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[FinalAres]

Nostalgia is a powerful thing and 7 is old enough for a newer generation to see it without being blinded by it. It's just not that great of a game, i.e. the materia system makes all the character really samey, the game loves shoving really bad minigames at you way too much, etc.

'Nostalgia is the only reason anyone ever liked FF7' is such a lazy argument, and is pretty much at the heart of the gaming-hipsters anti-ff7 sentiment.

After all, when the game came out and was consistently rated amongst the best games ever, there was no nostalgia then. Similarly OOT which has its own share of problems is still consistently rated highly even though apparently the newer generation should see it for what it is without being blinded by nostalgia.

The truth is SE screwed the Final Fantasy brand, and FF7 was the victim. If SE had been consistently producing games that people could love then it would be higher rated. As it is we essentially had a generation and a half where people were saying "Final Fantasy is shit" and they were right,

 

[ViolentP]

C'mon Phantasy Star II!

I know people consider IV to be the best and it's already on the list but luckily they're all wrong!

 

[thestopsign]

If I had to make a prediction of the top 10 it would be:

1. Chrono Trigger
2. The Witcher III
3. Baldur's Gate II
4. Final Fantasy VI
5. Dark Souls
6. Skyrim
7. Mass Effect II
8. Diablo II
9. World of Warcraft
10. Pokémon Red and Blue (though it should be a later entry)

The order may change around but if I were a betting man I think at least 7 of those are in their Top 10. I edited out Planescape: Torment, but that has a good shot too.

 

[kswiston]

'Nostalgia is the only reason anyone ever liked FF7' is such a lazy argument, and is pretty much at the heart of the gaming-hipsters anti-ff7 sentiment.

After all, when the game came out and was consistently rated amongst the best games ever, there was no nostalgia then. Similarly OOT which has its own share of problems is still consistently rated highly even though apparently the newer generation should see it for what it is without being blinded by nostalgia.

The truth is SE screwed the Final Fantasy brand, and FF7 was the victim. If SE had been consistently producing games that people could love then it would be higher rated. As it is we essentially had a generation and a half where people were saying "Final Fantasy is shit" and they were right,

Are you counting from last gen to now? The (main) Final Fantasy games on PS2 were both well regarded at the time, and now.

Final Fantasy VII hate is complex, because at least some of it is caught up in console fanboyism. Sony "stole" Final Fantasy away from Nintendo. Some people still haven't gotten over it.

At the time, there was also a significant number of people who didn't like the transition from good/great looking 2D titles to shitty looking early 3D titles. It didn't help that you had SCEA actively blocking 2D titles in the early days of the PS1. Final Fantasy VII became the poster child of everything that was "going wrong" in gaming.

Then you have the fact that it became the biggest non-Pokemon jrpg of all time, leading to a massive shift in development priority within JRPGs. If you didn't particularly like PS1-era Final Fantasy, you probably wouldn't be a fan of seeing other series head in that direction, with lengthy cutscenes, summoning/spell animations, and 3 character battles (where 4 was standard previously).

So while detractors are quick to pull the nostalgia card, they aren't being particularly honest if they don't admit that the anti-FF7 sentiment is also colored by the game's historical context.

 

[Kev Kev]

Yay Shining Force II made the list. Not in the top 50 is totally fair but it's still hurts my heart a little bit.

 

[kswiston]

Yay Shining Force II made the list. Not in the top 50 is totally fair but it's still hurts my heart a little bit.

I think it's just better to ignore ranks in these sorts of lists.

Also, the IGN list is better than the Gameinformer list so far.

 

[kromeo]

55 - Shadow Hearts: Covenant

46 - Grandia II

Whoever made this list hasn't actually played these two games, it's the only possible explanation

 

[brokenbeans]

Fucking hell this list is all over the place lol

 

[Falchion]

Oh wow, Stardew Valley making an appearance!

 

[PK Gaming]

I liked SMT4 but holy crap the characters are seriously terrible. You might as well control a party of cardboard cutouts.

The only thing i remembered about them was that the girl liked manga.

Yeah

SMT4 has this reputation of being dark, deep and meaningful (the Dark Souls of Persona, lol), but upon serious examination, its characters are extremely shallow.

 

[sir_bumble_bee]

I think it's just better to ignore ranks in these sorts of lists.

Also, the IGN list is better than the Gameinformer list so far.

Hold your tongue until the top 10 reveal

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yeah

SMT4 has this reputation of being dark, deep and meaningful (the Dark Souls of Persona, lol), but upon serious examination, its characters are extremely shallow.

And it's not that they are meant to be representations of law and chaos and that's why their characters are flat. Previous SMT games have done this much better.

Also some of the bosses are some of the artistically worst designed demons in the series.

 

[WillySJ3]

This list is a joke, so many wrong choices.

 

[QuantumZebra]

'Nostalgia is the only reason anyone ever liked FF7' is such a lazy argument, and is pretty much at the heart of the gaming-hipsters anti-ff7 sentiment.

After all, when the game came out and was consistently rated amongst the best games ever, there was no nostalgia then. Similarly OOT which has its own share of problems is still consistently rated highly even though apparently the newer generation should see it for what it is without being blinded by nostalgia.

The truth is SE screwed the Final Fantasy brand, and FF7 was the victim. If SE had been consistently producing games that people could love then it would be higher rated. As it is we essentially had a generation and a half where people were saying "Final Fantasy is shit" and they were right,

Yes! It is nauseating. Especially the hipsters. "FF6 is the best and FFVII isn't even top 5" .. like.. gtfo, opinions and all, but there is some level of objectivity in video game quality.

I played FF6 again recently and beat it along with doing all the side stuff... and no, it is not better than FFVII (which I also beat recently).

In fact FF6 isn't even top 3 for me (IX, X, VII). Kefka is literally the Joker from Batman, but he wins in the end

Spoiler

but then loses again

That's it.

The characters all sucked, too. Celes was OK and I liked Sabin powerbombing a train, but I had 0 attachment to any of them. Music was inferior to VII. The only thing that could be said is the art style. I would fight somebody for a sprite-based top-down FFVII.

 

[antitrop]

Final Fantasy VI and VII are both masterpieces.

 

[Lister]

Stardew Valley? STAR DEW VALLEY? Ahead of somethign like Pillars and other RPG'S in a list of top RPG's.

They really did hit randomize, didn't they?

 

[jrush64]

Final Fantasy VII that low? Stardew Valley above it? Xenoblade Chronices that low? That's some serious bullshit.

 

[chekhonte]

Stardew Valley? STAR DEW VALLEY? Ahead of somethign like Pillars and other RPG'S in a list of top RPG's.

They really did hit randomize, didn't they?

Yeah you have to ask yourself if in 10 years, you could go up to 10 people who like games and ask them if they know star dew valley would even 5 of them be familiar with it?

 

[Antiwhippy]

Stardew valley is super dope.

 

[Crono27]

Yeah you have to ask yourself if in 10 years, you could go up to 10 people who like games and ask them if they know star dew valley would even 5 of them be familiar with it?

You could say that about a lot of games... doesn't mean it's not great. By that logic cod is the best shooter ever made.

 

[PK Gaming]

Assuming FF6 ends up being in the top 10 (if not outright #1) I have to wonder what makes it 40+ places higher than FF7. The gameplay is worse than FF7. It's pretty unique when it comes to characters and storytelling (well not that unique, it's basically star wars), and it probably has the best cast in the series, but... I don't think its that fun of a game. Plus the World of Ruin could have been better.

It's definitely not that big of a deal in the end but FF7 is definitely being old short here.

 

[kromeo]

I blame hipsters for FFVIII being denied top spot as well

 

[QuantumZebra]

If I had to make a prediction of the top 10 it would be:

1. Chrono Trigger
2. The Witcher III
3. Baldur's Gate II
4. Final Fantasy VI
5. Dark Souls
6. Skyrim
7. Mass Effect II
8. Diablo II
9. World of Warcraft
10. Pokémon Red and Blue (though it should be a later entry)

The order may change around but if I were a betting man I think at least 7 of those are in their Top 10. I edited out Planescape: Torment, but that has a good shot too.

That's a good list, but I fixed it for you:

1. Final Fantasy VII
2. Deus Ex
3. Baldur's Gate II
4. System Shock 2
5. Knights of the Old Republic
6. Demon's Souls
7. Final Fantasy X
8. Diablo II
9. Bloodborne
10. EverQuest

___________


on topic: lol FFVII below Stardew Valley? get fucked IGN

There aren't enough thinking face emojis in the world to illustrate the intense irony here.

There's no irony at all. FF6 is undoubtedly top 5, but so is VII. There's only 5 critically acclaimed / has a "following" / renowned Final Fantasies... outside of the people who still say FF1 is the best. Those people are "special".

For reference in no order:

XI
X
VII
VI
XII

- My point was VI isn't in the top 3 of those for me, but those are objectively the best FFs going by WOM, crtiics, etc.Maybe I diluted my point a bit, idk.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

Yes! It is nauseating. Especially the hipsters. "FF6 is the best and FFVII isn't even top 5".. like.. gtfo, opinions and all, but there is some level of objectivity in video game quality.

I played FF6 again recently and beat it along with doing all the side stuff... and no, it is not better than FFVII (which I also beat recently).

In fact FF6 isn't even top 3 for me (IX, X, VII). Kefka is literally the Joker from Batman, but he wins in the end

Spoiler

but then loses again

That's it.

The characters all sucked, too. Celes was OK and I liked Sabin powerbombing a train, but I had 0 attachment to any of them. Music was inferior to VII. The only thing that could be said is the art style. I would fight somebody for a sprite-based top-down FFVII.

There aren't enough thinking face emojis in the world to illustrate the intense irony here.

 

[Jennipeg]

Final Fantasy VI and VII are both masterpieces.

Yep, totally agree. The only small fault I have with VII is the odd story telling misstep. An example being the black materia, Cloud just announces its what Sephiroth is after, and it always felt like there was a scene missing because it was never mentioned before.

 

[Tiops]

50 - Persona 5
47 - Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

When you think the list couldn't get any worse...

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Hopefully Tactics ranks the highest of the FFs. 6,7,9, and 12 are all good too, and it would be great to see 5 make a high appearance.

 

[kromeo]

Final Fantasy VI and VII are both masterpieces.

There's 8 Final Fantasy masterpieces as it happens

 

[TwoDurans]

Most of these titles are far too low on the list. Makes me nervous this is going to become one of those "the only good games are classics" lists where Zork and Final Fantasy 2 will be #1 and #2.

 

[Antiwhippy]

50 - Persona 5
47 - Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

When you think the list couldn't get any worse...

... it got better!

 

[Tiops]

... it got better!

It's not a list of "edgiest RPGs", it's for the best RPGs.

 

[CorporateClown]

When the list has already covered FF VI and Vii, Persona 3 and 5, and Xenogears with 40 entries left, your list is in trouble.

Spoiler

IMO of course

 

[QuantumZebra]

76 - Icewind Dale II
75 - The Legend of Dragoon
74 - Disgaea: Hour of Darkness
73 - The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
72 - Neverwinter Nights 2
71 - Jade Empire
70 - Fire Emblem Awakening
69 - Odin Sphere Leifthrasir
68 - Undertale
67 - Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch
66 - Pool of Radiance
65 - Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
64 - Lunar: Eternal Blue
63 - Phantasy Star Online
62 - Breath of Fire III
61 - Lunar: Silver Star Story
60 - Shining Force II
59 - Golden Sun
58 - Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals
57 - Tales of Vesperia
56 - Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
55 - Shadow Hearts: Covenant
54 - The World Ends With You
53 - Phantasy Star IV
52 - Final Fantasy VII
51 - Stardew Valley
50 - Persona 5
49 - Xenoblade Chronicles
48 - Dragon Age: Origins
47 - Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3
46 - Grandia II
45 - Demon's Souls
44 - Xenogears
43 - Tales of Symphonia
42 - Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines
41 - Skies of Arcadia

All the right games, all the wrong places.

The bolded should all be top 30 at minimum, FFVII and Demon's Souls are top 5.

I can only think of 5 masterpieces in the series. I'm discounting 2 of my personal favourites (VIII and XII) as objectively speaking they don't fall into that category. I also haven't played V.

IV, VI, VII, IX, X

Which others would you add? Do we count Tactics?

I counted 5 in my post as well. But I had XII in for IV. You're right though, IV should be above XII.

 

[Jennipeg]

There's 8 Final Fantasy masterpieces as it happens

I can only think of 5 masterpieces in the series. I'm discounting 2 of my personal favourites (VIII and XII) as objectively speaking they don't fall into that category. I also haven't played V.

IV, VI, VII, IX, X

Which others would you add? Do we count Tactics?

 

[Lothar]

Lufia 2 and Dragon Quest 8 being low are the ones people should be complaining about not FFVII. Can anyone argue that FFVII is better at Lufia 2 in anything? How could it possibly be above Lufia 2?

 

[kromeo]

I can only think of 5 masterpieces in the series. I'm discounting 2 of my personal favourites (VIII and XII) as objectively speaking they don't fall into that category. I also haven't played V.

IV, VI, VII, IX, X

Which others would you add? Do we count Tactics?

I was counting tactics and also XI, although that one is not obviously going to be relevant to everyone

 

[InsaneFandom]

50 - Persona 5
47 - Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

When you think the list couldn't get any worse...

Ikr
I mean Persona 5 is awesome but Persona 3 should be way ahead, somewhere in the 20's or 30's at least


.
I like this list so far. It's put a couple games on my radar that I'd probably never have played otherwise & seeing some of my favourite RPGs there is cool.
There are way more than 100 fantastic RPGs so some were always going to be left out

I never think the actual numbering of these lists matters much outside the top 10 or so. It'll be interesting to compare the final list with game informer's

 

[shoryukens]

The Personas and Super Mario RPG are too low in my opinion. And wow people believe Final Fantasy has 8 masterpieces. I believe 5 is the only one close to be called a masterpiece.

 

[Jennipeg]

I was counting tactics and also XI, although that one is not obviously going to be relevant to everyone

Oh yeah, I forget about XI. Seeing VII so low makes me uncertain about the others. IV, VI and Tactics will definitely be in there. But i'm not sure about the others now, I initially thought VIII would make the list... not anymore lol.

 

[antitrop]

Lufia 2 and Dragon Quest 8 being low are the ones people should be complaining about not FFVII. Can anyone argue that FFVII is better at Lufia 2 in anything? How could it possibly be above Lufia 2?

Lufia 2 is pretty great.

 

[GDJustin]

My favorite part of this topic is when someone complains about a game being in position X, and people can't tell if they're salty about the game being too high, or too low.

That alone should be enough for people to take a step back and just go with the flow.

We like Tales of Symphonia. We aren't wild about FF7. It's fine. There's lots and lots of RPGs out there so to be on this list at all is to be upper crust.

 

[Nottle]

I can only think of 5 masterpieces in the series. I'm discounting 2 of my personal favourites (VIII and XII) as objectively speaking they don't fall into that category. I also haven't played V.

IV, VI, VII, IX, X

Which others would you add? Do we count Tactics?

Give V a shot sometime, while it's story is rediculous and not self serious in any way, its gameplay is a whole lot of fun. I would rank it up there with the games you mentioned. Think Something similar to be way character progression and jobs work in Tactics. Mix this one classes abilities with this other class and begin to demolish everything. Really fun self imposed challenge play throughs.

 

[Jennipeg]

Give V a shot sometime, while it's story is rediculous and not self serious in any way, its gameplay is a whole lot of fun. I would rank it up there with the games you mentioned. Think Something similar to be way character progression and jobs work in Tactics. Mix this one classes abilities with this other class and begin to demolish everything. Really fun self imposed challenge play throughs.

Its definitely on my list of games to play. Is the PSN version ok? I know I need to avoid the weird mobile remake.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Its definitely on my list of games to play. Is the PSN version ok? I know I need to avoid the weird mobile remake.

Not at all. The PSN version is terrible. Translation is bad, and the emulation on all of those SNES ports is not too hot.

GBA port is the best version of FFV to play.

 

[Cloud7]

Say what you what about Final Fantasy VII and it's "overratedness" due to "nostaglia" and "marketing" (none of which I believe in), but holy crap...52? No. Just no. I'm out on this list. Peace.

 

[kromeo]

Say what you what about Final Fantasy VII and it's "overratedness" due to "nostaglia" and "marketing" (none of which I believe in), but holy crap...52? No. Just no. I'm out on this list. Peace.

Avatar quote.jpg

 

[Hylian7]

Persona 3 and 5 are lower than I expected them to be, but I hope they aren't saving Persona 4 for #1.

Sadly I don't even expect them to put Nocturne on the list and recognize how genius it is.

 

[Jennipeg]

Not at all. The PSN version is terrible. Translation is bad, and the emulation on all of those SNES ports is not too hot.

GBA port is the best version of FFV to play.

Now I remember why I haven't played it, I don't have anything to play it on anymore

 

[CazTGG]

Calling it now: Awakening will be the only Fire Emblem game on the list, Bowser's Inside Story will be the highest ranking of the Mario JRPGs and Red/Blue will be in the Top 20 (where it definitely doesn't belong).

Top 3 (Prediction):

3 - Dark Souls
2 - Chrono Trigger
1 - Final Fantasy VI

 

[Nategc20]

I think morrowind should crack the top ten. In retrospect, that game was absolutely revolutionary.