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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 2. Haswell = #IntelnoTIM, but free online. READ THE OP.
- Thread starter Hazaro
- Start date
- Status
Need some more info.
1) Ambient temps.
2) Run it at load - something like Prime 95 on Small FFT, leave it for ~10 mins and see what temps are.
3) Current OC settings on 3570K
I will say, those idle temps do seem high.
Also, what kind of GPUs? Reference cooler or are they the giant heatsink + multiple fan types?
Okay. I took the plunge.
In addition to my GTX 770, I've ordered the following:
Motherboard: ASUS Maximus V FORMULA LGA 1155
Processor: Intel Core i7-3770K Quad-Core 3.5
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8)
Cooler: Noctua 6 Dual Heatpipe
I was on the fence of Ivy Bridge vs. Haswell, but from my reading there's no real benefit of going Haswell at this point for gaming. I am planning on overclocking as well, and it sounds like this cpu has serious overclocking potential.
In addition to my GTX 770, I've ordered the following:
Motherboard: ASUS Maximus V FORMULA LGA 1155
Processor: Intel Core i7-3770K Quad-Core 3.5
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8)
Cooler: Noctua 6 Dual Heatpipe
I was on the fence of Ivy Bridge vs. Haswell, but from my reading there's no real benefit of going Haswell at this point for gaming. I am planning on overclocking as well, and it sounds like this cpu has serious overclocking potential.
Nice! You should be good to go with that CPU for overclocking. What model 770 did you order? I've got a 770 and I'm really loving it.
Like others said: remount the cooler. Apply the thermal paste as described in the OP. Haswell doesn´t run all that hot until you increase the vCore beyond 1.2V, so max temp should be about 60°C at stock speeds with that cooler.
I've been OCing for a bit this weekend and I think I've found the max stable OC for the 4670k. The trick was rasing the VRIN to 2.05V which is an input voltage the FVIR (integrated voltage regulator) seemed to like.
Pretty satisfied with this, and I'll be moving on the maxing out the cache speed (uncore) now.
EVGA GeForce GTX770 SuperClocked
I was concerned since Gigabyte has that 4Gb model, but I run max of 1080p, so I think I will be okay.
4.8?! D:
So I sit about 3 meters from my TV when I game on my PC. I love it, but I do miss talking and communicating when I play online so I am looking for a mic that will fit the bill.
I assume I will most likely need to get an extender for the cord of the mic or get a wireless one, but I'd rather not go high in price so I would prefer the cord method.
Is there a mic that I could have in one ear and hear voice only and talk to people online that isn't a cheap piece of shit?
I can use the TV audio for voice and reply in the mic, but sometimes with the game sounds it makes it difficult to hear. Explosive action and all lol.
I assume I will most likely need to get an extender for the cord of the mic or get a wireless one, but I'd rather not go high in price so I would prefer the cord method.
Is there a mic that I could have in one ear and hear voice only and talk to people online that isn't a cheap piece of shit?
I can use the TV audio for voice and reply in the mic, but sometimes with the game sounds it makes it difficult to hear. Explosive action and all lol.
That's a good choice. I grabbed the Gigabyte 4GB myself just in case games start using more VRAM as we transition into the next gen. Nonetheless, 2GB is more than enough for the time being.
This is only possible with specific voice chat programs, like mumble. You can set your output device to something other than your standard audio out (which I assume in your case is HDMI). I dont know about an xbox/ps3 like device for doing this though.
If you are wondering about transmitting in-game voice and hearing in-game voice chat through that, then no.
NekoToshiro
Member
And I'm back with more questions! xfx 5970 ddr5 2gb gpu and a quad-core 2.4ghz (intel) 4 gig High speed ram (motherboard limit, can include extra 4gb high speed free fopr when you upgrade the mobo) dedicated sound card, and internal temp display. The tower is a trinity something.
So how good is this and is it worth 500 dollars?
So how good is this and is it worth 500 dollars?
Not good. The vid card is bad news, skip it.
I figured as much. Thank you. I will either save and grab a quality set or use just a mic
Aww yiss..
I´m experimenting with enabling the C-state and turboboost for a bit though, I don't want to run at this voltage 100% of the time
.NekoToshiro
Member
Awwww I thought it sounded really good
I noticed the two DVI ports which I though was weird.Why is it bad news? Alot of latency? Burn outs? Just poor processing speed?
Thank you I will avoid it!
Just wanted to post this again as the deal is still up.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112389
$80, $50 after rebate. All aluminum.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112389
$80, $50 after rebate. All aluminum.
Dang.
Thanks have done that.
-------------------------
Boom just ordered all my parts, had to do it in 3 different purchases because my bank is not happy with me
Thanks to everyone for their great help!
Will be playing this video when building my PC so I don't at all screw anything up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCohS0guaDE
CPU: i7 3770k
MOBO: Asus P8Z77-V LK
Heatsink: CoolerMaster 212 EVO
Power: XFX P1-550S-XXB9 Core Edition
CASE: BitFenix Shinobi
RAM: Corsair Vengeance Black 2x8GB
GPU: GTX 760 4GB
HDD: WD Blue 1TB
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB
DRIVE: ASUS DRW-24B1ST
Will be trying to install windows 7 off my USB stick. Hopefully that will work.
Thanks have done that.
-------------------------
Boom just ordered all my parts, had to do it in 3 different purchases because my bank is not happy with me
Thanks to everyone for their great help!
Will be playing this video when building my PC so I don't at all screw anything up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCohS0guaDE
CPU: i7 3770k
MOBO: Asus P8Z77-V LK
Heatsink: CoolerMaster 212 EVO
Power: XFX P1-550S-XXB9 Core Edition
CASE: BitFenix Shinobi
RAM: Corsair Vengeance Black 2x8GB
GPU: GTX 760 4GB
HDD: WD Blue 1TB
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB
DRIVE: ASUS DRW-24B1ST
Will be trying to install windows 7 off my USB stick. Hopefully that will work.
It will work grand, faster than using a disc too. Best way to do an install.
Thanks have done that.
-------------------------
Boom just ordered all my parts, had to do it in 3 different purchases because my bank is not happy with me
Thanks to everyone for their great help!
Will be playing this video when building my PC so I don't at all screw anything up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCohS0guaDE
CPU: i7 3770k
MOBO: Asus P8Z77-V LK
Heatsink: CoolerMaster 212 EVO
Power: XFX P1-550S-XXB9 Core Edition
CASE: BitFenix Shinobi
RAM: Corsair Vengeance Black 2x8GB
GPU: GTX 760 4GB
HDD: WD Blue 1TB
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB
DRIVE: ASUS DRW-24B1ST
Will be trying to install windows 7 off my USB stick. Hopefully that will work.
Don't do thermal paste the way the guy is doing it in that video. I just skipped through the video. Was he using a flat headed screwdriver to spread the paste? I can't get the video to load. Just place a pea sized bit in the middle of the CPU. No need to spread it, the heatsink will do that for you.
Oh and post if you need help!
Best case I've ever owned. No lie.
You sure? Not the screwdriver part but about spreading the paste. He mentioned why that isn't a good idea, and this guy has literally built tens of thousands of PCs...
Thanks for the future help which I am sure I will need! Especially with the SSD.
You sure? Not the screwdriver part but about spreading the paste. He mentioned why that isn't a good idea...
Thanks for the future help which I am sure I will need! Especially with the SSD.
I've never had heat issues with my rigs and I just put a pea sized dot and press down with the heatsink
Piercedveil
Member
What's a good temp for an idle 3570k and a good temp while running Prime95 for a few hours? I think I'm going to try to overclock to ~4.2 ghz. Checked google but I couldn't find anything too solid, plus I figured you guys would give a better answer.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
Ok, its time, im finally buying the Prodigy system i wanted. I know everything that i want (mostly), but for a graphics card im umming and arring.
It has to be nvidia, and it has to have a minimum of 2GB vram (nvidia still seem to skimp on this while amd kind of go nuts). My budget is £250 max (unless something super special comes up).
I just cant decide what to pick ... GTX 760 vs 670/660Ti ? What say gaf, what would you choose ?
It has to be nvidia, and it has to have a minimum of 2GB vram (nvidia still seem to skimp on this while amd kind of go nuts). My budget is £250 max (unless something super special comes up).
I just cant decide what to pick ... GTX 760 vs 670/660Ti ? What say gaf, what would you choose ?
I am part of those who use an old credit card in order to spread it, and I always heard that it was needed in order get to a homogeneous and thin layer of paste.
Personally I find that it makes sense and it costs nothing to do it, it's easy.
It's like this.
Spreading the paste yourself has a higher chance of giving you a better mount, if done properly. It also has a higher chance of giving you a really crappy mount if done improperly (as in too much TIM).
The pea method will have the same results no matter who does it, and the results are good enough.
Also, you don't want a homogeneous layer of paste, and that will actually never happen. The idea of TIM is to fill in the gaps where metal on metal contact isn't possible. Ultimately, if you could have direct metal to metal over every inch, that would be the preferred contact.
Each heatsink is designed a specific way. They have bows in the actual block as when heat is applied, it will actually straigten out. How much this straightens, and how large the bow is will have different results based upon what type of CPU you have. Sandy/Ivy/Haswell like blocks with really small bows with little flex. 1366/2011 like really large bows with high flex.
The pea method leaves it up to the heatsink to determine where the paste is spread, and you'll have different results based upon how that heatsink was mounted and the design of the heatsink. But ultimately, it's the best way to eliminate variables if you aren't super good at spreading TIM.
Spreading the paste yourself has a higher chance of giving you a better mount, if done properly. It also has a higher chance of giving you a really crappy mount if done improperly (as in too much TIM).
The pea method will have the same results no matter who does it, and the results are good enough.
Also, you don't want a homogeneous layer of paste, and that will actually never happen. The idea of TIM is to fill in the gaps where metal on metal contact isn't possible. Ultimately, if you could have direct metal to metal over every inch, that would be the preferred contact.
Each heatsink is designed a specific way. They have bows in the actual block as when heat is applied, it will actually straigten out. How much this straightens, and how large the bow is will have different results based upon what type of CPU you have. Sandy/Ivy/Haswell like blocks with really small bows with little flex. 1366/2011 like really large bows with high flex.
The pea method leaves it up to the heatsink to determine where the paste is spread, and you'll have different results based upon how that heatsink was mounted and the design of the heatsink. But ultimately, it's the best way to eliminate variables if you aren't super good at spreading TIM.
Future PhaZe
Member
Haven't overlocked the CPU or GPU's yet.
Two EVGA Gtx 680's. One's superclocked (primary card) and the other isn't, the former with two fans the latter with one.
I'm realizing that the fan placement may not have been ideal for proper airflow. I won't remount but I'll move the fans around a bit and see what happens.
For an Arc Midi, with reference coolers you will want:
Front intake
Bottom (next to PSU) or side intake
Rear exhaust where the radiator is.
If you have another Fan, add another intake to the front or bottom.
If your rear radiator is intaking, it's sucking in GPU+PSU hot exhaust. You want to set up your radiator as exhaust, as the temp inside of the case will be much lower than the temp directly behind the case.
Front intake
Bottom (next to PSU) or side intake
Rear exhaust where the radiator is.
If you have another Fan, add another intake to the front or bottom.
If your rear radiator is intaking, it's sucking in GPU+PSU hot exhaust. You want to set up your radiator as exhaust, as the temp inside of the case will be much lower than the temp directly behind the case.
lostsupper
Banned
If you play with a gamepad, the wired 360 controller pairs with the wired 360 headset perfectly. I use it on Mumble and Steam -chat with no issues.
Fair enough. Seems pea sized is the way too go for me. Hey, if it works for toothpaste who am I to argue?
OK, cool. Also I'd like to take the time to thank you very much for your very informative parts list and advice that you've provided, I'm really happy with what I've ended up with so far and I'm looking forward to getting some serious gaming done on it
NP!OK, cool. Also I'd like to take the time to thank you very much for your very informative parts list and advice that you've provided, I'm really happy with what I've ended up with so far and I'm looking forward to getting some serious gaming done on it
I love this hobby, and I love to help
AFAIK you can only change it in the BIOS.
This is correct.
1333 is the default speed for all memory. Anything past that is an overclock. When you buy memory, it doesn't just run at that rated speed. It simply means that it was tested to successfully run at that speed.
You would need to change the BIOS settings to XMP Profile to have it run at the rated speeds.
Solid, thanks!
That is only the default max speed for some CPU memory controllers.
The default speed for the RAM can be higher than that.
So, for the past couple of weeks I've been lurking this thread like hell and I think I'm pretty much done looking around and am about to set the order.
Just got two questions left, hopefully I don't need more.
First, I'm getting this response on part picker:"MSI Z87-G45 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Motherboard has an onboard USB 3.0 header, but the Cooler Master HAF 922 ATX Mid Tower Case does not have front panel USB 3.0 ports."
This is the motherboard they are taking about
This is the case.
So what does this mean?
You can see two USB 3.0 slots on the case, are they compatible?
Was it referencing something else? how will this effect me?
Second is about the motherboard, it is MSI and notes the MSI exclusive features like VGA boost, are these features just something only the mother board does or is it something that goes only with the MSI GPUs?
Do these features work with the Gigabyte GPU I'm getting?
Is it not worth the extra cash if I don't have the MSI GPU?
Just got two questions left, hopefully I don't need more.
First, I'm getting this response on part picker:"MSI Z87-G45 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Motherboard has an onboard USB 3.0 header, but the Cooler Master HAF 922 ATX Mid Tower Case does not have front panel USB 3.0 ports."
This is the motherboard they are taking about
This is the case.
So what does this mean?
You can see two USB 3.0 slots on the case, are they compatible?
Was it referencing something else? how will this effect me?
Second is about the motherboard, it is MSI and notes the MSI exclusive features like VGA boost, are these features just something only the mother board does or is it something that goes only with the MSI GPUs?
Do these features work with the Gigabyte GPU I'm getting?
Is it not worth the extra cash if I don't have the MSI GPU?
These two things can't be separated though. RAM is only as fast as the controller says it is. Even 2400MHz RAM might not run at 2400MHz on different setups.
Hi all,
I'd like to upgrade a few bits and pieces of kit in my 4 year old Dell (yes, yes, I know...) but I'm not sure where to begin. I'm not afraid of actually fitting bits of the computer as I used to do it all the time with my dad when I was younger, but I don't really keep up with tech stuff so I don't know which bits I HAVE to upgrade and so forth - and most of the time the current kit suits me just fine.
Current specs - Core 2 Quad Q8300 2/5Ghz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 1GB Geforce GT220, Inspiron 545 Mini Tower, 640GB HDD (no interest in replacing this)
Budget - UK, looking to spend at most about £500
Main Use - general usage really but it would be good if I could play relatively recent games at decent settings - I don't need to future-proof, but it would be nice to play the last Settlers game without it juddering away, or League of Legends in the summer without the computer resetting itself every 15 minutes due to overheating...
Monitor Resolution: 1600x900, and not planning to replace it as I don't have the space
List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: 30 FPS is acceptable - PCSX2 I guess is a priority but otherwise nothing specific. Fancy stuff isn't important to me.
Looking to reuse any parts?: Hard drive, monitor, and as much of anything else as possible
When will you build?: Do you have a deadline? - yes, I want to do this in the next week or two if possible.
Will you be overclocking?: absolutely not
Probably not the most interesting stats to help with, but it would be great if someone could give me some pointers. I've been a PC gamer for years, but I tend towards point and click adventures and 2D games so I'm not much of a hardware beast
I'd like to upgrade a few bits and pieces of kit in my 4 year old Dell (yes, yes, I know...) but I'm not sure where to begin. I'm not afraid of actually fitting bits of the computer as I used to do it all the time with my dad when I was younger, but I don't really keep up with tech stuff so I don't know which bits I HAVE to upgrade and so forth - and most of the time the current kit suits me just fine.
Current specs - Core 2 Quad Q8300 2/5Ghz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 1GB Geforce GT220, Inspiron 545 Mini Tower, 640GB HDD (no interest in replacing this)
Budget - UK, looking to spend at most about £500
Main Use - general usage really but it would be good if I could play relatively recent games at decent settings - I don't need to future-proof, but it would be nice to play the last Settlers game without it juddering away, or League of Legends in the summer without the computer resetting itself every 15 minutes due to overheating...
Monitor Resolution: 1600x900, and not planning to replace it as I don't have the space
List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: 30 FPS is acceptable - PCSX2 I guess is a priority but otherwise nothing specific. Fancy stuff isn't important to me.
Looking to reuse any parts?: Hard drive, monitor, and as much of anything else as possible
When will you build?: Do you have a deadline? - yes, I want to do this in the next week or two if possible.
Will you be overclocking?: absolutely not
Probably not the most interesting stats to help with, but it would be great if someone could give me some pointers. I've been a PC gamer for years, but I tend towards point and click adventures and 2D games so I'm not much of a hardware beast
Not much you can reuse from something like that. Might not even want to reuse the HDD as a main if it is very old.Hi all,
I'd like to upgrade a few bits and pieces of kit in my 4 year old Dell (yes, yes, I know...) but I'm not sure where to begin. I'm not afraid of actually fitting bits of the computer as I used to do it all the time with my dad when I was younger, but I don't really keep up with tech stuff so I don't know which bits I HAVE to upgrade and so forth - and most of the time the current kit suits me just fine.
Current specs - Core 2 Quad Q8300 2/5Ghz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 1GB Geforce GT220, Inspiron 545 Mini Tower, 640GB HDD (no interest in replacing this)
Budget - UK, looking to spend at most about £500
Main Use - general usage really but it would be good if I could play relatively recent games at decent settings - I don't need to future-proof, but it would be nice to play the last Settlers game without it juddering away, or League of Legends in the summer without the computer resetting itself every 15 minutes due to overheating...
Monitor Resolution: 1600x900, and not planning to replace it as I don't have the space
List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: 30 FPS is acceptable - PCSX2 I guess is a priority but otherwise nothing specific. Fancy stuff isn't important to me.
Looking to reuse any parts?: Hard drive, monitor, and as much of anything else as possible
When will you build?: Do you have a deadline? - yes, I want to do this in the next week or two if possible.
Will you be overclocking?: absolutely not
Probably not the most interesting stats to help with, but it would be great if someone could give me some pointers. I've been a PC gamer for years, but I tend towards point and click adventures and 2D games so I'm not much of a hardware beast
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks
CPU: Intel Core i5-3350P 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor (£139.38 @ Scan.co.uk)
Motherboard: MSI B75MA-P45 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£50.00 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£62.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£49.32 @ Scan.co.uk)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 650 Ti 1GB Video Card (£93.50 @ Ebuyer)
Case: BitFenix Shinobi ATX Mid Tower Case (£49.90 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£49.86 @ Scan.co.uk)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer
Total: £494.95
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-07-29 23:32 BST+0100)
You can save a bit of money if are going to reuse the HDD, plus you can remove the DVD drive and just use digital downloads plus USB to install OS. Drop the CPU down to a 3220 to save a bit more.
Looks good, bar I'd swap the RAM to this http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007OTFE24/ and drop the DVD drive which might just be enough for a 650 Ti Boost.
£520 would bring this build in if we re-use the HDD
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks
CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£161.99 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LK ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£105.96 @ Dabs)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£52.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB Video Card (£130.00 @ Ebuyer)
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (White) ATX Mid Tower Case (£34.74 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: XFX 450W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£34.99 @ Maplin Electronics)
Total: £520.67
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-07-29 23:43 BST+0100)
Hi all,
I'd like to upgrade a few bits and pieces of kit in my 4 year old Dell (yes, yes, I know...) but I'm not sure where to begin. I'm not afraid of actually fitting bits of the computer as I used to do it all the time with my dad when I was younger, but I don't really keep up with tech stuff so I don't know which bits I HAVE to upgrade and so forth - and most of the time the current kit suits me just fine.
Current specs - Core 2 Quad Q8300 2/5Ghz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 1GB Geforce GT220, Inspiron 545 Mini Tower, 640GB HDD (no interest in replacing this)
Budget - UK, looking to spend at most about £500
Main Use - general usage really but it would be good if I could play relatively recent games at decent settings - I don't need to future-proof, but it would be nice to play the last Settlers game without it juddering away, or League of Legends in the summer without the computer resetting itself every 15 minutes due to overheating...
Monitor Resolution: 1600x900, and not planning to replace it as I don't have the space
List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: 30 FPS is acceptable - PCSX2 I guess is a priority but otherwise nothing specific. Fancy stuff isn't important to me.
Looking to reuse any parts?: Hard drive, monitor, and as much of anything else as possible
When will you build?: Do you have a deadline? - yes, I want to do this in the next week or two if possible.
Will you be overclocking?: absolutely not
Probably not the most interesting stats to help with, but it would be great if someone could give me some pointers. I've been a PC gamer for years, but I tend towards point and click adventures and 2D games so I'm not much of a hardware beast
If you're looking to emulate overclocking is extremely advantageous
Yes they can, the JEDEC DDR3 standard sets standard clockspeeds that DIMMs carry in their SPD chip (up to DDR3 2133)
Just because Intel and AMD do not support the full spec does not mean the DIMMs are overclocked, just the memory controller.
Thanks for the suggestion - that looks great. Presumably I can just re-use the Bluray drive from my current machine? It's a shame that there isn't really anything re-usable in the current machine but I guess that's what I get for buying pre-made and not upgrading regularly.
kharma45 said:
Thanks for your tips as well - this is really helpful!
Hmmm. Will I be okay running PCSX2 in a window then? My current machine can handle most PS2 titles at native resolution as is, so I'd assume I could just run in a higher res window... maybe that's defeating the point of the exercise but I'm not the most hardcore of PC users
Thanks for the suggestion - that looks great. Presumably I can just re-use the Bluray drive from my current machine? It's a shame that there isn't really anything re-usable in the current machine but I guess that's what I get for buyin pre-made and not upgrading regularly.
Thanks for your tips as well - this is really helpful!
Hmmm. Will I be okay running PCSX2 in a window then? My current machine can handle most PS2 titles at native resolution as is, so I'd assume I could just run in a higher res window... maybe that's defeating the point of the exercise but I'm not the most hardcore of PC users
I'd be surprised if you couldn't use that BR drive again, presumably it'll just be a standard SATA drive. It'd run in a window fine, it'd also be able to run it at the native res of your monitor as well perfectly well. The build I've posted for you above takes you £20 over budget but it's a nice solid machine. You won't get any massive overclocks out of it (a £22 investment in a Hyper 212 would let you get good ones) but the stock cooler is good for around 4GHz or so, and it's literally a matter of changing two values in your BIOS. It's extremely easy and safe to do.
A Haswell rig is also even better again for emulation but you'll end up spending more, would bump up my rig that I specced to £528 and I hate taking people past their budget.
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