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[Eraser_Arcade]

I’ve just run 3dMark for the first time, and I just wanted to know if these scores seem about average for a stock 7970 GHZ Vapor-X?

 

[kharma45]

This look good? I'm gonna push the trigger but it's hard to spend so much on one go. I already have a GTX 660 and a 530 W PSU.

The CPU + mobo might be the only thing. AMD isn't as strong as Intel per thread and at present games generally run better with Intel.

Ok yea thats most likely it. I guess when I ordered they'd just ran out or something cuz thats a new date.

Thats fine. Should arrive roughly around the same time as everything else.

That's always been the date for them, they're getting around 500 in then or so.

 

[SenatorBot]

I can't afford intel really, I was looking at the i3 2120 but people say the FX 6300 is better in gaming performance than it. Also how overclockable it is.

 

[kharma45]

An i3 3220 is an extra £10. It depends on the game, some newer stuff like Crysis 3, FC3 and Tomb Raider the FX 6300 performs better but on a lot of other stuff you'll find the i3 does better.

Going into the future the 6300 could well be the better buy but that's just me guesstimating, at present the i3 is the better buy and you can offset the increased processor price as the sort of motherboard you'd be looking at for it would be cheaper.

 

[Carica Papaya]

So I'm looking to buy my first gaming desktop (My current computer is a GTX 560m Asus laptop, and I feel I'm due for an upgrade) and have some questions about my setup:

CPU: Intel 4670k
MB: MSI Z87 GD65
RAM: Corsair 4x4 16GB 1600MHz
GPU: EVGA GTX 780 superclocked
SSD: Samsung 840 250GB
HDD: WD Green 2TB
PSU: Antec bp550 550W
Case: Bitfenix Ghost
DVD: Asus DRW-24B1ST

OS: Windows 8

Monitor: Asus VG248QE
Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance k70

Price: ~$2200 on amazon


Now, how is this setup? Are there better MB's within the $200 price range? Is a 550W PSU sufficient or should I go with the 650W seasonic (I don't think I'll go for a dual card setup anytime soon)? Are all internal cables bundled with their respective parts?

Should I get the EVO heatsink? I'm planning on overclocking the 4670k to somewhere in the lower 4 GHz range, and a friend told me that the stock one should be enough. Also will I need to buy thermal paste in either case?

Lastly, how different are W7 and W8 + Start8 really? I'm particularly concerned about customization and window and folder behavior.

 

[kharma45]

So I'm looking to buy my first gaming desktop (My current computer is a GTX 560m Asus laptop, and I feel I'm due for an upgrade) and have some questions about my setup:

CPU: Intel 4670k
MB: MSI Z87 GD65
RAM: Corsair 4x4 16GB 1600MHz
GPU: EVGA GTX 780 superclocked
SSD: Samsung 840 250GB
HDD: WD Green 2TB
PSU: Antec bp550 550W
Case: Bitfenix Ghost
DVD: Asus DRW-24B1ST

OS: Windows 8

Monitor: Asus VG248QE
Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance k70

Price: ~$2200 on amazon


Now, how is this setup? Are there better MB's within the $200 price range? Is a 550W PSU sufficient or should I go with the 650W seasonic (I don't think I'll go for a dual card setup anytime soon)? Are all internal cables bundled with their respective parts?

Should I get the EVO heatsink? I'm planning on overclocking the 4670k to somewhere in the lower 4 GHz range, and a friend told me that the stock one should be enough. Also will I need to buy thermal paste in either case?

Lastly, how different are W7 and W8 + Start8 really? I'm particularly concerned about customization and window and folder behavior.

Drop the motherboard to the G45 Gaming. That PSU is fine, stick with it. Are you just gaming with the PC? If so you don't need 16GB of RAM. WD Green's aren't great HDDs. With the 4670K you're going realistically only hit 4.2GHz or so, Haswell doesn't achieve the clock speeds that SB and IB can without a delid and a lot of luck.

Windows 8 is great, folder behaviour is the same as 7 was. It's a great OS.

 

[Mutagenic]

So I'm looking to buy my first gaming desktop (My current computer is a GTX 560m Asus laptop, and I feel I'm due for an upgrade) and have some questions about my setup:

CPU: Intel 4670k
MB: MSI Z87 GD65
RAM: Corsair 4x4 16GB 1600MHz
GPU: EVGA GTX 780 superclocked
SSD: Samsung 840 250GB
HDD: WD Green 2TB
PSU: Antec bp550 550W
Case: Bitfenix Ghost
DVD: Asus DRW-24B1ST

OS: Windows 8

Monitor: Asus VG248QE
Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance k70

Price: ~$2200 on amazon


Now, how is this setup? Are there better MB's within the $200 price range? Is a 550W PSU sufficient or should I go with the 650W seasonic (I don't think I'll go for a dual card setup anytime soon)? Are all internal cables bundled with their respective parts?

Should I get the EVO heatsink? I'm planning on overclocking the 4670k to somewhere in the lower 4 GHz range, and a friend told me that the stock one should be enough. Also will I need to buy thermal paste in either case?

Lastly, how different are W7 and W8 + Start8 really? I'm particularly concerned about customization and window and folder behavior.

I went with a similar build. I have it OC'ed to 4GHz solid with an MSI M-Power Z87 board and an Evo 212 heatsink (the thermal paste does come with it). I even have that same monitor and I love it. That PSU should be plenty. I went with a 760GTX 4GB though and it's been great.

 

[Carica Papaya]

Drop the motherboard to the G45 Gaming. That PSU is fine, stick with it. Are you just gaming with the PC? If so you don't need 16GB of RAM. WD Green's aren't great HDDs. With the 4670K you're going realistically only hit 4.2GHz or so, Haswell doesn't achieve the clock speeds that SB and IB can without a delid and a lot of luck.

Windows 8 is great, folder behaviour is the same as 7 was. It's a great OS.

Great! Dropped the MB to G45 and the RAM to 2x4GB. Thanks for the quick reply.

Edit: Thank you, Danj and Mutagenic, I think I'll go for the EVO too.

 

[Danj]

Should I get the EVO heatsink? I'm planning on overclocking the 4670k to somewhere in the lower 4 GHz range, and a friend told me that the stock one should be enough. Also will I need to buy thermal paste in either case?

I have the EVO, it's great. CPU temp is like 36C at idle. It comes with its own thermal paste so you only need to buy your own if you want to use some special type.

 

[Jeb]

Okay guys, last time I was set to order I got a bit busy and never got around to it.
Since then I've looked around a bit and noticed that Haswell cards get overly hot and can't clock past 4.2 Ghz while Ive Bridge(or was that Sandy?) can overclock to 4.5Ghz, does that make the Ivy(or was it Sandy?) stronger than the Haswells?
The difference in price isn't much so I don't feel as if it matters.
So will the 3570k be better than the 4670k in the long run thanks to overclock?

 

[CMDBob]

Urgh, anyone here still having trouble with nvidia drivers? I go to install the latest drivers and I think it might have killed my card, as I get no video output on it. Currently on my old GTX460, gonna get the 314.22 drivers back installed (as I know for a fact they work) and then try the other card. Could have just been a video out issue, but still, don't want to take any chances.

 

[kharma45]

Okay guys, last time I was set to order I got a bit busy and never got around to it.
Since then I've looked around a bit and noticed that Haswell cards get overly hot and can't clock past 4.2 Ghz while Ive Bridge(or was that Sandy?) can overclock to 4.5Ghz, does that make the Ivy(or was it Sandy?) stronger than the Haswells?
The difference in price isn't much so I don't feel as if it matters.
So will the 3570k be better than the 4670k in the long run thanks to overclock?

The higher overclocks simply help to negate the 5-10% performance boost per clock that Haswell has. If you are into emulation then Haswell is a lot better but if you're not in to that then just get whatever is best value for money, which usually is IB.

 

[GHG]

An i3 3220 is an extra £10. It depends on the game, some newer stuff like Crysis 3, FC3 and Tomb Raider the FX 6300 performs better but on a lot of other stuff you'll find the i3 does better.

Going into the future the 6300 could well be the better buy but that's just me guesstimating, at present the i3 is the better buy and you can offset the increased processor price as the sort of motherboard you'd be looking at for it would be cheaper.

I'd get the AMD over an i3 really... The fact that almost all newer games perform better on the 6300 is a sign of things to come. The i3 is a dual core processor, I think its madness in this day an age to build a PC around a dual core. Games are becoming more GPU reliant anyway but a lot of games coming out this and next year will start requiring quad core and above as devs start making their game & engines more multi-threaded. Also, if you are relying on hyperthreading in a multi-threaded environment the devs need to code for it in their engine (no guarantee this will happen...) and it is in no way better than actually having extra physical cores.

 

[Soodanim]

I have read that the 760 4GB is pointless because the 256bit bus isn't enough to use more than 2GB properly. Is this true? I had it in my head that it would be a card that saw me through a good few years, but if it's only worth going for the 2GB then it won't have the longevity I was hoping for.

 

[kharma45]

I'd get the AMD over an i3 really... The fact that almost all newer games perform better on the 6300 is a sign of things to come. The i3 is a dual core processor, I think its madness in this day an age to build a PC around a dual core. Games are becoming more GPU reliant anyway but a lot of games coming out this and next year will start requiring quad core and above as devs start making their game & engines more multi-threaded.

And the 6300 is really only a 3 core processor. Most benches for newer games are just FPS benches which aren't fully indicative of true performance. As well as FPS we need frame percentile ones like this. Whilst Crysis 3 performs well others do not (although these are around 18 months older or so)

I'm hoping TR do more of these tests with CPUs soon-ish with newer games, would be nice to see how CPUs are fairing now.

 

[Canis lupus]

I disassembled my Seagate Expansion and use the hdd as internal drive:

I'm left with a USB3.0 controller and enclosure, I now want to disassemble and put a WD drive in the Seagate enclosure because the WD enclosure has a USB2.0 interface. Is this possible?

 

[ElyrionX]

I've got a dual monitor setup, one 24" and one 22", running off a 560Ti. Is it possible to hook up my HDTV to my PC so that it will mirror whatever is being shown on my main 24" monitor? Sort of like broadcasting my main screen. If so, will this affect the framerate of my game?

 

[RSTEIN]

I have read that the 760 4GB is pointless because the 256bit bus isn't enough to use more than 2GB properly. Is this true? I had it in my head that it would be a card that saw me through a good few years, but if it's only worth going for the 2GB then it won't have the longevity I was hoping for.

The 770 also has a 256 bit bus so it's in the same situation. I haven't been able to find a clear cut answer to this question. Some people think it's OK, others think the cards are screwed. Some say that when we get to a point where games need 4gb on a regular basis then you're gonna want to upgrade your graphics card anyway. I went with 4gb because it was just an extra $50.

 

[TheD]

Also, if you are relying on hyperthreading in a multi-threaded environment the devs need to code for it in their engine (no guarantee this will happen...)

That is not how it works.
SMT just looks like extra hardware threads to programs (the same as having more cores).
The only thing that is done to support it (other than the program being well threaded) is to program the OS's scheduler to split the threads between the cores before trying to put threads on a core that already has one of the hardware threads used.

 

[knitoe]

I have read that the 760 4GB is pointless because the 256bit bus isn't enough to use more than 2GB properly. Is this true? I had it in my head that it would be a card that saw me through a good few years, but if it's only worth going for the 2GB then it won't have the longevity I was hoping for.

The 770 also has a 256 bit bus so it's in the same situation. I haven't been able to find a clear cut answer to this question. Some people think it's OK, others think the cards are screwed. Some say that when we get to a point where games need 4gb on a regular basis then you're gonna want to upgrade your graphics card anyway. I went with 4gb because it was just an extra $50.

Performance wise, 256 bit bus is not good enough for 1440p or higher resolution and/or with high AA. Unfortunately, using those settings are the only way to overcome most game's coded 2GB VRAM limit. But, it does greatly helps with more detail textures, draw distance and etc, even on unoptimized Skyrim user mods. Otherwise, it would be pointless for the X1 and PS4 to have 8GB on the same 256 bit bus. The first part is where the misconception about >2GB VRAM keeps repeating.

 

[Jeb]

The higher overclocks simply help to negate the 5-10% performance boost per clock that Haswell has. If you are into emulation then Haswell is a lot better but if you're not in to that then just get whatever is best value for money, which usually is IB.

Money isn't an issue at the moment, just wondering, if I can overclock IB will that beat an overclocked Haswell in the long run?

 

[Dawg]

Ok, I remember ms frame tiles were a better way to explain your fps in detail, but I'm kinda confused by those values. I'd love an 120hz screen (especially the ones where you can activate that remove blurness option)

However, there are already games where I drop under 60fps with my gtx 670 ftw / i5 3570k. I play a lot of demanding games and I don't have the money for SLI, so that's why I'm hesitant to go 120hz.

Anyone?

 

[knitoe]

Money isn't an issue at the moment, just wondering, if I can overclock IB will that beat an overclocked Haswell in the long run?

If you can OC high enough to overcome the Haswell 5-10% clock for clock advantage, YES.

 

[Soodanim]

Performance wise, 256 bit bus is not good enough for 1440p or higher resolution and/or with high AA. Unfortunately, using those settings are the only way to overcome most game's coded 2GB VRAM limit. But, it does greatly helps with more detail textures, draw distance and etc, even on unoptimized Skyrim mods. Otherwise, it would be pointless for the X1 and PS4 to have 8GB on the same 256 bit bus. The first part is where the misconception about >2GB VRAM keeps repeating.

So you're saying 4GB is okay? Worth going for? For the foreseeable future, I'll be sticking with 1080p, and I'm happy using FXAA instead of SSAA, for example. I just found this, which shows the VRAM usage in various games. BF3 makes me worry about the future, but seeing Crysis 3 use less VRAM than BF3 eases that somewhat.

 

[theSlacker]

Urgh, anyone here still having trouble with nvidia drivers? I go to install the latest drivers and I think it might have killed my card, as I get no video output on it. Currently on my old GTX460, gonna get the 314.22 drivers back installed (as I know for a fact they work) and then try the other card. Could have just been a video out issue, but still, don't want to take any chances.

Tried the latest release drivers yesterday on my 460 and was still having random crashes, and couldn't return from sleep. Just roll them back.

 

[Shaldome]

I have gone a little overboard and you can make do with a lot less and still have the same level of performance. One of my goals was to have it completely automated (after the initial configuration), whereby flow rate and fan speed will dynamically change depending on the internal, external and water temperature.

Nice almost the same setup, just one generation behind for me (3770k and GTX 680).
Was looking into the same CPU block as well, but still undecided about the GPU blocks.
I hope I will be able to finish choosing the parts this weekend. The choice about delidding or not can wait until I have disassembled my rig.

 

[knitoe]

So you're saying 4GB is okay? Worth going for? For the foreseeable future, I'll be sticking with 1080p, and I'm happy using FXAA instead of SSAA, for example. I just found this, which shows the VRAM usage in various games. BF3 makes me worry about the future, but seeing Crysis 3 use less VRAM than BF3 eases that somewhat.

Yes. I can only recommend 3GB or more video cards.

As I already stated, current games are coded to stay under 2GB VRAM unless forceable overcome by using >1080p res and/or higher AA. Crysis 3 does this. BF3 is a little different. The game will dynamically adjust base on your VRAM. If you use X settings and have 1GB, it will use 1GB. Using the same X settings and 2GB, it will use 2 GB and so on. Performance will be similar, but if you stop and take screenshots, you will notice the 2GB card has better texures, farther draw distance and etc. and, at some point, all the game assets fit into VRAM and higher cards won't show a difference in usage. Once nextgen consoles are out, I expect games to be coded limit to increase to 3-4GB instead of the current 2GB.

 

[Jeb]

If you can OC high enough to overcome the Haswell 5-10% clock for clock advantage, YES.

Thanks, still not writing off the Haswell, the decision is now between without overclock for a beginner PC, or having a better overclock advantage later on when I'm comfortable with my build.
Not gonna overclock for a while, I want to be comfortable with my system and make sure its running smoothly before I take the risk, so the Haswell should be better till then, but once I start overclocking, the IB should become the better choice.
How much is the difference, I hear IB can go up to 4.5Ghz while Haswell barely makes it to 4.2, how much of a difference is that? what do you recommend for a newbie such as myself?(in overclock Ghz if I decide between one of them.)

Also I hear Haswell has a USB3.0 problem, IB works with USB3.0 just fine right?

 

[j0hnny_385]

Also I hear Haswell has a USB3.0 problem, IB works with USB3.0 just fine right?

yes, but only when waking from S3 Sleep mode:

http://uk.hardware.info/news/34321/...0-bug-in-haswell-updated-with-intel-statement

AFAIK, S3 is disabled by default in most MBOs.

I don't use it personally.

 

[kennah]

I've got a dual monitor setup, one 24" and one 22", running off a 560Ti. Is it possible to hook up my HDTV to my PC so that it will mirror whatever is being shown on my main 24" monitor? Sort of like broadcasting my main screen. If so, will this affect the framerate of my game?

Yes.

No.

Anyone?

120hz provides a 'general usage' improvement similar to ssds.

And also - you don't need to hold a steady 120 frames to take advantage of the faster monitor. It'll reduce screen tearing on games that are faster than 60 frames. And also you can turn settings down from super ultra max to just 'high' to have things look roughly the same while improving framerate.

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

fFinally found someone who sells 8mm motherboard stand-offs. Hopefully that should take care of the alignment problem of my case.

And on good news, my new Asus monitor finally arrived. Had to make a very hard choice to give up IPS but I just can't say no to zero motion blur.

 

[TheSeks]

Is there any reason Mirror's Edge would still frame tear with V-sync and 16x AA turned on in-game? Probably the Nvidia controller?

Okay, there's global settings in the Nvidia controller/settings: So I guess a better question would be: Should I use those over the in-game stuff and if so how would I set the settings in game to be overrode by the graphics card settings if anything?

 

[brentech]

Yall going to make it really hard to wait for the 800s to come out for me to upgrade my 660.
Just put the system together in March, and I don't have any games pressing me to upgrade, but for some reason I just get the tingle to do so.

Really wanting to hold out for an 870 or 880. I hope I can make it, but all these posts about deals and whatnot is rough.

 

[metareferential]

120hz provides a 'general usage' improvement similar to ssds.

And also - you don't need to hold a steady 120 frames to take advantage of the faster monitor. It'll reduce screen tearing on games that are faster than 60 frames. And also you can turn settings down from super ultra max to just 'high' to have things look roughly the same while improving framerate.

And even if you struggle to hit 60 or higher fps, the drops are lighter.

There's really no downside with going 120hz.

 

[Addnan]

Yall going to make it really hard to wait for the 800s to come out for me to upgrade my 660.
Just put the system together in March, and I don't have any games pressing me to upgrade, but for some reason I just get the tingle to do so.

Really wanting to hold out for an 870 or 880. I hope I can make it, but all these posts about deals and whatnot is rough.

Unless you found a good deal on a 780 or a Titan I wouldn't bother. Sure the 670/680/770 would be a nice size leap over the 660, but not quite to justify upgrading something you bought few months ago.

 

[ElyrionX]

Yes.

No.


120hz provides a 'general usage' improvement similar to ssds.

And also - you don't need to hold a steady 120 frames to take advantage of the faster monitor. It'll reduce screen tearing on games that are faster than 60 frames. And also you can turn settings down from super ultra max to just 'high' to have things look roughly the same while improving framerate.

Umm thanks. But how do I do this?

 

[kennah]

Umm thanks. But how do I do this?

Plug it in and select duplicate displays. You will only be able to use two monitors though,

 

[bro1]

Performance wise, 256 bit bus is not good enough for 1440p or higher resolution and/or with high AA. Unfortunately, using those settings are the only way to overcome most game's coded 2GB VRAM limit. But, it does greatly helps with more detail textures, draw distance and etc, even on unoptimized Skyrim user mods. Otherwise, it would be pointless for the X1 and PS4 to have 8GB on the same 256 bit bus. The first part is where the misconception about >2GB VRAM keeps repeating.

Right now, a 4Gig GPU is not a sound investment, especially if you tend to sell your old card for a new card every generation. I was able to sell my 670 for $300 and and pick up a 770 for $375 on an Amazon sale. Selling and buying is the best way to "future proof" as you are alwasy current.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I am fantasizing about Intel's 8 core next fall. I want to upgrade my CPU and MB so badly. A 1+ year wait is going to be very painful. By then, my 2600K@4.5GHz would be over 3 years.

I don't think I have the will power to wait until next fall. I will likely pull the trigger once the GTX 880 is launched. That should be late Spring next year, right?

 

[Aranath]

Can anyone comfirm if the new 13.8 beta drivers break Downsampling GUI for AMD cards?

I only read about this a few minutes after my order went through for a new 7970GE. If I'm stuck at 1080p and can't downsample, I really have no need for the new card.

 

[brentech]

Unless you found a good deal on a 780 or a Titan I wouldn't bother. Sure the 670/680/770 would be a nice size leap over the 660, but not quite to justify upgrading something you bought few months ago.

I know, that's why it has never been my plan. I'm just saying the itch is there. I just have to keep it contained.

 

[Mad Max]

Money isn't an issue at the moment, just wondering, if I can overclock IB will that beat an overclocked Haswell in the long run?

Probably not, unless you delid the IB chip and have a very good batch. Most IB chips don't go beyond 4.5 on air and neither does haswell.

 

[mkenyon]

Probably not, unless you delid the IB chip and have a very good batch. Most IB chips don't go beyond 4.5 on air and neither does haswell.

Most Haswell chips don't go beyond 4.2 without excessive temps.

 

[Fried Food]

Does anyone know of a service I can use to compare game requirments against a build list ?(list of computer components)

 

[Thorgal]

I know, that's why it has never been my plan. I'm just saying the itch is there. I just have to keep it contained.

I know that feel.

Been going back and forth between getting a 780 4GB a TITAN or wait till the 800 series for weeks now

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

The system chews through GTA IV, BF3 and Max Payne 3 also like they are nothing (all maxed to the max max.

GTA IV without a stutter and a slightly wobbly 60 FPS. Same with MP3, but BF3 just keeps pumping at least 60.

Feels so good mayne.

 

[lostsupper]

I know that feel.

Been going back and forth between getting a 780 4GB a TITAN or wait till the 800 series for weeks now

There's a 4GB 780?

 

[mkenyon]

Nope, was a typo.

 

[Thorgal]

There's a 4GB 780?

Nope, was a typo.

Sorry .meant 3GB.

 

[zainetor]

Hi, guys I'm having problems with my intel rig. I'm getting a lot of fail boots, installation errors(this one while im trying to install windows 8 or 7 doesnt matter which one is) and black screens(when I turn it on, sometimes the screen stays black). It all started 3 months ago, after some week the mobo stopped working. Send it back to the tech support and they changed it with a new one. It worked for like a day and Now i'm getting again the same problems, the pc screen stays black when I turn it on, no bios nothing else shows up.
I dont get whats' going on, I tried swithcing every component with my other rig everything except for the mobo+cpu, since its amd) and everything works fine.
My mobo and cpu are : i5 3570k and asrock z77pro4. Hope to get some useful advice.