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"I Need a New PC!" 2014 Part 2. Read OP, your 2500K will run Witcher 3. MX100s! 970!

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Wouldn't know where to begin, but happy to research and learn.

What are the primary risks?

Not really any as long as you keep your voltage/heat down.

The reason I asked is because the Pentium would perform like crap (but still better than your current setup due to the Haswell IPC) unless you everclock it. Overclocked, it should have no problems with WoW.

So if you aren't willing to overclock you should buy a better CPU, if you are going to overclock there's no point spending the extra money since the Pentium AE overclocks like a champ.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
The only thing I'm confused about is how do case fans hook up..

1 Are there special little wires for them?

2 How do they get the information to go faster or slower?

3 Do I need a fan controller?

Here's what build I want.
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/RayWonder/saved/zXYQzy

I'm not sure which fans, or how many fans I should get. Can someone help me out with that?
 

Amneisac

Member
The only thing I'm confused about is how do case fans hook up..

1 Are there special little wires for them?

2 How do they get the information to go faster or slower?

3 Do I need a fan controller?

Here's what build I want.
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/RayWonder/saved/zXYQzy

I'm not sure which fans, or how many fans I should get. Can someone help me out with that?

A few pages back (starting at post #4265) a few kind GAFfers helped me with a lot of fan questions. I'll give you what I understand as a crash course, and others can correct me if I'm wrong.

There are 3 pin motherboard headers and 4 pin motherboard headers (you'll need to check your specific model to see which you have - update: your board has two CPU fan connectors, one is PWM the other isn't - and three system fan headers and none of them are PWM). All 3 pin headers are voltage controlled, so the speed of the fan is controlled by altering the voltage being supplied to the fan. It's basically just a DC motor with a blade on it, so more power = faster fan.

4 pin headers sometimes have what they call PWM or pulse width modulation, which uses the fourth pin to control the speed of the fan. It does this by essentially sending pulses of power to the fan (like turning it off and on really fast) and allows for more gradual control of the fan speed. A lot of motherboards have PWM headers for the CPU fan, but a lot of the other headers (even if they have four pins) might not be be PWM.

So you have 3 pin and 4 pin headers on the motheboard (where you can plug the fans up), and you also have 3 pin and 4 pin cables depending on whether your fans are PWM or not. You can plug a 3 pin fan on a 4 pin header in most cases.

You can also use a molex to fan cable adapter and not connect the fan to the motherboard at all. If you do this, the fan always gets 12v and will always be blowing wide open.

There are inexpensive fan hubs that do the same thing. With this product you can connect up to 10 fans, but they'll always be blowing wide open.

You can also buy a fan controller, which can either be PWM or voltage controller. I bought this one: NZXT Sentry Mix 2This will take power from one or more molex connectors from your power supply and send it to your fans. You plug your fans up to the controller, and you adjust the speed of the fans by moving the sliders up and down.

There also fancier setups involving PWM, but I don't really know as much about those. They involve using a special PWM splitter on a PWM fan header and spreading that signal to all your fans, and all fans are essentially controlled by the motherboard PWM settings.

Bottom line, to me at least, is how much noise you want. If you don't care about noise, just buy a fan hub and let it rip. If you want them to be quieter, you can either buy a fan controller, or you can hook them up to your motherboard and adjust the voltage through software on your computer.

EDIT TO ADD: I have the motherboard you are interested in and it only has ONE pwm header for the CPU fan, everything else will be voltage controlled.
 
350D, Arc Mini, Node 804, and probably the SG09/SG10.
Apparently the N200 as well.

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cases/34754-cm-n200?start=4

Edit: maybe, depends on CPU placement on mobo.

It is alarming how much room is available inside considering the short stature and compact size. I even tried to install a 171mm tall Phanteks TC-14PE CPU cooler and I was able to close the side panel without any problems. This is taller than the 160mm clearance stated on the N-series product page and the protruded side-panel design definitely helps by providing a bit more room. Granted, I tested it with a mini-ITX motherboard as I do not have a micro-ATX board on hand so I can see some people not having the exact same CPU cooler height allowance as I have, since mini-ITX motherboards have a lower positioned CPU area compared to most micro-ATX boards. The clearance at the roof is very little, and although there is room for a fan for exhaust, some heatsinks might not have enough clearance even without any fans installed. There is also no cable routing hole for the 8-pin CPU power connector in the corner, which is unfortunate as it has to be routed on top of the motherboard.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
A few pages back (starting at post #4265) a few kind GAFfers helped me with a lot of fan questions. I'll give you what I understand as a crash course, and others can correct me if I'm wrong.

There are 3 pin motherboard headers and 4 pin motherboard headers (you'll need to check your specific model to see which you have - update: your board has two CPU fan connectors, one is PWM the other isn't - and three system fan headers and none of them are PWM). All 3 pin headers are voltage controlled, so the speed of the fan is controlled by altering the voltage being supplied to the fan. It's basically just a DC motor with a blade on it, so more power = faster fan.

4 pin headers sometimes have what they call PWM or pulse width modulation, which uses the fourth pin to control the speed of the fan. It does this by essentially sending pulses of power to the fan (like turning it off and on really fast) and allows for more gradual control of the fan speed. A lot of motherboards have PWM headers for the CPU fan, but a lot of the other headers (even if they have four pins) might not be be PWM.

So you have 3 pin and 4 pin headers on the motheboard (where you can plug the fans up), and you also have 3 pin and 4 pin cables depending on whether your fans are PWM or not. You can plug a 3 pin fan on a 4 pin header in most cases.

You can also use a molex to fan cable adapter and not connect the fan to the motherboard at all. If you do this, the fan always gets 12v and will always be blowing wide open.

There are inexpensive fan hubs that do the same thing. With this product you can connect up to 10 fans, but they'll always be blowing wide open.

You can also buy a fan controller, which can either be PWM or voltage controller. I bought this one: NZXT Sentry Mix 2This will take power from one or more molex connectors from your power supply and send it to your fans. You plug your fans up to the controller, and you adjust the speed of the fans by moving the sliders up and down.

There also fancier setups involving PWM, but I don't really know as much about those. They involve using a special PWM splitter on a PWM fan header and spreading that signal to all your fans, and all fans are essentially controlled by the motherboard PWM settings.

Bottom line, to me at least, is how much noise you want. If you don't care about noise, just buy a fan hub and let it rip. If you want them to be quieter, you can either buy a fan controller, or you can hook them up to your motherboard and adjust the voltage through software on your computer.

EDIT TO ADD: I have the motherboard you are interested in and it only has ONE pwm header for the CPU fan, everything else will be voltage controlled.

This helped a LOT. Thanks.
 

Stubo

Member
After a few week saving and selling various crappy items on Ebay I'm in the process of ordering a system. I need a little final help, out of the two following systems which would you advise me on getting:

PCPartPicker part list: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/3GqkWZ
Price breakdown by merchant: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/3GqkWZ/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor (£231.54 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright HR-02 Rev.A(BW) 73.6 CFM CPU Cooler (£37.65 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97-HD3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£80.56 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£126.19 @ Scan.co.uk)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£52.79 @ Aria PC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 770 2GB Superclocked ACX Video Card (£249.99 @ Ebuyer)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (£58.74 @ Aria PC)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£83.70 @ Scan.co.uk)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer (£14.95 @ Amazon UK)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter (£26.87 @ Aria PC)

Total: £962.98

or

PCPartPicker part list: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/WZcn8d
Price breakdown by merchant: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/WZcn8d/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£162.21 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£24.25 @ Scan.co.uk)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£79.16 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£117.79 @ Scan.co.uk)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£80.89 @ Ebuyer)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£59.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card (£228.95 @ Ebuyer)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter (£26.87 @ Aria PC)
Other: CoolerMaster Silencio 352 Black Matt Edition USB3 MicroATX Mini-ITX Case (£45.63)
Other: be quiet! BN181 Pure Power L8 530W CM Modular 80+ Bronze QUIET Power Supply (PSU) (£48.64)

Total: £874.38

Asus Radeon R9 280X 3GB DirectCU II Video Card?

So at the moment the final build looks like this: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/WpTnyc
I've tried to aim between your 2 example price points with a few nice additions, an SSD is absolutely essential IMO:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (£167.94 @ Scan.co.uk)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£24.25 @ Scan.co.uk)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£79.16 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: Kingston Fury Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£114.24 @ CCL Computers)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£77.10 @ Scan.co.uk)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£60.04 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X Video Card (£295.55 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£43.32 @ Amazon UK)
Other: CoolerMaster Silencio 352 Black Matt Edition USB3 MicroATX Mini-ITX Case (£45.63)
Other: Powerline Adapters - 2x 200mb with AC passthrough (£22.98)
Total: £930.21

The powerline adapter listed is far preferable to wireless if you've got a single power circuit shared between your router and PC. There's also a non-passthrough version (£19.30) and a non-passthrough 500Mbps version (£24.99)

The 4690k is preferable to the 4670k for an extra couple of quid, the memory is cheaper and faster (not that this makes a huge difference depending on who you ask).

I've also changed the PSU to one of my favourite 600w units to save money without cutting down on quality - it's worth mentioning that this isn't modular though so it depends how happy you are about cable management in your chosen case - I have no experience with it.

The GPU is a step up from the 280x and provides GTX 780 levels of performance for a very reasonable price.

This is all completely flexible for your tastes and needs of course, I also thought I'd mention the Fractal Define Mini as an alternative silent mATX case, this will run you around £61.99.

Any questions please ask! :D
 

Stubo

Member
damn, I'm on a tight budget, would it really make a big difference?
The Gigabyte 780 Ghz edition is $499 at Newegg and Amazon which has the fastest stock clocks of any 780 (I think). The windforce cooler is excellent, but the Asus and EVGA are both great options also.

If you order from Newegg you also get Watch_dogs for free.
 

mkenyon

Banned
So guys, between the MSI and EVGA 780s wich one would you recommend?
I'd go for an EVGA card first, but they're both great.
Neither. This one is better than both. It clocks like crazy.
That's all on silicon lottery. If you have one that clocks well, or read a review that said it clocks well, it doesn't mean that all do.
The Gigabyte 780 Ghz edition is $499 at Newegg and Amazon which has the fastest stock clocks of any 780 (I think). The windforce cooler is excellent, but the Asus and EVGA are both great options also.

If you order from Newegg you also get Watch_dogs for free.
Yeah, that's faster than all of them out of the box.
 
Looks like a 5,25" drive, so I assume it's a dvd burner. If I'm right at least you got lucky and you can simply replace it. If it was a hard drive you wouldn't be able to recover the data.
Yup you're right on the money. Probably won't replace it though, I haven't used an optical drive in years. :p
 

Palom

Member
I need some help in finding a decent wireless keyboard/mouse. My PC resides in my living room, so wired is not an option. I'm currently using a Logitech keyboard/mouse combo, and previously used an old Microsoft keyboard and mouse. I have had horrible interference problems with these things. I've tried different USB ports for the receiver, and I've tried changing my WiFi router to 5GHz, but it made no difference. The Microsoft accessories I used before I even had WiFi. I get "voids" in reception where nothing is registered for up to 30 seconds, or keys get queued up, the mouse gets jumpy, or the same key is sent 5 times when it's only pressed once. They're only about 3 to 5 feet away from the receiver, depending if I have them on the coffee table or the couch. I don't understand how game controllers can be so consistent and responsive, but keyboard and mice are so terrible. Are there any decent, full-sized keyboards that don't use these stupid 2.4GHz USB receivers?
 

K' Dash

Member
I'd go for an EVGA card first, but they're both great.

That's all on silicon lottery. If you have one that clocks well, or read a review that said it clocks well, it doesn't mean that all do.

Yeah, that's faster than all of them out of the box.

The Gigabyte 780 Ghz edition is $499 at Newegg and Amazon which has the fastest stock clocks of any 780 (I think). The windforce cooler is excellent, but the Asus and EVGA are both great options also.

If you order from Newegg you also get Watch_dogs for free.

Thank you for your answers :)
 

Sky Chief

Member
The Gigabyte 780 Ghz edition is $499 at Newegg and Amazon which has the fastest stock clocks of any 780 (I think). The windforce cooler is excellent, but the Asus and EVGA are both great options also.

If you order from Newegg you also get Watch_dogs for free.

I bought the GHz Edition based on mkenyon's suggestion and then my follow up research and it is amazing. Really high and stable OC out of the box, really good build quality with a backplate and everything, and virtually silent operation all for the same price as competing 780s that have none of these features. Highly recommended!
 
I'd go for an EVGA card first, but they're both great.

That's all on silicon lottery. If you have one that clocks well, or read a review that said it clocks well, it doesn't mean that all do.

Yeah, that's faster than all of them out of the box.

The Asus bios allows more voltage than either the EVGA or MSI. Provided that you're not in a severely limited air-flow case, you'll get higher clocks from more voltage.
 

Stubo

Member
I bought the GHz Edition based on mkenyon's suggestion and then my follow up research and it is amazing. Really high and stable OC out of the box, really good build quality with a backplate and everything, and virtually silent operation all for the same price as competing 780s that have none of these features. Highly recommended!
I have the regular edition windforce 780 (from before the Ghz edition was announced) and can definitely vouch for the quality of the cooler and the 780 in general. You Ghz dudes just make me jealous ;)
 

Martian

Member
Question: How fluctuating are PC part prices (especially GPU and CPU)?

I made a list of components for my PC on a website which shows the combined (and seperate prices), and for the last couple of days the prices have only gone up (at least CPU/GPU/SDD)

So how big are the chances of them returning to lower prices (they were not on sale or anything) and what kind of time should I expect?
 

K' Dash

Member
I have the regular edition windforce 780 (from before the Ghz edition was announced) and can definitely vouch for the quality of the cooler and the 780 in general. You Ghz dudes just make me jealous ;)

It says the recommended PSU for this should be 600W, mine is 550W, should I upgrade my PSU as well?
 

Stubo

Member
It says the recommended PSU for this should be 600W, mine is 550W, should I upgrade my PSU as well?
It depends on the exact model of 550W, if you have a good quality PSU with sufficient ampage on the 12V rail then you should be fine!

If you post the model here one of the resident PSU experts will put your mind at rest.
 

K' Dash

Member
It depends on the exact model of 550W, if you have a good quality PSU with sufficient ampage on the 12V rail then you should be fine!

If you post the model here one of the resident PSU experts will put your mind at rest.

Thank you, this this is the one I have:

Antec BP550 Plus 550W ATX12V V2.3 Modular Power Supply
 
If one of my molex-to-SATA adapters shorted out, could it damage the power supply? Is there any way to test it that won't put the other components at risk?

It's about 5 years old (Corsair TX750). I think it's still good but I don't want to (e.g.) damage my motherboard or CPU in case I'm wrong.
 

K' Dash

Member
It's fine

Yup, you are the winner!

The only comment I'd add would be to use the PCI power cables which come out of the PSU, and not any molex-PCI adapter cables which may be bundled with the GPU.

Thank you guys.

Edit: Just bought it :D

2014-07-11_1604.png


I just changed my shipping speed to 1 day, I literally can't wait.
 

kennah

Member
No offense, but why would anyone buy a Nvidia 700 series card when the 800 series is pretty close by.
I don't understand why people bought 700 series cards that were exactly the same as the 600 series ones.

The 780 is still a solid buy though.
 

Stubo

Member
Probably about 4 months from the latest rumours? It depends if people have a card to get them by until then or if they want to play games with sweet settings right now!

You can always sell your card when the 800 series launches (or sneakily just before to minimise your losses!)
 

mkenyon

Banned
No offense, but why would anyone buy a Nvidia 700 series card when the 800 series is pretty close by.
You can sell parts and upgrade if a system isn't pulling it's weight. It's not like being stuck with something unusable either as the 780 is a beast.
 

hipbabboom

Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
If one of my molex-to-SATA adapters shorted out, could it damage the power supply? Is there any way to test it that won't put the other components at risk?

It's about 5 years old (Corsair TX750). I think it's still good but I don't want to (e.g.) damage my motherboard or CPU in case I'm wrong.

Back in the day (like 1999), I had a cd rom drive short destroy a motherboard, two hard drives and a sound card. The video card and the processor survived :(


EDIT: To your point though, I can't remember if the PSU went or not. AT motherboard and case... different times :)
 
Probably about 4 months from the latest rumours? It depends if people have a card to get them by until then or if they want to play games with sweet settings right now!

You can always sell your card when the 800 series launches (or sneakily just before to minimise your losses!)
or wait and play present and future games on sweeter settings. ;p
 

Amneisac

Member
Learn from my mistakes, children. Too much thermal paste is a bad thing.


I knew when I applied it that I put too much on, but I still put the heat sink on. The next day I thought better about it (I hadn't powered it on) and I removed the heat sink and it was all over the place. Some paste had even worked its way down the side of the CPU and was creeping in toward the pins. I was really worried I was going to have a short...


Cable management turned out pretty decent.


Finished product. It looks pretty awesome now at night with the two white LED fans up top, but my phone can't really capture it in a good photo. Anyways, everything seems okay. I haven't overclocked yet, but I ran OCCT for an hour and the temps seem okay:

8VS0ZaH.png


So looks like nothing was permanently damaged by my thermal paste fuck up and I'll try some overclocking tomorrow!

I've only got a 120gb SSD until my 1TB data drive shows up Monday, so I probably won't do much gaming this weekend, but it still feels good to have it done! Thanks for all the help as I got this thing up and running!
 

Amneisac

Member
Holy shit man.. that is a lot of paste haha

Yeah, I've built four computers before this personally and I work in a freaking IT department so you'd think I'd know better. The only excuse I can make is I'm used to more 'pasty' thermal grease and this stuff was super thin, it's what came with the hyper 212 evo. I just got carried away.

I'm just glad I didn't short anything out.
 
Hey there.
Quick question.
Do i7s/Xeon cpu heatsink fan thingy come with a plastic or something at the bottom to protect the thermal paste?
I installed a xeon cpu and was too excited that I just popped it on - didn't even cross my mind to look at the bottom of it.
 

McBryBry

Member
Welp, it's begun. I bought my first PC part ever today, the Dark Rock 3 cooler that I mentioned yesterday. Proud to say I've started (sort of) the PC life! Now I just have to wait for it so I can take it to a friend's test bench.
 

Diablos

Member
haha, the FX 6300 is out of stock at newegg. I'm quite surprised it is still selling so well.

I have mine at 4192MHz currently... tried to get it past 4300MHz but I can't do that without exceeding max voltage spec of this CPU apparently (as it kept failing at 1.4ish volts). Not really comfortable doing that given that I have the 970A-G46.
 

teiresias

Member
So I've got $100 sitting on Amazon and I'm debating between either:

1) Using it to upgrade my 8GB 1333 DDR3 to 16GB 1600-1866 DDR3 (for use on my Z97 + 4790k). I use Lightroom a fair deal so it would see use there though I've never really noticed horrid issues with it pertaining to RAM yet.

2) Saving it to put towards either an upgrade of my GTX680 to the 800-series whenever they appear or towards the ASUS ROG Swift 1440p G-Sync monitor.

Decisions, decisions . . .
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
Okay, quick question.
I should get a bonus this month, which would allow me to buy a desktop PC.
I'm thinking about getting this one (site is in Japanese, but the part names are in English, shouldn't be a problem).
My question is - how does 2GB 760 hold up? The 780 model they have is way more expensive and I don't really want to spend that much money, but if 760 is some outdated piece of tech which won't allow me to enjoy newest games in high/highest details I might wait.
 
Learn from my mistakes, children. Too much thermal paste is a bad thing.



I knew when I applied it that I put too much on, but I still put the heat sink on. The next day I thought better about it (I hadn't powered it on) and I removed the heat sink and it was all over the place. Some paste had even worked its way down the side of the CPU and was creeping in toward the pins. I was really worried I was going to have a short...

Learn from mine as well when it comes to processor installation into intel sockets.
When your installing the cpu into the socket please make sure to insert the cpu into the socket straight vertically and if you dont have it oriented correctly lift it out straight vertically as well. Dont slide the cpu around in the socket if it doesnt fit!
Also check one last time that the cpu is oriented correctly in the socket before closing the retention bracket!
These steps will avoid bending the contact pins in the socket.
I had purchased an i5-4690k and asus sabretooth mark 2 mb from microcenter this week and was installing them the same day when I unknowingly bent a bunch in pins in the socket. It never would post and got no video on the projector either, Then I removed the cpu and noticed the bent socket pins. Luckily microcenter gave me a refund on the sabretooth mark 2, and I replaced it with an asus z97-a mb. Got home, installed the mb and cpu properly this time and it runs great.
 

BladeSinner

Neo Member
I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone that helped me along the way with building my latest rig. I completed the build a few months ago, but never got around to posting pics, so here we go!

Specs:

Case: EVGA Hadron Air
Case Fans: 2 of Noctua 120mm, Anti-Stall Knobs Design,SSO2 Bearing PWM Case Cooling Fan NF-S12A PWM
Motherboard: Asus Maximus VI Impact
CPU: Intel Xeon X3-1230v3
CPU Cooler/Heatsink: Noctua NH-U9B SE2 CPU Heat Sink With Dual Noctua Fans - Socket 775/1156/1366/AM2/AM2+/AM3*
Ram: Corsair Vengeance LP Blue 16 GB (2x8 GB) DDR3 1600MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX780 SuperClocked w/EVGA ACX Cooler 3GB GDDR5 384bit
SSD: Samsung Electronics 840 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5-Inch SATA III
HDD: WD Blue 1 TB Desktop Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64 MB Cache - WD10EZEX

Pics:









 
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