Those belong to two different sockets. It depends on the motherboard you choose or have.
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"I Need a New PC!" 2014 Part 1. 1080p and 60FPS is so last-gen and your 2500K is fine
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Those belong to two different sockets. It depends on the motherboard you choose or have.
CyanideFuse
Member
The motherboard is secondary issue to me; I will be buying the MB once I have chosen the CPU.
CyanideFuse
Member
Is there much difference between them both?
I will eventually buy the bits for my build; I just wish the R7 265 release date was out there. The more time to think the endless changes I seem to consider...
I'm helping a friend build a PC from old parts and some new parts. Please let me know if I've made any mistakes
CPU: i3 4130
Mobo: Asus Z87-Plus
GPU: MSI GTX 770 Gaming
HDD: 3TB Seagate Barracuda
PSU: SilverStone Strider 600w Modular
Case: Antec cheap case
OS: 8.1
I gave him the GPU, the HDD, and PSU and he bought the rest. I think we are in good shape, right? My only concern was the i3 with the Z87 mobo but they are both 1150 socket.
CPU: i3 4130
Mobo: Asus Z87-Plus
GPU: MSI GTX 770 Gaming
HDD: 3TB Seagate Barracuda
PSU: SilverStone Strider 600w Modular
Case: Antec cheap case
OS: 8.1
I gave him the GPU, the HDD, and PSU and he bought the rest. I think we are in good shape, right? My only concern was the i3 with the Z87 mobo but they are both 1150 socket.
coughlanio
Member
Finally got my build together earlier this week 
coughlanio
Member
Going Z87 was a bit pointless with the i3, could have gone with a H87 mobo and put the extra cash towards a lower end i5.
Gives the option to upgrade to a 4670K or 4770K down the line though.
coughlanio
Member
That is true, but just seems like wasted money in the time being. A lower end i5 would have been good enough for long enough, that by time he'd need to upgrade, he'd be upgrading to a new chipset anyway.
Unless you're emulating PS2 or Wii games not really. The 4440 had a distinct advantage there.
So, GAF, I've recently upgraded from this:
Asus P5Q Pro Motherboard
Corsair TwinX DDR2 4GB
Intel E8500 Core2Duo 3.16 GHz (clocked to 4.3GHz)
GTX 570
To this:
Asus ROG Maximus VI Hero Motherboard
8GB Corsair Vengeance Pro - 1866MHz
Intel Core i7 4770K (clocked to 4.3GHz)
GTX 570
I've added an SSD, "upgraded" to Windows 8, and it's a great, fast machine.
But I think that GPU is really showing it's age now. While I've gotten great gains on something like FFXIV, something like Tomb Raider has negligible difference from the old setup.
So, I was about to pull the trigger on a 780Ti. I have it in my mind that it'll seem like a generational leap from my old starting point. Would this be a reasonable expectation?
Asus P5Q Pro Motherboard
Corsair TwinX DDR2 4GB
Intel E8500 Core2Duo 3.16 GHz (clocked to 4.3GHz)
GTX 570
To this:
Asus ROG Maximus VI Hero Motherboard
8GB Corsair Vengeance Pro - 1866MHz
Intel Core i7 4770K (clocked to 4.3GHz)
GTX 570
I've added an SSD, "upgraded" to Windows 8, and it's a great, fast machine.
But I think that GPU is really showing it's age now. While I've gotten great gains on something like FFXIV, something like Tomb Raider has negligible difference from the old setup.
So, I was about to pull the trigger on a 780Ti. I have it in my mind that it'll seem like a generational leap from my old starting point. Would this be a reasonable expectation?
My thought process was that he could upgrade the CPU at some point.
SneakyStephan
Banned
this is like the mistake every new system builder makes
you almost never end up upgrading on the same socket (and if the current situation is anything to go by the i5 quad core k processors on haswell aren't going to drop in price enough in the coming years anyhow, the 2500k sure hasn't, gl finding one of those for < 90 euros - which is what he'd have to pay just to break even after buying the i3 already)
Imo if you go with a z87 mobo just pay the extra 90 -100 euros for the i5 4670k, otherwise go for the cheapest mobo you can possibly find
This is my line of thinking as well. What would you recommend?
CrocMother
Banned
This is a shamefully noobish question but I don't really understand GPUs.
I'm looking at the budget build and searching for the GTX 750ti for $150. If I just paste that into Amazon I get a flurry of results with all kinds of details like "superclock", "g-sync support", all kinds of different brands, some with zero reviews...I'm kinda lost. I had a little better luck on newegg but I like Amazon as I have Prime.
Is there a significant difference in brand? Is this a game of waiting for price drops and sales, and if so what product should I be keeping an eye on?
I'm looking at the budget build and searching for the GTX 750ti for $150. If I just paste that into Amazon I get a flurry of results with all kinds of details like "superclock", "g-sync support", all kinds of different brands, some with zero reviews...I'm kinda lost. I had a little better luck on newegg but I like Amazon as I have Prime.
Is there a significant difference in brand? Is this a game of waiting for price drops and sales, and if so what product should I be keeping an eye on?
cyen
Member
Finally got my build together earlier this week
Nice! looks so clean, beware of the jet engine
You don't say what display resolution you generally use, but I'd guess 1920x1080. When I moved from 2 x 570 in sli, I found a single 780Ti to be a significant upgrade all across the board. It should be a great improvement in every way. Heat, noise, image quality and performance will all be a lot better than a single 570.
Kinda. Some games like Battlefield and Crysis 3 would probably perform better on an i5, but the biggest gains with the 4670k and 4770k comes from the ability to overclock, but that H81 mobo can't do that. The i3 should be good enough for gaming with a GTX 660, I think the 4340 at 3.6 Ghz showed great gaming performance thanks to the high clock speed and Haswell's good IPC.
Shame we're so core obsessed that dual core is somehow a bad buy. The Core i3 will in pretty much any task equal or beat AMDs quad core CPUs. It's mostly about the cores and not the number of cores. Just look at they guy playing AC3 at 40 FPS on low with 8 cores and a Titan.
Some brands are easier to RMA, but I don't have experience with that. Anything with clock refers to how they've clocked it (look at Mhz for core and RAM, a 10% gain is usually 10% faster) and g-sync support probably means it has a display port connector which the reference card lacks. If you don't want to buy a monitor for silky smooth g-sync then you don't need that and if you just want to plop the card in and not have to worry about overclocking just go for a card that seems decent for the price. They should all run quiet and cool. The dual fan cards are so overkill on a 60W core they could probably run them spinning
LeGourmand
Member
My mom ask me to build her a new computer, she's using some 10year old one right now...
This is what i came up with... pretty sure it would do, but just want to make sure i haven't choose a part that should be avoided.
CPU: AMD A6-6400K 3.9GHz Dual-Core Processor ($67.99 @ NCIX)
Motherboard: MSI FM2-A55M-E33 Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Memory: I have set for 2x2 DDR3 somewhere so i plan on using those.
Storage: SSD KINGSTON|SV300S37A/120G R (already have that)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ NCIX)
Also any idea of when the Kaveri A8-7600 will be out for sale?
Thanks.
This is what i came up with... pretty sure it would do, but just want to make sure i haven't choose a part that should be avoided.
CPU: AMD A6-6400K 3.9GHz Dual-Core Processor ($67.99 @ NCIX)
Motherboard: MSI FM2-A55M-E33 Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Memory: I have set for 2x2 DDR3 somewhere so i plan on using those.
Storage: SSD KINGSTON|SV300S37A/120G R (already have that)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ NCIX)
Also any idea of when the Kaveri A8-7600 will be out for sale?
Thanks.
Prophet Steve
Member
Basically Nvidia and AMD offer reference cards and then other companies create their custom versions of the card with different coolers and slightly different specs.
The temperature and noise can all kind of differ per company but the difference is not very big. Although each company also has different customer support, which may be a bit more important.
And one thing to pay attention to is the VRAM amount, as some GPUs have multiple versions. They probably all have the right display connections, but you could check for that too.
You can see the VRAM difference here: 2GB vs 1 GB. They all are G-Sync compatible, don't worry about that and the superclocked means it is just higher overclocked. You can see that the speeds between those differ a bit. Ever company has it's own branding name for something like that, but it is no special feature.
The best thing is probably to go for that first option, unless someone here tells you otherwise, as far as I know, EVGAs support is good.
EDIT: Oh, I did not realize you needed a Displayport connector for GSync. So that is what it means I suppose, since it indeed does have such a connector. GSync is a new technology that your monitor also needs to support, which is unlikely and allows you to have a flexible refresh rate. You can find more about it if you want, but the card listed above supports it anyway.
What kind of case are you thinking? I have my grandma's computer in a wall mounted SFF case and she loves it.
Your mom deserves a nice small case.
coughlanio
Member
Nice! looks so clean, beware of the jet engine
I presume you mean the 290x?
It's actually not that loud, at least not as loud as people were making it out to be. Doesn't run that hot either
Yeah, it's 1920x1080. And you couldn't have helped me more, because my other option was going to be to try hunt down a matching 570 and put them in SLI, and I was worried that I'd be wasting my money on the big card when that may have given similar results. So thanks a million
Order placed. Happening intensifies.
LeGourmand
Member
I was thinking on using the big ass case she already have because there's plenty of space under the desk, but then again, a small one could maybe make her trash that ugly old desk. Any suggestion?
Not much about performance, but you can get a rather comprehensive look at the visual quality of a large variety of AA methods in this article.
Yeah, it's 1920x1080. And you couldn't have helped me more, because my other option was going to be to try hunt down a matching 570 and put them in SLI, and I was worried that I'd be wasting my money on the big card when that may have given similar results. So thanks a million
Order placed. Happening intensifies.
You don't mention your PSU. The 780 Ti is capable of sucking considerably more juice than the 570 when stressed, although the 570 was never shy at 220 watts.
If you can let us know the PSU, we should be able to advise you if it's sufficient. Nvidia say 600W minimum (this is playing it safe) and it will probably need both a 6-pin and an 8-pin PCI-E power connector.
This is pretty similar to what I got my grandma.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811208054
This looks cool too
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811322013
This Rosewill likely has a slightly better powers upply
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147098
Here's the search filter I used.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007582 600029807&IsNodeId=1&name=Yes
Basically - you're not going to be installing a graphics card or overclocking to the nines. The powersupplies in those computers are good enough for a mom machine. The Coolermaster Elite 100 that I bought 8 years ago with a 250W PSU is still going strong for my Grandma, just upgraded her to an A4 APU. Lets me play Borderlands 2 and The Witcher when I visit.
I just want to clarify that this is not exactly true in general. Performance is within ~10% on all cards with the same chip, but in some cases a specific graphics card can be very loud compared to other cards with the same chip.
But then, CrocMother was asking specifically about the 750 Ti, and I haven't heard of any of those that have noise problems. It's mostly with AMD's high-end GPUs that you have to check reviews if you care about noise.
It's 650W, so I think I should be fine. The 570 I have in there runs on two 8-pin plugs that have the last two bent away to work as 6-pins, so I have the cables at least.
Nice. All set then.
For reference, the 570 is mostly bested by the 660:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/518?vs=660
This is a comparison between 660 and 780 Ti.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1039?vs=1072
How important is a motherboard for overall performance? I bought some pretty good parts overall, ended up getting a Samsung SSD, an i3570k and a gtx 780 but i purchased a fairly cheap mobo at $79 (ASRock H77M) cause i had a budget i had already blown past so it was a corner i had to cut.
fudge, i should have done some more research but this was my first build and my head was spinning from all the new stuff i learned. thanks for the answer.
Robert7lee
Neo Member
Can a single gpu play newer games max settings at 60fps?
Tbh I'm surprised I'm not having many problems with thief so far, playing at 60fps apart for a couple of spots where there are a few hiccups. Very high shadows and textures all additional options like fxaa disabled. Considering my piss poor CPU I'm staying cautious.
Yes, depending on the card. A 670, 680, 770, 780, 780ti, and Titan can play all games on max settings with various levels of AA as long as they have a decent CPU to back them up and the game is properly optimized or a console port. AMD too has many cards that can do the same such as the 280x and above and the 7950 and above.
I don't really play the big AAA graphics hogs like Crysis, Metro, or Witcher 2, but my 7970 Matrix @ 1200MHz has been able to sustain 120fps @ 1080p with most games I play. Might turn the graphics down a smidge, but otherwise good to go.
A 760 can't?
Yes, probably. I belive it's only 10-15% slower than a 770.
Sure, in some.
It's such a silly metric because there's a huge array of games out there. Does it include things like Metro 2033 with max settings and AA? If the card is getting frame times above 16.7ms in just a handful of titles with ridiculous settings, does it no longer count?
I know it's a way for people to get a really rough idea of performance on a given card, but it's so wildly inaccurate and variable that I wish it'd stop existing as a standard question.
Robert7lee
Neo Member
The I thought of playing recent AAA games at 120fps without any issues sound like a pipe dream, call me sad but I'd rather have that than having a new car.
Btw I went for the intel 4770k 3.5 ghz processor. Getting nervous, not sure what I'll do if it doesn't improve performance.
I think you are the only poster that regulary uses the frame times as a normal metric. I totally understand your point and what it means, but for 99% of the people buying a video card, FPS is going to be there default measurement.
Also, with the advent of free synch and g synch, I see frame times becoming irrelvant in few years. Once monitors switch over to display port 2.0, I have to imagine FPS is going to be the huge rage again.
It's just a matter of money and time. I've upgraded my system quite a bit over the year buy selling my stuff the second something new comes out. I had a GTX 660 in SLi and sold them for 770 when they came out. Then it was just a matter of time until I could rationalize buying a second card. Time and money.
It will. Just make sure to overclock it to around 4.2-4.4. It's easy as pie.
I don't think you do understand what I mean.
Let's say a system gets 120+ fps (or 8.3ms frame times to be more precise) in Dota 2, CS:GO, Borderlands 2, Skyrim. It gets 60+ fps (or 16.7ms frame times) in Far Cry 3, Guild Wars 2. However, it gets 40-60 fps with maxed settings in Crysis 3 and Metro 2033. Does this system not meet the metric of "Play games at 1080p/60fps with maxed settings"?
It's a tricky question, because if three titles are preventing it from earning the achievement, one should technically answer "no". But that really does a disservice, as someone might imagine that means it won't get great performance in all sorts of titles. If the system is able to run 99.5% of titles at 60fps/1080p, and probably 80% of titles at 120fps/1080p, then both the question and the honest answer to the question foul up the entire discussion.
As per your second paragraph, G-Sync and Freesync in no way remove the importance of frame times. I'm not sure you fully understand what it means.
Looking at frame times and FPS is literally the same data. The former is every frame, the latter is an average of all frames over one second. As such, the former is and always will be far more accurate.
I'm not sure I agree with you at all. If anything, G-Sync will make frame-rates less important.
Frame time will always be important because it's a metric that better reveals how consistent the presentation of frames (and therefore the experience) will be from one second to the next.
I stand corrected. Misunderstood the tech
I'm starting to get frustrated with my PC right now. If it's not one problem, it's another. My computer likes to turn on and off, freeze after bios with black screen and a blinking cursor, freeze on bios, freeze after a save and reset after a bios change - is it my motherboard? I'm really regretting this Biostar Z87w I bought. Mostly because I don't like ordering from newegg and their return policies such as their return policy for the Z87w, which I can only exchange for a replacement.
Edit: PC works fine once I reach Windows startup.
Edit: PC works fine once I reach Windows startup.
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