Support NeoGAF

[Lord Error]

Not if Xbox 3 is priced higher and Sony's software lineup is good enough.

I don't think Sony's in position to bank on that. Back when PS3 was launching, maybe, and only if they launched the same time as X360. Now definitely not.

Not that it really matters, because rumored Xbox3 specs don't seem like anything to write home about either.

 

[i-Lo]

Parallelized emulation is incredibly difficult, if not impossible. You need to have as many cores in the host system as there are discrete threads in the emulated system. If you have fewer, then one emulated thread has to sit and wait for the core it's running on to feed it results from another, related thread. If you have more cores, the extra core can't do anything until it gets results from the on-going thread, so it might as well just keep running on the same core.

Extra cores come in handy when you have to do things like emulate sound processors and vector units, but in the case of going from 6 SPUs to 400 shader units... that just doesn't work. I can't think of any way to make it work, even if devs went back to the source code they'd probably have to completely rewrite everything unless they used something like OpenCL.

I hope for our sake that you are right, I really do.

And where the heck are StevieP and BrainStew when you need them? Argh

 

[DieH@rd]

It's not the same. It ran at 720p and no AA, with settings closer to medium (with a much shorter draw distance and less vegetation). It was a pretty decent port overall but the hardware demands are nothing like the PC version with the settings I described.

And i asked for someone to directly compare radeon 6760 and gforce 7800 in PC Crysis. Not to compare two entirely different games [they carry the same name, but the engines are completely different].

 

[Durante]

I hope for our sake that you are right, I really do.

Well, first of all, he is right, and secondly, why would you hope "for our sake" that emulation is impossible? (Which would absolutely be the case with these specs -- but, well, software emulation of Cell would be impossible with any specs)

 

[Plinko]

After the complete bomba of the Vita launch and the way the PS3 was crushed last generation, you really thought Sony was going all out for a powerhouse console, GAF?

Really?

 

[i-Lo]

Well, first of all, he is right, and secondly, why would you hope "for our sake" that emulation is impossible? (Which would absolutely be the case with these specs -- but, well, software emulation of Cell would be impossible with any specs)

With regards to "for our sake" I only meant the weaksauce hardware. Now, pertaining to CELL emulation, I thought it was nearly impossible atm.

After the complete bomba of the Vita launch and the way the PS3 was crushed last generation, you really thought Sony was going all out for a powerhouse console, GAF?

Really?

Crushed? Really!?

And is the Vita dead? Are Sony stopping production? Oh wait

 

[Bagu]

That, and the fact it's running on a different engine. I'd love to see the CE3 Crysis running on PC.

Didn't the engine switch also allow them to stream the level as needed, rather than just load the whole thing like in the PC?

 

[Marco1]

After the complete bomba of the Vita launch and the way the PS3 was crushed last generation, you really thought Sony was going all out for a powerhouse console, GAF?

Really?

I agree also CELL emulation next-gen will definately not happen.
I can't see any BC on PS4 at all.

 

[KageMaru]

After the complete bomba of the Vita launch and the way the PS3 was crushed last generation, you really thought Sony was going all out for a powerhouse console, GAF?

Really?

Wait.....since when has the PS3 been crushed? Considering how slow it started, I think it's done great compared to the competition.

 

[Pinzer]

After the complete bomba of the Vita launch and the way the PS3 was crushed last generation, you really thought Sony was going all out for a powerhouse console, GAF?

Really?

PS3 has sold roughly the same as 360. It was not crushed.

Vita has not bombed, it came out less than 2 months ago. Give it a year at least for fuck's sake.

 

[KKRT00]

Didn't the engine switch also allow them to stream the level as needed, rather than just load the whole thing like in the PC?

Yep, whole streaming system was reworked for CE 3.

Well, first of all, he is right, and secondly, why would you hope "for our sake" that emulation is impossible? (Which would absolutely be the case with these specs -- but, well, software emulation of Cell would be impossible with any specs)

Graphen will save the day someday.

 

[Triple U]

PS3 has sold roughly the same as 360. It was not crushed.

Vita has not bombed, it came out less than 2 months ago. Give it a year at least for fuck's sake.

Yeah thats a weird statement to make. A year later at a higher BoE and its about equal to the 360. Considering Sony has been in "cut-their-losses" mode, they've done alright for themselves.

 

[papersleeves]

After the complete bomba of the Vita launch and the way the PS3 was crushed last generation, you really thought Sony was going all out for a powerhouse console, GAF?

Really?

We've never seen Sony taking any other route but cutting edge so why do you assume this should be obvious to anybody?

 

[Bear]

And i asked for someone to directly compare radeon 6760 and gforce 7800 in PC Crysis. Not to compare two entirely different games [they carry the same name, but the engines are completely different].

My bad, the wording made it sound like you assumed the PSN version was a direct PC port.

The 7800 will run it at low, maybe low-medium settings.

 

[Father_Brain]

I don't think Sony's in position to bank on that. Back when PS3 was launching, maybe, and only if they launched the same time as X360. Now definitely not.

Not that it really matters, because rumored Xbox3 specs don't seem like anything to write home about either.

Perhaps. But I at least don't see any reason to assume that a significant tech advantage for either Sony or MS would pay off outside System Warz discussions on message boards.

 

[Marco1]

My last memory of crysis was running it on a core i7920 and a GTX295 at 1920x1200 high settings about 3 years ago.
It would be a real shame if the consoles launching next year couldn't even do that.

 

[Elginer]

An A8? Damn that's disappointing.

 

[Chittagong]

So if I was to believe this rumour, buying a gaming PC now with an i5 + 7870 + 8GB RAM would get me to 4TFLOPS which should be able to handle any next gen content at 1080P, even given that the games aren't as optimized on PCs, right?

 

[RoboPlato]

I still highly doubt thay either system will ship with 2 GPUs. It seems like whenever we hear a rumor about one there's the same rumor for the other.

 

[Durante]

So if I was to believe this rumour, buying a gaming PC now with an i5 + 7870 + 8GB RAM would get me to 4TFLOPS which should be able to handle any next gen content at 1080P, even given that the games aren't as optimized on PCs, right?

How would you get 4 TFLOPS from that? That's less than 3. (Still enough though)

I still highly doubt thay either system will ship with 2 GPUs. It seems like whenever we hear a rumor about one there's the same rumor for the other.

Two GPUs seems unlikely to me as well, but APU + GPU makes sense, especially with split memory pools.

 

[elcranky]

PS3 has sold roughly the same as 360. It was not crushed.

Vita has not bombed, it came out less than 2 months ago. Give it a year at least for fuck's sake.

In the markets that matter, the PS3 has been absolutely destroyed.

 

[Durante]

In the markets that matter, the PS3 has been absolutely destroyed.

Only the US and the UK matter?

 

[EagleEyes]

Yeah thats a weird statement to make. A year later at a higher BoE and its about equal to the 360. Considering Sony has been in "cut-their-losses" mode, they've done alright for themselves.

My my how the perception of things have changed over the course of this gen.

 

[Plinko]

Guys, when I say Sony was "crushed" I'm talking profits-wise. Didn't they take an absolute beating for years after launch?

I could have swore I read articles about the Playstation division losing almost $5 billion within a few years after launching the system.

That's why I believe they go with a middle-of-the-road system this time.

 

[alphaNoid]

Wait.....since when has the PS3 been crushed? Considering how slow it started, I think it's done great compared to the competition.

I think 'crushed' in that the previous gen Sony sold something like 120 million PS2s to Nintendo and Microsofts ~25 million. They quite literally had a 100 million unit gap over both of the competition. 1 generation later, they are 3rd place. Lost is all of that brand loyalty, lost are all the exclusives, lost is first place, lost is second place, all thats left is close 3rd place sales and fans doing their best to remind people that Sony, 'isn't that far behind guys!' or 'Considering how slow it started, I think it's done great compared to the competition.'.

The mighty have fallen. When you directly look at sales this gen, sure.. not so distant third and a general decent sell rate of consoles. When you take into considering what the Playstation brand used to be .. it has been chopped at the legs and quite honestly ...

... "crushed" in a single generation.

 

[Plinko]

Crushed? Really!?

And is the Vita dead? Are Sony stopping production? Oh wait

I love my Vita but this launch has been a failure so far. It's barely selling over 10,000 a week in Japan. U.S. launch sales weren't too hot, either.

I'm not saying it's over by a long shot--3DS had a failed launch and turned it around as well.

But you can't possibly say the Vita is in good shape right now.

 

[Globox_82]

This rumor doesnt make much since. I would to see the logistics and datapaths for a machine like this.

Did any of the rumors so far make much sense?

 

[Plinko]

We've never seen Sony taking any other route but cutting edge so why do you assume this should be obvious to anybody?

Really? The PS2 was the least powerful of that generation.

 

[KageMaru]

I think 'crushed' in that the previous gen Sony sold something like 120 million PS2s to Nintendo and Microsofts ~25 million. They quite literally had a 100 million unit gap over both of the competition. 1 generation later, they are 3rd place. Lost is all of that brand loyalty, lost are all the exclusives, lost is first place, lost is second place, all thats left is close 3rd place sales and fans doing their best to remind people that Sony, 'isn't that far behind guys!'.

The mighty have fallen. When you directly look at sales this gen, sure.. not so distant third and a general decent sell rate of consoles. When you take into considering what the Playstation brand used to be .. it has been chopped at the legs and quite honestly ...

... "crushed" in a single generation.

Oh yeah I agree, which is why I specified compared to the competition ;p

It really is interesting how it all played out and only goes to show that it's anyone's game next gen.

Edit:

Really? The PS2 was the least powerful of that generation.

It was still impressive at the time of launch.

 

[RoboPlato]

I think 'crushed' in that the previous gen Sony sold something like 120 million PS2s to Nintendo and Microsofts ~25 million. They quite literally had a 100 million unit gap over both of the competition. 1 generation later, they are 3rd place. Lost is all of that brand loyalty, lost are all the exclusives, lost is first place, lost is second place, all thats left is close 3rd place sales and fans doing their best to remind people that Sony, 'isn't that far behind guys!'.

The mighty have fallen. When you directly look at sales this gen, sure.. not so distant third and a general decent sell rate of consoles. When you take into considering what the Playstation brand used to be .. it has been chopped at the legs and quite honestly ...

... "crushed" in a single generation.

I just hope that they get humbled like Nintendo did after the GameCube. I'm not expectig a comback like that but it seems like it always works out better for everyone when those that were on top get taken down a peg. They need to work to gain that brand power back and not just rest on loyalty.

 

[Triple U]

My my how the perception of things have changed over the course of this gen.

Hey the PS3 was a bust but they're actually in a decent spot for next-gen.

 

[somuchwater]

I'm not a tech person, but these two GPU rumours do match the relatively recent media-heavy focus of Sony and Microsoft. I'm not sure how likely it is, but a basic PS4/720 that lacked the discrete GPU would be a pretty killer media box, and another way for both Sony and MS to pursue their living room strategies.

Even if that's totally off base, however, it still makes sense to keep the media functionality of new consoles in mind. If you're at MS making decisions as to what hardware you want for the next gen -- and now, half of the time a 360 is turned on, it's to access media content -- you clearly have a different set of hardware considerations (in terms of the cost and the ROI of that cost) than graphics, computing power etc.

Edit: I mention MS b/c it's who we have recent usage stats for, but the same goes for Sony too.

 

[Globox_82]

Really? The PS2 was the least powerful of that generation.

well it was first one to be released(not counting dreamcast)

 

[kfpkiller]

Really? The PS2 was the least powerful of that generation.

It launched 18 months before the xbox and the GC.

 

[Triple U]

Really? The PS2 was the least powerful of that generation.

It was the best when it launched.

 

[EagleEyes]

Hey the PS3 was a bust but they're actually in a decent spot for next-gen.

Oh I agree. I think that everybody involved is in an equal opportunity situation next gen but that also means that Sony better have its shit together at the beginning because they wont have the brand to fall back on this time.

 

[androvsky]

I still highly doubt thay either system will ship with 2 GPUs. It seems like whenever we hear a rumor about one there's the same rumor for the other.

One console future incoming's first step. Didn't the sony -microsoft domains get registered around the time frame that would have to be decided if they're delivering dev-kits now?

And yes, I'm still joking, but I'm not laughing quite as hard at it as I used to. The rumors are starting to get weird...

 

[iceatcs]

I love my Vita but this launch has been a failure so far. It's barely selling over 10,000 a week in Japan. U.S. launch sales weren't too hot, either.

I'm not saying it's over by a long shot--3DS had a failed launch and turned it around as well.

But you can't possibly say the Vita is in good shape right now.

But it is not dead. That's what he asking.

 

[Plinko]

well it was first one to be released(not counting dreamcast)

It launched 18 months before the xbox and the GC.

It was the best when it launched.

I realize that, but when I saw the phrase "cutting-edge" I was viewing it as technology that held up throughout the generation. I get what you guys are saying, though.

In the end, it didn't matter a bit and the PS2 dominated everything.

 

[nordique]

It was still impressive at the time of launch.

That was a different time and a different Sony though.

Companies do not stay static (and if they do, they slowly die)

Gaming philosophies (and by extension hardware development philosophies) can change

Otherwise, Nintendo - for example - would have taken a different route with the Wii. Because of course, two generation prior, they were at the cutting edge of technology with their home consoles. Aside from the very poor decision to stick with cartridges (case in point of a company remaining static), the N64 wiped the floor with the PS1 from a hardware standpoint.


Sony today is less concerned with power. They understand they need a new system, and they simply cannot repackage the PS3. Orbis will be a step up graphics wise, it just won't be the leap people think it will be, especially if these rumours are true. And I understand that -- there has not really been any ground breaking graphics technology changes since the programmable shaders came into being.


I think lighting will be a big thing, and I expect all the worlds to be much more detailed and richer.

 

[Plinko]

But it is not dead. That's what he asking.

Please, scour my initial post and tell me where I said the Vita was "dead."

I'll wait.

 

[alphaNoid]

Oh yeah I agree, which is why I specified compared to the competition ;p

It really is interesting how it all played out and only goes to show that it's anyone's game next gen.

Ah ok. Well you are right though, continued gens are up for grabs. I will expand a bit though that in this day and age, 2012 and beyond .. consumers are expecting the highest level of seemless technology built into these consoles. Its not a transitionary generation anymore.. all of these features that were added this gen are to be expected next. They are expected to be better, run better, offer more and run alongside even more innovated software features.

Nintendo can probably get away with missing this mark because their loyal customers will buy just about anything they make. Lets be honest.. heh. But Sony competing directly against MS, a software giant .. they have quite the challenge ahead of them. Sony simply cannot put the best hardware in a box, price it right and launch with the best exclusives. They are going to have to make the next Playstation more than a game console and are going to have to really 'nail' PSN (SOE?) in the next gen.

MS is going to be unifying all platforms next gen. Windows 8, Windws Phone 8, Next Xbox.. they are all going to be software rich and interlinked with probably quite the powerful cloud services. I know I"m going out on a limb here, so please bare with me. But Sony has to in the least somehow match what MS is going to do or they have no right barking about competing side by side. If both consoles are powerful game machines but one has bountiful software features over the other ... thats going to be quite the edge in this day and age. I think a lot of consumers these days are expecting a lot more from their console than for it to simply 'play games'. Software features are going to make or break Sony or MS I think. Thats going to be the real separation.

Competition is healthy for consumers so I hope Sony hired some real software engineers to design services that can go head to head with MS. MS is definitely going to flex their muscle next gen in that department, Live is likely going to take on a new role that expands far beyond the Xbox. I hope Sony has the foresight to see this and is working hard to beat MS. Again, I think Nintendo already knows they cannot compete in that space .. so they will offer something unique and different, something they know will satisfy their audience.

But again like you said earlier.. its anyones game and gentlemen.. start your engines!

 

[Globox_82]

I realize that, but when I saw the phrase "cutting-edge" I was viewing it as technology that held up throughout the generation. I get what you guys are saying, though.

In the end, it didn't matter a bit and the PS2 dominated everything.

18 months is a lot of time bro. No matter how "cutting edge". It was "cutting edge" enough to give us in it's 5th year games like GOW2, SOTC, Okami,etc. That's cutting edge to me

 

[AgentP]

In the markets that matter, the PS3 has been absolutely destroyed.

Like Japan?

 

[Quicksilver4648]

Next week's rumor is going to be the Xbox 720 shipps with a 256GB SATA III SSD.

 

[StevieP]

I hope for our sake that you are right, I really do.

And where the heck are StevieP and BrainStew when you need them? Argh

Development hardware is in flux until about 6-8 months prior to launch.

I agree also CELL emulation next-gen will definately not happen.

No, obviously there will be no emulation of Cell.

 

[Escape Goat]

WiiU Hype Train

PS4 Hype Train

 

[Bear]

In the markets that matter, the PS3 has been absolutely destroyed.

What? The 360 outsold the PS3 in North America, but the PS3 outsold the 360 in every other major region (Europe, Japan and the remaining WW sales).

 

[Antagon]

WiiU Hype Train

PS4 Hype Train

Why? The rumored GPU is in the same ballpark as the GPU that the Wii U is based of, or even a little slower and the CPU is far from a speed demon as well. Those integrated graphics won't make that big a difference.

 

[elcranky]

Only the US and the UK matter?

For consoles, basically yes. roughly speaking, current importance of markets probably runs something like US 10, UK 4, EU 4, Rest of world 2. Notice I said importance, not sales.