from the picture the op painted bringing in the parents or the school wouldn't be all that conducive to a healthy resolution to what's going on.
I need advice on how to handle my little sister's situation
- Thread starter Mariolee
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from the picture the op painted bringing in the parents or the school wouldn't be all that conducive to a healthy resolution to what's going on.
Geno Breaker
Banned
AFAIK a lot of Asian societies are catholic.. I might be wrong so apologies if I don't know what I'm talking about.
well no one on gaf is going to give OP advice on how to prepare for and execute the isolation and assault of his target in thread. I guess I shouldn't be expecting his parents to be first and foremost concerned with the well being of their child.
ftw
sometimes.talk to your sister, bro. obviously the family ain't there like they should be, but you can be.
edit: for one she needs to never be alone with this guy and learn the word no and stop doing things she doesn't want to do.
She seems to have zero control or agency in this relationship.
Being constantly pressured into sexual acts, to the point of a possible pregnancy, seems outrageous.
Anything you do from this point seems like "too-little, too-late" because from what you've wrote, I doubt she'd even snitch on him to the cops.
Being constantly pressured into sexual acts, to the point of a possible pregnancy, seems outrageous.
Anything you do from this point seems like "too-little, too-late" because from what you've wrote, I doubt she'd even snitch on him to the cops.
FartNuggets
Neo Member
This. Her perspective on this is very important. She's young and could be confused as to what consent really means. Before you do ANYTHING you need to have another conversation with her about what she meant by "pressured". Rape doesn't just mean physical force.
My opinion--he coerced her into sex, which is still rape. But you know her better than anybody else here. If there's any chance she herself wanted to have sex and is just afraid to admit it, you need to find out. Especially before you run out looking for blood.
that doesn't change the age on consent
It depends on the state and/or jurisdiction but Romeo and Juliet laws may apply, nullifying statutory rape.
But OP has the best plan. "Confront" him by getting his side of the story and proceed from there.
Yes, Vietnamese for example.
FartNuggets
Neo Member
I just want to point out, whether she actually wanted it or not, she doesn't appear to have any control over this situation with him and there's an element to this "relationship" that is clearly making her uncomfortable. So pregnant or not, consent "implied" or not, she needs to stay away from him. Don't fuck him up, but keep her away and get the police involved if you have to.
Admiral Woofington
Member
wait for the results OP.
If she is pregnant= keep him the fuck away from her. If abortion is an option where you're at and she is comfortable with it do it. If she wants to keep the baby, support her. But this is clearly a piece of shit human being from what you've told us, do you really want this person in your sister's life and your family? He seems like he's one fight away from physically abusing her.
If she isn't pregnant= you see legal options about a restraining order, or if not go warn him to keep the fuck away or that it's going to get physical.
If she is pregnant= keep him the fuck away from her. If abortion is an option where you're at and she is comfortable with it do it. If she wants to keep the baby, support her. But this is clearly a piece of shit human being from what you've told us, do you really want this person in your sister's life and your family? He seems like he's one fight away from physically abusing her.
If she isn't pregnant= you see legal options about a restraining order, or if not go warn him to keep the fuck away or that it's going to get physical.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
why would she tell you the truth, exactly?
she probably likes this guy and doesnt want to get in trouble for the relationship, let alone the sex. how would he even know your dad was leaving... he just sat at your house and waits for it to be empty by chance?
he would have to find out where she lives, and somehow know your dad was potentially going to leave for a long time, and no one else was going to be there?
she probably likes this guy and doesnt want to get in trouble for the relationship, let alone the sex. how would he even know your dad was leaving... he just sat at your house and waits for it to be empty by chance?
he would have to find out where she lives, and somehow know your dad was potentially going to leave for a long time, and no one else was going to be there?
Agent_ShortBus
Member
I'm going to completely honest OP and people are gonna get mad. I'd be infuriated and would find this guy and beat the living shit out of him. If he was bigger than me I'd bring a damn bat. I'm shocked you've been keeping your cool. I guess it comes down to your sister and if she actually wants to report it to the police as rape.
What is the point of asking this guy for his side of the story? It's obvious what he's going to say, isn't it? Why let him think you care about his side of the story, at all? And why give him the opportunity to argue your sister really wanted everything? There's something hugely gross about that.
If you talk to him, the only thing you should be saying is: "Stay away from my sister." It's clear and it shows you completely have her back. Asking him what happened makes it sound like you don't trust her and need to hear it from him.
If you talk to him, the only thing you should be saying is: "Stay away from my sister." It's clear and it shows you completely have her back. Asking him what happened makes it sound like you don't trust her and need to hear it from him.
starchild excalibur
Member
Because it's easy to view girls as not having any sexual agency, especially when they belong to a family/school/religion that may frown at her being sexual at such a young age. It's absolutely possible that this guy forced himself on her sister. But if the sister is defending him and trying to mitigate the situation, it's important to determine if that's stemming from her fear of him or something else.
If anyone needs a further explanation, here you go
This is a case where I'd approve of a family using this against a guy (I don't agree with it being used when the teens are consenting but the family disapproves). Because it is rape but he could weasel his way out of it by arguing she consented (But it shouldn't be considered consent when he heavily pressures her and has to pressure her to say yes). But statuatory rape, much harder for him to argue around.
I'm not gonna condone it...but I understand.
I have 5 younger sisters, I'd probably be in prison already if I were in your shoes.
I don't feel like this demonstrates any value, in asking for his side. You're not going to learn about her feelings, by talking to this guy and he's obviously not going to admit to pressuring her or forcing her.
Agent_ShortBus
Member
If you don't want to touch him I'd at least fuck up his car. You know smashed windows and flat tires maybe throw in some nice dents if you have time and a little spray paint if you're not afraid with the words "rapist".
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
Don't involve the cops.
Please. Not yet.
I firmly and soundly endorse everything backslashbunny and Keri are saying. However, and I speak from experience here as a former federal prosecutor, once you involve the authorities, you're going to expose your sister to the wheels of the criminal justice system. Moreover, as you probably know, what she wants won't matter, because she's simply a witness, and the State is the aggrieved party.
I was once forced to prosecute an 18-year-old who slept with a 15-year-old in a purely consensual relationship. She didn't want it to happen. But her choices didn't matter. If you're talking about empowering young women and teaching them agency, all you need to tank those lessons is a vindictive (or in my case, Mormon) DA who coerces their cooperation.
Anyway.
I don't mean to be especially skeptical, but I feel like there's a very high probability of two things. First, it's possible no legal crime was committed (it depends on your jurisdiction as well as the facts of the encounter). Second, she's likely not telling you the entire story.
I think the best piece of advice is to wholly support her. But she needs to talk to a trained, empathetic adult outside of your family.
Edit: Also, you're going to med school? If you have any kind of character and fitness requirements for licensing, keep in mind that a doctor's salary can help your little sister out a fuckton more than the cathartic release of smashing this dude's car.
Please. Not yet.
I firmly and soundly endorse everything backslashbunny and Keri are saying. However, and I speak from experience here as a former federal prosecutor, once you involve the authorities, you're going to expose your sister to the wheels of the criminal justice system. Moreover, as you probably know, what she wants won't matter, because she's simply a witness, and the State is the aggrieved party.
I was once forced to prosecute an 18-year-old who slept with a 15-year-old in a purely consensual relationship. She didn't want it to happen. But her choices didn't matter. If you're talking about empowering young women and teaching them agency, all you need to tank those lessons is a vindictive (or in my case, Mormon) DA who coerces their cooperation.
Anyway.
I don't mean to be especially skeptical, but I feel like there's a very high probability of two things. First, it's possible no legal crime was committed (it depends on your jurisdiction as well as the facts of the encounter). Second, she's likely not telling you the entire story.
I think the best piece of advice is to wholly support her. But she needs to talk to a trained, empathetic adult outside of your family.
Edit: Also, you're going to med school? If you have any kind of character and fitness requirements for licensing, keep in mind that a doctor's salary can help your little sister out a fuckton more than the cathartic release of smashing this dude's car.
starchild excalibur
Member
It's not about getting him to admit to anything, but getting him to provide more context to the relationship - even if it's just his perception of the situation. If he brings up additional times where he and the OP's sister hung out/had a good time/etc, then that's new information that the OP can then bring up to the sister for corroboration.
I have no doubt that the guy - whether he forced her or not - will not admit to forcing sex upon her. It's more about determining whether their relationship goes beyond those acts of sex and - if so - whether that contextualizes their behavior in a new light.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
He doesn't need to interrogate his sister. What the guy's context is simply doesn't matter. The proper role of the older brother is to support her, believe her, and furnish her access to resources (e.g., Planned Parenthood and counseling) she couldn't otherwise obtain on her own.
You know what'd tank a strong brother-sister relationship? Playing detective when she's at her most vulnerable and/or confused.
Sunster
Member
this x1,000,000,000,000,000,000
Yes, I need to get my ass kicked for having enough life experience to know that the sister is just as guilty as the guy for letting the situation get to where it is? I must have missed the part where OP stated that his sister told the guy "no" and he forced himself onto her?
Gimme a break.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Hoho for breakfast
Member
The issue I'm seeing here is that he's a senior and she's a freshman. To me it does not sound like she is being raped unless it is statutory rape because of the age difference. What are the laws where you are?
How is all this even being brought up? Is it her, or is it you grilling her for answers? That's important imo as she may just be telling you what she thinks she should tell you after you question her about it. It sounds like possibly she feels guilty and so she tells you one thing but in reality is ok with this guy. On the other hand if she is the one bringing this up as a concern...then you should absolutely be concerned.
Also what's up with the white and asian descriptive terms? My daughter is white and is with a black guy but I don't feel the need to point this out except right here. Why is that the case for you?
How is all this even being brought up? Is it her, or is it you grilling her for answers? That's important imo as she may just be telling you what she thinks she should tell you after you question her about it. It sounds like possibly she feels guilty and so she tells you one thing but in reality is ok with this guy. On the other hand if she is the one bringing this up as a concern...then you should absolutely be concerned.
Also what's up with the white and asian descriptive terms? My daughter is white and is with a black guy but I don't feel the need to point this out except right here. Why is that the case for you?
In addition to everything Advocatus said, asking for more details from the guy will almost certainly end badly and destroy the trust the OP's sister has in him. The guy will definitely tell the sister her brother talked to him, and when he does it will sound like: "Your brother doesn't believe you, so he came to ask me what really happened. You should stop telling stories, because no one is buying it."
It makes it sound like the men had to get together, to hash out what really happened, because obviously the sister can't be trusted.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Sunster
Member
because it's a stupid ass law.
I went to school with and had a girl in my circle of friends who had a party at her house when she was 14. She took some hotshot 17 yr old dbag upstairs with her, had sex with him, got chlamydia and when it came time to take her ass to the doctor she had to explain what happened to her parents.
What happened? According to her? She was raped. The guy did time. It also didn't help that her father was a veteran on the police force in my town. She later admitted to my ex-gf and another friend of theirs that she lied about the whole thing because she was afraid of what her parents would think/do if they knew she willingly fucked this guy.
So yeah, in a lot of cases there's always more to the story and it's worth getting and pressing for the details before jumping to any conclusions.
No doubt the guy has issues. But why is she getting into the car with the guy? Why is she letting him in the house?
I wouldn't be so quick to throw around "rape". Theres more to this than it lets on.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
I personally believe in obtaining affirmative consent. I'd rather that be the prevailing rule throughout all jurisdictions.
However, one can feel pressured and then later consent. Consent isn't always effusive. Sometimes it's mere acquiescence. Consent is, by and large, an incredibly complex notion, at least legally speaking.
Based solely on the facts presented (which are told to us thirdhand, by the way), I simply don't see a clear-cut case of lack of consent.
That said, as backslashbunny mentioned, healthy sex DOES involve vocal, happy consent. OP's sister is (or was) not in a healthy sexual relationship, and it's important to realize that's absolutely worth addressing.
OP may not be the right person to do it, though. I feel like the sister would greatly benefit from talking to another woman.
starchild excalibur
Member
I agree with all of this. OP doesn't have to interview the guy - he's not a cop or a detective, after all. But my initial post was in response to Keri, as to why OP may want to do so, and that there might be some information to be gleaned by doing so. But again you're right - the sister is probably not looking for that out of the OP. Supporting her and empathizing with her is more than enough in a situation like this.
There are two paths the OP can go down:
One where he focuses on being the supportive brother during her sister's trying time or one where he focuses on getting the most information surrounding this situation. As I said above, the former is more than enough. OP isn't a detective and I absolutely agree with you that him going down that route could make him seem untrusting of his sister. I think many guys tend to look at situations like these in terms of how they can solve them, instead of in terms of how they can be most supportive.
BUT, if the law does get involved or this does go beyond the OP quietly listening to and supporting the sister, then a basic aspect of that investigative involvement will be getting the other person's side. Doing so isn't an acknowledgment of any party not believing the sister, but a basic tenet of getting all the possible narratives together to paint the most accurate picture of what happened. In response to the bolded point, even Advocatus said in his initial post that what the sister is saying may not be the whole truth.
Again - this is probably not the OP's best play, as his sister would be best served by him listening to - and supporting her.
Sunster
Member
I'd say that's the senior-freshman power dynamic. it's a palpable force in American high schools. maybe she doesn't want to but "he's a senior, paying attention to me, a 9th grader" maybe she feels like she needs to. The guy probably knows he could make freshman girls do things that his classmates won't. so he selected the most vulnerable one. maybe that's just speculation but it's something that I saw happen in my school. guy is likely to be a predator of sorts.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
I want to stress that false accusations, while they do happen, are exceedingly, unbelievably, and astonishingly rare. Just like no one gets abortions for fun, no one -- or very, very few people -- throws out rape accusations on a lark, either.
At least right now, this is better characterized as a non-healthy sexual relationship among two immature individuals facing severe external pressures to conform to arguably repressive, illiberal societal norms.
I'm not saying she's being deceptive. It's also wholly possible that she doesn't even understand entirely what's going on. She's 15, this is probably her first sexual encounter, and there's pregnancy possibly involved. Her mind is rightly a chaotic mess right now, and she needs help untangling it.
The paragraph you quoted about them in the car doesn't even make sense. At the very least, it's missing a lot of information.
Ok. Is the OP in California?
Nothing he said implies that the guy forced himself onto her. Being coerced/seduced by somebody does not constitute rape. If he threatened her in any kind of way or put his hands on her that's a completely different story.
"But babe! I bought all of these condoms! Come on, lets do it!" is basically what OP said this guy said. Sounds like she did a "oh, ok.." instead of a "no".
starchild excalibur
Member
That's fair enough. My larger point is that there may be more information than what the sister has disclosed (for whatever reason). It doesn't mean she's not a victim here. It just means that the OP may have an incomplete picture.
But I agree with you and Keri that it would be best for the OP to just support her right now instead of trying to "solve" anything.
Wouldn't hurt to look into getting her a BC scrip if possible. I know that would be difficult to hide from your parents but as we all know abstinence only sex ed is garbage.
I feel for ya man. The conservative environment adds a layer of complexity I unfortunately know too well. Best of luck.
I feel for ya man. The conservative environment adds a layer of complexity I unfortunately know too well. Best of luck.
A, if she did not feel like she could say no, that is rape.
B, even if it wasn't, this is statutory rape.
OP, you have to make the best decision for your sister, but this guy will most likely continue to be a predator if he isn't stopped.
Holy shit dude. BEING COERCED BY SOMEONE IS MOST CERTAINLY RAPE. Coercion is also not equivalent to being seduced.
Let's pull out that trusty dictionary definition here:
co·er·cion
kōˈərZHən,kōˈərSHən/
noun
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.
Feeling like you have to say yes because you're worried about the results of saying no on your well being is not you saying yes. Good God man.
Also I really dig this perspective. Thank you.
Yeah, I really hate to say it (and I hate that it's almost certainly true), but going to the police will likely be more trouble than it's worth, OP.
When it comes to rape, unless the narrative is that she fought him off vigorously, while shouting "no" and sustained numerous visible injuries in the process, it's unlikely the matter will be prosecuted and even more unlikely there will be a conviction.
Statutory rape is a much clearer charge, but even then - Word will get out that your sister had sex with this guy and, for some, the narrative will be that your sister willingly had a sexual relationship with him and then ruined the poor kids life.
Going to the police is something that the two of you need to think carefully about and something that, absolutely under no circumstances, should you pursue without her consent, because if you involve the police she will be the one dealing with all of the extraordinary burden that entails.
When it comes to rape, unless the narrative is that she fought him off vigorously, while shouting "no" and sustained numerous visible injuries in the process, it's unlikely the matter will be prosecuted and even more unlikely there will be a conviction.
Statutory rape is a much clearer charge, but even then - Word will get out that your sister had sex with this guy and, for some, the narrative will be that your sister willingly had a sexual relationship with him and then ruined the poor kids life.
Going to the police is something that the two of you need to think carefully about and something that, absolutely under no circumstances, should you pursue without her consent, because if you involve the police she will be the one dealing with all of the extraordinary burden that entails.
Alright. California does have a Romeo and Juliet exemption for 3 years but it's a reduction of penalty and not a complete exemption. The act would still be illegal but reduced to a misdemeanor.