ISIS declares creation of new "Islamic Caliphate"
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ambientmystic
Member
Probably the only silver lining to this crisis (if any). They've been wanting a state to officially call their own for a long time now, and they deserve it after all that they've endured under Saddam.
Good for them.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
He and his entourage were able to show up at the largest mosque in Iraq's second largest city (reportedly in a bigass convoy) and hold a sermon and prayers then leave. I doubt he's too troubled about that right now.
The iraqi region anyway. Maybe the syrian portion too depending on how the situation there pans out.
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
Stephen Walt has a surprisingly naive view of US foreign policy
Moon of Alabama unpacks the droppings...
Walt's view is more than defective, it's insidiously so. The policy has always been destabilization. It's not a mistake. It's Empire 101. The inability of liberals to call a spade a spade on this, while simultaneously clutching pearls over a violent alien religiosity, allows us to launder the apparatus and its intentions. It's a wholesale decontextualization of how we got here.
Moon of Alabama unpacks the droppings...
Walt's view is more than defective, it's insidiously so. The policy has always been destabilization. It's not a mistake. It's Empire 101. The inability of liberals to call a spade a spade on this, while simultaneously clutching pearls over a violent alien religiosity, allows us to launder the apparatus and its intentions. It's a wholesale decontextualization of how we got here.
One man can't build and sustain a nation. He seems to be pretty influential to ISIS... taking him out wouldn't eliminate the ISIS threat, but would slow it down considerably.
But if the US doesn't do it (and I don't think we'll try with the current Iraq political situation), I doubt anyone else will.
But if the US doesn't do it (and I don't think we'll try with the current Iraq political situation), I doubt anyone else will.
dripdripsplash
Member
CHEEZMO;119632130 said:
Ohh.. The Caliph of the Muslim world!
Nice beard.
OT: I have this impression that he is some freaking phantom the way that articles say that he was always covered when meeting with other syrian rebel commanders and such.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Azs4XVn7s
ISIS fighters shooting down Iraqi warplanes, helicopters, and destroying Iraqi tanks.
ISIS fighters shooting down Iraqi warplanes, helicopters, and destroying Iraqi tanks.
Phat Michael
Banned
what weapons are they using to take down the planes?
Who trained these guys to use these weapons - are ISIS all ex military or something?
Who the hell films these things, creates a youtube account and uploads them??
Those are all good questions.
Same questions I've been asking since ISIS popped up.
Phat Michael
Banned
like i honestly thought it was just a ragtag bunch of crazed extremists. they can use rocket launchers, SAMs, take down planes, repair weapons/equipment, fly planes, drive tanks etc?
No wonder they are moving through this damn region so quickly..i didnt realise they were all trained for this.
No wonder they are moving through this damn region so quickly..i didnt realise they were all trained for this.
RustyNails
Member
Most of the reports said they were ex battle hardened insurgents that fought the US Army in Iraq. But yeah, that is some professional, high tech shit.
Phat Michael
Banned
how did they film through that thing which had the thermal vision..or is that just the camera? what was amazing to me was how accurate those shots to the planes were. It doesnt strike me as something easy to do - hitting planes from the ground.
Probably Soviet built launchers, likely extracted from Syria. Recently they've captured a whole bunch of US sourced Iraqi equipment, so it is possible they have captured newer anti-air launchers.
I'm fairly sure it is a little in table A, a little in table B. There are those with former military experience, e.g. ex Iraqi Army, as well as many foreign fighters trained in Syria or Western Iraq. The main thing to take away from this is that the training is professional, these guys are no amateurs.
ISIS has their own social media presence on Twitter, Youtube and Liveleak. I'm not even joking. I think one dude said that social media was half of their campaign in the Middle East.
They are a very dangerous group, and it is no surprise that the poorly trained, corrupt Iraqi army is not able to hold them back without support. Whatever work Patreaus did in the North seems to have been lost. Most of the blame falls on the current government; the Iraqi army seems to be full of weekend soldiers looking for a paycheck; not intending or expecting to fight a war. This is partially the reason why their morale is low, along with the level of corruption and incompetence in their officer corps.
A number of guys with experience in Iraqi and intelligence operations are in this informative thread on another website. It's an interesting read and quite informative for those who don't know too much about the situation on the ground.
Phat Michael
Banned
Thanks for the response. This is very interesting.
So what we have here is a trained and we'll equipped army, who aren't handcuffed by their government? Fantastic...
I can't see that as a bad thing. Would be good for the southern regions too. Iraq is such a bastard construct anyway, this would get it one step closer to rational borders and at least something like a stable example to follow. That said, Kurds aren't as intermingled geographically as the Sunnis and Shiites.
Oh I don't know about that; they are still spread over Syria and parts of Turkey and Iran. However, thanks to their own level of autonomy, their region is vastly more stable than the Southern areas.
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Did you guys see this?
Ambush of Iraqi Army convoy, multiple vehicles destroyed and captured, soldiers fled on foot from ISIS.
Yeah, they had some remaining functioning armored vehicles and they fled on foot.
Tells you all you need to know. The Iraqi army needs some serious help and it is likely to get it from Iran. I doubt the US advisors or even airstrikes will be able to do anything either, and boots on the ground is madness either way.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
if so kill them all.
SHAFT MASTER
Banned
^Saw this tonight, ISIS announced their five year plan:
Image with translated names:
This is quite disturbing
That is a pretty picture and all, but it's a fake
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
That's what surprises me.
I mean the Saddam's loyal & well trained army didn't drop one U.S. plane/helicopter during the invasion.
How the hell are these guys doing it?
Better equipment?
dripdripsplash
Member
http://www.aljazeera.com/video/midd...baghdad-within-weeks-2014716225354899669.html'
Video interview at the link.
Video interview at the link.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
The 2003 invasion was like 6 weeks from start to finish, the coalition had completely overwhelming firepower, technological superiority and good intelligence about the defenders. Well planned, well executed. Even if the whole Iraqi army had fought to their last breath they still would have been rolled like the Brazilian soccer team.
Indeed. One of the first things that was done was destruction of command and control, radar installations, anti-air and airfields, to prevent any air defense and ensure domination. Then ground invasion with unchallenged air support makes it easy by comparison.
In the current situation none of that initial anti-air work was done, so Iraq can and is using it's air force which means losses are being incurred.
This was reported a few days ago. It's the 9th division in Khalidiyah. Someone from the Anbar command center or the commander of the 9th division thought riding on the leeve was a brilliant idea. Being the 9th division also means that they are probably Maliki's idiots.Oh I don't know about that; they are still spread over Syria and parts of Turkey and Iran. However, thanks to their own level of autonomy, their region is vastly more stable than the Southern areas.
------
Did you guys see this?
Ambush of Iraqi Army convoy, multiple vehicles destroyed and captured, soldiers fled on foot from ISIS.
Yeah, they had some remaining functioning armored vehicles and they fled on foot.
Tells you all you need to know. The Iraqi army needs some serious help and it is likely to get it from Iran. I doubt the US advisors or even airstrikes will be able to do anything either, and boots on the ground is madness either way.
Getting help (training, experience, air support) from Iran is fine much like Iraq is already receiving help from Russia. If the support helps in killing Daesh it's all good. The problem is that the support needs to be under Iraqi control, the last thing they need are foreign controlled groups on Iraqi soil which Iran could easily take advantage of. US being useless in the current situation has been a blessing in disguise since the idiots in the Iraqi govt. woke up and realized they have to look elsewhere (Russia, China) to get their planes. Hopefully this also means Iraq can strike better contracts in the future with those two and with West European countries for more modern hardware.
"It's air force". Iraq's air force barely exists, even if you'd supply them with enough military aircraft most of them don't have the necessary practice to control them. The ones flying Iranian aircraft (ironic considering it's originally from Iraq's military) are likely Iranian pilots and those flying the ones supplied by Russia are likely mercenaries. I'd bet a few of them are actually Iraqi pilots.
One of those is said to be funding them.
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Iraq
Russia
USA
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Don't know if anyone has been watching the Islamic State series on VICE (https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-1) but their journalist travels with IS' press officer, a young, charismatic guy who said in one episode that ISIS was going to fly its flag over the White House.
Apparently he just got blown up in Syria.
Apparently he just got blown up in Syria.
All of these guys has it coming for them.
Almost the whole world agrees that their warped minds has no place here. It even connects states that usually has a 'hostile' stance towards each other.
They won't come far.
More interesting is what will come afterwards.
not anymore he won't
About the video of their leader:
The guy don't look very charismatic
The perfect Dark
Banned
Watched all five parts
1. Wow this is very interesting.
2. Wow, this makes me fuckin' angry
Really, I'd like to say something but I have no words.
SniperHunter
Banned
Oh I don't know about that; they are still spread over Syria and parts of Turkey and Iran. However, thanks to their own level of autonomy, their region is vastly more stable than the Southern areas.
------
Did you guys see this?
Ambush of Iraqi Army convoy, multiple vehicles destroyed and captured, soldiers fled on foot from ISIS.
Yeah, they had some remaining functioning armored vehicles and they fled on foot.
Tells you all you need to know. The Iraqi army needs some serious help and it is likely to get it from Iran. I doubt the US advisors or even airstrikes will be able to do anything either, and boots on the ground is madness either way.
that's the state of the art American tank right? M1 Abram? The Iraqi army seems completely incompetent and useless. One tank is worth millions of dollars...
ambientmystic
Member
Thanks for the link to the VICE series. It's very informative and a great look into the psyche of the people involved with their operations.
The most frightening part of it all is that their mainline fighters truly and without reservation believe in what they're doing, and they've brought their kids into it for conditioning (see Episode 2, those kids are really pumped up). They are not swayed by riches, women, or any material possessions of this world. Death to them is just another gateway for greater rewards.
This is not a battle that the West can win with the typical shock and awe and indiscriminate bombing campaigns; this will be won on the ground, with hearts and minds in cooperation with the local authorities. For quite a number of the the local civilians (especially in Raqqa, the IS powerbase) really seem to believe that their lives are improving with the IS around as compared to the previous status quo with their despotic regimes/divisive and sectarian leaders.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
You're pretty much wrong on all accounts.
ISIS is the main opposition to the Syrian government, they are actually open for US air support with terms of military cooperation. USA gives many shits, they don't want to see a terrorist group literally take hold of multiple countries and install their values. It's kinda why we are fighting them via the air right now. If people had the stomach we would have boots on the ground, but that's not an option.
Wow. Source? Who killed him, the Iraqi army?
LOL well it's stuck in the mud now
SniperHunter
Banned
these tanks are extremely maneuverable, it can manage to get itself out of there with a good driver
I wouldn't doubt it. The funny part is...well funny and tragic. We just threw so much money at the problem, and left people without training and will to fight, so we can't be surprised.
my lol is mainly out of frustration and cynicism.
dripdripsplash
Member
Reports that IS has taken over major airport giving it full strategic control over the whole Raqqa area.
Syria government now also talking about accepting air strikes by Western powers inside Syria, only if they are in cooperation though.
Syria government now also talking about accepting air strikes by Western powers inside Syria, only if they are in cooperation though.
ambientmystic
Member
The IS seems to have rather competant tank operators within their ranks.
speculawyer
Member
I don't think anyone really cares whether they give their permission or not.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Aasad's people got him in fighting. Google it.
dripdripsplash
Member
True. But it is a groundbreaking change in Syrian government policy with regards to the western world and a possibility of outside intervention.
They were strictly against it a couple of years ago, say under the chemical attack crisis.
Well, back then the government was supposed to be the target of an aerial attack.
SniperHunter
Banned
I guess it isn't that hard to drive a tank...
I think the Americans just gave up later on. They were taking too many casualties and these ISIS guys were getting more and more brutal. Plus, you have shitty Iraqi commanders, terrorists within the ranks, it was all a disaster.
WayneMorse
Banned
I have to say, this group has essentially made al_Qaeda yesterday's news. They are well funded, well organized, and maintain an incredibly good social media propaganda campaign.
For a lot of young radical Muslims especially in western Europe who have been marginalized and discriminated against since 9/11, the idea of a tangible Islamic caliphate can prove to be very attractive. ISIS has managed to accomplish what al_Qaeda never could, that is actual long term results instead of just random terrorist attacks.
For a lot of young radical Muslims especially in western Europe who have been marginalized and discriminated against since 9/11, the idea of a tangible Islamic caliphate can prove to be very attractive. ISIS has managed to accomplish what al_Qaeda never could, that is actual long term results instead of just random terrorist attacks.
What? I hope you are not saying ISIS is a reason U.S left Iraq, because it wouldn't be true. To be honest U.S only left Iraq due to non agreement with Iraq government. U.S would still be there now, very likely had that not fell through. Though I will say it is a blessing in disguise.
ISIS isn't incompetent, they are able to drive armored vehicles as many of them are ex-military anyways, though they are fighting incompetent military.
eh, I would say it was mainly timing that allowed ISIS to get so big. Not sure I would call it long term results since they haven't truly been contested yet. They are fighting countries that are in disarray, Syria has many rebel groups for one and Iraq's government is incredibly incompetent.
Overall I am glad it is looking like U.S will step up bombing campaigns on them in Iraq and Syria.
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