shadyspace
Banned
If IGN is trolling us with these specs I will literally evolve into SSJ4 Rage Guy.
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IGN Posts Up More Project Cafe Hardware Power Rumors
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
shadyspace
Banned
ReyVGM said:
They didn't release GCN specs and it was more powerful than the PS2 and a better performer than the Xbox in some areas.
TekkenMaster
Banned
jj984jj said:
Retro's advantage comes from their physical proximity to and possible friendships with employees from other Western developers who have been working on HD games since 2005. Retro has simply had an easier time of keeping up with HD tech compared to EAD because of this.
Another advantage is that they have likely recruited many engineers from other western devs to work on their Cafe projects, whereas Nintendo probably hasn't recruited anyone from the MGS4 team or Polyphony.
ReyVGM
Member
shadyspace said:
They did release GC specs. Maybe not right away, but they did.
Problem was they detailed how many polygons you could use with all effects on, which was like 16 million or something, yet Sony and Microsoft bragged about their consoles pushing 100 million or something. That's with all effects off, but for the untrained eye, it looks like the GC was a piece of crap.
I seem to remember there was even a chart comparing the specs of all 3 consoles.
TekkenMaster said:
But you gotta think... Kojima's team jumped right from a ps2 base and then made MGS4. There is no reason why EAD can't jump from wii and do the same thing. IMO, nintendo's best looking games from last gen (and especially on wii) are right in line with Kojima's last gen games or better. Why would they be less tech savvy? Why would they be content to deliver results that don't match or surpass their competitors?
EAD will impress... But i agree with you that retro may impress even more, although maybe not.
IchigoSharingan
Member
Chuck Norris said:
moving the goal post?
Double gigaflops =/ generational difference.
Chuck Norris
Banned
I'm not moving the goal posts, I'm clarifying the point that such a difference does not amount to much, and bottlenecks don't change that.IchigoSharingan said:
PuppetSlave
Member
Mr_Brit said:
It really isn't that simple I am afraid.
Unregistered007
Banned
I doubt this thing will be more than 249 or 299.
SneakyStephan
Banned
I hope so, the hardware certainly doesn't appear to justify a higher price tag.Unregistered007 said:
If they price it right they can have their cake and eat it (blow ps360 out of the water in IQ, settings and framerates for ports, and put them to shame with 1st party titles, and have a low enough price to sell a gazillion of them before ps4 launches while still making a bit of a profit).
Those charts online were always dick-measuring exercises of futility.ReyVGM said:
Thing is that in real-world performance XBox1 handily outclassed both other consoles in pretty much everything, but multiplatform games could never showcase that, making the point fundamentally moot.
slidewinder
Banned
It's mostly due to the fact that a 4870 has twice the memory bus width but 75% the memory clock speed compared to a 5770.Mr_Brit said:
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
AceBandage said:
As an example to the point i was making: If the system only comes with 1GB RAM and the competition is coming with 4GB then games will be made to take advantage of 4GB, especially over the next 5-8 years.DoomXploder7 said:
While these rumored specs seem OK right now, i dont think they will prove to be very future proof as developers begin to take advantage of the more powerful other hardware.
Im not denying that there is diminishing returns with the results you get from the hardware, but games wont be directly portable from the more powerful systems. The gap wont be as large as this gen, but it will be significantly larger than the Gamecube/Xbox generation.
interesting article but its quite deceptively wrong....cant really compare how PC's work to Consoles because they are setup so differently. Also the fact when it comes to Resolution, PC games run in Native res while the majority of consoles games have on 360/PS3 have been upscaled to to meet the requirements of "HD".
if Wii2 games are all Native 1080p I'd be hugely impressed but I dont see that happening.
if Wii2 games are all Native 1080p I'd be hugely impressed but I dont see that happening.
The Black Brad Pitt said:
Agreed, I hope it's not another Dreamcast situation, speaking purely in terms of hardware power. I mean, for now, I'll just be psyched about Super Mario HD but I do want a Nintendo system that's in line with the current standard. I want something that will be impressive for the next several years.
I really wish people would stop saying this, sub HD console games are in fact in the minority, the vast majority of console games run at 720p.DSN2K said:
A 4850 won't be in line with the current standard never mind a few years from now. It won't look as bad as the Wii but it won't look like it's part of the same generation as PC games or next gen console games.Snuggler said:
SneakyStephan
Banned
Wasn't the dreamcast highly impressive hardware wise when it was released though.Snuggler said:
This thing is already 3 years outdated a year before release. (but hey I'll take anything I can get at this point)
Who plays games in 720p anymore on pc these days?Mr_Brit said:
They still run at a much lower res than 1080p.
Usually with no AF and lame ass edge AA or MLAA or even TAA.
The person you quoted had a point, much of that extra power would have to go to just putting the IQ at pc standards, not improve the poly count or draw distance or whatever.
60fps 1080p 2xmsaa maxed out pc graphics for bad company 2 is not possible on a 4850 btw, more like 20-40 min-max.
And bc2 isn't even that an impressive looking game on pc (seriously, turn the bloom off sometime in the config, what's revealed underneath is not pretty).
TekkenMaster
Banned
Krowley said:
I actually harbor a lot of hope that EAD will impress just as much as Retro (assuming Retro does a Metroid or other "realistic" looking game.
I'm just thinking that if I were to place a bet on whose 1st gen Cafe games will look best, I'd bet on Retro.
I'd bet on Capcom, they're the only ones along with Kojima who are putting out any good looking 3DS games, everything else doesn't look any better than PSP games. Nintendo's games look embarrasing next to RE and MGS. The gap between Wii and Wii 2 is even bigger than the 3DS and if Nintendo are struggling this much with the 3DS it doesn't fill me with confidence when it comes to their ability to work with Wii 2.TekkenMaster said:
Current consoles were designed to run at 720p, the 360 didn't even support 1080p when it launched. Also, how can someone have a point when what they're saying is a lie?SneakyStephan said:
herzogzwei1989
Banned
antonz said:
The Radeon 4850 card is still the RV770 GPU. Good news if Cafe uses it!
4850/RV770 provides like 1.0 TeraFlops (1000 GFLOPs) of shader/compute performance.
An enourmous leap beyond Wii's Hollywood GPU which provides
12.9 GFLOPs of T&L performance (Flipper did 8.6 GFLOPs)
The Xbox 360's Xenos GPU provides 240 GFLOPs of shader/compute performance.
So Cafe would therefore be like 4 Xbox 360's duck taped together
or around 77 Wii duck taped together.
Cafe would be a console-generation and a half beyond Wii.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Can you elaborate please?antonz said:
How does it stack up next to a 4870? 5870?
IchigoSharingan
Member
Chuck Norris said:
The PS3 is supposed to be much stronger than the 360 but the design of the PS3 prevents it from being the case. Devs have to put more and more into the SPUs to do work the GPU should be doing. The Cell's power is limited due to the RAM.
As such, the divided RAM doesn't help. It is an amazing balancing act to get more out of the PS3, when they shouldn't have to be doing this, but the bottlenecks are real and affecting output. It's great the system has access to VRAM but the fact it is chopped up doesn't make any sense. Ask any dev, they will say the RAM and VRAM are the biggest bottlenecks. RAM and VRAM largely affect textures, FPS, resolution, AA, and PPE. Other Gaffers have already brought up how the 360 has been able to dodge a major difference with EDRAM to provide AA without affecting performance too much. It's a smart way to shoulder bottlenecks. Sony are hardware wizards, but this was a major fuck up in design.
I'm not going to go in depth about the Blu Ray drive being an additional bottleneck, because everyone is already well aware of that.
I find it amazing that anyone in this day and age will argue that the PS3's bottlenecks don't affect its potential output. The Cell will have untapped power because of the design of the PS3 system. I mean, there's a reason sports titles are aimed for 60fps on 360 but 30fps on PS3, and it isn't coding incompetence.
If Nintendo keeps RAM up there, it should totally do awesome.
A hd 4850 chip at 40nm would be pretty cheap , most likely $20 ish for it fully fabed.
you can get 4 gigs of slower ddr 3 ram for $40 now and a chip the size of waternoose (xbox 360 cpu) is really cheap at 40nm .
I would think the whole system wouldn't cost them more than $200 bucks to produce and it could most likely come in at $100
1gig of ram is to little however , they should really bite the bullet and include 2 gigs of ram
you can get 4 gigs of slower ddr 3 ram for $40 now and a chip the size of waternoose (xbox 360 cpu) is really cheap at 40nm .
I would think the whole system wouldn't cost them more than $200 bucks to produce and it could most likely come in at $100
1gig of ram is to little however , they should really bite the bullet and include 2 gigs of ram
A 4850 is for the most part a 4870 card thats stuck using lower quality ram. DDR3 instead of DDR5. Its very likely Nintendo would be using DDR5 in their System and GPU so Cafe would be running on something at least 4870 in power range.The Black Brad Pitt said:
What I meant by the fact there are 6XXX series cards worse is the Generation marker doesn't always mean alot. It takes a 6790 minimum in the 6XXX series to outperform a 4870.
People get hung up on well my PC has a 6XXX series card so Cafe using a 4XXX must mean it sucks.
Frankly some of the low end 6XXX series cards are worse than 3XXX series cards.
Nintendo will not be using DDR3 in their system that much you can take to the bank. Nintendo never screws around when it comes to memory speed. They will use DDR5. The question will be will they be smart enough to do 2GB.eastmen said:
We have to hope they get enough feedback if they are using 1GB to change it. Early 3DS devkits were 64MB of ram. They ended up shipping retail with 128MB.
SneakyStephan
Banned
The Black Brad Pitt said:
From the best of my memory from reviews and benchmarks from over the years.
Scale where 4870 is 100 percent performance.
Rough numbers but not too far off.
4850 = 85 percent = gtx 260 more or less
5770 = 95-105 percent depending on game
5850 = 120-130 percent " = gtx 460 more or less
5870 = 130-160 percent "
6850 = a bit slower than 5850
6870 = a bit slower than 5870
6950 = 170-200 percent , which I guess is in the ballpark of a gtx480, a bit faster than it , it's also slightly faster than a gtx560 Ti
6970 = 200-240 percent
gtx 570 = 240-300 percent
Gtx 580 = ?? no idea really.
Fuck dual gpu cards.
So yeah, the 48xx cards are still pretty snappy, and the 68xx are a dissapointing semi rebrand with a misleading numbering.
6970 performance comes at the cost of a LOT of power consumption, heat and noise because they got stuck using 40nm again.
AMD tried to cop out by dropping performance optimisation through driver updates for the 4xxx series FAST and by exluding certain optimisations for 58xx users (and adding some later after some people on guru3d and whatnot proved that they were perfectly possible) to push their new line.
AMD pulled an Nvidia basically.
Shows how badly we need both players in the market, they aren't above being dickwads either.
I don't see why they'd have a disadvantage just due to being in Japan, that seems like grasping at straws to me.TekkenMaster said:
Now that's pure speculation. EAD could also be the one to get to hire more people with experience working on HD platforms, it doesn't have to be from the MGS4 team.TekkenMaster said:
There are many possibilities, but nothing conjecture and speculation gives Retro an advantage over EAD.
Wii 2 is using a 4850 which isn't just a 4870 using GDDR3, it also has a much lower core clock and much lower TDP so is quite a bit slower. Using GDDR5 will get it closer to a 4870 but it will still be quite a bit slower thanks to the vastly lower core clock.SneakyStephan said:
IchigoSharingan
Member
We don't know if it'll be clocked higher than a 4850 or lower.
IchigoSharingan said:
You hit some problems but not all of them.
The real problem is that the ps3 is a 2005 console , its blatently obvious that it was delayed for bluray to be put in.
The system has a split pool of ram , 256megs of gdr ram and 256 megs of xdram.
The system is using an off the shelf dx 9 gpu pre unified shader technology . basicly a gefroce 7600 level card .
Its also using the cell cpu which while might have a ton of power at certian tasks is a pain to develop for.
Sony got full of themselves and thought they would be able to dreamcast the xbox 360. Through out alot of hype and get gamers to wait . They screwed up because the system had poor titles and poor online along with it showing up a year late and $100-$300 more expensive than the xbox 360.
Yes alot of things about the ps3 original is great .
The wifi is great but as we see from ms they were able to make money off the adapter and now they were able to include it into the system.
The mandatory hardrive really saved sony but its a fixed cost that wasn't needed and we see by ms they were able to not only remove that cost from a sku of the system but then sell the hardrives for profit .
Bluray is great and offers some improvements but as we see if your the market leader like ms (for high def consoles ) the developers will fit the games on your system and they will still look better because thats the platform everyone is buying games on.
Sonys brand name is helping them alot in europe and in japan which is what kept them in this generation but the united sates is basicly over for Sony this gen , the xbox 360 is only growing its lead over the ps3 and with a wii hd hitting next holiday its over.
It doesn't matter what advances the ps3 had over the xbox 360 , in the end the 360 has the price advnatage /online advantage / and game advantage (for the na market ) the wii hd will now have the best graphics on the market most likely for a year. Sony is going to be stuck next year. The xbox 360 will still get alot of work done on it and will be the lead system for the next year but the wii hd will have the best graphics even if it comes just from the extra ram and advance filtering the hd 4850 class gpu is able to provide over the ancient geforce 7x00 series and the xenon
SneakyStephan
Banned
That's what I've been arguing too (the lower clocks for the console part).Mr_Brit said:
People suggested it might not be the case if they are using the 40nm process.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I'm reasonably sure the source of this rumor meant "4850 level power", not necessarily "using a modified 4850".
It definitely won't be higher clocked, that's just something Nintendo won't do, although I have no idea if it will be lower clocked. I think it will be slightly underclocked to keep TDP as low as possible and having high yields. Nintendo can't afford to have anything less than excellent yields on their GPU unlike the other two.SneakyStephan said:
SneakyStephan
Banned
ThoseDeafMutes said:
This would be great news , if it's a modern chip with similar power to a 4850.
Would mean a energy efficient , silent gpu that doesn't need to be underclocked to function in a console box.
Mr_Brit said:
the 4850 is a good chip
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2856/11
it will play batman aa at 1920x1200 maximum quality at 78fps . Thats a beast . The xbox 360 and ps3 are playing it at 720p or less and at low quality settings .
Also the hd 4850 is a dx 10.1 card and has a tesselation unit in it , so while it may not be as powerful as some other parts like the gtx 260 it does have more flexability and a better feature set.
I personaly think the radeon 5750 /70 would have been a better way to go , dx 11 ( i know nintendo can't use dx 11 but the card can still do those dx 11 effects using an nintendo api or open gl as the hardware is there) would have been the better card. I bet AMD let the 4850 tech go at a cheaper liscense fee than the hd 57x0 series.
Or perhaps the scaling of the 4850 power usage from 55nm to 40nm (amd's dx 11 line is built on this ) to 32/28 was more in line with what nintendo wanted ?
IchigoSharingan
Member
Nirolak said:
I hope they don't "3DS" the GPU. Man that chapped my ass.
Well honestly I just want a Nintendo system with some god damn brass balls again.