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"I Need a New PC!" 2014 Part 1. 1080p and 60FPS is so last-gen and your 2500K is fine

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kiyomi

Member
Thanks for the recommendations man, I really appreciate all the help I can get.
Is their any difference between the Corsair and the Patriot RAM?
And what difference is there in the Radeon R9 270X and GTX 760?
Sorry about the silly questions!

Shouldn't be any differences. The Patriot stuff is dual channel, 1.5V, 1600MHz, etc. Basically everything it needs to be.

In short? It's better. :p But if you wanted to save ~£30 then the 270X would be okay, certainly not a poor choice. It's just that the 760 is kind of the go-to mid range 1080p card at the moment.
 

TheD

The Detective
So my plan of getting a closed loop water cooling system to better overclock my 2500K has gone tits up :(

Instead of going out and getting it blind to what kind of OC I could get, I decided to start pushing the clockspeed up from 4.4Ghz to see how high it could get before it reached 80c + and what volts it needed.
I get to 4.6Ghz fine with an offset voltage of +0.50V, boot and run about 15 min of Linpack without problems, so I decide to push 4.7Ghz.

At 4.7Ghz it fails getting into windows at that voltage, so I decide to see if internal PLL overvoltage would help. It does but the core speed is stuck at max (and it does crash after about 50 seconds in Linpack), so wondering why it is stuck at full speed I go and turn off internal PLL overvoltage and put the clockspeed back down to 4.6Ghz, boot up into windows and the clockspeed is still stuck.

I then decide to reset the CMOS (which does not seem to reset most settings for some reason), I then figure out that the C1E powerstate got disabled, so I turn it back on.
But now the system will no longer get to windows at 4.6Ghz and with everything the same as when I ran it at the last time (including voltage)!

I have no idea why it no longer works, it is not like the 1.4 volts that it ran for a short time when internal PLL overvoltage was enabled should of degraded the chip.

I put the core up to 117 and here are my Furmark results:

2SsKNGq.jpg


It never said it went above 966MHz during the benchmark.

Also thank you for the help, I'm pretty new to overclocking in general.

You are likely hiting the thermal, voltage or power limits when running FurMark (and Nvidia and AMD drivers are setup to not run full speed when they see that furmark is running due to the number of cards it has killed).
 

mkenyon

Banned
The thing about offset is that it might not be enough for certain steppings.

Lets say the +.50V works fine at 4.6GHz, but at 4.5GHz, you might need +.51 or something. Just give it more volts. The 212+ should be fine in terms of temps up through 1.35-1.4V, for at least a short period.

*edit*

Also, FWIW, you can keep Speedstepping active, and just apply a constant voltage. It won't be AS frugal as using offset, but I've always found it more stable. It's the only way I OC.
 

Ashhong

Member
The fan is attached with clips. You can easily offset it a little higher on the heat sink to allow some ram clearance.

Cool thanks. I have the cooler here but I don't want to open any of my stuff until I have everything and I can do it all at once :D
 

TheD

The Detective
The thing about offset is that it might not be enough for certain steppings.

Lets say the +.50V works fine at 4.6GHz, but at 4.5GHz, you might need +.51 or something. Just give it more volts. The 212+ should be fine in terms of temps up through 1.35-1.4V, for at least a short period.

*edit*

Also, FWIW, you can keep Speedstepping active, and just apply a constant voltage. It won't be AS frugal as using offset, but I've always found it more stable. It's the only way I OC.

But the voltage worked fine at 4.6Ghz before I tried 4.7Ghz, So I do not know why it stopped working.

I guess I could try constant voltage, but I do not really want to have the CPU pulling down so much power all the time (I leave my PC on 24/7).
 

Hieberrr

Member
I'm sort of thinking about building a hackingtosh and having it dualboot the latest OS X as well as W8. Is there a happy medium there in terms of hardware? I'm looking to spend maybe 600-700 on a decent gaming machine/home PC.

Any suggestions?

It'll be my first time putting together a computer.
 

LilJoka

Member
But the voltage worked fine at 4.6Ghz before I tried 4.7Ghz, So I do not know why it stopped working.

I guess I could try constant voltage, but I do not really want to have the CPU pulling down so much power all the time (I leave my PC on 24/7).

It's probably not booting 4.7ghz because you left a bunch of settings on Auto and it's a chance that they are not being set as they were previously. Try setting the Load line calibration to high and try the offset again. Always take note of the load voltage in CPUz so that you know what the offset should be providing. Also the offset is applied to a VID voltage which depends on the multiplier. So different multipliers with the same offset voltages will have different load voltages.

I used to OC with fixed vcore, but it's just so much more efficient to use offset in the long run. It also means idle temps are a lot lower and the chip won't be degrading any faster than it has too. A lot of the time we are not pushing our rigs so it's worth it, if you run 100% 24/7 use fixed or if you're benching as it's slightly more stable at the bleeding edge of the chip.
 

mkenyon

Banned
It's probably not booting 4.7ghz because you left a bunch of settings on Auto and it's a chance that they are not being set as they were previously. Try setting the Load line calibration to high and try the offset again. Always take note of the load voltage in CPUz so that you know what the offset should be providing. Also the offset is applied to a VID voltage which depends on the multiplier. So different multipliers with the same offset voltages will have different load voltages.

I used to OC with fixed vcore, but it's just so much more efficient to use offset in the long run. It also means idle temps are a lot lower and the chip won't be degrading any faster than it has too. A lot of the time we are not pushing our rigs so it's worth it, if you run 100% 24/7 use fixed or if you're benching as it's slightly more stable at the bleeding edge of the chip.
I often forget about these concerns when I shouldn't. Getting a new chip every 6 months or so can kind of make my brain wonky.
 

LilJoka

Member
Just to add, it's also possible that when you enabled the CStates, when Windows boots up it engages the different states and on transition it's unstable. Speedstep and CStates do have an effect on stability especially with offset voltage.
 

TheD

The Detective
It's probably not booting 4.7ghz because you left a bunch of settings on Auto and it's a chance that they are not being set as they were previously. Try setting the Load line calibration to high and try the offset again. Always take note of the load voltage in CPUz so that you know what the offset should be providing. Also the offset is applied to a VID voltage which depends on the multiplier. So different multipliers with the same offset voltages will have different load voltages.

I used to OC with fixed vcore, but it's just so much more efficient to use offset in the long run. It also means idle temps are a lot lower and the chip won't be degrading any faster than it has too. A lot of the time we are not pushing our rigs so it's worth it, if you run 100% 24/7 use fixed or if you're benching as it's slightly more stable at the bleeding edge of the chip.

I am not complaining about not being able to boot up at 4.7.
I am complaining about it booting up at 4.6 (and being stable enough to run Linpack), going to 4.7, not having it work, going back to 4.6 and not having it boot into windows with the same settings it ran fine with before (I leave most things on auto anyway).

With regards to offset voltage.
I know it is offset compared to the VID, but I do notice that the Vcore seems to be lower than VID for me (bar having a + offset), I guess it is vdrop, but when I up the vdrop compensation it makes idle voltage shoot up.
 

kennah

Member
I'm sort of thinking about building a hackingtosh and having it dualboot the latest OS X as well as W8. Is there a happy medium there in terms of hardware? I'm looking to spend maybe 600-700 on a decent gaming machine/home PC.

Any suggestions?

It'll be my first time putting together a computer.

The builds and guides on tonymacx86.com are solid.

If you've never done this before be aware that running a hackintosh is not a novice friendly venture.
 

LilJoka

Member
I am not complaining about not being able to boot up at 4.7.
I am complaining about it booting up at 4.6 (and being stable enough to run Linpack), going to 4.7, not having it work, going back to 4.6 and not having it boot into windows (with the same settings it ran fine with before).

Though you enabled C1E which can cause that to happen. And the CMOS reset can cause implications I described before. The only real way to test is setup the LLC and fixed Vcore so that the load Vcore is exact as it was in your linpack 4.6ghz test. That can be setup using a lower multiplier first. I meant 4.6ghz in that post.
 

TheD

The Detective
Though you enabled C1E which can cause that to happen. And the CMOS reset can cause implications I described before. The only real way to test is setup the LLC and fixed Vcore so that the load Vcore is exact as it was in your linpack 4.6ghz test. That can be setup using a lower multiplier first. I meant 4.6ghz in that post.

C1E was on the first time I ran it at 4.6Ghz, internal PLL overvoltage just seems to of turned it off when I enabled it to try to get 4.7 stable.
 

Tenck

Member
Where would I look to find out more about watercooling? I'm trying to make my next rig WC'ed. Hoping to spend no more than $1000 to $12000.
 

scogoth

Member
done. fucking. university. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

bouncing-boobs-32.gif
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
done. fucking. university. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

bouncing-boobs-32.gif

congrats! and thanks for the gif
 

TheD

The Detective
So I tried turning C1E off, giving it a set voltage of 1.4v and upping the Vdrop compensation and
all I got was a bunch of 9c BSODs :(
Trying with offset but with no C1E also gave be nothing (could not even get past POST with some of the settings).
 

mkenyon

Banned
Where would I look to find out more about watercooling? I'm trying to make my next rig WC'ed. Hoping to spend no more than $1000 to $12000.
The information is insanely scattered, and there's all sorts of tiny things to be aware of.

But just to give you an idea on budgeting, you'd be looking at around $400-600 for a full loop (CPU and GPU), case included, for watercooling parts. You could go as high as many thousands of dollars as well. But for a quick rundown:

Pump - Obvious, it moves the water. You want a D5 Vario.

Case - Generally want to have enough room for a 3x120 (360mm) and a 2x120 (240mm) radiator.

Tubing/Piping - I only recommend EK ZMT for tubing or hardline copper pipe. Everything else has all sorts of little issues. For copper pipe, 10 or 12mm OD (outside diameter), and the EK ZMT is only sold as 3/8"x5/8". Both are basically zero maintenance. They don't leach anything into the loop, and they prevent UV reactions in the coolant as they don't let any light through. You can go for clear tubing if you want some fancy colored liquid to be visible, but it is more work as you'll need to clean up your blocks every 6 months.

Blocks - EK, Aquacomputer, Heatkiller/Watercool, XSPC, and Bitspower are all good. It's almost entirely a choice of aesthetics between them.

Fittings - You get fittings to match the size of your tubing/piping. Bitspower makes the best fittings. These are the most complicated part of a loop because you generally want to order the right adapters (90 degree, 45 degree) to make clean lines from part to part.

Reservoir - Lots of options here, whether it's a bay reservoir or tube reservoir. The only thing you want to keep in mind is to have your pump physically below the reservoir, unless it's a reservoir/pump housing in one.

Radiators - Obviously the thicker the radiator is, the more heat it is able to dissipate. Additionally, an important spec on radiators is FPI (fins per inch). The higher the FPI, the faster fans need to spin in order to efficiently push air through them. With both of these in mind, you generally want thicker (45mm+) radiators with a low FPI so you can run your fans very low while still getting good performance. I like XSPC AX, Alphacool Nexxos, Aquacomputer, and EK Coolstream PE radiators.

Fans - You want fans with a high pressure rating, which is much more important than CFI. The general favorites are: Gentle Typhoons, Noiseblocker eloops, Coolermaster JetFlo, Corsair SP, Cougar Vortex, and Noctua NF-F12s.
done. fucking. university.
Grats!
 

Yoday

Member
Is GTX 580 to GTX 770 a worthy upgrade? Or should I aim for GTX 780 (if so, I'd most likely wait for GTX 880 to come out and see how it performs).
I am in the same boat, and honestly I am going to wait. The 580 can handle everything out there just fine, and it should do pretty well with Watch_Dogs. It isn't going to max it out, but it should run fairly high settings. Watch_Dogs is the only highly demanding game coming out until later this year, so it seems better to wait for the 800 line and get more bang for the buck.
 
Was thinking of getting an R9 280x, but then I remembered about video card/general system PSU wattage requirements. Some digging online says the recommended PSU wattage is 750w. But a lot of discussion says that is a huge over-estimate for most single card setups that don't focus on OC'ing. So I currently have a 650w PSU, would I have to buy a new PSU for the 280x, or is that fine?
 

Yoday

Member
Was thinking of getting an R9 280x, but then I remembered about video card/general system PSU wattage requirements. Some digging online says the recommended PSU wattage is 750w. But a lot of discussion says that is a huge over-estimate for most single card setups that don't focus on OC'ing. So I currently have a 650w PSU, would I have to buy a new PSU for the 280x, or is that fine?
You are more than fine.
 

NBtoaster

Member
Apparently you need to be ultra careful when installing RAM. I tried to upgrade from 4 to 8GB, but seems I pushed down too hard and damaged something on the motherboard. And then in caught fire when I turned it on. I'm unlikely to touch the inside of a computer again.
 

Ashhong

Member
Apparently you need to be ultra careful when installing RAM. I tried to upgrade from 4 to 8GB, but seems I pushed down too hard and damaged something on the motherboard. And then in caught fire when I turned it on. I'm unlikely to touch the inside of a computer again.

:O

What do you mean? Semester's over, exams are going on right now.

What a weird school system...I dont know any school that finishes a quarter or a semester in April
 
Apparently you need to be ultra careful when installing RAM. I tried to upgrade from 4 to 8GB, but seems I pushed down too hard and damaged something on the motherboard. And then in caught fire when I turned it on. I'm unlikely to touch the inside of a computer again.

That... shouldn't happen. The only thing I can think of is you forced it in the wrong way and there was a dust build-up caught in the gap, which ignited when it short circuited. That is such an odd combination of events that it's almost impressive...
 

NBtoaster

Member
That... shouldn't happen. The only thing I can think of is you forced it in the wrong way and there was a dust build-up caught in the gap, which ignited when it short circuited. That is such an odd combination of events that it's almost impressive...

I'm going by this thread where something similar happened (same motherboard):

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1653640

Also here:

http://forum.computerlounge.co.nz/yaf_postst7809_ASUS-P8P67-rev-B3-caught-fire.aspx

I'm pretty sure I installed it right, they were tightly clamped down. And the fire started behind the board.

edit: actually.. I seem to have put the new RAM upside down compared to the way the old RAM was oriented. It's the same Kingston HyperX, just 2x4GB instead of 2x2GB (same voltage etc). Would that make a difference?

edit: oh god did a search and thats probably what did it. It didn't didn't even need that much force to clamp it in :S Well I'm an idiot
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
What a weird school system...I dont know any school that finishes a quarter or a semester in April

University/college winter semesters end in April, in Canada that is.

Don't see what's so weird about it. Allows for 3 equal semesters a year or a 4 month summer break to work like little bitches to pay off those student loans.

Winter: January - April
Summer: May - August
Fall: September - December
 

TheBear

Member
I think the issue I'm having with my 290 is to do with HDCP compliance through HDMI. Just replaced it with a 780 so we'll see how it goes.
Anyone have any experience with HDCP errors?
 

NoRéN

Member
Looking to sell a set of Crucial Ballistix Tactical 8GB (2x4gb) RAM.

Hopefully mkenyon can vouch for my dependability and quick shipping. :)

PM if interested.
 

Delt31

Member
for you guys who plug hdmi from pc to tv - are you changing the color space from RGB or leaving it as is (i.e., plug in hdmi and nothing else besides maybe tv pic settings) I know nivida offers options so wasn't sure if I was missing something when playing games from pc to my tv.
 

bob page

Member
I just built a config for a HTPC. I was hoping to do some light gaming on it (TF2, etc), but it'll mainly be for video.

Any thoughts?

CPU: AMD A4-5300 3.4GHz Dual-Core Processor ($46.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Western Digital WD Green 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Silverstone ML04B HTPC Case ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Green 380W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($47.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Antec TriCool 75022 34.0 CFM 80mm Fan ($5.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $375.92
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-04-16 23:17 EDT-0400)

I was also wondering what selling price you guys recommend for my old gaming rig. I was thinking $250- too low or high?

-Antec 300 ATX case w/ case fans
-Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 CPU
-GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P Motherboard
-G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM
-SAPPHIRE 100245HDMI Radeon HD 4850 512MB graphics card
-Western Digital WD3200AAJS 320gb HDD
-NZXT PF-500 500Watt Power Supply
-Riviera 5.1 sound card
 

kennah

Member
$250 is a bit much. Worth closer to $150 depending on your local market.

As for your htpc I built basically the exact same thing for my grandma (same Apu) and it is acceptable for the occasional game. Played Borderlands 2, The Witcher 1 at acceptable frames and orcs must die 2 basically ran exactly the same as my regular desktop :)
 

Aesius

Member
Question: I have an ASUS K52F-BIN6 laptop (circa early 2011 model).

It has a P6200 CPU and an HM55 chipset.

The ASUS website says this model laptop supports the P6000, i3, and i5 series.

Is it actually possible to switch out the P6200 for an i5 540M (highest model listed on the spec sheet).

I was always under the impression that it was impossible to change CPUs in laptops, but apparently this one isn't soldered in.

Furthermore, would such an upgrade even be worth it ($25 on eBay)?
 
Can anyone recommend a way to hook up a PS3 to a computer monitor? The video signal is not a problem since my monitor has a HDMI port. But audio is an issue. My monitor doesn't have a audio out port nor speakers. I just want to hook my headphones for the game audio. Any recommendations?
 

kennah

Member
Yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinking too.

Is it difficult to swap out laptop CPUs?
Extremely. About as difficult a thing you can do with computers.
Can anyone recommend a way to hook up a PS3 to a computer monitor? The video signal is not a problem since my monitor has a HDMI port. But audio is an issue. My monitor doesn't have a audio out port nor speakers. I just want to hook my headphones for the game audio. Any recommendations?
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011412&p_id=10251&seq=1&format=2
 

Aesius

Member
Extremely. About as difficult a thing you can do with computers.

It looks like mine is readily accessible right under the backplate with just 4 screws holding it in. Nothing really in the way.

Does that make a difference? There is a heatsink pipe coming off it and connecting to the fan, but that's it.
 
It looks like mine is readily accessible right under the backplate with just 4 screws holding it in. Nothing really in the way.

Does that make a difference? There is a heatsink pipe coming off it and connecting to the fan, but that's it.

Aren't most laptop CPUs soldered to the motherboard, though?
 
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