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[kharma45]

An i3 instead of an FX6000+. That's not the type of answer I'd get over on Tom's Hardware.

Tom's is full of shit (mostly). The site and the forums.

 

[Mozendo]

Man FX-8320 is $99 on Micro Center with and with a MoBo deal I could of gotten both for $138. ;___: poo
Oh well FX-6300 is good too

Anywho guys once I get my GPU I'm planning on adding fans.
(This will probably be around April)
I have a Corsair 200r and I'm planning on buying 2 Corsair AF 120mm and 4 Corsair AF 140mm and possibly another fan on my Hyper 212 evo

Is this recommended?
I just want a well ventilated computer. I have a bad history of laptops dying on me because they got too hot, don't want this to happen to my future PC.

 

[mkenyon]

An i3 instead of an FX6000+. That's not the type of answer I'd get over on Tom's Hardware.

They don't understand gaming performance very well. That's what this thread is about.

 

[kharma45]

Man FX-8320 is $99 on Micro Center with and with a MoBo deal I could of gotten both for $138. ;___: poo
Oh well FX-6300 is good too

Anywho guys once I get my GPU I'm planning on adding fans.
(This will probably be around April)
I have a Corsair 200r and I'm planning on buying 2 Corsair AF 120mm and 4 Corsair AF 140mm and possibly another fan on my Hyper 212 evo

Is this recommended?
I just want a well ventilated computer. I have a bad history of laptops dying on me because they got too hot, don't want this to happen to my future PC.

You'll not need that many fans. At most put one extra at the front and one at the top of the case over the CPU cooler. You'll not have the same sort of cooling issues in a desktop as a laptop.

 

[coughlanio]

So I've decided to transition my FM2+ HTPC to a gaming PC.

Previously:

AMD A4-4000 Dual Core APU
8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X 2400Mhz
Asus A88XM-Plus FM2+
500w Corsair CX500
120GB Samsung 840 Evo
1TB Seagate HDD
Fractal Design Core 1000

Now:

AMD A10-7850K Quad Core APU
16GB G.Skill Ripjaws X 2400Mhz
Asus A88XM-Plus FM2+
Sapphire Radeon 290X 4GB 'BF4 Edition'
750W Corsair RM750 w/Individually Sleeved Cables
120GB Samsung 840 Evo
1TB Seagate HDD
Corsair 350D
Corsair H100i
Corsair K30 Keyboard
Corsair M65 Mouse
Corsair Quiet Edition 120mm/140mm Fans
NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller
Dell U2414H Monitor

People will probably scoff at the 7850K, but I'm a SFF kind of guy and wanted a modern CPU/Mono combo and FM2+ seems to be the only way to go if you're an AMD guy. I'm sure real world performance will be good enough for what I need.

 

[mkenyon]

As long as you OC it, the IPC improvements on Kaveri should help out with gaming performance quite a bit.

 

[Mozendo]

You'll not need that many fans. At most put one extra at the front and one at the top of the case over the CPU cooler. You'll not have the same sort of cooling issues in a desktop as a laptop.

Ah okay thanks,
But the 200r front panels pulls/pushes air from the sides of the front, is this still recommended? I'm assuming it wouldn't get/let out much air. Should I put one on the side panel as instead?

 

[kennah]

Someone here recommend a B85 with a 4670K?

He stubbornly wouldn't get a Z87 board because it didn't fit his budget...

I tried. Oh did I try.

 

[kharma45]

Ah okay thanks,
But the 200r front panels pulls/pushes air from the sides of the front, is this still recommended? I'm assuming it wouldn't get/let out much air. Should I put one on the side panel as instead?

Although this isn't the 200R air flow is like this

So one extra in the front and one in the roof in addition to the one at the rear and the one already in the front.

He stubbornly wouldn't get a Z87 board because it didn't fit his budget...

I tried. Oh did I try.

Who was this?

 

[SmashN'Grab]

You could re-use your case if you're still happy with it, your PSU (although the exact model would help determine this), RAM (just add another 4GB) and HDDs. Selling the rest will help money wise.

If you're just gaming look to the 4670K and a Z87 UD3H as your PC backbone.

Thanks, I've looked up your suggestions, they look solid (I can't remember my PSU - I think it's a TruePower 650W).

Are there any advantages to hexa-core processors? What if I factor in a projected price decrease over the next 12 months (when I'm likely to buy)?

Also, what are the usual main differentiators when it comes to motherboards? As in, what features would separate a high-end motherboard from a mid-range one?

 

[Diablos]

On the FX vs i3 debate

An FX6350 may have been a decent decision as a budget-oriented gaming processor when it was first released, as a 2-4 year machine. As it is now, it's a terrible decision. No PCI-E 3.0, likely a dead socket, no viable upgrade path.

Right now, it's as simple as this. If you want solid gaming performance, want a judder free MP experience, and even do stuff like encode via PLEX, then the i3 is a superior option any way you look at it. Throw in the fact that you have tons of upgrade options down the line, and the comparison starts to look even more slanted. There's no argument with any objective data that says otherwise. Stop being foolish.

If you aren't picky about solid performance, don't play a lot of MP games, and have a lot of media creation uses for your PC, the FX series might be a decent option. This is doubly true if you never ever plan on upgrading the processor. What confuses this, is that the person listed here likely wouldn't notice any difference between an i3 and FX6350. That being the case, they might as well go on with an i3 system so they have a future upgrade path. In fact, the only person we are left with is someone that cares about general usage/multimedia creation benchmark data and performance, and less so about gaming benchmark data and performance.

That latter category, Diablos, is extremely niche here. Deal with it. Stop trying to confuse people with bad advice.

How can I be giving bad advice if I'm on the same page as you in terms of looking into Haswell i3 from this point forward? You misread me most of the time. Could you have any more of a kneejerk reaction to the mere mention of something that is not Haswell or Sandy Bridge? The only difference is that if someone wants to get something like a 6/8 Core Vishera CPU for some reason, I do not think they are dooming themselves, because that CPU is going to carry them through the next few years regardless. Your talk of upgrade paths is a valid point, but unless your components fail or someone steals your rig, are most budget-oriented systembuilders going to buy an i3 this year and an i5 the next? I sincrely doubt it.

Furthermore, it seems some of you want it both ways -- numerous times I've been told my 6300 is 'fine', but on the other hand the same people will say it's outdated garbage. Frankly, a 6300 being 'fine' is not much different than a 2500K like your thread title states, but you wouldn't want to acknowledge it there, I just have a feeling. Based on initial reactions to the mere mention of Vishera, you'd think it would run games like a slideshow. And for the billionth time there is absolutely NOTHING niche about general performance and multimedia creation. A bit arrogant to think that such computing tasks are 'niche'.

So if a someone comes in here and has a FX 6300 and a Radeon 7770, what are you going to tell him to upgrade first? Because those kinds of questions are completely valid in this topic. I'd argue a newer GPU with a >256-bit memory bus is much more important in that scenario.

They don't understand gaming performance very well. That's what this thread is about.

You have got to be kidding.

So I've decided to transition my FM2+ HTPC to a gaming PC.

...

AMD A10-7850K Quad Core APU
16GB G.Skill Ripjaws X 2400Mhz
Asus A88XM-Plus FM2+
Sapphire Radeon 290X 4GB 'BF4 Edition'
750W Corsair RM750 w/Individually Sleeved Cables
120GB Samsung 840 Evo
1TB Seagate HDD
Corsair 350D
Corsair H100i
Corsair K30 Keyboard
Corsair M65 Mouse
Corsair Quiet Edition 120mm/140mm Fans
NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller
Dell U2414H Monitor

Yes, this is fine. You aren't messing around with the GPU and that will go a long way. Just don't go to Denny's after you build it, please ;-)

 

[kharma45]

Thanks, I've looked up your suggestions, they look solid (I can't remember my PSU - I think it's a TruePower 650W).

Are there any advantages to hexa-core processors? What if I factor in a projected price decrease over the next 12 months (when I'm likely to buy)?

Also, what are the usual main differentiators when it comes to motherboards? As in, what features would separate a high-end motherboard from a mid-range one?

Going hexacore is going to cost you big bucks right now since you have to go Socket 2011 and for gaming it brings little to no advantage.

CPU prices are relatively static, although you might get a cheaper Socket 2011 6-core offering wit Haswell-E launches, although new motherboards and DDR4 RAM will likely offset that saving.

PSU should be fine.

As for the mobo stuff like the ethernet majigger (word escapes me), the on board sound, power phases, VRMs and their cooling, number of expansion and SATA slots. They can look better too.

 

[kharma45]

How can I be giving bad advice if I'm on the same page as you in terms of looking into Haswell i3 from this point forward? You misread me most of the time. Could you have any more of a kneejerk reaction to the mere mention of something that is not Haswell or Sandy Bridge? The only difference is that if someone wants to get something like a 6/8 Core Vishera CPU for some reason, I do not think they are dooming themselves, because that CPU is going to carry them through the next few years regardless. Your talk of upgrade paths is a valid point, but unless your components fail or someone steals your rig, are most budget-oriented systembuilders going to buy an i3 this year and an i5 the next? I sincrely doubt it.

Furthermore, it seems some of you want it both ways -- numerous times I've been told my 6300 is 'fine', but on the other hand the same people will say it's outdated garbage. Frankly, a 6300 being 'fine' is not much different than a 2500K like your thread title states, but you wouldn't want to acknowledge it there, I just have a feeling. Based on initial reactions to the mere mention of Vishera, you'd think it would run games like a slideshow. And for the billionth time there is absolutely NOTHING niche about general performance and multimedia creation. A bit arrogant to think that such computing tasks are 'niche'.

So if a someone comes in here and has a FX 6300 and a Radeon 7770, what are you going to tell him to upgrade first? Because those kinds of questions are completely valid in this topic. I'd argue a newer GPU with a >256-bit memory bus is much more important in that scenario.


You have got to be kidding.

Please don't try to put the FX 6300 and the 2500K in the same category.

Look, I'm going to be very blunt. You're talking absolute fucking bollocks here mate and you don't understand what we're trying to tell you.

Of course if someone comes in with an FX6300 and a 7770 it's obvious which to change, but that's not what we're fucking getting at here. If someone already has an FX CPU that's fine, it's not worth changing at this point, the damage is done. What we're trying to do is stop people buying mediocre kit and get the best stuff for their pound/dollar/euro/zloty whatever.

 

[kennah]

Who was this?

This guy. Asked a bunch of questions. Took some advice.

What CPU would you guys recommend to go along with a R9 290?

Not looking for something that will require insane cooling/messing around. I normally just go with the stock cooler and that's it.

I just wanna play BF4 at stable 60fps really.

Would a i5-3470 be too much of a step down? Cause I can get a sweet deal on one.

I can get a 3570K for pretty much the same price as a 4670K (171€/176€) so can go with either, I'm guessing the 4670k is the best choice for only 5€ more. Won't the 6MB cache be a problem? Even mine has 8MB.


Also found a decent deal for a Hyper 212, so I guess that's going in too.

Well that settled then. And just like that I spent more then the cost of a PS4 in just a few weeks -.-

470€ and that's not counting the MB that I'm still gonna have to look up. Better not let me down Gabe.



I don't think my PSU is going to be able to handle overclocking after the new CPU.

Man those Z87 boards are expensive. You guys are killing me. Are they really necessary? Can't I just overclock on cheaper boards?

Sorry If you buy cheap, you're just going to buy again sooner. That extra bit on the K and Z87 will extend the life of your CPU by two years easily.

Why is that? My lousy cheap p7p55d lets me overclock and it worked quit well using default bios profiles.

Also mines an i5 and $130 is more then i can spend right now after what I already spent argh. Next month maybe.

Because the CPUs are designed for over clocking now (and Intel is preventing over clocking in the bios of the cheaper boards, sadly). You can still do it the 'old fashioned way' with Bus Speeds and such, but for the multiplier unlocks (which are safer and better) you need the higher end chipsets.

Then you're better off waiting... It's that big of an increase.

I see... :/

We'll, I'll have to sleep on it then, but I might just get a B series and forget about overclocking for now and later on upgrade.

Lets do this!

You better be right GAF!

 

[Diablos]

Please don't try to put the FX 6300 and the 2500K in the same category.

Ugh, who said I ever was? I'm saying that if someone already has one and they're torn on what to upgrade next (i.e. CPU or really outdated GPU), their 6300 is 'fine' as well. The comparisons begin and end there. It isn't like I disregarded the fact that i5 has superior IPC or anything like that. Kneejerk, kneejerk, kneejerk!

Look, I'm going to be very blunt. You're talking absolute fucking bollocks here mate and you don't understand what we're trying to tell you.

...

Of course if someone comes in with an FX6300 and a 7770 it's obvious which to change

You could have fooled me and a lot of other people.

I'm not talking bullocks by stressing general computing and multimedia are also important aspects of any PC. And regardless I actually tend to agree Haswell is now the way to go if you are a gamer, starting fresh and trying to save money! Even if I place less importance on this, mkenyon is still right in pointing out that Haswell is not on a dead socket whereas AM3+ probably has no more than year to go as AMD has been quiet on that front.

 

[MadSexual]

Worth noting too that 4GB is overkill at present on a 1080p screen and I would imagine you'll be looking to upgrade from the 770 before the 4GB of VRAM is relevant in most titles. Your call though!

Is this also true when dowmsampling? Playing at 1080 makes sense, but outputting a higher res that gets scaled by the monitor would still seem to want the extra ram.

 

[Azzurri]

I'm really hoping we see official news on the GTX 790 and Dual R9 290X. I'm itching to build an mITX build.

Only good thing is that, the case I want doesn't release until Feb 28th.

 

[kennah]

Is this also true when dowmsampling? Playing at 1080 makes sense, but outputting a higher res that gets scaled by the monitor would still seem to want the extra ram.

If downsampling is your aim, then sure go for the 770 4gig. A lot of the time we make recommendations based on what someone who doesn't know exactly what they're after would want. Since you know about downsampling it means you've done a bit of research yourself.

I'm really hoping we see official news on the GTX 790 and Dual R9 290X. I'm itching to build an mITX build.

Only good thing is that, the case I want doesn't release until Feb 28th.

What case?

 

[Azzurri]

What case?

Corsair 250D

 

[Miguel81]

Ugh, who said I ever was? I'm saying that if someone already has one and they're torn on what to upgrade next (i.e. CPU or really outdated GPU), their 6300 is 'fine' as well. The comparisons begin and end there. It isn't like I disregarded the fact that i5 has superior IPC or anything like that. Kneejerk, kneejerk, kneejerk!


You could have fooled me and a lot of other people.

I'm not talking bullocks by stressing general computing and multimedia are also important aspects of any PC. And regardless I actually tend to agree Haswell is now the way to go if you are a gamer, starting fresh and trying to save money! Even if I place less importance on this, mkenyon is still right in pointing out that Haswell is not on a dead socket whereas AM3+ probably has no more than year to go as AMD has been quiet on that front.

The guy said if you have an FX proc, then the damage in done, smh . The damage would only have been done if I paired an i3 with my 7950. Those procs are ripoffs. Either get an i5 k-series or an FX(6000+) if you want to go cheaper.

 

[mkenyon]

Ugh, who said I ever was? I'm saying that if someone already has one and they're torn on what to upgrade next (i.e. CPU or really outdated GPU), their 6300 is 'fine' as well. The comparisons begin and end there. It isn't like I disregarded the fact that i5 has superior IPC or anything like that. Kneejerk, kneejerk, kneejerk!

You did.

Frankly, a 6300 being 'fine' is not much different than a 2500K like your thread title states, but you wouldn't want to acknowledge it there, I just have a feeling.

Maybe people misreading you is in fact confusing writing?

The guy said if you have an FX proc, then the damage in done, smh . The damage would only have been done if I paired an i3 with my 7950. Those procs are ripoffs. Either get an i5 k-series or an FX(6000+) if you want to go cheaper.

From another thread explaining the importance of IPC for multiplayer games.

A lot of people don't understand that FPS =/= Performance. It's a decent way to get a good look of what is roughly going on, but it fails to capture where the system is really hanging up, as it's averaging all the frames rendered over one second into a single figure.

Multiplayer games, especially ones with a large amount of people on screen, are always CPU demanding. Translating game state between all of players is a very heavy task. Throw in stuff like physics, and you start to really tax the processor.

Okay, so here you have one section of gameplay. Each frame is listed in milliseconds how long it took to render.

Over on the left, we have the low settings, and on the right, we have high settings.

In both instances, you have the game totally chugging around the same few frames, let's say an explosion happens that causes this. Despite both getting around the same poor performance for that situation, we have a drastically different average.

For the Low Settings, if you average out the length it took to render each frame, it is 20.8ms, which is about 48 frames per second.

For the High Settings, the average is 25.2ms, which is about 39 frames per second.

So in the case of turning down graphic settings, you will see an increase of "frames per second", but that's because frames per second is a really really inaccurate way to measure performance when you are talking about something that is insanely precise as our ability to perceive the illusion of motion.

Despite one being "clearly better", that 300-400ms of gameplay is going to feel like shit in either case, because of those absolutely nasty frames where the time to render goes well above 50ms. Now imagine if it were data from a full 1000ms. Now imagine data from 60 seconds, a total of 60,000ms.

The processor is making the game chug, but how much it's chugging is being hidden because those frames are being averaged out with a bunch of other frames that came out fine over the course of a full second.

So when you say, "I'm getting a stable 60fps", that's not quite accurate. The game could very well be spitting out frames lower than 16.7ms (60fps), but then you're still having frames that are going well above that. They average out to be above or right around 60fps at even a minimum, but that isn't the whole story, as you can see above.

And this thread about Frame Latency/Frame Times should be read as well.

*edit*

There's very few people in this thread who actually get to use multiple systems. From a subjective/anecdotal standpoint, in the last 3-4 years, I've gamed/do game on an FM2 6800K, i3 3220, 2500K, Phenom II 960/975/980, 3570K, 3820, 4770K, FX-6300, and even a non-K 2600. Those have all been paired with a variety of videocards.

Most of my gaming is competitive multiplayer stuff. I can tell you bluntly that the 6300 and 975 have a choppiness to them that does not exist on SB->Haswell Intel processors. They stutter and have moments where frame latency exceeds 50ms and makes games feel bad in comparison.

For the type of person who isn't too concerned about that, then they're better served with a platform that has a future and a decent upgrade path. There's basically a tiny fraction of people left out in this either/or category, and they're totally fine with whatever they choose that best suits them. There's no attacking that person for making a bad decision, as it wasn't. It was a good decision for them.

But it's generally not going to be a good decision for a striking majority of gamers.

 

[Diablos]

You did.

Before I saw the new Haswell i3 benches? Sure.

Maybe people misreading you is in fact confusing writing?

Not really, because from the start of my argument today I've already stressed that Haswell i3 is really starting to put the FX line up against the wall especially for gaming.

 

[mkenyon]

I think you missed my second bit of quoted material. That was you comparing that the FX6300 and i5's are both "fine". Whether or not you intended to confuse people by seemingly comparing them, that's what you did with your writing.

Maybe this is all miscommunication?

 

[Diablos]

I think you missed my second bit of quoted material. That was you comparing that the FX6300 and i5's are both "fine". Whether or not you intended to confuse people by seemingly comparing them, that's what you did with your writing.

Maybe this is all miscommunication?

Maybe. I mean "fine" if someone thinks they need to spend another $300-400+ on a new rig at the moment. If someone just put together a build with a 6300 in the past 12 months and they are budget-oriented (the type of person you often speak to in this thread), I'd say their 6300 rig is just as 'fine' as their 2500K even if the tech isn't as good; it isn't like they have a Q8200 or something. It would make more sense to upgrade the GPU for now if it is really lacking, for example. I'd rather toss my 660 aside in favor for a 760 or higher (or at least something with a 256-bit bus) over tossing aside my AM3+ board for Haswell, but I should have thought about that last year. And from that standpoint it seems like the mere mention of someone having a Vishera for any reason in this thread is toxic especially based on the way some people react to the mere mention of it. Looking ahead, though, things are certainly changing with Haswell i3 and all for budget builders starting over. Kaveri's prowess remains to be seen. Maybe better drivers will help. I don't know. They just delayed Mantle.

As for your 6300/975 rigs dropping frames/lagging, what GPU were you using and did you disable turbo core for AMD? I just set mine at 3.8 GHz and turn off the power saving features save CnQ for when it is idling. I noticed the stuttering stopped being noticable after doing this and power draw isn't looking significantly different. Just curious.

 

[mkenyon]

As for your 6300/975 rigs dropping frames/lagging, what GPU were you using and did you disable turbo core for AMD? I just set mine at 3.8 GHz and turn off the power saving features save CnQ for when it is idling. I noticed the stuttering stopped being noticable after doing this and power draw isn't looking significantly different. Just curious.

7970 on the 6300. I had a 975 rig with a 5870 (and 5870 crossfire), 960 with a 6870. 975 was even OC'd to 4.3GHz. I always turn off power saving features as I always overclock.

 

[Pachimari]

That motherboard won't fit in that case. It's too big. You would need a Z87M or a larger case.

Just find any cheap IR module and get a Logitech Harmony to control Plex. BluRay burner only if you're going to be burning lots of blur ays. Otherwise it's a waste of money. Silence depends on airflow plus the fans you use. Would need more info on which particular GTX 770 you are getting. If it is one with multiple fans it will be quiet, if it has a single fan it'll be noisy.

I honestly don't know what I should get. I would assume I would get a GTX 770 with multiple fans as I want it to be quiet. Shouldn't it be water-cooling?

Also, I'm totally new to building my own Gaming PC.

 

[Deaf Spacker]

Hi PC GAF, I'm after a new monitor but I have no idea what I'm looking for apart from a few things:

No bigger than 23 inches
Must be full HD
I'd like it to look nice design wise as well as picture wise

I currently have two 680 GTX 4GB GPU's so 120 refresh rate would be nice but not necessary.

Anybody got any recommendations?

 

[Diablos]

7970 on the 6300. I had a 975 rig with a 5870 (and 5870 crossfire), 960 with a 6870. 975 was even OC'd to 4.3GHz. I always turn off power saving features as I always overclock.

Hmm. I see. I don't notice any of the lag you speak of, not that I don't believe you. I do notice lower FPS than I want at times, because my 660 has problems at 1080p with bigger scenes at very high/ultra detail levels, but that is typical for a 660.

 

[mkenyon]

Hi PC GAF, I'm after a new monitor but I have no idea what I'm looking for apart from a few things:

No bigger than 23 inches
Must be full HD
I'd like it to look nice design wise as well as picture wise

I currently have two 680 GTX 4GB GPU's so 120 refresh rate would be nice but not necessary.

Anybody got any recommendations?

ASUS VG248QE. Upgrade to G-Sync when/if you want.

Hmm. I see. I don't notice any of the lag you speak of, not that I don't believe you. I do notice lower FPS than I want at times, because my 660 has problems at 1080p with bigger scenes at high detail levels, but that is typical for a 660.

Do you play a lot of MP games? This exists in games that require high IPC. Skyrim would be another good one to point at, Far Cry 3 as well. Source MP games too, like Dota 2.

 

[kennah]

I honestly don't know what I should get. I would assume I would get a GTX 770 with multiple fans as I want it to be quiet. Shouldn't it be water-cooling?

Also, I'm totally new to building my own Gaming PC.

Water cooling is a whole other ballgame, and not really recommended if you're new to PC building. (Also you're looking minimum $600 for a full custom loop). Feel free to ask more questions.

Hi PC GAF, I'm after a new monitor but I have no idea what I'm looking for apart from a few things:

No bigger than 23 inches
Must be full HD
I'd like it to look nice design wise as well as picture wise

I currently have two 680 GTX 4GB GPU's so 120 refresh rate would be nice but not necessary.

Anybody got any recommendations?

None of the ones in the OP strike your fancy?

 

[Diablos]

ASUS VG248QE. Upgrade to G-Sync when/if you want.

Do you play a lot of MP games? This exists in games that require high IPC. Skyrim would be another good one to point at, Far Cry 3 as well. Source MP games too, like Dota 2.

Currently FFXIV and Planetside 2. I have played Skyrim, FC3 and Dota 2, however, but not much. Never had any problems.

 

[justsomeguy]

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-msi-radeon-r9-270-gaming-2g-28nm-5600mhz-gddr5-gpu-900mhz-boost-975mhz-1280-streams-dp-dvi-hdmi[/url]

I've gone ahead and picked up that card (from overclockers.co.uk thanks to the 1% quidco cashback and slightly cheaper delivery) thanks for the suggestion, especially for a card that seems so whisper quiet as it's replacing a passively cooled silent runner.

Time for every game to get CPU bound (i7 920) - time to get the overclock going again... had it at 4.2 once, let's hope it can still get there...

 

[Deaf Spacker]

ASUS VG248QE. Upgrade to G-Sync when/if you want

None of the ones in the OP strike your fancy?

Thanks, I have seen this in the OP but for some reason I don't like the stand. I'm sure it's an excellent monitor and it's probably a silly thing to turn my nose up at, I'll read some reviews.

 

[mkenyon]

Yeah, it's really significant in PS2. Had a LAN where I had a buddy with an Lynnfield 750, another with an 8350. They were both using GTX 670s. It seriously ran better on the 750. I ended up building a 2500K system for him out of some spare parts (8350 guy) as he instantly saw the difference.

If you're telling me you're not noticing hitching in PS2 with that 6300, I'm not sure how else I can explain it. Maybe it'd stand out more if you played on another machine back to back?

Thanks, I have seen this in the OP but for some reason I don't like the stand. I'm sure it's an excellent monitor and it's probably a silly thing to turn my nose up at, I'll read some reviews.

Swap it out with a VESA stand of your choice. Though it does height/tilt/rotation adjustments already.

 

[Abdozer]

Man, reading those posts make me regret not getting an Intel CPU. I had to go with a FX-8320, don't get me wrong. It's a big upgrade from my previous Core2Duo E8400 but I wish I had saved more money and got an Intel equivalent to that.

 

[Pachimari]

So is this what I should get?

CPU
i7 4770K 4C/8T

Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD3H

RAM
2x8 (16GB)

Graphics
GTX 770 4GB

SSD
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB

Storage
2TB HDD

Power Supply
CoolerMaster V700

Case
Z87M

Optical Drive
SATA DVD Burner

Heatsink
Corsair H60

Sound Card
Xonar DGX

I will drop the Blu-ray drive and water-cooling but is it something which can be added later on?

 

[Diablos]

Yeah, it's really significant in PS2. Had a LAN where I had a buddy with an Lynnfield 750, another with an 8350. They were both using GTX 670s. It seriously ran better on the 750. I ended up building a 2500K system for him out of some spare parts (8350 guy) as he instantly saw the difference.

If you're telling me you're not noticing hitching in PS2 with that 6300, I'm not sure how else I can explain it. Maybe it'd stand out more if you played on another machine back to back?

Maybe. I run everything at high @ 1080p and except for when the game first loads there's nothing significant that is hindering my enjoyment of the game. I don't have anything to compare it to. As a caveat I will say I know some people who play these games with FX builds, are quite good, and never complain of these issues.

 

[Deaf Spacker]

Swap it out with a VESA stand of your choice. Though it does height/tilt/rotation adjustments already.

That's a fine idea.

 

[mkenyon]

Maybe. I run everything at high @ 1080p and except for when the game first loads there's nothing significant that is hindering my enjoyment of the game. I don't have anything to compare it to. As a caveat I will say I know some people who play these games with FX builds, are quite good, and never complain of these issues.

I know what you mean.

I held off on actually finally going through with a SB build for a really long time, even building the 975/Crosshair IV/5870 machine after the 2500Ks were out. It wasn't until the following November that I jumped in. I had gotten very used to the hitching and funkiness, always wrote it off as "MP PC Gaming Performance" that I'd be accustomed to.

But when I finally did make the switch, it was insane how many games I'd been playing that were now incredible feeling. APB was the big game back then, and UE3 just loves high IPC, doubly so in MP UE3 games. It made such a huge difference.

But this goes back to my original point of the person who isn't too demanding of their PC's performance. Might as well get a system that has an upgrade future if you're not likely to notice these things.

So is this what I should get?

CPU
i7 4770K 4C/8T

Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD3H

RAM
2x8 (16GB)

Graphics
GTX 770 4GB

SSD
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB

Storage
2TB HDD

Power Supply
CoolerMaster V700

Case
Z87M

Optical Drive
SATA DVD Burner

Heatsink
Corsair H60

Sound Card
Xonar DGX

I will drop the Blu-ray drive and water-cooling but is it something which can be added later on?

I'd suggest going down to a 4670K unless you don't mind at all spending an extra $100 for possible slight performance gains in the future. That's meant very seriously, as I personally went with the 4770K.

Swap out the PSU for something less expensive, unless you are looking to to SLI in the near future.

*edit*

What's a Z87M case?

 

[Bboy AJ]

Fractal Node and 4670k finally dropped on Newegg. Now all I need to do is buy RAM and I'm set.

 

[kennah]

So is this what I should get?

CPU
i7 4770K 4C/8T

Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD3H

RAM
2x8 (16GB)

Graphics
GTX 770 4GB

SSD
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB

Storage
2TB HDD

Power Supply
CoolerMaster V700

Case
Z87M

Optical Drive
SATA DVD Burner

Heatsink
Corsair H60

Sound Card
Xonar DGX

I will drop the Blu-ray drive and water-cooling but is it something which can be added later on?

What case are you getting? That's a motherboard, not a case.

 

[kharma45]

So is this what I should get?

CPU
i7 4770K 4C/8T

Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD3H

RAM
2x8 (16GB)

Graphics
GTX 770 4GB

SSD
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB

Storage
2TB HDD

Power Supply
CoolerMaster V700

Case
Z87M

Optical Drive
SATA DVD Burner

Heatsink
Corsair H60

Sound Card
Xonar DGX

I will drop the Blu-ray drive and water-cooling but is it something which can be added later on?

What case?

and yes you could add those things down the line.

I've gone ahead and picked up that card (from overclockers.co.uk thanks to the 1% quidco cashback and slightly cheaper delivery) thanks for the suggestion, especially for a card that seems so whisper quiet as it's replacing a passively cooled silent runner.

Time for every game to get CPU bound (i7 920) - time to get the overclock going again... had it at 4.2 once, let's hope it can still get there...

It is quiet card, MSI did a great job with the TFIV cooler. It should hopefully overclock for you too, saw some reviews of getting it up to 1150MHz or thereabouts. Worth a try to see how close you can get to 1.2GHz.

Yeah get that i7s legs stretched again. 4.2GHz is the very top end OC for them, getting to 4GHz is plenty good if you can't get to 4.2 with reasonable temps and volts.

 

[Diablos]

I know what you mean.

I held off on actually finally going through with a SB build for a really long time, even building the 975/Crosshair IV/5870 machine after the 2500Ks were out. It wasn't until the following November that I jumped in. I had gotten very used to the hitching and funkiness, always wrote it off as "MP PC Gaming Performance" that I'd be accustomed to.

But when I finally did make the switch, it was insane how many games I'd been playing that were now incredible feeling. APB was the big game back then, and UE3 just loves high IPC, doubly so in MP UE3 games. It made such a huge difference.

But this goes back to my original point of the person who isn't too demanding of their PC's performance. Might as well get a system that has an upgrade future if you're not likely to notice these things.

I don't discredit your opinion nor do I scoff at your observations at all. I just don't know if it is worth telling someone to trash their 6300 and spend ~$200 or more on a new Intel board/CPU already, when they just built their rig around a year or so ago -- especially if you are budget-oriented. I've never had dropped frames hinder my gaming experience or anything like that with my 6300, sure it was choppier before I disabled all the power saving features but still perfectly playable (ESPECIALLY compared to console gaming). That's all. I also tend to think general computing/multitasking/multimedia is still an important aspect of using a PC. Beyond that I honestly do not have any other disagreement with you, AMD is starting to lag behind Intel's latest offerings for gaming and it shows, so if you are starting fresh you should probably just get Haswell or Sandy Bridge.

 

[kennah]

I don't discredit your opinion nor do I scoff at your observations at all. I just don't know if it is worth telling someone to trash their 6300 and spend ~$200 or more on a new Intel board/CPU already, when they just built their rig around a year or so ago -- especially if you are budget-oriented. I've never had dropped frames hinder my gaming experience or anything like that with my 6300, sure it was choppier before I disabled all the power saving features but still perfectly playable (ESPECIALLY compared to console gaming). That's all. I also tend to think general computing/multitasking/multimedia is still an important aspect of using a PC. Beyond that I honestly do not have any other disagreement with you, AMD is starting to lag behind Intel's latest offerings for gaming and it shows, so if you are starting fresh you should probably just get Haswell or Sandy Bridge.

WE ARE NOT TELLING ANYONE TO GET RID OF THEIR 6300s

The recommendations are for NEW BUILDS.

 

[kharma45]

I don't discredit your opinion nor do I scoff at your observations at all. I just don't know if it is worth telling someone to trash their 6300 and spend ~$200 or more on a new Intel board/CPU already, when they just built their rig around a year or so ago -- especially if you are budget-oriented. I've never had dropped frames hinder my gaming experience or anything like that with my 6300, sure it was choppier before I disabled all the power saving features but still perfectly playable (ESPECIALLY compared to console gaming). That's all. I also tend to think general computing/multitasking/multimedia is still an important aspect of using a PC. Beyond that I honestly do not have any other disagreement with you, AMD is starting to lag behind Intel's latest offerings for gaming and it shows, so if you are starting fresh you should probably just get Haswell or Sandy Bridge.

hahahahaha omg

WE ARE NOT DOING THIS PLEASE UNDERSTAND

Also AMD are not starting to lag behind. They've been behind for YEARS.

This guy. Asked a bunch of questions. Took some advice.

Oh I remember that now.

 

[AJLma]

One thing I learned recently that I hadn't read in this thread is that Intel has way superior memory controllers than AMD. Intel processors are 2-3 times as fast at reading/writing/accessing RAM.

Does anyone understand what kind of performance difference that makes when gaming and during general computing?

 

[kennah]

One thing I learned recently that I hadn't read in this thread is that Intel has way superior memory controllers than AMD. Intel processors are 2-3 times as fast at reading/writing/accessing RAM.

Does anyone understand what kind of performance difference that makes when gaming and during general computing?

None

 

[Pachimari]

So this should be what I'm looking at?

CPU
i5 4670K 4C/4T

Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD3H

RAM
2x8 (16GB)

Graphics
GTX 770 4GB

SSD
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB

Storage
2TB HDD

Power Supply
CoolerMaster V700

Case
- ???

Optical Drive
SATA DVD Burner

Heatsink
Corsair H60

Sound Card
Xonar DGX

Which case should I look for and what can such a set-up handle?

 

[kiyomi]

You're talking 10-15% better performance as well as the Nvidia niceties.

Don't discount the regular R9 270. Cheaper than the R9 270 even though it's the same GPU. Only difference is clock speed and at stock it's a 5% performance difference.

This one is clocked 25MHz below the 270X at stock so you'd be talking almost identical performance

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-...-900mhz-boost-975mhz-1280-streams-dp-dvi-hdmi

£127.55 before delivery. It'll possibly not overclock as far as the R9 270X has dual 6 pin connectors over the single 6 pin of the 270.

Interesting, thanks. I guess I discounted the 760 because the performance increase seemed kind of small for the price. Do you have any recommendations on 760s within that £180 margin?

Sorry to ask so many questions, I'm new to all this.

 

[kharma45]

Interesting, thanks. I guess I discounted the 760 because the performance increase seemed kind of small for the price. Do you have any recommendations on 760s within that £180 margin?

Sorry to ask so many questions, I'm new to all this.

Not for £180, nearer £200 http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-...-6008mhz-gddr5-gpu-1085mhz-boost-1150mhz-core

or

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-118-GI

CCL does free delivery on them

http://www.cclonline.com/product/11...DDR5-1085MHz-2x-DVI-DisplayPort-HDMI/VGA1676/