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[Ionic]

-Bought the creators of Portal

You know, the whole Valve doesn't make games thing has been trodden billions of times already, but this one always bugs me the most. Valve didn't hire the people who made Portal. They hired some people who made a small student game called Narbacular Drop. Narbacular Drop freakin' looks like this.

Those few new hires didn't enter Valve and then singlehandedly make Portal (it's assets, it's characters, etc) without any input from the other prior dozens of Valve employees. The company saw a cool gameplay idea, hired the developers instead of just taking the idea and using it, and then formed a team of people to make the game. Portal is a Valve grown product!

 

[cicero]

So because Valve hires talented people they don't make games anymore? So I guess you must think very few if any developers actually make games because every one I know of hires people from other companies.

You can only claim that your company created something when the core group you started with does the creating. Any additional hiring isn't legitimate. These are the official rules of development.

 

[Roshin]

...and Steam's Customer Support is well-known to be nearly non-existent...

People often say this, but I've never had a problem with it. When I contact them, I get a reply within 24 hours and they have always been helpful and friendly.

I must be unique or something.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Except GOG has one of the worst downloaders in the industry.

In their defense, it's completely optional, though. If you just want to download the exe files and go, you can do that. They know their audience.

 

[FriedConsole]

This is how cults and conspiracies begin. Instead of taking a moment to reflect that you might be wrong when the vast majority shouts you down, you instead close ranks with a small number of other like-minded crazies and postulate that you lucky few are actually the only one's seeing the truth and that everyone else must be blind.

I don't think the Valve defense force are that crazy to equate them to a cult.

 

[mrlion]

-*People complain about Steam*
-*They still use it...*

 

[samn]

This question says more of the person using the tool rather than an issue with the tool itself. I don't see this as a fault with the program rather than a stick in the mud who isn't willing to learn what will take all of 2 minutes to figure out how to make the thing work the way he wants it to work.

It's really important in software that people shouldn't have to consciously 'learn' how it works. This isn't Photoshop. They should simply start using the program. It should get out of the way as much as possible and focus on the user's convenience.

There's no indication that there even is a setting to disable ads, and a first-time user will likely have to Google to find it. Then they need to make 5 clicks. Why wouldn't Steam have this option upon installation, or on the popup ad itself? Perhaps because they have poor designers - or perhaps because they don't want people to disable it. In either case the user can smell that the software doesn't really care about them and it leaves a bad lasting impression.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

People often say this, but I've never had a problem with it. When I contact them, I get a reply within 24 hours and they have always been helpful and friendly.

I must be unique or something.

You probably weren't demanding a refund that they weren't obligated to honor.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It's really important in software that people shouldn't have to consciously 'learn' how it works. This isn't Photoshop. They should simply start using the program. It should get out of the way as much as possible and focus on the user's convenience.

This is where I disagree, I guess. The first thing I do with any program or game is check the settings.

 

[theusedversion]

This is how cults and conspiracies begin. Instead of taking a moment to reflect that you might be wrong when the vast majority shouts you down, you instead close ranks with a small number of other like-minded crazies and postulate that you lucky few are actually the only one's seeing the truth and that everyone else must be blind.

You seem personally offended that I don't agree with Valve's tactics as of late. Equating to cults and calling those not in agreement crazies. Wow. Ok, you are right and I am wrong. I will fall in line so I can be just like everyone else because you couldn't possibly be wrong. SMH

 

[samn]

This is where I disagree, I guess. The first thing I do with any program or game is check the settings.

In many cases it is unavoidable that settings need to be configured, but I think this is a sign that so much software is thoughtlessly put together/at odds with the user's goals that it becomes a habit to work around those bumps.

You seem personally offended that I don't agree with Valve's tactics as of late. Equating to cults and calling those not in agreement crazies. Wow. Ok, you are right and I am wrong. I will fall in line so I can be just like everyone else because you couldn't possibly be wrong. SMH

stop criticising Valve you 'troll'

Take a look at who is agreeing, and hang around in PC threads. It's the usual suspects.

People who hold opinions continue to hold the same opinions shocker

 

[theusedversion]

Take a look at who is agreeing, and hang around in PC threads. It's the usual suspects.

Am I a usual suspect?

 

[Sushi Nao]

My gaming pc died a few months ago, and as a poor student I haven't had the funds to re-up, so I've been free from the steam ecosystem for a while. Feels pretty good! I think any storefront with the kind of power that steam has will eventually lose sight of the consumer focus and go more and more towards profit. Like how half the youtube main page, or google search page, is just giant fuckin ads.

I'm happy I have that backlog to pick up when I'm flush again, but glad I don't have to see steam go down that gross road.

 

[injurai]

I think Greenlight was their great mistake. Side issue, it's the worst UI I've seen developed by a prominent company since 2006. It is some serious old school shit that they implemented Greenlight and the Workshop in.

 

[corrosivefrost]

It all makes perfect sense now... look at the logo... clever Valve.

 

[Bry0]

This is how cults and conspiracies begin. Instead of taking a moment to reflect that you might be wrong when the vast majority shouts you down, you instead close ranks with a small number of other like-minded crazies and postulate that you lucky few are actually the only one's seeing the truth and that everyone else must be blind.

Haha really dude? People who are frustrated with Valve are a cult of crazies hunh? Just because he doesnt agree with you does not mean he is wrong. Gun crates in csgo are a perfect example of manipulating human psychology to make money.

 

[Real Hero]

Valve and steam are some of the better aspects of gaming as a whole.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

My gaming pc died a few months ago, and as a poor student I haven't had the funds to re-up, so I've been free from the steam ecosystem for a while. Feels pretty good! I think any storefront with the kind of power that steam has will eventually lose sight of the consumer focus and go more and more towards profit. Like how half the youtube main page, or google search page, is just giant fuckin ads.

I'm happy I have that backlog to pick up when I'm flush again, but glad I don't have to see steam go down that gross road.

You don't even know what you're talking about.

No other client gives you the level of freedom over what you see than Steam.

Haha really dude? People who are frustrated with Valve are a cult of crazies hunh? Just because he doesnt agree with you does not mean he is wrong. Gun crates in csgo are a perfect example of manipulating human psychology to make money.

Is it that hard to read in context instead of spotting a word and immediately jumping to type up a nonsensical rant in a frenzy?

Guy says some nonsense about Steam and Valve with the basis not being any kind of evidence, but merely what he believes. Most people do not agree with him. He follows up with a post where he's almost patting himself on the back because a couple of other posters agree with him and "might also see what he does."

He can criticize Valve all he wants--I certainly won't be bothered, but I just found his behavior to be a bit funny and called it out (albeit perhaps with a bit of hyperbole).

 

[Krejlooc]

I don't think many people who frequent these kinds of threads know what the word "bloat" means. Bloat doesn't refer to many options or a confusing ux, bloat refers to a program using an inordinately high percentage of your cpu or occupying a large memory footprint. Steam uses 7% of my cpu and occupies less than 100 mb of ram on any given action. Steam's client isn't bloated just because you don't like the ui.

I can't believe I saw someone honestly compare steam to real player.

 

[samn]

I don't think many people who frequent these kinds of threads know what the word "bloat" means. Bloat doesn't refer to many options or a confusing ux, bloat refers to a program using an inordinately high percentage of your cpu or occupying a large memory footprint. Steam uses 7% of my cpu and occupies less than 100 mb of ram on any given action. Steam's client isn't bloated just because you don't like the ui.

I can't believe I saw someone honestly compare steam to real player.

I'm using it in this context:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_bloat

 

[jotun?]

Steam Sales and Events used to involve playing games, exploring your back catalog, and watching fun events like ARGs unfold. Now they're sadistic and cynical Skinner Boxes where you buy more so that you can spend more and (maybe) end up with something for your time, trouble and money. And if you do get anything, there's a good chance it'll be some "currency" that only exists in the Steam ecosystem so that you're trapped in an endless cycle of trying to balance out or just cutting your losses and accepting that you have money you can't spend. The recent "Holiday Auction" event felt like it was *just* this side of online gambling.

Yeah, I loved the events they used to have that involved getting achievements in games, and a lot of game devs would add content specifically for the events.

Ever since they introduced cards and badges their events have completely lost my interest

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm using it in this context:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_bloat

From that:

In software design, interface bloat (also called fat interfaces by Bjarne Stroustrup and Refused Bequests by Martin Fowler) is when a computer interface incorporates too many operations on some data into an interface, only to find that most of the objects cannot perform the given operations.

What's an example of "most of the objects" on Steam not being able to "perform the given operations?"

 

[Omega]

So if Steam's barely even a game developer at this point, then what's left? You'd think if their only duties were to be glorified shopkeepers and maintenance on the Steam Servers that they'd at least manage to do a good job of those, but Steam goes down *constantly* and randomly.

Honestly the worst part about Steam/Valve, mainly because it shows they just don't give a fuck anymore. Even their baby DOTA2 is suffering from what I've heard.

Hopefully when H-Hour releases it's good and can be my replacement for CSGO because this is just getting ridiculous at this point. I can't even enjoy a game without getting 1000 ping and not being able to leave spawn for 45 seconds

 

[Krejlooc]

I'm using it in this context:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_bloat

Then you should specify interface bloat because bloat in general does not refer to what you are complaining about.

Even then, you're using it hyperbolically. Interface bloat refers to useless and redundant interfaces, not many options.

An option being buried under menus isn't "interface bloat."

 

[samn]

From that:



What's an example of "most of the objects" on Steam not being able to "perform the given operations?"

Sorry about that, I should have looked more closely.

Perhaps what I mean is 'interface clutter'? Basically I'm saying it's a difficult program to navigate. It certainly feels slow and bloated to use, for me.

 

[One-Shot]

I'm beginning to feel OP wants to complain about things that actually don't affect him if he chooses.

 

[GreatestHits]

Valve is-

Developing a console that will bring some PC masterness to the couch

Constantly updating one of the best SDKs out there for the community

Developing their own VR solutions and working on integration across the board (SDK, Steambox, it's all getting or already ready for VR)

Pioneering, sustaining, and always improving the best PC store ever made

Creating a REAL economy out of gamers and developers (that suprasses 3rd world countries)

Valve don't care. When WW3 ends, after all the rubble, there will be Valve, and we won't trade in bottlecaps, it'll be hats.

I say all this and I haven't been a PC gamer in like 7 years. Valve is untouchable man. If they release HL3 that would just be an instant shoe-in for President of the World for Gabe

 

[Leafhopper]

People often say this, but I've never had a problem with it. When I contact them, I get a reply within 24 hours and they have always been helpful and friendly.

I must be unique or something.

I only had one real problem. I got locked out of my account and they got it back to me in a few hours after I showed proof of purchase by taking a picture of my copy of TF2 and my support ticket.

Kinda grateful that my first Steam game was that physical copy of TF2 I own.

Also these complaints from people seem like laziness of not going to the settings and see what you can enable or disable. Not only that basic filters in plain site make me wonder if they know how to navigate a modern website. Is this the same people who want a refund because they used their Dualshock 4 on the PS3 and bought a bunch of shit on their PS4 that got turned on as well?

 

[Into]

I have a geniune question: Do you actually like, say, even half of the games you bought on Steam?

Let me define "like", a game that you have put significant time in and/or beaten? Meaning that merely booting a game up and playing it for 10 min does not count?

Because it sounds like you are just bored of the games, and looking at Steam...yeah i can sorta agree with you there. The only game ive been engaged with on Steam has been Civ 5 and DOTA in the last few years. I spend more time playing the 4-5 Blizzard games on BNET app, than i do with the 50+ games i got on Steam. And 50 is peanuts compared to what some people here have (200+)

 

[cicero]

As someone newish to steam...

I dont understand why I cannot filter titles by price, developer and date of release.

You can, it is the "search the store" feature on right-hand side of the bar found on the top of every store page. You can filter by ANY of those......

I dont understand any of this trading card/hoilday badge/community choice stuff, nor do I want to.

Then why mention it specifically if you didn't want an explanation, opinion, or comment of any kind about it? Other than to loudly proclaim your own disapproval by vocally maintaining a continued state of willful ignorance about it.

I do nit understand why a downloaded game still needs to install.

For the obvious reason that it would be ridiculous to install 50GB games directly from the cloud instead of downloading the installation packages to the consumer's computer first where they could be installed at their leisure without interruption, unlike say, an actual program/game installation over the internet.

I feel Steam appeals to a community that I am not only not part of, but have no interest in. The "hats" stuff is especially banal and bizarre. As a storefront, it somehow fails even when compared to the clusterfuck that is PSN on some levels.

Who cares if you have no interest in hats. When were those cosmetic items ever supposed to appeal to EVERY single player of the games who have them? They weren't, and you are free to ignore them like so many people do. Or profit from them by selling free random drops you can receive by actually playing the games involved.

As a dedicated program, its hot garbage and is basically bloatware. I find itunes to have more practical use.

"Hot garbage" whose simple front page features seem to still elude you for some strange reason. Your comparison to iTunes is just laughable.

 

[draetenth]

I can't really agree with the "hostage" thing. I've been a Steam user for 9 years. I've never added any friends, crafted badges (I do sell any cards I get from buying games during holiday sales on the community market thing), or played any of the Holiday games (like the coal thing or the gem thing). I haven't tried Big-Picture mode. I couldn't tell you how any of that stuff works.

I simply add games to my wishlist, buy games, run Steam to download/install them, and play the games. That's it... Nothing complicated so I don't really get this "hostage" issue.

 

[Jebusman]

Sorry about that, I should have looked more closely.

Perhaps what I mean is 'interface clutter'? Basically I'm saying it's a difficult program to navigate. It certainly feels slow and bloated to use, for me.

Clutter is probably a more correct term. And I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that it can be as much fault of a user for not wanting to learn, along with the fault of the developer for presenting it the way they did.

 

[Bry0]

I have a geniune question: Do you actually like, say, even half of the games you bought on Steam?

Let me define "like", a game that you have put significant time in and/or beaten? Meaning that merely booting a game up and playing it for 10 min does not count?

Because it sounds like you are just bored of the games, and looking at Steam...yeah i can sorta agree with you there. The only game ive been engaged with on Steam has been Civ 5 and DOTA in the last few years. I spend more time playing the 4-5 Blizzard games on BNET app, than i do with the 50+ games i got on Steam. And 50 is peanuts compared to what some people here have (200+)

That is kinda how i felt lately. Now with ea sticking to origin, blizzard with battle net, and bungie sticking to consoles, guild wars 2 not on steam, a lot of my favorite titles arent hitting steam. Kinda stinks since having it all in one place would be pretty cool.

 

[cicero]

In their defense, it's completely optional, though. If you just want to download the exe files and go, you can do that. They know their audience.

Indeed. It fits their audience exactly. Galaxy is something else for those who want another option.

This is where I disagree, I guess. The first thing I do with any program or game is check the settings.

This is the normal response by most sophisticated users I would imagine.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Dunno what OP is talking about.

Bought a shit ton of games in the last two days and I don't have any "currency I can't spend". Unlike Live, I spend the exact amount on games when purchased.

 

[Nethaniah]

Dunno what OP is talking about.

Bought a shit ton of games in the last two days and I don't have any "currency I can't spend". Unlike Live, I spend the exact amount on games when purchased.

This right here, fuck any store that does not let me pay the exact amount.

Had 5 orso bucks on the eshop, wanted a game that was 7,99, i had to spend 15,99 to actually buy it.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Dunno what OP is talking about.

Bought a shit ton of games in the last two days and I don't have any "currency I can't spend". Unlike Live, I spend the exact amount on games when purchased.

This right here, fuck any store that does not let me pay the exact amount.

Had 5 orso bucks on the eshop, wanted a game that was 7,99, i had to spend 15,99 to actually buy it.

The PS Store does this too. Is there any actual reason for this bullshit, or MS, Nintendo and Sony are just dicks and want that extra money?

 

[idolminds]

Except GOG has one of the worst downloaders in the industry.

How so? I click a link, it starts the download in the GOG downloader. Download completes and I run the installer. It's done exactly what I wanted it to do, every time.

 

[Sushi Nao]

You don't even know what you're talking about.

No other client gives you the level of freedom over what you see than Steam.

Jesus, man. Why so instantly dismissive? I've been on the internet since its infancy, and seen dozens of online hubs rise and fall because they got bloated and profit focused.

But fuck me, right?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Jesus, man. Why so instantly dismissive? I've been on the internet since its infancy, and seen dozens of online hubs rise and fall because they got bloated and profit focused.

But fuck me, right?

No, not fuck you. Was just pointing out that you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You even admit to not having used it "in a while."

Not even sure why you're bringing up examples of stuff like YouTube and other past "online hubs" as if they have any relevance to Steam.

Users have a good deal of freedom over how Steam behaves and what it displays.

 

[Kyzer]

Aren't they busy with steambox?

 

[Robottiimu2000]

Didn't we just have this thread?

 

[John Harker]

Games have been slowly transitioning to services/service industry for a few years now... Valve has just been one of the smartest at it.

Less and long tail is the new big and more.

 

[Teeth]

The PS Store does this too. Is there any actual reason for this bullshit, or MS, Nintendo and Sony are just dicks and want that extra money?

Credit card fees on tons of small purchases can actually hurt company bottom lines. Some eat them, some don't. Some delay charges hoping the user makes multiple purchases within a time frame to reduce the relative fee load.

 

[inm8num2]

I have nitpicks with Steam but overall it's a platform with far more benefits than drawbacks.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

-*People complain about Steam*
-*They still use it...*

Well, yes, but please try to think about why that is.

 

[Sushi Nao]

Not even sure why you're bringing up examples of stuff like YouTube and other past "online hubs" as if they have any relevance to Steam.

Because history can be examined to get a sense of where things will go in the future..? It's inevitable that a company with minimal competition will begin to drift towards self-serving rather than customer-serving. It happened with Xbox, if you'd prefer a more specific, recent relation. I'm also not sure how this fairly pedestrian economics observation is ameliorated by this nebulous "flexibility" you mention.

 

[not psycho]

I agree. Steam is even worse than a lot of competing DRM schemes.

For me the forced updates is the worst part. It's infuriating that Steam literally locks you out of fully installed, single player games as soon as an update is available. Doesn't matter if you don't want the update. Doesn't matter if it will mess up a mod, or a save, or a balance change. You're locked out. On top of that the client itself is terrible. As for the market, I guess I can see how some people would get addicted, sort of like gambling. I always considered it a very minor benefit... the small amount of money you make from it is nice but ultimately inconsequential. But if there are people going crazy on it, the infinitesimal benefit probably isn't worth it.

On the subject of feeling "hostage", there is some truth there. As DLC becomes more and more common, you can become hostage to where you bought the base game. If you buy a Steam base game you may not be able to purchase the DLC somewhere else that has a better deal.

 

[Teeth]

Because history can be examined to get a sense of where things will go in the future..? It's inevitable that a company with minimal competition will begin to drift towards self-serving rather than customer-serving. It happened with Xbox, if you'd prefer a more specific, recent relation. I'm also not sure how this fairly pedestrian economics observation is ameliorated by this nebulous "flexibility" you mention.

Not to say it will never happen, but a key difference is private vs publicly held companies.

 

[Beerman462]

And here I thought Steam was a just a really convenient place to buy games online and have access to all my games through a single portal. I don't understand the anti Steam DRM angle. I have yet to have an issue with DRM not letting me play a game and offline mode has worked for every game I have tried it with.

Do people really think the PC can or will go back to DRM free discs that you can resell? I think Steam in it's current state is pretty great. I don't really mess with any of the micro transaction stuff or the market place, but if people are willing to spend money on it more power to them.