IGN: PS3 is much more powerful than Xenon
- Thread starter Izzy
- Start date
peedi said:
:lol
I'm about 3 months away from a degree in Marketing. I know how alluring the Playstation brand is.
I'm also aware of the history of this industry. I don't claim to know exactly what will happen, but I do know that Microsoft has a damn good product.
At least our "ilk" doesn't say stupid crap like "This is Microsoft's exit plan." and "Look at the Capcom and Square support. Surely those company will be the most important next generation." and finally "The Xbox 2 is like the Dreamcast."
Read this well. THE DREAMCAST WAS A FAILURE. In every way that a console can fail, the Dreamcast did. It did not sell the 25 million MS will sell this generation, despite having the backing of a company that had been in the industry for 20+ years.
No, I don't know what the Xbox 2 will sell, but I am extremely confident in my position. You want to talk about oblivous? Tell me again about how Nintendo is going to do next generation. Their console will sell 15 million MAX. Bank on it.
Amir0x said:
:lolI'm wondering when peedi is going to get banned.
Anyway, back on topic. It's not the power of a console that makes it a winner necessarily. Just look at the PS2. Games matter most, and hype is also a factor. I think people get duped by hype a lot these days. Hell, many people walk into a game store and buy games based on the box or adverts.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Here's an idea. Lets wait until E3 when we'll have some, uh..you know... real specs to look at. For all we know, IGN asked a couple of Sony's first party developers about the PS3 and Xbox2. Do the same over at MS and you'll get similar thoughts going the other direction.
Kung Fu Jedi said:
That's what I'm talkin about. Speculation without any data isn't worth shit.
Even then if the unit is more powerful on paper, who knows if it's going to be easily tapped. Just look at the PS2. Most of the potential of that device was never utilized for the most part. MGS 2 and 3 probably used a significant portion, but most games didn't most likely.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Ah, so it's not only in "playstation owner's" mind then.
I was getting worried there for a second that you think only the most mainstream group of gamers could have a grasp of a more timeless qualities of visuals.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Lets also not lose site of the fact that the Playstion "brand" was built in the previous generation. The PS1 built the brand that led to the success of the PS2. That brand was built against the N64, which had wonderful graphics but was hindered by still using carts, and the Sega Saturn which was a technical mess. When Sony hit the scene, the were certainly unproven, but they seemed to have some really cool, flashy games that were fresh and unique. They brought a new edge to gaming.
By this generation, the mainstream crowd had put their faith in the Playstation brand. The Xbox was an unknown, and many mainstream gamers had abandoned Nintendo. Both were later to market. IMHO, the Playstation brand will have some much stiffer competition next generation. I'm not about to say that they'll be toppled, but they're certainly going to be pushed. Sony needs to get back to the things that won them the PS1 generation. Cool games that tried new things, pushing the boundries in style and play, and making the PS3 seem edgy and cool again. At the moment, I'd say the Xbox is winning that mindshare war.
By this generation, the mainstream crowd had put their faith in the Playstation brand. The Xbox was an unknown, and many mainstream gamers had abandoned Nintendo. Both were later to market. IMHO, the Playstation brand will have some much stiffer competition next generation. I'm not about to say that they'll be toppled, but they're certainly going to be pushed. Sony needs to get back to the things that won them the PS1 generation. Cool games that tried new things, pushing the boundries in style and play, and making the PS3 seem edgy and cool again. At the moment, I'd say the Xbox is winning that mindshare war.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
It's going to be the same old story again.
XBOX 2 launches early. It sells well to early adopters.
PS3 hype builds. The majority waits for it. XBOX 2 momentum slows down as a result.
PS3 is released. It is the more powerful product and comes with the promise of a Playstation-like library of 3rd party hits + Gran Turismo. The incentive for the 100+ million Playstation gamers to change platforms is gone. It outsells XBOX 2 month-to-month thereafter (as long as supply is sufficient).
Microsoft will have to rely on a colossal error by Sony to prevent the above. Or, they can take matters into their own hands and once again lose billions to ensure that XBOX 2 is the most powerful.
The XBOX brand has been built upon technological superiority; they will suffer greatly without that advantage.
XBOX 2 launches early. It sells well to early adopters.
PS3 hype builds. The majority waits for it. XBOX 2 momentum slows down as a result.
PS3 is released. It is the more powerful product and comes with the promise of a Playstation-like library of 3rd party hits + Gran Turismo. The incentive for the 100+ million Playstation gamers to change platforms is gone. It outsells XBOX 2 month-to-month thereafter (as long as supply is sufficient).
Microsoft will have to rely on a colossal error by Sony to prevent the above. Or, they can take matters into their own hands and once again lose billions to ensure that XBOX 2 is the most powerful.
The XBOX brand has been built upon technological superiority; they will suffer greatly without that advantage.
The thing is, if Xenon gets enough developer support, it should end up with a decent "Playstation-like" library of its own before the PS3 even debuts. That could offset the PS3's technical advantage (much like the PS2 was able to handle the technically superior Xbox this gen) a bit.
I don't doubt for a second that PS3 will emerge the "victor" in terms of worldwide sales, if only because of how severely they crushed the competition this gen and last and that momentum will help carry them forward, but I'm not sure the Xenon can be so easily dismissed.
I don't doubt for a second that PS3 will emerge the "victor" in terms of worldwide sales, if only because of how severely they crushed the competition this gen and last and that momentum will help carry them forward, but I'm not sure the Xenon can be so easily dismissed.
Outdoor Miner
Member
mashoutposse said:
Impressive. With your ability to look into the future, could you give me some good advice on whose stock I should be investing in? And are Republicans still in control of this country where you're at in time?
That's all I need to know, thx.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Yes, it's very likely that XBOX 2 will receive enough good releases during that one year head start to make it a compelling purchase. EA will be on board right from the start this time. However, what are they going to do doing years 2-5 when PS3 is side-by-side with it? What reason will gamers have to pick XBOX 2 over PS3?
Don't be surprised if XBOX 2 marketshare remains flat, or even manages to decrease.
Don't be surprised if XBOX 2 marketshare remains flat, or even manages to decrease.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I think Jeremy Dunham is head of PS2 channel at IGN. Ivan is editor. They probably keep him there to "keep it real" so to say, and stir some controversy, like Matt is doing at IGNGC, but the guy is a bit nutty. I mean, his favorite PS2 game is Jak3...
Get back? I think they are doing just fine on the 'coolest thing on the block' front with every single console they release, PSP being the latest example.
Well, those who have their Xbox2 already would likely stick with that platform, for one, unless the PS3 is vastly more powerful (which I don't see happening, especially for multiplatform releases). The Xbox2 could also out-Sony Sony, so to speak, through better marketing to the teen and 18-24 demographics (remember, this is a large part of what gave Sony its popularity in the first place). An easier development environment on Xbox2 could also mean more exclusive games for that system, further driving up its value.mashoutposse said:
Of course, it's also possible that none of these things will happen and the scenario will go just as you described, and that's exactly the point, as Sal alluded to. I think at this point it's simply too early to call without making logical fallacies like looking to history (DC comparisons) or assuming that variables present in this gen will continue unchanged through next gen.
Even as an Xbox fan, I can admit that the Xbox 2 probably will not win next generation. Why is it so hard for Sony fans on this board to admit that the Xbox is a great console, and that Microsoft has put out something that Sony didn't? And furthermore, the Xenon is bound to deliver experiences not present on any other platform. If some wishful thinkers can get behind Nintendo, I know you can get behind Microsoft.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Sal Paradise Jr said:
Heard the same thing from DC fans.
"PS2 will receive massive support and sequels to AAA PS1 franchises." HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS
"PS2 will outsell DC because of that support." R U FORTUENTELLER
Et cetera...
soundwave05
Member
I think Microsoft is fucked to be honest.
Sony has a big advantange in terms of
Hardware Power
HD Format (Blu-Ray)
Out of the box Backwards Compatibility
Playstation Brandname
I mean, what happens when the version of Madden NFL 2007 on PS3 is better looking than the one on XBox 2? Don't think for a second Sony won't entice/prod EA to use that extra processing power either.
I dunno if PC devs will blindly just follow Microsoft either, Western devs do tend to favor more powerful hardware, fact is the PS3 actually might be able to handle more faithful PC ports because of the extra horsepower, even if it takes a little more elbow grease to work on the platform.
Sony has a big advantange in terms of
Hardware Power
HD Format (Blu-Ray)
Out of the box Backwards Compatibility
Playstation Brandname
I mean, what happens when the version of Madden NFL 2007 on PS3 is better looking than the one on XBox 2? Don't think for a second Sony won't entice/prod EA to use that extra processing power either.
I dunno if PC devs will blindly just follow Microsoft either, Western devs do tend to favor more powerful hardware, fact is the PS3 actually might be able to handle more faithful PC ports because of the extra horsepower, even if it takes a little more elbow grease to work on the platform.
Izzy said:
This is true. ATI is building developer support but it is nowhere near what Nvidia has done. Not sure how this will translate in the console arena though.
MS does have an uphill battle ahead. Sony is a consumer electronics company. Products like the PS2 and PSP show how they have a gauge on what consumer interest is. Not only from a gaming standpoint but also from a stylish look and extra non gaming features standpoint. Video games has always seemed like a natural extension to the Sony consumer electronics line.
soundwave05 said:
Yep, no shit. Alot of people in this thread are delusional based on Microsoft's new mentality that a headstart is what made PS2 massively outsell XBox, ergo they will fair better with a headstart.
In reality, lets see how (if) XBox2 survives E3: dare we forget that although the launch windows are asynchronous, Sony and Microsoft's PR campaigns are synced; 1999 is the year of precedence. By the end of E3, Sony will likely have made it clear that PS3 will be noticably more powerful, introduce the "Cell World" concept, support a true Next-Generation HD-media format in BD-ROM, intregration with Connect|Cell, PSP operations, eYeToy potential, et al, and have much more (and better recognizable) software support. For Sony, it's game-on, party like it's 1999.
And what happens, I know it's impossible to realize for some of you, but just if Sony plays the $99 PStwo card to coincide with X2 launch and it outsells X2 next fall? Is MS going to respond with an XBox drop? Haha, or drop X2's pricing?
Forsete
Member
When reading some of these positive-MS posts, I get the feeling that it is SONY who has to prove themselves, and that MS basically has the winners goblet in their hands.
Just a feeling I'm picking up.
About the main subject, not that shocked really. PS3 being the most powerful hardware next gen is pretty much set in stone as they are launching later (6 months?) than XB2.. Something would be terribly wrong if that wasn’t the chase.
Either way, if Sony keeps delivering the same high quality wide range games for PS3, it will be a winner no matter what.
Just a feeling I'm picking up.
About the main subject, not that shocked really. PS3 being the most powerful hardware next gen is pretty much set in stone as they are launching later (6 months?) than XB2.. Something would be terribly wrong if that wasn’t the chase.
Either way, if Sony keeps delivering the same high quality wide range games for PS3, it will be a winner no matter what.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Come on now... Hardly anyone normal here is denying that.
One could ask why is it so hard for you to accept that people prefer PS2 over other consoles, to the point that you never even gave it a chance / owned it.
In the end all that matters is the games not the technology. Sony did not outsell it's competitors because of any tech advantage but because it had Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto and Final Fantasy. If, lets say Microsoft bought Take 2, it would become a head to head race in North America overnight, regardless of Sony's tech advantage. The only thing Microsoft needs to do is vastly improve its relationships with devs (Japan especially) and the sales will follow. Get Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy exclusive (I know highly unlikely) and Japan would be theirs regardless of namebrand or a vast Sony tech advantage (I believe it will be PS2/Xbox reversed)
soundwave05
Member
android said:
Well we know Sony is going to have great developer support. We know they're likely to have FFXIII, DQVIII, etc.
So yes, the other factors do become more important.
I think the hardware advantage the XBox had over the PS2 allowed it to gain a decent sized fanbase.
But now, the PS3 is going to be the one in all likelyhood that gets the better versions of multiplatform titles, not to mention the overwhelming Japanese support. And I think PC devs will also back Sony because of the horsepower, userbase, and Nvidia's ties.
I don't see MS having a clear cut software advantage anywhere.
Halo 3 will be big, but Sony is already working on their own FPS', they probably won't be as big (just as Jak/Ratchet aren't as big as Super Mario 64), but they should negate that advantage some what as well. Get a great looking, good playing FPS franchise and Sony is basically set IMO.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Haven't a number of devs already gone on record as saying there will most likely be little graphical difference between the two machines? If that is the case, then it won't be about whose games look best.
Hopefully Next Gen will be about more then just graphical upgrades with better AI and physics in game. Smoother overall game play,great sound, and HD support of course.
If the games do look pretty much the same, what does that leave for the average consumer to consider when selecting a new system. Sony will still have that well known Playstation brand, while MS will have the Xbox brand they've worked hard to build, but isn't quite at the level of the PS. To me, if MS is going to compete, they have the best chance using Live. It's important to get an edge on Sony somewhere and that's where they'll have it, at least for now. PS3 will no doubt have Internet play, but Sony is a long way from creating something like Live.
Hopefully Next Gen will be about more then just graphical upgrades with better AI and physics in game. Smoother overall game play,great sound, and HD support of course.
If the games do look pretty much the same, what does that leave for the average consumer to consider when selecting a new system. Sony will still have that well known Playstation brand, while MS will have the Xbox brand they've worked hard to build, but isn't quite at the level of the PS. To me, if MS is going to compete, they have the best chance using Live. It's important to get an edge on Sony somewhere and that's where they'll have it, at least for now. PS3 will no doubt have Internet play, but Sony is a long way from creating something like Live.
soundwave05
Member
nitewulf said:
I would've said the same thing 6-8 months ago.
You give the PS3 a significant hardware advantage, format advantage, feature set advantage (backwards comp. right outta the box) ... I mean c'mon. That's on top of Sony already being the overwhelming market leader.
It's like playing the Jordan-era Chicago Bulls, spotting them a 20 point lead, giving them home court advantage, and giving them the benefit of every foul call.
android said:
Blatently not true, yet another of these fallicious comments born of the new Microsoft PR paradigm. The truth is that a platform such as PlayStation is understood from a holist perspective. It's not the individual components or the games or the hype or the PR, but the aggregation of these things which yeild an abstract quantity, an utility, that in PlayStation's regard is huge in the public's collective minds.
As for the 'only the games matter' believers, tell that to Sega and their console which was dead before it launched. Or if you wait a year or so, perhaps Microsoft too.
I don't think any developers have gone on the record for comparing power of next gen systems. 
Off the record there have been some rumors. Some say games will be similar and other developers state PS3 will be orders of magnitude more powerful. The truth is probably somewhere inbetween.
The only thing I know for sure is that I'm not waiting until Fall 2006 to buy a next gen console! This generation has stretched on for too damn long as it is!
Off the record there have been some rumors. Some say games will be similar and other developers state PS3 will be orders of magnitude more powerful. The truth is probably somewhere inbetween.
The only thing I know for sure is that I'm not waiting until Fall 2006 to buy a next gen console! This generation has stretched on for too damn long as it is!
You know guys, as a professional computer engineer I must say, theoretical numbers are complete BULLSHIT. What matters is real world benchmarks using standardized tests. Will PS3 be more powerful by leaps and bounds? Maybe. Do I think so? No, not likely. Will they be close to on par with each other? Most likely.
Arguing over it is silly, especially based on what the bozos over at IGN have to say.
Arguing over it is silly, especially based on what the bozos over at IGN have to say.
soundwave05
Member
nitewulf said:
I'm not putting it on any pedestal. It is significantly more powerful than the XBox 2. It does have the Blu-Ray format (which at $300 is a ridiculous value). It does have backwards compatibility right out of the box.
You can't just write these things off and pretend everyone's some how on even ground.
BTW, IGN is not pulling these figures out of thin air, its what they've been told by people who actually have working knowledge of both systems. And dev kits for both machines are out. It just echoes what developers have also already told EGM.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
soundwave05 said:
Where has it been demonstrated to be "significantly more powerful"? Just curious on that one, as at this point, we really don't have real specs to compare on either of them. Blu-Ray format is pretty much a given, and if it does indeed come in at $300, that will be a nice selling point right there.
Date of Lies
Banned
Speevy said:
For a guy that's "3 months away from a degree in Marketing" you're not bringing anything new to the table apart for the usual forum member's opinion. I wouldn't try to make myself look important over something like that because you don't need to have studied in marketing to give out a highly subjective peice of mind such as that. I highly doubt you would have been any better positionned to market any of those consoles.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
soundwave05 said:
Exactly. I just don't see where the XBOX 2 as we know it will make any sort of headway against a more capable PS3. I think a lot of the optimism comes from the (now misleading?) holiday sales results, which painted a very rosy picture for Microsoft going forward.