Support NeoGAF

[Lumpy Onion]

Even top 20 is too many IMO. Top 100? At that point you are just throwing names on a list. With that many on there it kinda muddies whatever effort you put into your selections. Top 10 is my sweet spot for lists.

And how in heavens is FF IV ranked better than VII?

 

[Wazzy]

I'm curious as to how they're determining what ranks in this list because honestly nothing is really making sense with the positions they're in. VIII should make every list and while I'm not saying it has to be ranked high it should still be an RPG listed in top 100. Then you have X missing still which who knows if it will even rank and the low ranking of classics like DQ VIII, Chrono Cross, Front Mission 3, Kingdom Hearts, FF VII, etc and you would think their basis is gameplay and nothing else.

I'm just very confused as to what criteria games need to meet to be ranked on this mess of a list.

I like FFIV, but yeah. FFIV's story loses me pretty hard after Cecil becomes a Paladin.

I also like IV but it's one of the mainlines that get's a free pass over it's poor characters and writing which all take a nose dive in the second half of the game and it baffles me when people are so critical of games like VIII and XIII(XIII DOES deserve criticism) that at least offer a lot in other ways than just story.

I don't see how a game like IV has better music, art, story or gameplay than games like VII, VIII, X and XII. IX also beats it in everything BUT gameplay.

 

[Grimalkin]

I'm curious as to how they're determining what ranks in this list because honestly nothing is really making sense with the positions they're in. VIII should make every list and while I'm not saying it has to be ranked high it should still be an RPG listed in top 100. Then you have X missing still which who knows if it will even rank and the low ranking of classics like DQ VIII, Chrono Cross, Front Mission 3, Kingdom Hearts, FF VII, etc and you would think their basis is gameplay and nothing else.

I'm just very confused as to what criteria games need to meet to be ranked on this mess of a list.

It is nothing more than a slow news week so they make arbitrary lists to drive site hits.

"Top" is so vague that it could mean anything.

Having to commit to a more specific marker like "Most Influential" or "Best Gameplay" would be too much work and potentially expose that they may not have a clue about the genre so they just slapped "Top" on there and called it good.

I am guessing it is really "An IGN Intern's Favorite RPGs They Researched Via Wikipedia Articles".

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

64 - Lunar: Eternal Blue - The love for Lunar confused me even when it first released.

Not sure what there is to be confused there. Even if you don't like it personally, a game with voice acting, a non-chiptune soundtrack, and almost an hour of anime-style cutscenes was rather impressive for an RPG that came out in the pre-Playstation era. And since they used the game engine to do the cutscenes rather than compressed prerendered video, the image quality was DRASTICALLY better than your typical Sega CD game.

I mean, just look at this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXNHPhGjpRI&t=387s - that kind of thing was magically when your only experience with RPG graphics were tiny sprites running around tile-based maps with text boxes for dialogue.

For me personally, a big draw to Lunar: Eternal Blue beyond the technical aspects was the fact that it had an actual localization. Yeah, the dialogue might not be as good as a lot of the localizations since there, but back in the 16-bit era, I'd be hard pressed to think of another JRPG that was even in the same league other than maybe Earthbound. Half the RPGs of the era were practically incoherent, the other half were stilted, and then along comes the Lunar games where characters have personalities (even the NPCs) & there are actual jokes! Yeah, not all the jokes were funny, but even still, it was a revelation.

 

[cartman414]

Other RPGs wish they have the loot generation Diablo 2 has.

Diablo 2 wishes it had the depth other RPGs do.

Those aren't 30 years old and I've already clarified what games I'm referring to. Also those games are a chore to play, update your journal my man!
Edit: Thank you to whoever gave me the custom title, it's the truth.

What RPGs DO you consider classics?

 

[Hux1ey]

So is Oblivion not gonna be on the list or will it be higher than Morrowind cos I'm gonna bite my tongue off if it is.

 

[K.Jack]

Edit: Thank you to whoever gave me the custom title, it's the truth.

You're thanking them for mocking your ignorance, fyi.

 

[PhilipDoesMatter]

FF VI will be number one. I am amazed by how young this audience seems to be by putting only Witcher 3, Botw, Mass Effect on the top 5. Go play THE CLASSIC!

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

FF VI will be number one. I am amazed by how young this audience seems to be by putting only Witcher 3, Botw, Mass Effect on the top 5. Go play THE CLASSIC!

Those posts are digs at IGN rather than the poster's opinion, I believe.

 

[Big Green Anus]

With regards to Persona 3 being higher than Persona 5, one of the important things about RPG games is the story, which Persona 3 and Persona 4 are stronger than Persona 5(I'm not far, but story no gripping me yet).

 

[ItsTheNew]

Diablo 2 wishes it had the depth other RPGs do.



What RPGs DO you consider classics?

Realistic top 5 in no particular order (according to their criteria)
1: Skyrim
2: Pokémon (probably RBY or GSP)
3: WoW
4: FF6/FF7
5: Mass Effect 2

Best mix of gameplay mechanics, popularity, cultural impact and most importantly, people have actually played them unlike those mummified pc rpgs that probably one person on staff filibustered for. If you need to know DOS to play a game, it ain't worth playing.

You're thanking them for mocking your ignorance, fyi.

And you're pointing out the obvious

 

[NSESN]

Second best Pokemon made it. Now put HGSS in top 10 and I will be very happy.

 

[cartman414]

Realistic top 5 in no particular order (according to their criteria)
1: Skyrim
2: Pokémon (probably RBY or GSP)
3: WoW
4: FF6/FF7
5: Mass Effect 2

Best mix of gameplay mechanics, popularity, cultural impact and most importantly, people have actually played them unlike those mummified pc rpgs that probably one person on staff filibustered for. If you need to know DOS to play a game, it ain't worth playing.

Joke's on you. You don't need DOS to play BG2 or Planescape.

ME2? Too watered down. Ditto Skyrim.
And Pokemon? You call out PC RPGs for being antiquated yet list Pokemon even in spite of its grindiness and that for too long it relied on the same RPG system largely ganked from the original Dragon Quest?

Also, popularity is a poor criteria, otherwise Titanic would be near the top of every best film of all time list despite having crap writing.

 

[kswiston]

I don't see how a game like IV has better music, art, story or gameplay than games like VII, VIII, X and XII. IX also beats it in everything BUT gameplay.

Assuming that we are talking about the SNES version and not the remake (which seems to be the case), I don't see how FFIX loses on Gameplay. SNES FFIV (and all of the versions based on that) is pretty brain dead. Zero character progression to worry about beyond remembering to equip the newest gear. No party dynamics to experiment with, because you have forced parties the entire game. No need to manage buffs on your party or status effects on enemies. Having faster battles doesnt negate that.

 

[NewGame]

Looool demon souls is probably going to be below derp souls gb2ezsouls you pleb

 

[Taruranto]

You know I always wonder how many people who do these lists actually played more than 100 RPG.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Joke's on you. You don't need DOS to play BG2 or Planescape.

ME2? Too watered down. Ditto Skyrim.
And Pokemon? You call out PC RPGs for being antiquated yet list Pokemon even in spite of its grindiness and that for too long it relied on the same RPG system largely ganked from the original Dragon Quest?

Also, popularity is a poor criteria, otherwise Titanic would be near the top of every best film of all time list despite having crap writing.

Off topic, but I can't agree that Titanic has crap writing. It is not exceptional, but it doesn't fall apart despite being so long, nor it has unexplainable changes in character motivations, plot holes, or straight up nonsensical scenes that I would attribute to a script to be truly be labeled as crap. Writing is more than what it is spoken by the character, which is indeed not a strong part of that film, however.

 

[ULTROS!]

40 - Final Fantasy IX
39 - Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen
38 - Fallout
37 - Fire Emblem
36 - Neverwinter Nights
35 - Baldur's Gate
34 - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
33 - Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride
32 - Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
31 - Final Fantasy XII
30 - Pokémon Sun and Moon
29 - Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate
28 - Fallout: New Vegas
27 - Bloodborne
26 - Mass Effect
25 - The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
24 - Ultima VII: The Black Gate
23 - System Shock 2
22 - Final Fantasy IV
21 - The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

 

[kswiston]

You know I always wonder how many people who do these lists actually played more than 100 RPG.

It wouldn't be that hard if you have been reviewing games professionally for a decade or two, and were a fan previously.

I barely beat games anymore (and definitely don't get paid to play them), but I have still played well over 100 RPGs by virtue of playing video games for close to 30 years.

 

[QuantumZebra]

....Play Planescape Torment or Baldurs Gate 2.

The story and characters will topple about any new rpg these days.

This ^^^^^^^^ x1000

Anyone that thinks BG2 or Planescape is a lesser RPG than Skyrim is IMO legitimately insane. If you take graphics out of the equation its like saying Superman 64 is better than The Last of Us

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

I don't know why both GI and IGN think System Shock 2 is an RPG, its an FPS with RPG elements same as Deus Ex.

 

[ItsTheNew]

Joke's on you. You don't need DOS to play BG2 or Planescape.

I never said they did, as I have both (although I returned BG2 for being too boring as a teen)
My original point that no one is even bothering to defend is that ALL wizardry and ultima games (aside from UO) don't have a place on this list. Also for you mathematicians at home 30 years ago was 1987, not these 90's games people keep trying to steawman me with.

 

[kswiston]

My original point that no one is even bothering to defend is that ALL wizardry and ultima games (aside from UO) don't have a place on this list. Also for you mathematicians at home 30 years ago was 1987, not these 90's games people keep trying to steawman me with.

Some of the Ultima and Wizardry entries were 90s (or later) games. Ultima VII was 1992. Ultima Underworld was 1993. Wizardry 8 was 2001.

EDIT: In fact, the only 80s game from those series on the list is Ultima IV. Perhaps you are just unfamiliar with the series. Ultima VII is a bit rough looking because of its perspective, but the rest are fine.

 

[ItsTheNew]

Some of the Ultima and Wizardry entries were 90s (or later) games. Ultima VII was 1992. Ultima Underworld was 1993. Wizardry 8 was 2001.

I did say all, right?

 

[maabus1999]

Fallout 2, 3, and 4 not on the list yet. I could see 4 falling off but not sure about 2 and 3.

 

[Oracle Dragon]

24 - Ultima VII: The Black Gate

Hey, made it on there and a respectable placing as well, okay!

I'm also happy to see NWN up there; I adored this game and sunk many, many hours into it. It's low-mid level game was some of the best D&D I've played, especially when grouped up with friends. I still have fond memories of some of those dungeons, with the camera in "driver mode" as my feeble flame arrows bounced off a Zombie Lords Spell Mantle, while my friends hacked away at it in vain.

26 - Mass Effect

I think this is the first game where I remember voice acting actually being a draw, and I paid attention to it and cared. I kept hearing such great things about Jennifer Hales performance (and this was at a time when it was like... "what? You guys know the names of the voice actors??"). Well it made me try it out, and it really made me appreciate the character. After a few playthroughs of ME1, it was FemShep4Life!

I never said they did, as I have both (although I returned BG2 for being too boring as a teen)
My original point that no one is even bothering to defend is that ALL wizardry and ultima games (aside from UO) don't have a place on this list. Also for you mathematicians at home 30 years ago was 1987, not these 90's games people keep trying to steawman me with.

I can't agree with that one; for certain the real oldies are tough to get in to. But Ultima 7 + Exult is no different than playing a "remaster" style game for any reasonably modern title, and the game itself still holds up very well today. Personally I find the early 3D stuff has aged way worse than the even older games (especially if you can find a way to get the res up a bit). But, maybe that is just thanks to resurgence in "pixel/retro" style games these days.

 

[kswiston]

I did say all, right?

And that is ridiculous, unless you are also against all of the 8bit/16bit console games on the list.

 

[Jawbreaker]

40 - Final Fantasy IX
39 - Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen
38 - Fallout
37 - Fire Emblem
36 - Neverwinter Nights
35 - Baldur's Gate
34 - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
33 - Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride
32 - Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
31 - Final Fantasy XII
30 - Pokémon Sun and Moon
29 - Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate
28 - Fallout: New Vegas
27 - Bloodborne
26 - Mass Effect
25 - The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
24 - Ultima VII: The Black Gate
23 - System Shock 2
22 - Final Fantasy IV
21 - The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

Yikes.

Edit: Misread it as XIII. Carry on.

 

[Wolf Parade]

I have so much to say about this list, but I'm tired, so for now i'll just give IGN kudos for the high placement of Shining Force 2 and OGRE BATTLE. Such an incredibly underrated gem of a game.

 

[Zantetsuken]

Legend of Dragoon is way too far down.

 

[massoluk]

Wow, FF 9 and New Vegas so soon?

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yikes.

The only final fantasy I've liked honestly.

 

[kswiston]

Legend of Dragoon is way too far down.

Legend of Dragoon is one of those games that wasn't considered particularly good in JRPG circles until kids from the late 90s grew up. It had mediocre reviews back when it was released, and no Nier-like misunderstood gem reputation in the entire generation that followed its release. I have only really noticed enthusiasm picking up for that game this decade. I have no other explanation for why there would be a reversal in opinion.

You should probably be content with it being on the list at all. It's basically the equivalent of Army of Two if you were making a list for Third person shooters.

 

[RespectThySole]

Freedom Force is an underrated gem. Surprised to see it on here.

 

[MegaSackman]

At least this one has FFXII in it.

 

[kswiston]

Wow, FF 9 and New Vegas so soon?

I was going to say that Tactics and FF6 were the only two left that would rank, making FF9's placement in relation to the others games in the series fine. But I guess FFX is likely to be in the top 20, which is probably going to be a point of contention for some.

 

[Beatofficer]

Makes me sad not seeing Wild Arms listed. I'd be genuinely shocked if they put it in the top 20. No Suikoden games yet either.

There will never be a list everyone agrees with and that's OK.

 

[Defective14]

I can already guess their top 5
1. Witcher 3
2. Zelda BotW
3. Skyrim
4. FF7
5. Mass Effect 2

Did you not read the list? FF7 ranks at #52.

This IGN list is a total joke.

 

[kswiston]

Makes me sad not seeing Wild Arms listed. I'd be genuinely shocked if they put it in the top 20. No Suikoden games yet either.

There will never be a list everyone agrees with and that's OK.

Suikoden II will almost definitely be in the top 20. In the last version of this list, it was #44.

I'm hoping that Panzer Dragoon saga makes a surprise top 20 appearance, but it wouldn't surprise me if it has been forgotten.

 

[BumRush]

I was going to say that Tactics and FF6 were the only two left that would rank, making FF9's placement in relation to the others games in the series fine. But I guess FFX is likely to be in the top 20, which is probably going to be a point of contention for some.

Many of the (more divisive) FFs like X, XII, etc are either loved or hated by most. Not surprised it'll end up in IGNs top 20 just as I wouldn't be surprised if it was off the list.

 

[terencecah]

They should really record their meetings and put them on a podcast like how giant bomb does

i don't really care about lists as much as I like hearing people thoughtfully argue about them

 

[kswiston]

Many of the (more divisive) FFs like X, XII, etc are either loved or hated by most. Not surprised it'll end up in IGNs top 20 just as I wouldn't be surprised if it was off the list.

I actually really enjoy all of the titles between V-XII for various reasons. I'm much cooler on FFIV, but it is still good if you want a very simple RPG. FF1 is super old, but still decent. FF XIII has a good battle system, but isn't really worth playing for the 20-25 hours it takes before the game allows you to actually use it. I haven't played enough of II, III, and XV to properly rate them.

 

[cpp_is_king]

the list is correct if and only if Dark Souls is #1

 

[zashga]

Hey, Lufia 2 is there, and in a pretty decent position. I like this list.

 

[night814]

This list is redic and will only cause people to be butt hurt. That said I'm butt hurt Super Mario RPG is in the middle of the list

 

[JeTmAn81]

the list is correct if and only if Dark Souls is #1

Top ten for sure but there's no clear #1 when it comes to RPG's.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Yeah, PM:TTYD!

FE7 is also very cool to see, but uh, what's with the banner being from FE1?

Anyway, this means EarthBound's in the top 20! Yeehaw!

I can agree with that at least. Vesperia and Symphonia are close for me, but having played both recently I definitely feel like Symphonia hasn't aged as well as I'd have liked it to.

Normally I don't bitch about lists like this, but...

Tales of Symphonia > Tales of Vesperia?

I don't see how anyone could come to that conclusion. I guess Symphonia did have more impact in the west due to it coming out on the Gamecube during a dry period, but Vesperia is pretty much better in every way. Sure the plot shits the bed in the 3rd act, but I could say the same for Symphonia and a good portion of Tales games.

Symphonia's very much a "you had to be there" thing. The Gamecube was starving for RPGs and along comes a 40+ hour title packed to the brim with side-quests/content and multiplayer and multiple endings and possibly the most beloved cast in series history. I'll be honest in saying it looked dated even for its time but there was more than enough "game" to sink your teeth so it was easier to ignore in those days. Now, it's definitely a harder sell; I get torn because I'd love a Symphonia remake so we could scrub the dated graphics/awkward script ala FF7, but when considering Namco's current output quality for Tales...well...

Vesperia was when the series peaked and I'll readily admit it did many things better, but personally speaking the story relied too much on baiting/wild goose chases; meanwhile, Symphonia's definitely weird in that there's a distinct imbalance in quality between the voiced/non-voiced cutscenes and the skits (the non-voiced ones being easily the worst), but it sticks with its themes and it wraps up everything rather nicely. I'd argue Abyss is probably the most well-rounded title, however.

 

[Dangansona]

This list is boo boo. All the best games are in the 70-45 range. FFIV, Elder Scrolls, Monster Hunter among others too high.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Dragon Quest V is pretty damn good and the game feels longer than it actually is. It has great presentation. The only bad thing about it is the encounter rate. That shit is so damn high and you have little control over it. Holy Water and the spells only work for weaker encounters so they're basically useless when you're going to a new area for the first time. I don't know why they couldn't just made them like repels in pokemon. I also feel that maybe they could've reduced the prices on some equipment. I always felt like I was on a strict budget whenever I arrive at a new town.

 

[BumRush]

I actually really enjoy all of the titles between V-XII for various reasons. I'm much cooler on FFIV, but it is still good if you want a very simple RPG. FF1 is super old, but still decent. FF XIII has a good battle system, but isn't really worth playing for the 20-25 hours it takes before the game allows you to actually use it. I haven't played enough of II, III, and XV to properly rate them.

Agree with pretty much everything you said (especially that FFIV is too "simple"). I finished XV earlier this year and it has some great aspects (e.g. Battle system) and some WTF aspects (e.g. Story).