away.

 

[Wallach]

Yes. However, depending what you're upgrading from, the relative performance gain per dollar can be just as high, or higher, than some of the lower end cards.

For example, the GTX 570 was around 50% faster than my GTX 275, while the GTX 580 was around 70% faster...hence the performance gain per dollar scaled nearly perfectly with the price.

Uhh... I'm not sure this makes sense, really.

 

[nexen]

Yeah, in some games you might not expect any games if they were CPU light. Still, you won't be CPU bound for quite a while to come (especially if you eventually overclock it), so you should at least feel a tad liberated.

I'm happy. I had a mild windfall so I wanted to future proof myself a little. I'll upgrade cards next cycle and then we'll see what's what.

Oh, and you might want to give emulation (Dolphin, especially) a shot now that you have a beefy CPU.

I'm an avid emulator enthusiast even though I never post in those threads. I need to get Dolphin set up though. How difficult is it to get the wiimote working right?

edit: seeing all the destruction go in RFG without dropping a single frame is goddamn glorious.

 

[cackhyena]

Thanks, guys. I think I just have to resolve to sticking to these components and not think about the newest shit that's going to take it over in mere months, seemingly. I'm going with the 6970 and holding out as long as I can before an upgrade. Now I just need mo money to actually do this thing.

 

[Mashing]

Yes. However, depending what you're upgrading from, the relative performance gain per dollar can be just as high, or higher, than some of the lower end cards.

For example, the GTX 570 was around 50% faster than my GTX 275, while the GTX 580 was around 70% faster...hence the performance gain per dollar scaled nearly perfectly with the price.

Also, some people are simply willing to pay a bit of a premium for the best single card money can buy. If it means the difference in between 50fps and 60fps in The Witcher 2, it might be worth it to you.

In my case it's just because I'm just crazy. I plan on adding in another 580 later down the line which is going to be ridiculous and will hold me off for quite a long time.

 

[TheExodu5]

Uhh... I'm not sure this makes sense, really.

It makes perfect sense. Let's take an (extreme) example.

Let's say we're upgrading from a 5870. We're considering the GTX 570 and GTX 580.

The GTX 570 offers a 10% improvement over the 5870 for $350. That's 35$/%.
The GTX 580 offers a 26% improvement over the 5870 for $500. That's 19$/%.

Hence, in terms of relative performance gain, the GTX 580 would be a far better value.

 

[jarosh]

"K" designates that it's an unlocked processor, which means you can overclock it. The LE editions of the P67 motherboards do not support overclocking.

A CPU's speed is determined by Bus speed and CPU multiplier. IIRC, Sandybridge CPUs have 100mhz bus speed, so a 3.3Gghz proc is 100mhz x 33 multiplier. An unlocked CPU (designated by the K's) means that you can change that multiplier to larger numbers, thereby increasing the speed of the proc. The H67 motherboards limit your ability to mess with the multiplier and voltage, which would nullify the benefits of getting an unlocked processor. The P67 motherboards allow you to mess with that stuff, so if you go for a K processor, you want a P67 motherboard.

cool, thanks.

i'm looking at micro atx and there's not a whole lot of options for p67 boards apparently. but i found this really cheap intel one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121512 (not actually buying from newegg, i'm in switzerland, but prices are similar). any good?

 

[nexen]

It makes perfect sense. Let's take an (extreme) example.

[CHART]

Let's say we're upgrading from a 5870. We're considering the GTX 570 and GTX 580.

The GTX 570 offers a 10% improvement over the 5870 for $350. That's 35$/%.
The GTX 580 offers a 26% improvement over the 5870 for $500. That's 19$/%.

Hence, in terms of relative performance gain, the GTX 580 would be a far better value.

I'm going to regret asking this, but how did you make that chart?

 

[Wallach]

It makes perfect sense. Let's take an (extreme) example.

Let's say we're upgrading from a 5870. We're considering the GTX 570 and GTX 580.

The GTX 570 offers a 10% improvement over the 5870 for $350. That's 35$/%.
The GTX 580 offers a 26% improvement over the 5870 for $500. That's 19$/%.

Hence, in terms of relative performance gain, the GTX 580 would be a far better value.

What I'm saying is, there's hand-waving involved because the value difference is coming out of costs you've already sunk (whatever you're upgrading from). It doesn't just magically go away.

 

[opticalmace]

I'm going to regret asking this, but how did you make that chart?

It's from either anandtech or tom's hardware, I forget which. I think Tom's?

What I'm saying is, there's hand-waving involved because the value difference is coming out of costs you've already sunk (whatever you're upgrading from). It doesn't just magically go away.

Well if you already have the card it's already been paid for. The counter-argument I think would be to include how much you could get for your current card if you sold it.

 

[Corky]

It's from either anandtech or tom's hardware, I forget which. I think Tom's?

anand

edit : well, it was a 50/50 shoot and god damn I took it.

 

[·feist·]

I'm going to regret asking this, but how did you make that chart?

It's from techPowerUp.

 

[scy]

So I see this monitor mentioned on a prior page: HP ZR24w 24-inch S-IPS LCD Monitor (~$400).

Anything else around the price range worth considering? Stepping down from my comfy couch and back to a desk in the next month or so so I'm looking for a damn good monitor to make me not cry myself to sleep at night. 24"-27" ideally, assuming I don't just go out and pick up another 6950 and go all out with some tri-monitor setup.

On that note, kind of disappointed that my 6950 is a hair too long in my case (BitFenix Shinobi); it's about half an inch long enough to be encroaching on the HDD bays. Thankfully, I only have 3 storage drives so, ideally, even 2 cards wouldn't cause any problems but it's a bit of a bummer.

 

[Angst]

If I buy this:

will I be able to use that on my PC? Or do I need extra cables or something?

 

[mkenyon]

Is that the wireless one? Even the wireless ones don't work with the USB cable. Gotta get a dongle if you want a wireless controller.

 

[·feist·]

cool, thanks.

i'm looking at micro atx and there's not a whole lot of options for p67 boards apparently. but i found this really cheap intel one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121512 (not actually buying from newegg, i'm in switzerland, but prices are similar). any good?

No.

For a decent mATX board with overclocking ability, you should be looking at something like this ASUS P8P67-M PRO (REV 3.0). Yes, the Pro version.

P67 choices in small form factors are VERY limited. You can also try searching for mATX options with the newer Intel Z68 chipset.

Here are a few Z68s, for instance:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=z68+matx&x=0&y=0

 

[Angst]

Is that the wireless one? Even the wireless ones don't work with the USB cable. Gotta get a dongle if you want a wireless controller.

Yeah, that's the wireless one. Wired is cheaper but nowhere to be found here in Norway AFAIK.

Guess I'll have to go with a Logitech Controller instead. There is some wrapper tool so I'll be able to use it in 360 controller only games right?

 

[Izayoi]

I highly recommend NOT getting SLI, unless you're willing to deal with the issues. Even though a GTX 580 is slower, I would still always get it over 2x GTX 460.

I've never used SLI in the past, but I intend to sometime down the line. What kind of issues are we talking about, exactly?

 

[mkenyon]

I've never used SLI in the past, but I intend to sometime down the line. What kind of issues are we talking about, exactly?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26715356&postcount=10527

Basically you have to hope that its working in the first place, which can be a pain. Then, you have to hope that X-fire/SLI drivers are out for whatever game you're playing. In some instances, you actually need to disable it as it can lead to degraded performance. All those horrible thing console gamers like to say about PC is very true when it comes to x-fire and SLI.

 

[jarosh]

No.

For a decent mATX board with overclocking ability, you should be looking at something like this ASUS P8P67-M PRO (REV 3.0). Yes, the Pro version.

P67 choices in small form factors are VERY limited. You can also try searching for mATX options with the newer Intel Z68 chipset.

Here are a few Z68s, for instance:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=z68+matx&x=0&y=0

i could get that one. but the pro one is just sli, why bother? and what makes that intel one so bad? just curious. i'm honestly not sure if i'm ever gonna overclock the cpu anyway...

 

[Izayoi]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26715356&postcount=10527

Basically you have to hope that its working in the first place, which can be a pain. Then, you have to hope that X-fire/SLI drivers are out for whatever game you're playing. In some instances, you actually need to disable it as it can lead to degraded performance. All those horrible thing console gamers like to say about PC is very true when it comes to x-fire and SLI.

Ah, well none of that bothers me. I've been a PC gamer for almost two decades now so technical issues aren't really a huge deal to me, as long as it's not something horrible like cooking my motherboard/other components.

Oh yeah, I asked earlier but never got an answer; how does one update UEFI? I downloaded the .ROM from ASUS' site, but I don't know what I should be doing with it. There are zero instructions on their website and Google turns up nothing.

 

[mkenyon]

Yeah, that's the wireless one. Wired is cheaper but nowhere to be found here in Norway AFAIK.

Guess I'll have to go with a Logitech Controller instead. There is some wrapper tool so I'll be able to use it in 360 controller only games right?

They're super cheap used here in the states. Want me to ship you one?

Ah, well none of that bothers me. I've been a PC gamer for almost two decades now so technical issues aren't really a huge deal to me, as long as it's not something horrible like cooking my motherboard/other components.

Oh yeah, I asked earlier but never got an answer; how does one update UEFI? I downloaded the .ROM from ASUS' site, but I don't know what I should be doing with it. There are zero instructions on their website and Google turns up nothing.

Check in your BIOS. Probably put it on a thumbdrive, go into BIOS and select the update option.