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[Shikamaru Ninja]

When it comes to sales and acclaim they have been the number one development group in the world. Overall I think they have released too many great titles not to be, but if you look at their history for this generation, would you still agree? Opinions. Questions. Comments. Welcome.

Super Mario Bros. 3 (1988, 1989)
Super Mario World (1990)
Sim City (1990)
Pilotwings (1991)
F-Zero (1991)
The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past (1992, 1993)
Super Mario All-Stars (1993)
Star Fox (1993)
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (1994)
Stunt Race FX (1994)
Yoshi's Island (1995)
Super Mario 64 (1996)
Wave Race 64 (1996)
Star Fox 64 (1997)
Yoshi's Story (1997)
1080* Snowboarding (1998)
F-Zero X (1998)
Pokemon Stadium 1 (1998)
The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time (1998)
Pokemon Stadium 2 (1999)
Pokemon Stadium 3 (2000)
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (2000)
Mario Artist: Talent Maker (2000)
F-Zero Xpansion Kit (2000)
Luigi's Mansion (2001)
Pikmin (2001)
Animal Crossing (2002)
Super Mario Sunshine (2002)
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2002, 2003)
Pokemon Box: Ruby & Sapphire (2003)
Mario Kart: Double Dash (2003)
Pacman VS (2003)
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (2004)
Pikmin 2 (2004)

Some credits into the EAD group of Nintendo. Please also note Nintendo Kyoto has 3 other main R&D groups making games inside its central office and we are no including those R&D1 (Metroid, Wario Ware, Wario Land, Kid Icarus, Nintendo Puzzle Collection), R&D2 (Super Mario GBA Ports, Kirby Tilt N Tumble, Sutte Hakun, Marvelous), R&D3/IRD (Punch-Out, Star Tropics), SPD (Pokemon Tetris Shock, Mario Party-e, Momoko Sakurai), etc.

 

[SantaC]

Their old franchises might have gotten a little weaker (especially sales wise), but the power of Zelda still excist. (just check the reaction at E3 2004) So they get my vote. Plus that Pikmin 2 is very polished.

 

[drohne]

assuredly not. aside from the pikmin games, all of their software this generation has been stale and underdeveloped. perhaps this is a function of smaller budgets and shorter development cycles. or perhaps they just need to move away from the same old aging franchises. i don't know if the mario or zelda franchises still have the potential to produce great games -- they've just gotten so predictable and bound by convention.

 

[Speevy]

In my book, absolutely. Although many would argue that there are better publishers than Nintendo, EAD's record is unmatched.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I'm not overly happy with EAD's output this gen, but I'm struggling to think of another developer (who makes a fair number of games, not like Retro or something) who would top them.

 

[Meier]

Always and forever.

 

[snapty00]

NES to Nintendo 64 --> EAD was the most incredible group on the face of the Earth. Not only was EAD leading the industry, but the second- and third-best developers weren't even close to EAD. They were doing things that other developers weren't even dreaming of doing. EAD seemed to have a lot of inspiration and enthusiasm.

EAD's games also had some of the very best graphics. In every generation prior to GameCube, there might've been a couple of console games to look technically better, but nobody really compared to EAD when it came to a perfect balance of programming versus artistic skill.


GameCube --> EAD's games are not only not what they used to be, but most of them aren't even fun. While the controls are still pretty good in these games, they're just boring as shit. They're doing almost nothing new anymore. They're using the same characters, environments, sounds, etc. repeatedly. The gameplay itself has hardly changed, and it's always very predictable. EAD doesn't surprise me, anymore.

EAD's games this generation have also looked like shit. It's not surprising that EAD couldn't always be on top when it came to graphics, but they've just dropped off a cliff here. Part of it may be because Nintendo's system isn't the most powerful, anymore, but other developers are easily getting better results on GameCube on a regular basis. With very few exceptions, EAD's games have been just as mediocre in graphics as they have been in gameplay.

 

[Error Macro]

My memory is rusty. Please give me some examples of what games they've produced this generation, and I'll get back to you.

 

[Dyne]

Considering how many quality games they've outputted, and how much time I've spent with each of those games--yes. I also have reasons to dislike them, but I still believe they're a powerful developer.

 

[SolidSnakex]

They definetly were last generation. This generation they're still good, but they aren't the best anymore imo.

 

[SantaC]

NES to Nintendo 64 --> EAD was the most incredible group on the face of the Earth. Not only was EAD leading the industry, but the second- and third-best developers weren't even close to EAD. They were doing things that other developers weren't even dreaming of doing. EAD seemed to have a lot of inspiration and enthusiasm.

EAD's games also had some of the very best graphics. In every generation prior to GameCube, there might've been a couple of console games to look technically better, but nobody really compared to EAD when it came to a perfect balance of programming versus artistic skill.


GameCube --> EAD's games are not only not what they used to be, but most of them aren't even fun. While the controls are still pretty good in these games, they're just boring as shit. They're doing almost nothing new anymore. They're using the same characters, environments, sounds, etc. repeatedly. The gameplay itself has hardly changed, and it's always very predictable. EAD doesn't surprise me, anymore.

EAD's games this generation have also looked like shit. It's not surprising that EAD couldn't always be on top when it came to graphics, but they've just dropped off a cliff here. Part of it may be because Nintendo's system isn't the most powerful, anymore, but other developers are easily getting better results on GameCube on a regular basis. With very few exceptions, EAD's games have been just as mediocre in graphics as they have been in gameplay.

Pikmin 2 or Zelda WW look anything but shit. Wind Waker has it's own graphical charm. I remember in an interview with Aonuma that this zelda they are making now are easier to create than wind waker. That says something.

 

[Prine]

No

EAD games i've bought this gen:

Pikmin
Zelda WW
Mario Sunshine

Enjoyed

Zelda WW

I loved everything they put out on N64 and SNES

 

[snapty00]

I remember in an interview with Aonuma that this zelda they are making now are easier to create than wind waker. That says something.

It says they wasted their time making Wind Waker look shitty rather than going the easier route and just making it look pretty.

Anyway, I'm not getting into a "nuh uh, you're wrong!" debate about this, so I'll let this be my last post about this probably.

 

[dark10x]

assuredly not. aside from the pikmin games, all of their software this generation has been stale and underdeveloped. perhaps this is a function of smaller budgets and shorter development cycles. or perhaps they just need to move away from the same old aging franchises. i don't know if the mario or zelda franchises still have the potential to produce great games -- they've just gotten so predictable and bound by convention.

Exactly right.

 

[SantaC]

It says they wasted their time making Wind Waker look shitty rather than going the easier route and just making it look pretty.

Anyway, I'm not getting into a "nuh uh, you're wrong!" debate about this, so I'll let this be my last post about this probably.

Hmm ok, I just wanna say that I agree on you that some characters in wind waker could look better, but the enviroment is beautiful.

 

[bionic77]

Nintendo as a company still makes the best games for a single company, but I don't know if EAD is still the best or ever was the best (even within Nintendo). Without Sega around, I would have to say that Nintendo is now the best IMHO, the only company that comes close to Nintendo in terms of quality in a wide variety of genres would probably be EA. Konami has it's moments as well, but they just aren't big enough to be in the same league as EA or Nintendo.

 

[snapty00]

Last post (I swear ):
I did like the Hyrule Castle in Wind Waker, but everything else looked like poo to me.

 

[Socreges]

Read, people:

When it comes to sales and acclaim

In that respect, I guess so. I can't think of any other developer that surpasses them horizontally. EAD has had SMS, WW, MKDD, Pikmin 1/2 which have each sold very well and been critically acclaimed. Though maybe a Konami branch [or something] that I'm not considering has done better.

In my own opinion of their performance, narrowly. Though SMS and WW, specifically, were disappointing in some respects. But still fantastic games overall.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

My opinion is on the Nintendo 64 they were GODS. Star Fox 64, F-Zero X, Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Pokemon Stadium, 1080 Snowboarding, Wave Race 64 (never mind the underground 64DD games and the lame Pokemon Stadium series). But no developer will ever introduce so many ground breaking games in a single generation.

On the GameCube it is easy for me to hate on them because they are not as good. Period. But can anyone name any development studio that comes even close. Most studios only have one quality franchise to their name.

 

[Ranger X]

When you check that list it is indeed the list of a great develloper. Though i still think that the most talented people within Nintendo are Intelligent Systems.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I'm not sure it's true that EAD always used to make the best looking games.

For those who don't agree, who do you think is the best developer now then? It should be one which brings out quite a lot of games if we want an in any way fair comparison, not Bungie for example. See, I don't want to say EAD are the best anymore, but then I think...well who is? Everyone else I come up with have games I don't like too.

 

[Broshnat]

WITHOUT A DOUBT....

THERE IS NO QUESTION !

 

[SantaC]

EAD hardly dissapoint with their games. At worst they are just "ok". They are very consistant even though I really want to see groundbreaking games this generation. EAD has always done something groundbreaking for every generation except for gamecube(if you don't call the graphical look of ww that). I have really high hopes on the new "darker" Zelda.

 

[DopeyFish]

*looks at list*


uhhhh

i know for sure Star Fox was made by Argonaut. Though i dont know anything about the other titles, there's probably more errors there too.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Definitely. I think I've enjoyed every EAD developed game this generation. From Animal Crossing to The Wind Waker to Pikmin 2, I've loved it all. Second for the generation for me...Capcom Production Studio 4 maybe? Devil May Cry, REmake, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe.

 

[SantaC]

*looks at list*


uhhhh

i know for sure Star Fox was made by Argonaut. Though i dont know anything about the other titles, there's probably more errors there too.

The super FX chip was developed by Argonaut. Nintendo made the game themselves.

 

[BobbyRobby]

Super Mario Bros. 3 (1988, 1989)

They are.

 

[DopeyFish]

The super FX chip was developed by Argonaut. Nintendo made the game themselves.

Uhhhhh no. Argonaut did the chip AND the game. It was published by Nintendo.

 

[bionic77]

Intelligent Systems > *

They made Super Metroid and Fire Emblem, nuff said.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

i know for sure Star Fox was made by Argonaut. Though i dont know anything about the other titles, there's probably more errors there too.

Not at all. FX was involved mainly in developing the 3D technology with some Nintendo tech officials being involved as well. When it comes to Star Fox itself, the game was mainly programmed by Argonaut staff (though 4 of the members ended up staying in Kyoto to work for Nintendo), but the game was designed and produced by Nintendo. The characters, artwork, level design, music, all done by Nintendo.

Capcom Production Studio 4 maybe? Devil May Cry, REmake, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe.

Good point. Too bad Production Studio 4's talent wast just cut in half by Clover Studios.

Intelligent Systems > *

They made Super Metroid and Fire Emblem, nuff said.

Super Metroid was designed by R&D1 but programmed by Intelligent Systems. Metroid 1, Metroid 2, Metroid Fusion, Metroid: Zero Mission were entirely done by Nintendo R&D1.

 

[explodet]

Best? I'm not going there.
But they certainly still are very versatile.

According to the above list, in the past three years they've released a cart racer (Double Dash), an RTS (Pikmin 2), an action RPG (Wind Waker), a multiplayer 2D adventure game (Four Swords), a platformer (Sunshine), and whatever kind of game Animal Crossing is.

Of course, they also made a Pokemon database and a multiplayer Pac-Man, which I contend were made over a few weekends by the EAD interns in the basement.

Regardless, they're not the kind of studio that will release the same kind of game over and over again - at least not until a few years have passed.

 

[cvxfreak]

I think EAD is better than a lot of development teams out there, but they're certainly outclassed by folks like Capcom's Production Studio 4.

 

[SantaC]

I think EAD is better than a lot of development teams out there, but they're certainly outclassed by folks like Capcom's Production Studio 4.

Good point. Too bad Production Studio 4's talent wast just cut in half by Clover Studios.

got this from a RE board:

"in the newest GMR, they interview one of the heads of Clover Studios. Now, normally not a big deal, but it mentioned that Shinji helped formed Clover as well, and is a part of it now. This formation came in the middle of RE4, so once its done he will officially be a part of Clover Studios. However RE is a Capcom game, and though they still remain connected to capcom in someway, they are there own entity. I wonder if RE4 will be Shinji's last, or will capcom just bring him back when the next title gets the green light, since it is his baby after all."

Hopefully it wont affect the developement of RE4 qualitywise.

 

[SantaC]

Uhhhhh no. Argonaut did the chip AND the game. It was published by Nintendo.

Not at all. FX was involved mainly in developing the 3D technology with some Nintendo tech officials being involved as well. When it comes to Star Fox itself, the game was mainly programmed by Argonaut staff (though 4 of the members ended up staying in Kyoto to work for Nintendo), but the game was designed and produced by Nintendo. The characters, artwork, level design, music, all done by Nintendo.

So it turns out that both companies worked on starfox.

 

[cvxfreak]

got this from a RE board:

"in the newest GMR, they interview one of the heads of Clover Studios. Now, normally not a big deal, but it mentioned that Shinji helped formed Clover as well, and is a part of it now. This formation came in the middle of RE4, so once its done he will officially be a part of Clover Studios. However RE is a Capcom game, and though they still remain connected to capcom in someway, they are there own entity. I wonder if RE4 will be Shinji's last, or will capcom just bring him back when the next title gets the green light, since it is his baby after all."

Hopefully it wont affect the developement of RE4 qualitywise.

Clover is pretty much a puppet company. IIRC, Capcom closed down a few studios above Production Studio 4 (like PS6 or something) in order to create Clover. More likely, Shinji Mikami will create titles under the Clover brand, rather than the PS4 brand, but his style or efforts won't change.

 

[SantaC]

Clover is pretty much a puppet company. IIRC, Capcom closed down a few studios above Production Studio 4 (like PS6 or something) in order to create Clover. More likely, Shinji Mikami will create titles under the Clover brand, rather than the PS4 brand, but his style or efforts won't change.

GOTY 2005

 

[ToyMachine228]

It won't affect RE4 at all. Resident Evil 4 is Mikami's only real project until it is complete. He is also overseeing Killer 7, but that doesn't take up too much time. I imagine that after RE4 is complete, Mikami will start a title for the next-gen consoles, with Clover.

 

[djtiesto]

I LOVED Nintendo's first party stuff in the NES/SNES days... but ever since the N64, not so much... I am definitely planning on trying the new Zelda though.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I agree, they're not what they used to be, but Zelda is still the most polished game I can think of this gen. Many games have flaws, but the only one I found with Wind Waker was the graphics. The gameplay is still perfect and the graphics and story were good, just not well suited for that game. It was a bad choice that I'm glad Nintendo addressed. I always thought the cel-shaded look would have been much better for a Kid Icarus game, but it looks like they aren't bringing it back. I agree that their graphics have been rather lack luster, but the new Zelda looks to be on track. EAD hasn't had as many great games as they have in the past and the gap between them and other developers is becoming narrower, but that's a good thing. They're still the best, only marginally.

It seems like Nintendo are just trying to be too inventive or innovative. There's nothing wrong with freshness or bringing new ideas into the gameplay, but if they try too hard, they're just gonna burn themselves out, and I think it's starting to show. I think they should take more of their ideas and create a new franchise instead of experimenting on their best ones. Some good examples are Mario, Donkey Kong and Zelda. I think all of the new elements they've put into these games have done more harm than good. I mean, what if they created a totally new character and game that was cel-shaded, the weapon was a water gun and you controlled you're character with bongos? Maybe that's a bad example, but my point is, I think their ideas would have caught on better with a new series.

 

[Xellos]

assuredly not. aside from the pikmin games, all of their software this generation has been stale and underdeveloped. perhaps this is a function of smaller budgets and shorter development cycles. or perhaps they just need to move away from the same old aging franchises. i don't know if the mario or zelda franchises still have the potential to produce great games -- they've just gotten so predictable and bound by convention.

Well put.

 

[Speevy]

It's nearly impossible to name a single developer that has produced as many games, let alone better games.

 

[heidern]

Actually it seems that Mikami may be finished with RE once part 4 is done. Oh, and EAD are still way ahead of anyone.

 

[Brofist]

Most certainly not, not for a generation now maybe more. Who cares about their record, I mean it's good for you back library, but these days they aren't the best.

 

[epmode]

that reminds me, whatever happened to eadninja?

 

[Brofist]

So looking at this gen only

Luigi's Mansion (2001)
Pikmin (2001)
Animal Crossing (2002)
Super Mario Sunshine (2002)
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2002, 2003)
Pokemon Box: Ruby & Sapphire (2003)
Mario Kart: Double Dash (2003)
Pacman VS (2003)
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (2004)
Pikmin 2 (2004)

Those are the games of the best developer in the world? I'm all for nostalgia, and I most certainly can appreciate their games, but to say best now and forever with that list is getting carryed away.

 

[explodet]

that reminds me, whatever happened to eadninja?

Shikamaru Ninja = EAD Ninja

... right?

 

[Code_Link]

Quality and polish wise, their games are still some of the best.

Even if this gen's sequels are not what most people wanted or expected, the studio still produces quality stuff, just compare the control to other games, for crying out loud. The polish that EAD presents in its game is still something that most studios only wish they could have.

 

[drohne]

most publishers have developed new keystone franchises over the years, really out of necessity. as castlevania and contra receded in importance, konami prioritized metal gear and silent hill. capcom went from megaman to street fighter to resident evil and its various offshoots.

nintendo managed to keep the mario and zelda games fresh and relevant for a remarkable span of time. which is certainly commendable. but i think it's sort of stunted their creative growth as well. so mario and zelda hold them up, but also hold them back.

i'd like to see ead develop a mainstream action or adventure game that isn't mario or zelda. but i wouldn't expect it to happen. even the dual screen nintendoo, which is supposed to bear the standard for innovation in gaming, is supported almost entirely by games in established franchises.

i don't know if it's useful to directly compare ead to other development teams. that they're so big and so prolific compared to other teams seems like an arbitrary organizational quirk -- nintendo isn't as subdivided as most other developers. i can think of lots of games that are better than anything ead's done recently.

 

[DSN2K]

last gen they certainly were,

now ? no.

 

[Mama Smurf]

i'd like to see ead develop a mainstream action or adventure game that isn't mario or zelda. but i wouldn't expect it to happen.

I think part of the problem is EAD think: "Why should we make another action/adventure game without Mario or Zelda, we've already got those genres covered." So when they do make a game with original characters, they want to do something different to what they're already doing, like Animal Crossing and Pikmin.

i don't know if it's useful to directly compare ead to other development teams. that they're so big and so prolific compared to other teams seems like an arbitrary organizational quirk -- nintendo isn't as subdivided as most other developers. i can think of lots of games that are better than anything ead's done recently.

Well yeah, individual games. If we're talking about teams, you can't just look at single games. If you were doing that, you'd just throw Pikmin 2 up against everything else and none of the Mario and Zelda problems would count for anything.