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[Pedigree Chum]

Not to mention:

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And of course one game to rule them all...

I wish Blizzard would go back to making console games. R&R Racing and Blackthorne were so badass. I hate RTS's and Dungeon Crawlers, but Blizzard is such a great dev...it just can't be denied, I juist wish they'd make games in genres I like. Ah well

 

[Infinitemadness]

Damn straight they are. Just cuz this gen they didnt produce as many great titles doesnt mean their past games can't retain that title for them. Until they make as many mediocre games as they did great, then you can say they lost their touch. Until then, meh!

 

[Teddman]

Well, if one thing's for certain, it's that the rest of the world is catching up. EAD's game sales and critical acclaim are both on the decline from last generation.

 

[SolidSnakex]

i don't really keep on which studio does what, but i'm sure kcet has been better than ead this gen. mgs 2 and 3, contra: ss and neo contra, zoe 2. gradius v falls under their umbrella as well, even if they didn't develop it. if they did the gba castlevanias, it isn't even close.

MGS and ZOE2 are KCEJ West. The Contra's and Gradius are under KCET. As for the GBA CV's, HoD and AoS are KCET and CoTM was Kobe. I'd agree though, both of them are better than EAD this gen.

 

[ourumov]

No. They have lost a lot of punch this gen. Still the best Nintendo games this gen are from them. (LM/Pikmin)
IMO nothing comes close to the 16/32 bit Konami but that's just me.

MGS
Axelay
SOTN/Chi no Rondo/SCV4
Cybernator
Gradius III/Gaiden
Parodius Saga
Suikoden 1&2
Snatcher/Policenauts

A lot of games...

 

[Socreges]

MGS and ZOE2 are KCEJ West. The Contra's and Gradius are under KCET. As for the GBA CV's, HoD and AoS are KCET and CoTM was Kobe. I'd agree though, both of them are better than EAD this gen.

KCET is the developer that I consider a narrow second behind EAD. AoS, Gradius V, and the WE/PES franchise. I don't think much of ContraSS or the other CVs, but I'm hoping to like Neo Contra.

 

[imastalker co.]

over all, yes. as far as this gen goes though, im gonna give that title to namco as a whole.

 

[drohne]

MGS and ZOE2 are KCEJ West. The Contra's and Gradius are under KCET. As for the GBA CV's, HoD and AoS are KCET and CoTM was Kobe. I'd agree though, both of them are better than EAD this gen.

in tim rogers' e3 report over at insert credit, kojima is quoted as saying that neo contra's being developed in his division. of course tim rogers isn't necessarily reliable, but how separate are kcet and kcej west?

edit: might as well leap back into the fray; i've got nothing better to do.

should the assertion that dedicated nintendo fans are less capable of objectivity than gamers with no such affiliations even be controversial? i know that on gaming message boards accusations of bias are one step short of libel, but take a step back.

nintendo fans, almost uniquely, don't just need to believe that nintendo games are good, but that nintendo is the best developer, that nintendo is the most important developer, and that nintendo is doing The Right Thing. beliefs that big can undoubtedly generate some very strong cognitive dissonance. i say "almost uniquely" because sega fans and square fans can be that way too.

i doubt anyone would take issue with the assertion that a dyed-in-the-sox red sox fan is less objective than a relatively disinterested fan of major league baseball. of course that isn't to say that the red sox fan can't be observant and thoughtful, or that he doesn't have brilliant things to say about baseball. i don't think "open-mindedness" is a particularly high ideal. i know lots of perfectly open-minded people who've never said anything worth listening to in their lives. better to be coruscatingly tendentious.

gaming differs somewhat from spectator sports, of course. but when you're involved with boards like these, the difference shrinks. to like nintendo is very often to take a rooting interest in nintendo.

 

[AniHawk]

It's kinda funny, because I wanted to make a connection to baseball with gaming as well.

I guess I just don't understand why people hate Nintendo fans across the board so much. I've been lumped together with GameFAQs Nintendrones in the minds of others so many times. The most vocal ones are obviously going to be the most annoying. It's true of any company, really. Look at any of the PSP threads or rare threads where Sony is being bashed by MS fans. Sony fans jump right back out there. There are some Sony fans who believe everything you've listed as well (and rightfully so in some aspects- they are the most important first party today, and let's not forget their stellar first party games this gen).

Even in the 2002 World Series I could shrug off the most annoying Giants fan- who for some reason- thought the Angels were actually the Dodgers in disguise*.

I trolled Nintendo for a good 6 months on GameFAQs as a PS2 fanboy (just go to the Next Gen General board and ask about Bingo the Clowno), so I've picked up on when someone is just looking to get a rise out of someone. If you really don't like hearing Nintendo fans being fans I suggest three things: stop visiting those threads, stop provoking an argument, or lighten up. The people who truly hate Nintendo fanboys (and make it a focus of theirs to piss them off at every turn) are worse than the fanboys themselves.

Some of the only times I jump in is when I feel like someone has addressed me with a generalization I did not agree with, a mistake I see, or when I think the other guy is wrong (whether partially or completely), and they're being a complete jackass about it. I'm going to die, and I don't need to waste the rest of my life on even more trivial bullshit than I already do.

*=I'm a big, big, big Angels fan

 

[SolidSnakex]

in tim rogers' e3 report over at insert credit, kojima is quoted as saying that neo contra's being developed in his division. of course tim rogers isn't necessarily reliable, but how separate are kcet and kcej west

It'd basically be like Sonic Team is to AM2. They're under the same company but they're 2 completely different development studios.

 

[Kiriku]

If I understand the question correctly, you're asking if they are the best developers right now, not 10 or 5 years ago.

No, they aren't. But I still enjoyed Wind Waker a lot, best GC game IMO.

And if we were to count all the games they've done in the past...I don't know. I'm not sure I understand the point with this thread though.

 

[Socreges]

nintendo fans, almost uniquely, don't just need to believe that nintendo games are good, but that nintendo is the best developer, that nintendo is the most important developer, and that nintendo is doing The Right Thing. beliefs that big can undoubtedly generate some very strong cognitive dissonance. i say "almost uniquely" because sega fans and square fans can be that way too.

Just one question.

Why is it with you:

Nintendo fans ARE
Sega/Square fans CAN BE

I'm not arguing that Nintendo fans aren't more partial than, for instance, Square fans overall. Just that I can't understand why you've devoted a large part of your life complaining relentlessly and trying to explain the deeper context of Nintendo fans when there doesn't seem to be as large a discrepancy between fanbases as you so insist.

 

[drohne]

because some groups are more homogenous than others? this is getting really silly.

 

[Socreges]

because some groups are more homogenous than others?

Prevalent, sure. Homogenous? Not enough that would explain your fixation.

this is getting really silly.

As if it hasn't always been?

 

[gofreak]

based on this gen alone: no

based on their overall history: yes

 

[drohne]

i wasn't explaining my "fixation." i was explaining why i said "are" for nintendo fans and "can be" for other fans.

but let's delve. let's get to the root of the fixation. i'd love to hear your theories. as silly as a thread may be, it can always get sillier.

look, if it suits you to believe that nintendo fans raise my blood pressure and keep me up nights, then you run with that belief. but don't expect me to humor you.

 

[Socreges]

i wasn't explaining my "fixation." i was explaining why i said "are" for nintendo fans and "can be" for other fans.

No, I know.

but let's delve. let's get to the root of the fixation. i'd love to hear your theories. as silly as a thread may be, it can always get sillier.

look, if it suits you to believe that nintendo fans raise my blood pressure and keep me up nights, then you run with that belief. but don't expect me to humor you.

No theories. Just the fact that you do this so often. If not a fixation, then a passtime? ...alright.

 

[drohne]

socreges, if all nintendo fans were passive-aggressive bores like you, i can assure you that i wouldn't find them remotely fascinating.

how many times is this that you've complained about my complaining about nintendo fans? at least three or four. that i can remember. sounds like a fixation, dude! and tonight, socreges, i'm just bored enough to indulge you. was it all that you hoped for?

 

[AniHawk]

.

 

[drohne]

anihawk, before you pontificate yourself ragged, you might want to isolate something i've said in this thread that rises to the level of "hate" or even provocation. christ, and people are telling me to lighten up.

and i still can't get over that last socreges post. look at that loaded "...alright." jesus. that's a master class in passive aggression. are you sure you aren't someone's mother, socreges? people with y chromosomes don't behave that way.

edit: you know, if you keep editing your posts out from under me, this thread is going to end up completely unreadable. won't someone please think of the readers.

 

[nitewulf]

coruscatingly tendentious.

thats hot. i am horny and in love with drohne. you are a hot chic who can also solve partial differential equations mentally, right?

 

[Red Dolphin]

I wish Blizzard would go back to making console games. R&R Racing and Blackthorne were so badass. I hate RTS's and Dungeon Crawlers, but Blizzard is such a great dev...it just can't be denied, I juist wish they'd make games in genres I like. Ah well

IAWTP

As for the topic at hand... certainly not this generation but NES -> N64 most definately.

 

[Socreges]

I like how this has gone. Until next time, drohne.

 

[drohne]

you are a hot chic who can also solve partial differential equations mentally, right?

yes.

Spoiler

except for the part about the differential equations. oh, and the hot chick part. but otherwise:

i'd say that's an accurate characterization.

 

[AniHawk]

edit: you know, if you keep editing your posts out from under me, this thread is going to end up completely unreadable. won't someone please think of the readers.

PINEAPPLES!!

 

[drohne]

I like how this has gone.

call it vanity, but...somehow i don't believe you. :lol

 

[Ar_]

I want to show my apprecciation for the brave lone warrior, fighting for the good cause straight into enemy camp.

+1 Drohne

The day will come, that no more Nintendrones shall walk this world. At long last, true civilization! A new age for humanity!


AnyHawk, the PINEAPPLE is indeed strong in you, seeing how fast you edited out most of the "pineapple!" post itself!

...

Of which I happen to have a saved copy =O


*whistle*


Now, let's hear how good Jak II is. Nothing less that Amazingly Outstanding, don't you agree?

 

[AniHawk]

AnyHawk, the PINEAPPLE is indeed strong in you, seeing how fast you edited out most of the "pineapple!" post itself!

It's actually quite amazing. I edited the message a good 15 minutes after I posted it, and it never showed up with that little bit of text running underneath it. I edited the same message three times in that timespan, and nothing happened.

And Jak II is indeed a great game. Surely one for the ages. Truly one of the best of this gen- nay-! Of All-time!

EDIT: It's 5 minutes after I posted. WHY isn't the little bit of edit text stuff underneath this post?

 

[Ar_]

Maybe the board software roots for Nintendo. THEY are everywhere!

Glad to see the love for Jak II

 

[Baron Aloha]

IMO:

Luigi's Mansion (2001) - Easily one of the most fun (and underrated) games this gen. The only problem was that it was short. Otherwise I thought it was flawless. I wish they'd make a sequel.

Pikmin (2001) - I didn't like this one. I just couldn't get into it.

Animal Crossing (2002) - I'm not much of a graphics whore but c'mon... N64 graphics? The game plays great but the graphics do bring the overall package down IMO.

Super Mario Sunshine (2002) - Not as good as Mario 64. Again, the graphics should have been better especially since it was a Mario game.

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2002, 2003) - Great game. No complaints.

Pokemon Box: Ruby & Sapphire (2003) - Doesn't really count.

Mario Kart: Double Dash (2003) - The best game in the series as far as I'm concerned. I had tons of fun with this one in both single and multi-player.

Pacman VS (2003) - I haven't tried it but from what I hear its actually pretty fun.

The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (2004) - A nice new take on the Zelda franchise. I enjoyed this one a lot in both single and multi-player.

Pikmin 2 (2004) - I haven't played this one yet but I am considering buying it in a few weeks at TRU since its supposed to be a monumental improvement over the first.


Are they still the best dev? No. But they are still in the top 5.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Yeah, EAD is the best dev this generation. The number of quality titles they have released this generation is very impressive. It should be interesting to see what Nintendo's new Tokyo studio does next, Jungle Beat already looks amazing.

 

[Prine]

nintendo fans, almost uniquely, don't just need to believe that nintendo games are good, but that nintendo is the best developer, that nintendo is the most important developer, and that nintendo is doing The Right Thing. beliefs that big can undoubtedly generate some very strong cognitive dissonance. i say "almost uniquely" because sega fans and square fans can be that way too.
.

yep, thats the vibe im gettin too

 

[jarrod]

EAD's fallen a long way from their N64 high points. While Pikmin 2 might be extremely playable and Mario Sunshine has moments of greatness, nothing they've done this generation can really compare to what they managed last generation. This gen they can barely manage to make the standard, last gen they were the standard. It's not quite as tragic as Sonic Team or AM2's massive dropoffs, but it feels comparable to me.

On the other hand, I'd hardly push KCET or KCEJ as a good replacement for top dev this generation. Picking on EAD for Animal Crossing is hardly fair when you turn a blind eye to Goemon NeoAge or those Yu-Gi-Oh RPGs.

 

[jarrod]

New question: is EAD better than Treasure? Drohne?

 

[SantaC]

contra: ss

Wow that game was a big letdown compared the past contras. Konami is worse these days imo.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

*=I'm a big, big, big Angels fan

Good team.

And how about that VLAD? Is he the MVP or what?(My main man Tejada has his own ideas)



Oh, uh...yeah, EAD...urr...I guess they still make games better than any other developer.

Still, it wouldn't hurt them to do another action title that isn't Mario or Zelda related.

Or at least another good Mario.

 

[Brofist]

IMO:

Luigi's Mansion (2001) - Easily one of the most fun (and underrated) games this gen. The only problem was that it was short. Otherwise I thought it was flawless. I wish they'd make a sequel.

Pikmin (2001) - I didn't like this one. I just couldn't get into it.

Animal Crossing (2002) - I'm not much of a graphics whore but c'mon... N64 graphics? The game plays great but the graphics do bring the overall package down IMO.

Super Mario Sunshine (2002) - Not as good as Mario 64. Again, the graphics should have been better especially since it was a Mario game.

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2002, 2003) - Great game. No complaints.

Pokemon Box: Ruby & Sapphire (2003) - Doesn't really count.

Mario Kart: Double Dash (2003) - The best game in the series as far as I'm concerned. I had tons of fun with this one in both single and multi-player.

Pacman VS (2003) - I haven't tried it but from what I hear its actually pretty fun.

The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (2004) - A nice new take on the Zelda franchise. I enjoyed this one a lot in both single and multi-player.

Pikmin 2 (2004) - I haven't played this one yet but I am considering buying it in a few weeks at TRU since its supposed to be a monumental improvement over the first.


Are they still the best dev? No. But they are still in the top 5.

Wow an interesting and insightful post, refreshing compared to the "EAD iz da best now, alwayz, an forevar!!!111" posts with no basis.

 

[Alcibiades]

so Pikmin 2 is simply "extremely playable"

LMAO.

Mario Sunshine IS Greatness.

You spend minutes or hours just messing around with Mario movents in a particular environment and each time you can discover more and more the brilliance of the subtle design that makes the movement/gameplay/control in that game better than just about any action game this gen.

You don't have to win in every categorty (graphics, level design, sound, music, etc...) to be what you would call "a standard". Mario Sunshine, for all that people can rag on about accessibility and the insane challenges, is "a standard". Even Mario 64 never achieved some of the free-form smoothness that comes from interaction with platforms, gates, climbing, jumping, etc...

Miyamoto said he designed Mario 64 to feel like a virtual "theme parK'. It may have had the atmosphere and colors as well as freedom to achieve that to a certain level, but Mario Sunshine took the gameplay aspect of that to a new level.

Even the GTA's of the world have been labeled buggy messes, but that doesn't change the fact that they have been accepted as having set standards in gameplay (totally separate from the violence issue).

 

[SantaC]

Maybe they have slipped a little because they don't have Yamauchi's whip on them anymore

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Wow an interesting and insightful post, refreshing compared to the "EAD iz da best now, alwayz, an forevar!!!111" posts with no basis.

Kpop; you head into every Nintendo thread and troll. I don't think you own a cube so why are you even in this thread? You need to have played the games before you can diss the company. If you played Pikmin 2; their latest game to see if they still have the stuff to do great games; you'd see that EAD >>> than a lot of the other co out there. Its that good. better than a lot of stuff I've played all year (and its now October)

I actually agree with some of Drohne's points (regarding them doing new stuff) but this entire thread is about opinion so I didn't see the point of some spurious defensive post to prove a point point ( my origninal post is YES; which incidentally drew no comments ) Why debate this? Why defend it? Its a Nintendo thread. Pour yourself a cup of hatorade. You have your homebrew, no?

 

[ge-man]

I don't want to say they are the best, because at the end of the day taste is the defining factor. I can argue until I'm blue in the face with someone like drohne, and we will never get anywhere. This is pretty much how this thread and others end--a battle between fanboys and haters.

The only thing I can say with confidence is that EAD has been amazingly consistent and varied for the time it has existed. They have put out so so games, but I can't think of a game they have made that could be considered pure trash (though I'm sure someone will quote me and make their list). At the same, few developers can claim to achieve some of the same creative heights. It's not surprising that the GC is seen as lackluster effort despite being a huge improvement over the N64 in a number of areas; even with it's piss poor 3rd party support and handicapped hardware the N64 still shines because of the software, and the majority of the software came from EAD themselves.

I'll end by saying that I feel like they are turning a corner now. Pikmin 2 is not only their best game this gen; I think that it stands up against their best on the N64. When they are given the time, they can achieve almost anything. Hopefully NCL has finally understood this and revised their strategy. No one is capable of pumping out classics on a limited schedule, EAD included.

 

[Razoric]

Glad to see the Blizzard love in this thread.

Blizzard > EAD hands down.

I've put more time into Blizzard games than every other game (sans Ultima Online) combined.

Didn't EAD make Luigi's Manson? lol

 

[SantaC]

Glad to see the Blizzard love in this thread.

Blizzard > EAD hands down.

I've put more time into Blizzard games than every other game (sans Ultima Online) combined.

Didn't EAD make Luigi's Manson? lol

The only compliant I have with LM is that it's too short.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Glad to see the Blizzard love in this thread.

Blizzard > EAD hands down.

I've put more time into Blizzard games than every other game (sans Ultima Online) combined.

Didn't EAD make Luigi's Manson? lol

love how you factor: time = greatness

the games are diffent. LOL indeed. Blizzard ain't that great - what else can they make (other than real time RTGs and mouse clicking crud). WArcraft + starcraft's + diablo allure is largely in playing online and online games can last infinitely longer. Non of Blizzard's titles have a story that makes the gameplay involving. I couldn't be bothered finishing all of the above.

EAD has a more diversive portfolio than Blizzard.

and

they develop on different platform. I'll like to see Blizzard contend in a console environment. For that matter CONSOLE > PC. That's why you only ever read about the console wars; because that's where the mindshare is.

 

[Razoric]

love how you factor: time = greatness

the games are diffent. LOL indeed. Blizzard ain't that great - what else can they make (other than real time RTGs and mouse clicking crud). WArcraft + starcraft's + diablo allure is largely in playing online and online games can last infinitely longer. Non of Blizzard's titles have a story that makes the gameplay involving. I couldn't be bothered finishing all of the above.

EAD has a more diversive portfolio than Blizzard.

and

they develop on different platform. I'll like to see Blizzard contend in a console environment. For that matter CONSOLE > PC. That's why you only ever read about the console wars; because that's where the mindshare is.

Uh time spent playing is a factor when you talk about how good a game is. The truly great games are the ones that can be played over and over. Don't blame Blizzard because their games are online. Blame EAD for not making any games online. (Animal Crossing? Mario Kart? Come on.)

And Warcraft 3/TFT + Diablo 2 have better stories than any EAD game.

 

[AeroGod]

Non of Blizzard's titles have a story that makes the gameplay involving..

Thats funny you mention that, I could say the same thing about EAD. Not to troll, but a story has never been the strong point(or any point in soime cases) for their games and you could even get die hard Nintendo fans to admit that. Its always been about the gameplay and style, not that its a bad thing or wrong, its actually very important. Im just saying is all. The mythos and lore of Warcraft is more interesting then anything EAD has ever done.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Uh time spent playing is a factor when you talk about how good a game is. The truly great games are the ones that can be played over and over. Don't blame Blizzard because their games are online. Blame EAD for not making any games online. (Animal Crossing? Mario Kart? Come on.)

And Warcraft 3/TFT + Diablo 2 have better stories than any EAD game.

well then. we should just make pipe bombs and raze Capcom/Namco/Square/insert name because the majority of their titles aren't online. *cough* try again. BLAME yourself for being a fucktard.

 

[Razoric]

well then. we should just make pipe bombs and raze Capcom/Namco/Square/insert name because the majority of their titles aren't online. *cough* try again. BLAME yourself for being a fucktard.

Haha aww did I hurt your feelings. Calm down...

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Thats funny you mention that, I could say the same thing about EAD. Not to troll, but a story has never been the strong point(or any point in soime cases) for their games and you could even get die hard Nintendo fans to admit that. Its always been about the gameplay and style, not that its a bad thing or wrong, its actually very important. Im just saying is all.

IAW that bit.

OOT, MM and WW says you're wrong about story though. OOT is not the best game of all time for no good reason. The story was just epic/right.

I do think that this has more to do with the type of story they're trying to tell - I found the most involving Warcraft - III; to be tiresome at best ; the cinemas do NOTHING to hide the fact that you're ultimately playing warcraft II with better graphics). By the time Arthur became unhead. I unistalled the game. Bleh.

Pikmin 2 is one of those titles that has a pretty ordinary story transformed by stellar gameplay elements - so you're right about that.

 

[jarrod]

And Warcraft 3/TFT + Diablo 2 have better stories than any EAD game.

Better than Majora's Mask? Really?