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"I Need a New PC!" 2014 Part 1. 1080p and 60FPS is so last-gen and your 2500K is fine

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Okay, I thought I'd ask here. I have a measly HD 6870, and want to upgrade for the Oculus Rift Dev Kit 2. Essentially I need to run games in stereoscopic 3D at 1080p.

What is the most cost effective upgrade (and I understand it will still be around $400 or more) for me to achieve that performance?
 
Okay, I thought I'd ask here. I have a measly HD 6870, and want to upgrade for the Oculus Rift Dev Kit 2. Essentially I need to run games in stereoscopic 3D at 1080p.

What is the most cost effective upgrade (and I understand it will still be around $400 or more) for me to achieve that performance?

What CPU do you have?
 

mkenyon

Banned
Okay, I think I have everything laid out how I want it, just have one last question. I need someone to explain this to me like I'm 5. I purchased Windows 8 for a 32-bit computer back when they were doing the $15 sale. I want my upcoming 64-bit computer to run Windows 8 and then upgrade to 8.1 (which is free).

I did read the Microsoft installation guide in the OP. Now, since this is a completely new computer, can I use my activation code to download the .iso for Windows 8 and put it on a flash drive to boot the new computer with it? Or will my best bet just be buying a physicsl 64-bit OS disc, and booting it with that?

Finally, how does the solid state drive actually work from an interface standpoint? Does it just operate as another storage destination with faster load times, or what?
You'll need to buy a new 64 bit edition, get a key off of Reddit.com/r/softwareswap

The SSD acts as any storage device.
What CPU do you have?
Yeah, this is really important, but likely a 780.
 
What software? Seems a little long to me. Also what are you using for your data management? If it is all running off of the same 5400 RPM hard drive, then it's probably about right. Check your CPU usage age while rendering. If it is less than 100% you're getting bottlenecked by your disk speed.

I'm using Premiere Pro.

I'm running my OS on an SSD and my scratch disk is in a 7200rpm drive...
 
That's probably the slowdown then. What's your CPU use during a render?

sagFRHn.png


Flucuates between 60-75% but topped out at 80
 

kennah

Member
7200 drive then. I get 60% with an i7 writing to a 7200 rpm drive off of a 10k, but 100 when I'm doing everything off SSD.
 

riflen

Member
I think (I have a Dell XPS 8300) an Intel Core i7 (2nd Gen) 2600 / 3.4 GHz.

If you go for a 780, you may have to think about replacing the PSU. The information I can find states only that its 460w, which could be cutting it close if the PSU is not great quality.

The OP suggests some good PSUs for that level of GPU. Hopefully the case allows for a third-party PSU to be installed.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
k, one last question. So I've decided on the GTX 770. Is it worth it now to invest in the 4GB one? Will 2GB last me til 2016 for Pascal?
 

mkenyon

Banned
I think (I have a Dell XPS 8300) an Intel Core i7 (2nd Gen) 2600 / 3.4 GHz.
Yeah, you're likely looking at a new system. The CPU is going to prevent you from getting 120 fps (what you need for stereoscopic 3D) in a lot of games, especially stuff like Skyrim and UE3.

A new GPU will definitely require a new PSU, and the GPU may not even fit in the case. The case probably isn't designed for that kind of heat either.

But, if you're okay getting great performance in a number of titles without *everything* running smoothly, you could probably get away with just a GPU/PSU upgrade.
 

kiyomi

Member
You'll need to buy a new 64 bit edition, get a key off of Reddit.com/r/softwareswap

Is it correct to say that you can only burn a 64-bit ISO if you're already using a 64-bit system?

I just found out that the laptop I planned on downloading and burning the ISO to USB from is 32-bit. :/ Literally just ready to build as well, haha.

kharma45 said:
No worries. It's all contextual. Ideally the Z87W or the D3H is my baseline but unfortunately not possible here.

In the end I plumped for a mATX build and a GRYPHON. Looked like a solid board with the features I wanted, plus the 5-year warranty was super attractive to someone like me.
 
I have an overclocked i5-3570k but my GTX 780 won't be here until Monday.

I wanted to play with the dolphin emulator this weekend. Would I be able to use the integrated graphics until my 780 gets here? Or should I not even bother?
 
I have an overclocked i5-3570k but my GTX 780 won't be here until Monday.

I wanted to play with the dolphin emulator this weekend. Would I be able to use the integrated graphics until my 780 gets here? Or should I not even bother?

Seems... Doubtful to me, at least not on any decent settings.
 
If you go for a 780, you may have to think about replacing the PSU. The information I can find states only that its 460w, which could be cutting it close if the PSU is not great quality.

The OP suggests some good PSUs for that level of GPU. Hopefully the case allows for a third-party PSU to be installed.

Yeah, I had planned on upgrading my PSU. I'm preeeetty sure that the case allows for it.

Yeah, you're likely looking at a new system. The CPU is going to prevent you from getting 120 fps (what you need for stereoscopic 3D) in a lot of games, especially stuff like Skyrim and UE3.

A new GPU will definitely require a new PSU, and the GPU may not even fit in the case. The case probably isn't designed for that kind of heat either.

But, if you're okay getting great performance in a number of titles without *everything* running smoothly, you could probably get away with just a GPU/PSU upgrade.

Yeah, definitely upgrading PSU. I should have room for the card, as the 6870 is already a double slot card.

Interestingly, with my current comp (10 gigs of RAM and the 6870 being the only two upgrades from the stock XPS 8300), I get what seems to be a pleasant FPS playing Tomb Raider in 3D at 1080p, but I do have to knock the TressFX off and the shadow/lighting settings. I'm sure I'm not getting anywhere close to the Oculus recommended FPS, but it seems smooth. I must be getting around 30 or so.

I could care less about amazing lighting or shadows, so those settings I can turn to low/medium for future games, as long as just a graphics card upgrade will boost me up to the performance I need without an entire new rig.
 

riflen

Member
Yeah, you're likely looking at a new system. The CPU is going to prevent you from getting 120 fps (what you need for stereoscopic 3D) in a lot of games, especially stuff like Skyrim and UE3.

A new GPU will definitely require a new PSU, and the GPU may not even fit in the case. The case probably isn't designed for that kind of heat either.

But, if you're okay getting great performance in a number of titles without *everything* running smoothly, you could probably get away with just a GPU/PSU upgrade.

Just a note: he wont need 120fps, he's asking about 3D because he intends to buy an Oculus Rift Devkit 2 (960x1080 x 2 / 60 / 72 / 75 Hz). Of course, all the rest of your post is right on the nose.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Is it correct to say that you can only burn a 64-bit ISO if you're already using a 64-bit system?
Nope.
Yeah, I had planned on upgrading my PSU. I'm preeeetty sure that the case allows for it.



Yeah, definitely upgrading PSU. I should have room for the card, as the 6870 is already a double slot card.

Interestingly, with my current comp (10 gigs of RAM and the 6870 being the only two upgrades from the stock XPS 8300), I get what seems to be a pleasant FPS playing Tomb Raider in 3D at 1080p, but I do have to knock the TressFX off and the shadow/lighting settings. I'm sure I'm not getting anywhere close to the Oculus recommended FPS, but it seems smooth. I must be getting around 30 or so.

I could care less about amazing lighting or shadows, so those settings I can turn to low/medium for future games, as long as just a graphics card upgrade will boost me up to the performance I need without an entire new rig.
Length is the issue you'll be dealing with, not height on the card.

Also, not to be a grammar nazi, but it's one of my pet peeves. You mean "I couldn't care less", as what you literally said means that you are capable of caring less, which implies an amount of care exists. :p

There's a number of games that just really rely on clock speed of a processor to get the most out of them, but if you're mostly after SP experiences and 30 fps is okay to you, then you're set.
Just a note: he wont need 120fps, he's asking about 3D because he intends to buy an Oculus Rift Devkit 2 (960x1080 x 2 / 60 / 72 / 75 Hz). Of course, all the rest of your post is right on the nose.
Right, stereoscopic 3D requires double the frame rate. 960x1080 @ 60hz x2 = 120 fps or 8.3ms frame times.
I have an overclocked i5-3570k but my GTX 780 won't be here until Monday.

I wanted to play with the dolphin emulator this weekend. Would I be able to use the integrated graphics until my 780 gets here? Or should I not even bother?
If you have a Z77 motherboard, absolutely. Dolphin doesn't use discrete GPUs for performance, it's all CPU.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
I have an overclocked i5-3570k but my GTX 780 won't be here until Monday.

I wanted to play with the dolphin emulator this weekend. Would I be able to use the integrated graphics until my 780 gets here? Or should I not even bother?
You could but you won't be able to raise the internal res in a lot of games until your 780 arrives (I was in the same situation too before :). OC'ed 3570k plus waiting for a 780)
 

rocK`

Banned
If I were gonna do 4K I would get more VRAM. I haven't been following this stuff much lately but presumably there are cards with >2GB of VRAM?

Also I would go for a bigger SSD and cheaper secondary HDD, personally.

I feel like if you're putting down $1600 for a gaming rig (which I presume it to be) you should probably spend more than $300 on a graphics card. Heck, the $750 build from Tom's Hardware had the same GPU!

Just my $0.02.

Thoughts on Gpu then? Want to stay with nvidia.

Also looking at the Asus P 27TH as the monitors
 
You'll need to buy a new 64 bit edition, get a key off of Reddit.com/r/softwareswap

The SSD acts as any storage device.

Thanks for the help, once again. What I'm saying about the SSD, though, is that what should go on there as a priority? Just files I'll frequently be accessing, common programs, stuff like that? Or am I missing the point?

Revised setup:

Build Excellent - Best Overall
CPU Intel Xeon E3-1230V3 $249.99
Motherboard ASUS H87M-PRO $112.99
RAM Crucial 2x8GB (16GB) $142.99
Graphics Gigabyte GTX 760 GDDR5-2GB $259.99
SSD Samsung 840 EVO 250GB $149.99
Storage 1TB WD Blue WD10EZEX $59.99
Power Supply CORSAIR RM Series RM650 $119.99
Case Define R4 $99.99
Heatsink CM Hyper T4 $29.99
Sound Card Xonar DGX $34.99

Total: $1260.90

Networking TP-LINK TL-WDN4800 Dual Band Wireless $42.99
Keyboard Logitech K750 $48.99
Monitor ASUS VS247H-P $169.99

Grand Total: $1522.87
 
Nope.

Length is the issue you'll be dealing with, not height on the card.

Also, not to be a grammar nazi, but it's one of my pet peeves. You mean "I couldn't care less", as what you literally said means that you are capable of caring less, which implies an amount of care exists. :p

There's a number of games that just really rely on clock speed of a processor to get the most out of them, but if you're mostly after SP experiences and 30 fps is okay to you, then you're set.

Right, stereoscopic 3D requires double the frame rate. 960x1080 @ 60hz x2 = 120 fps or 8.3ms frame times.

1. Ah, length. I didn't think about it. I'll measure the amount of space I have available later today.

2. Holy shit! I am actually mad at myself about that grammar mistake! I've been in honors English since middle school, and got an easy A in every college writing course, so this is very disappointing to me! I'm not perfect, but I hate that phrase. Thanks for pointing it out. /endrant

3. Hmm. I'm happy with SP, as that is literally all I do, and I mostly want it for experiences like the Riftmax theater app (which I may even be able to run already), but I'm now worried about my CPU being an issue. I never even thought about it. I would be fine with lower framerates (essentially 30 fps), but I've heard its quite sickening on the Rift. Ugh, I'm too broke to be considering building a computer right now! Are there any decent prebuilt computers out there for less than $900 that would suffice? I know you can piecemeal a build and save money, but I'm just keeping my options open.
 

kiyomi

Member
The ISO you download is a specific version. It dictates itself, IIRC. Follow the guide in the OP.

Okay, it's just that I read this and I'm concerned I'll end up with a 32-bit system;

If you plan on creating a 64-bit system with the key I will provide, you will need to download the installer from the official Microsoft site HERE using a 64-bit system. If you download the installer using a 32-bit system, the installer will create a 32-bit ISO, which will make your new OS 32-bit.
 

Bleepey

Member
Sorry to ask again, what's the CPU/Mobo or CPU/MOBO/RAM combo I should go for? What can I do with your configurations. Add a lot of RAM/Add an additional graphics card/HDD. Etc etc my budget is £230 for MOBO and CPU.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Okay, it's just that I read this and I'm concerned I'll end up with a 32-bit system;
TBH, it's been so long since I've had 32 bit (6 years ago maybe?) that I didn't know this was an issue. Looks like there's some good tips here.
Thanks for the help, once again. What I'm saying about the SSD, though, is that what should go on there as a priority? Just files I'll frequently be accessing, common programs, stuff like that? Or am I missing the point?
Yep, OS and main programs. You want it as your C: drive.
 

Tabasco

Member
Not sure if I should ask this here, but I'll go ahead and do it anyway.

It's about Firefox.

It crashes constantly when I use it on my PC. Any amount of tabs it will just randomly crash with this pop-up following afterward:

7r2mxlg.jpg


Anything I should try?
 

riflen

Member
Right, stereoscopic 3D requires double the frame rate. 960x1080 @ 60hz x2 = 120 fps or 8.3ms frame times.

Yes, the system will need to generate 120 unique scenes per second when at 60fps, but this is not the same as a standard game running at 120fps. In the case of the latter, everything (AI, game logic and the graphical output) is recalculated for each frame causing much higher requirements.

For stereo-optic rendering, only the vertex data needs to be recalculated for the other 960x1080 scene, meaning the performance hit is really only marginally more than rendering a 1920x1080 frame at 60fps. Maybe 10-15% extra.

It's kind of like running around in a traditional game with a character who has two heads/cameras and your 1920x1080 display is split down the centre vertically to display each perspective.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Yes, the system will need to generate 120 unique scenes per second when at 60fps, but this is not the same as a standard game running at 120fps. In the case of the latter, everything (AI, game logic and the graphical output) is recalculated for each frame causing much higher requirements.

For stereo-optic rendering, only the vertex data needs to be recalculated for the other 960x1080 scene, meaning the performance hit is really only marginally more than rendering a 1920x1080 frame at 60fps. Maybe 10-15% extra.

It's kind of like running around in a traditional game with a character who has two heads/cameras and your 1920x1080 display is split down the centre vertically to display each perspective.
Ahhhhhh, that is really great to know. Thank you for clarifying.
 

kiyomi

Member
TBH, it's been so long since I've had 32 bit (6 years ago maybe?) that I didn't know this was an issue. Looks like there's some good tips here.

Yeah, it's super frustrating. Most of those ideas in the thread just go over my head. I guess I'll have to find someone with a 64-bit PC to burn the ISO from.
 

Serandur

Member
I could use an outside opinion of which of two GPUs to go for:


The Tri-X R9 290 for $495 or the Gigabyte GTX 780 GHz edition for $510?


At the current prices, the 290 has lost a lot of its relative value to the 780 in my opinion and that particular 780 is (slightly) faster, cooler, less power-hungry, and overclocks better (and well in general apparently). I also find the Nvidia control panel easier to manage for forcing AA/AF in games and, especially, downsampling.

On the other hand, the 290 is (slightly) cheaper, has some extra VRAM (wondering if that might be useful for a heavily-modded Skyrim), TrueAudio (don't care too much though), and Mantle (also a bit apathetic towards this since I'm getting a 3770K and DirectX equivalents are on the horizon).

I am of course leaning towards the 780, but with the caveat of the VRAM amount. What I know tells me I shouldn't be worried, but with certain spectacles like the whole Titanfall Insane textures thing and the uncertainty of future game releases (coupled with the certainty of me heavily modding certain games that allow it, like Skyrim and Fallout 4), I just feel a bit uneasy paying this much for a video card and still facing any such restrictions. At the moment, I will only be playing on a single 1920x1080 screen, but I demand real AA like MSAA (no more than 4x) in more demanding games and would like downsampling otherwise. I also love high resolution textures, and I am going to mess with settings to whatever degree I need to to obtain a constant or near-constant 60 FPS. I plan on keeping the GPU for at least 2.5 - 3 years.
 
Just managed to snag a Windows 8.1 key for $20! Thanks, based GAF / reddit.

Any last-minute recommendations for my setup (posted above with links) before I start making purchases?
 

mkenyon

Banned
I could use an outside opinion of which of two GPUs to go for:


The Tri-X R9 290 for $495 or the Gigabyte GTX 780 GHz edition for $510?


At the current prices, the 290 has lost a lot of its relative value to the 780 in my opinion and that particular 780 is (slightly) faster, cooler, less power-hungry, and overclocks better (and well in general apparently). I also find the Nvidia control panel easier to manage for forcing AA/AF in games and, especially, downsampling.

On the other hand, the 290 is (slightly) cheaper, has some extra VRAM (wondering if that might be useful for a heavily-modded Skyrim), TrueAudio (don't care too much though), and Mantle (also a bit apathetic towards this since I'm getting a 3770K and DirectX equivalents are on the horizon).

I am of course leaning towards the 780, but with the caveat of the VRAM amount. What I know tells me I shouldn't be worried, but with certain spectacles like the whole Titanfall Insane textures thing and the uncertainty of future game releases (coupled with the certainty of me heavily modding certain games that allow it, like Skyrim and Fallout 4), I just feel a bit uneasy paying this much for a video card and still facing any such restrictions. At the moment, I will only be playing on a single 1920x1080 screen, but I demand real AA like MSAA (no more than 4x) in more demanding games and would like downsampling otherwise. I also love high resolution textures, and I am going to mess with settings to whatever degree I need to to obtain a constant or near-constant 60 FPS. I plan on keeping the GPU for at least 2.5 - 3 years.
To me, it all comes down to whether or not you would use Shadowplay and G-Sync. Those two things alone are enough to have me going green on my next purchase.
 

Serandur

Member
To me, it all comes down to whether or not you would use Shadowplay and G-Sync. Those two things alone are enough to have me going green on my next purchase.

At the moment, I have no interest in either. It really depends on how affordable Gsync monitors become in the coming years, but I'm making my decision regardless of those.
 

mkenyon

Banned
If those aren't part of the decision process, and the AMD cards are available for MSRP, then the AMD options are much better performers per $. The 290 at $495 doesn't really seem worth it though. If it were at its $400 MSRP, different question.
 
Yes, the system will need to generate 120 unique scenes per second when at 60fps, but this is not the same as a standard game running at 120fps. In the case of the latter, everything (AI, game logic and the graphical output) is recalculated for each frame causing much higher requirements.

For stereo-optic rendering, only the vertex data needs to be recalculated for the other 960x1080 scene, meaning the performance hit is really only marginally more than rendering a 1920x1080 frame at 60fps. Maybe 10-15% extra.

It's kind of like running around in a traditional game with a character who has two heads/cameras and your 1920x1080 display is split down the centre vertically to display each perspective.

Ahhhhhh, that is really great to know. Thank you for clarifying.

This makes so much sense. I was wondering why I can mostly get good stereoscopic performance at 1080p with my current card. So, assuming the GPU and PSU will fit in my computer, I should be good to go with my current CPU? For now, anyways?
 

riflen

Member
This makes so much sense. I was wondering why I can mostly get good stereoscopic performance at 1080p with my current card. So, assuming the GPU and PSU will fit in my computer, I should be good to go with my current CPU? For now, anyways?

Probably. Oculus state the requirements for DK2 are a computer that's able to run current games at 1920x1080 at 75fps. Maybe you'll have to turn some stuff down, maybe you wont. It'll depend on the game. I've not got DK1 so I can't speak from personal experience.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Absolutely.

2600 is great for 60 fps at any res. It's those CPU intensive games that really need you to up the clock speed to get 120 fps, but if all of the CPU intensive is still happening at that 60 fps rate, there's no worries.
 

Serandur

Member
If those aren't part of the decision process, and the AMD cards are available for MSRP, then the AMD options are much better performers per $. The 290 at $495 doesn't really seem worth it though. If it were at its $400 MSRP, different question.

That's what I was thinking and I really do love pretty much everything about the Windforce 780. Even aesthetically, I think it's black and metal frame (with backplate) is very nice and would match my other components better. Downsampling is a big factor in this for me because the 780 is much more powerful than necessary for a lot of games I like to play and I know AMD don't properly support it. What are the chances of actually damaging a monitor through forced downsampling, though? I'm also worried about VRAM, otherwise I'd probably buy the card on impulse right now. Should I be worried?
 
Probably. Oculus state the requirements for DK2 are a computer that's able to run current games at 1920x1080 at 75fps. Maybe you'll have to turn some stuff down, maybe you wont. It'll depend on the game. I've not got DK1 so I can't speak from personal experience.

Absolutely.

2600 is great for 60 fps at any res. It's those CPU intensive games that really need you to up the clock speed to get 120 fps, but if all of the CPU intensive is still happening at that 60 fps rate, there's no worries.

Thank you both so very much! This makes my process much easier. Unless something really goes on sale within the next few months, I believe I will either get the GTX 780 or the R9 290x. I'm a bit of an AMD fan, so I may sway towards that, unless I see the 780 for a great price. I guess I can follow that with my last question (for now!), which is what would be a good price to watch for on those two cards?
 

mkenyon

Banned
That's what I was thinking and I really do love pretty much everything about the Windforce 780. Even aesthetically, I think it's black and metal frame (with backplate) is very nice and would match my other components better. Downsampling is a big factor in this for me because the 780 is much more powerful than necessary for a lot of games I like to play and I know AMD don't properly support it. What are the chances of actually damaging a monitor through forced downsampling, though? I'm also worried about VRAM, otherwise I'd probably buy the card on impulse right now. Should I be worried?
The only thing you would want to avoid is downsampling Skyrim with insane texture mods. Otherwise, you're set.
Thank you both so very much! This makes my process much easier. Unless something really goes on sale within the next few months, I believe I will either get the GTX 780 or the R9 290x. I'm a bit of an AMD fan, so I may sway towards that, unless I see the 780 for a great price. I guess I can follow that with my last question (for now!), which is what would be a good price to watch for on those two cards?
US, EU?

In the US, AMD prices are still inflated to the point where they don't yet make sense, IMO.
 
US, EU?

In the US, AMD prices are still inflated to the point where they don't yet make sense, IMO.

US. I just found this card: Newegg link to an overclocked Sapphire R9 290x.

Is that a good price? I'm sorry, I just don't know anything about graphics cards since I'm still relatively new to PC gaming. I know the retail prices are usually way over what they are really worth, but this seems to have gotten some buzz on Slickdeals.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I can get it for $470 after checking out with that Visa Me thing. Apparently though, this is actually still higher than retail? Is it because of GPU mining?
 

NoRéN

Member
Quick question for those with experience buying cheap keys off reddit:

what do i need to buy there? Make an account and have paypal available?
 

Stubo

Member
So what's the final verdict?
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor (£127.19 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: ASRock H87 Pro4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£54.37 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Patriot Signature 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£57.83 @ Ebuyer)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 270 2GB Video Card (£128.71 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Zalman Z5 ATX Mid Tower Case (£31.04 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: XFX 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£20.00 @ Maplin Electronics)
Total: £419.14

This would be the build you had specced up before with the 4400 and with the 660 switched out to a R9 270. This is completely your choice of course. Since you're not getting a custom heatsink/fan (and going for big numbers), it's entirely possible that a cheap Z87 motherboard could deal with a modest overclock on a 4670k.

If you go the 4440 route, consider using some of the leftover money to upgrade your GPU, or maybe pick up a small capacity SSD as an OS drive.

Edit: Any of these options will serve you pretty well as long as you're sure to avoid that horrible RAM that you linked before!
 
NoRéN;106008032 said:
Quick question for those with experience buying cheap keys off reddit:

what do i need to buy there? Make an account and have paypal available?

That is all I did. Made an account and used my PayPal (after PMing someone who had what I wanted) and that was that. Super easy.
 
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