Islamic State fighters burn 19 Yazidi girls for refusing to have sex with them
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Triggerhappytel
Member
There shouldn't be this much evil in the world. Fuck these ISIS bastards. I hope there really is a hell and they burn in damnation for all eternity. If I had the powers of Superman or Dr. Manhattan the first thing I would do is go over there and wipe these fuckers out from existence.
It's not anywhere close to the same level. But there are a lot of Christians around the world who do things that would make Jesus spin in his grave if he hadn't risen from it. They hide behind their religion too.
Strange thing is they usually don't have a problem raping women. Maybe this group have a different opinion on the matter?
Mr. Giggles
Member
*sigh
I don't want to derail the thread so I'll just throw this out and stop here...during Ramadan you're supposed to show compassion and avoid conflict, even IF killing of an enemy were permitted it would need to be during the act of combat.
This is not war, this is not jihad, this is not combat. This is cold blooded murder.
If anything the yazidi girls were better Muslims for not folding. If these guys were actually following the religion they should know that pre-marital sex is absolutely verboten especially in the holiest month for Muslims.
Chuckie
Member
You know what, you go preach all of this about this to the fundamentalists who actually believe what I wrote down.
Because it is not me who is coming up with it. Maybe you can use your condescending "sigh" with the leaders of IS and Al Qaeda too when you tell them they are no true Scotsmen.
Mr. Giggles
Member
I do already and will continue to do so.
So you rather take a terrorist view point then what mass majority of muslims preech? Just because Bin Laden thought that there is a 6th pillar to Islam, doesnt make it at all, a fact or even have any tangible support it. Its like me turning around saying I believe in the Quran but I also believe there are many Prophets after Muhammad. Its a pure contradictory of the fundamentals of faith.
Do you also understand the basic concept of what Jihad really is? or do you just believe Jihad is a "war" methodology within Islam?
Do you also believe ISIS are muslims too? The people who killed many muslims, who ordered someone to kill their mother in order to join ISIS, killing of many women because they are nothing but horny perverts, and that lists goes on. All that is due to a religious motivation? Hardly. They are using religion as an excuse to exercise their twisted desires. Point to me in the Quran or Hadith that its ok to burn a bunch of people if they restrain from having sex with you? Pre marital sex is forbidden in many religions including Islam, yet, ISIS are doing the opposite, and then imposing their own laws. This is no different people who believe its in the Shariah that women cant drive, when in fact is the monarchy law of Saudi Arabia.
Im genuinely amazed how gullible people are when it comes to ISIS. It goes to show they have succeeded not only drawing in gullable muslims to join their mass murdering scheme, but also convinced the non muslims that they are muslim and believe the sick acts are in tangent with Islam, regardless of how loosely it is connected.
Chuckie
Member
So in what way do they not care about the religion? Because that is your initial statement.
They seem to care a lot about it. It seems they have a wrong perverted shit intepretation of it, but they do have it.
So yeah, like always in every IS thread, a No True Scotsman fallacy.
aaand this is exactly what I mean. Every single IS thread there is at least one.
Yes I believe IS are muslims. I also believe the Westborough Church are Christians. I also think Crusaders were Christians.
Fundamentalist who have a sick view on Islam and follow different rules are still muslims. I know normal muslims do not want to be associated with filth like this and I actually do not associate normal muslims with fundamentalist muslims. But saying these fundamentalists are not muslims is a No True Scotsman Fallacy. And it is getting really tiring.
What nonsense. Adding your own rulings to a religion that is already has set rulings and going against them doesnt make you one of their faith, simply because you going against what a religion that has been established and perfected by the Prophet (speaking of Islam).
Quran states:
“…if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind…” - The Holy Quran (Chapter Five, Verse 32).
Its clear how serious killing an individual in Islam is taken, so much it denounces your faith which has been stated by many scholars who have used Quran, Fiqh, Seerah and Hadith to validate these points. Its sheer hypocrisy that goes against the basic laws of Islam, so what constitutes you, a randomer, who have very little understanding of Islam, to say they are muslim when in fact mass majority of muslims who ACTUALLY practice the faith have denounced ISIS (and all the terrorists) as muslims based on facts based on multitude of Islamic books and literature including Quran.
| Praxis |
Banned
Fucking scum.
A recent video of theirs showed them executing a guy with a big rock. Probably the worst thing I have seen in quite some time. These people are truly unbelievable.
A recent video of theirs showed them executing a guy with a big rock. Probably the worst thing I have seen in quite some time. These people are truly unbelievable.
QuantumZebra
Member
These women died heroes.
I wanted to make some sort of "Fuck ISIS" reply but it just seems hollow at this point.
I truly hope that these horrific things they are doing cause normal citizens to rise up against them and cast down the terrorist ideals they are pushing.
Yea... it's a shame Islam is getting thrown under the bus here. What we are witnessing are savages using people's ignorance of Islam to control populations (while also using global ignorance of Islam to further strikes against them, thus perpetuating their perceived martyrdom).
Chuckie
Member
Then I really wonder what you think about Shia vs Sunni vs Ahmaddiyah. They all have different intepretations of Islam. So do the Saudi wahhabi.
So please do tell me sir. Who of those are Muslims and who are not? And who gets to decide this? Apparently you. But I am glad that according to that verse there are no Muslims that kill.
Like I said. This is the clearest form of No True Scotsman Fallacy I have ever seen in my life.
| Praxis |
Banned
A lot of the normal Sunni citizens in the areas they hold are fully supportive of them.
kurisu2001
Banned
Have you ever read their PDF magazine Dabiq, they have an actual religious excuse for almost everything they do, including rape and destroying ancient structures.
Thinking their motivations are not at all religious is disingenuous.
http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2016/04/how-religious-are-isis-fighters-lebovich
Yazidis are not Muslim. It's a big reason why ISIS prefers using them as sex slaves versus the Muslim population, though Muslims get used as sex slaves as well.
And yes the Yazidis are routinely raped, typically dozens of times a year. This was a spectacle to keep the other sex slaves and the general population in line.
The Incarnation
Member
Malawi. Not South Africa.
Killing any human is cruel, regardless of how you do it or where it happens. How many youths have been shot in Chicago alone this year?
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
How you do it definitely factors in. I would take a bullet over getting burned in a cage. One is certainly more cruel than the other.
paragonpro
Banned
I hope these mother fuckers rot in the deepest darkest prison. Death would be too merciful for these monsters. Fucking animals.
Ahmaddiyah - Belief in a Prophet after Muhammad - Contradictory to Quran.
Shia- A divide in an opinion between the rightful successor.
Sunni - Orthodox muslims, but also, can be divided further if need be, into Brewislm, suffism, ahlus Sunni, and so forth.
Wahabism - Interpretation of Ibn Abd-Al-Wahhab, his take on what the Quran meant.
But your point still fails, because regardless of what sect you are trying to highlight, they all follow Quran, which highlights clearly about killing quote i stated. Its not about me to determine who is muslim and who isnt, because as I rightfully stated, if its been denounced by global scholars, then what puts you in a better position then a scholar? Theres even books like from people like Shiekh Al Yaqoubi, titled "denouncing ISIS". You want to bring all forms of killing into it like the killings between Sunni and Shiah, by all means, but i will simply quote what I have quoted above, and any orthodox muslim would tell you the same.
The Artisan
Member
Horrible, those girls are brave to do what they did, just need to bomb those savages into vapor. Infuriating news.
Kind of confirmed it there. Making up their own shit that nobody follows but them. Like a a meat eater calling themselves Vegetarian because he/she likes vegetables.
Kind of confirmed it there. Making up their own shit that nobody follows but them. Like a a meat eater calling themselves Vegetarian because he/she likes vegetables.
The Incarnation
Member
The result is often still the same. You die. You can focus on the barbaric nature all you want. But the intent to harm and kill is what it is. And just because it happens in a place you can't point out on a map doesn't make it anymore special, and doesn't make you superior.
That is how religious denominations tend to start
Different methods of killing require different amounts of mental effort to perform because the brain treats them differently. Killing someone with a gun is more abstracted than bashing their head in with a rock so it's easier for people to do. You're right in that they're both cruel but the methods someone is willing and able to use to kill does say something about them.
Ok since you believe Isis are not Muslim and asking for Hadith or Quran support.
Booty of war as slaves girl including having concumbines is allowed in Islam
"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; "
Quran 33:15
Many more Quran verse about sex slaves but you can google yourself
Hadiths
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Interruptus Coitus - Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born."
Sahih Muslim 8:3371
"Abu Said al-Khudri said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse: And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period."
Abu Dawud 2:2150
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interrupt us?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.
Sahih Bukhari 3:34:432
There are many many more I am sure you can google it
John Dunbar
correct about everything
i never really understood why some people find the suggestion that religion motivates bad behaviour so outrageous.
when 1.5 billion people believe that a how-to guide dictated by a 7th century warlord is the word of god, there are going to be some unpleasant consequences.
when 1.5 billion people believe that a how-to guide dictated by a 7th century warlord is the word of god, there are going to be some unpleasant consequences.
Fuck the Daesh. They need to be wiped off from the face of the earth.
It is,
Chuckie
Member
Yet Ahmaddiyah consider themselves muslims. However you here decide that they are not.
Also according to your reasoning a Muslim can NEVER kill (because that verse you quoted), so if one does he is no Muslim. That is convenient.
Yet apostasy is punishable by death in some islamic countries. How does that work?
So apparently killing (by state) is acceptable in some versions of Islam.
Well guess what...IS is a state and they have their own fucked up version of Islam. And in THEIR version it is acceptable to kill the enemy. And the Yazidi are enemies.
They are convinced they live according to the Quran, just not your interpretation of it.
Saying ISIS aren't muslims is ridiculous. Saying they are bad muslims who wrongly interpret the Quran is correct.
This is really the last I have to say about it. Nobody (well almost nobody) would say that Protestants aren't Christians because they have different interpretations than Catholics. I see no reason why Fundamentalists who have a strange perverted version of Islam suddenly aren't muslims anymore. And like beast786 said... they have a religious reason for all the shit they do.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Yes. If only it was so simple.
It's not just a specific list of bad guys. It's a movement. An ideology.
You have to kill the movement without creating more followers and resentment.
You have to win the battle of ideas and values.
Wrongly interpret the Qur'an is also ridiculous. That's the problem. Arguing theology is not going to get You anywhere.
The conversation we need to have is one of values. Secular values vs religious text derived ones.
We know what Quran says when wife refuses sex
Sahih International: Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand. Quran 4:34. The actual story Hadith of habiba when that verse was revealed is even more awesome... You can google that
You do realize difference between slave and free
“A blind man had a freed concubine (Umm walad) who used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and say bad things about him. He told her not to do that but she did not stop, and he rebuked her but she did not heed him. One night, when she started to say bad things about the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and insult him, he took a short sword or dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it and killed her. A child fell between her legs, and became covered by blood. The following morning that was mentioned to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). He called the people together and said, “I ask by Allah the man who has done this action and I order him by my right over him that he should stand up.” The blind man stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allah, I am the one who did it; she used to insult you and say bad things about you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not give up her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was kind to me. Last night she began to insult you and say bad things about you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.” Thereupon the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Bear witness, there is no blood money due for her.”
(Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Abi Dawood 4361).
Let me guess, the code 1.5 billion follow is inherently rotten, and so are all possible timebombs, you chose the term war lord for a reason. Nice simple summary of people of varied backgrounds, ethics and environments.
As were speaking of fallacies, nice slipery slope.
I am Indonesian too, but am currently in America. Most of my relatives there are Christian, abd even of my Muslim brothers I hadn't heard of ISIS sympathizers. That's insane, which part are you living in?
It apparently doesn't highlight clearly enough, as evidenced by the fucked up passages quoted in this thread.
When you elevate a holy book that includes good things and bad things, you will always inevitably have splinter groups that focus on the bad.
It's up to the people who focus on the good to figure out a way to stop the latter, not to pretend they're not seeds from the same tree.
Kenshin001
Member
I believe 5:32 addresses the Jews, not Muslims.
It then goes on to say in 5:33 the enemies of Islam will be crucified. Who is crucifying people in this day and age? Saudi Arabia threatens it, IS does it.
They denounce IS but support the death penalty for apostasy or homosexuality. A lot of the views of the public in countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan etc. are not that far removed from IS when it comes to executing people for moral crimes.
If you want go off topic and start debating other topics like apostasy and whats considered lawful, then start a new topic because this topic is about ISIS.
I wont start a new topic, but just to shut you up about about Ahmaddiyah:
Ahmaddiyah (Qadiyanis) believe in another Prophet after Muhammad. Well if they want to believe some person from Punjab who has convinced theirs another Prophet after Muhammad, then go for it, thats not my business, because it is contradictory Quran which states:
"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 33:40)"
I highlighted that is contradictory to the Quran, which it is. Thats a fact. You want to debate that too? Open another topic. We can be here all day debating sects of Islam.
Also, I never said muslims can NEVER kill, i just disregarded your point about bringing up the verses sect because you were planning to highlight some stupid killing about sunni and shiah sects, and disregarding ISIS.
Yazid are there enemies? You telling me ISIS has never killed a Sunni muslim, a Shiah muslim, and so forth? They have, which brings me back to my formal point from the Quran, they are NOT muslim, and i have proven that using QURAN. They are LONG GONE from Islam, and its absolutely hilarious that its non muslims that are trying to school muslims who are educated enough and convince us that they are muslims. If you are so convinced, go and debate this to a scholar, because believe me,you will get your ass handed to you.
As I said earlier, ISIS have succeeded in convincing non muslims that they are muslims and they use religion to exercise their twisted mess, and you are a prime example of their puppetry.
You carry on believing your ideology that ISIS are muslims, I rather take advice from people who actually studied Islam, and have plentiful resource and knowledge of Islam then a random forumer. Good day.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Cracked (yes, that Cracked) recently did an article on Yazidi women who escaped from sex slavery. Check it out if you want to learn some more about this...
http://www.cracked.com/feature/we-were-slaves-isis-7-things-you-should-know/
http://www.cracked.com/feature/we-were-slaves-isis-7-things-you-should-know/
Serious question, would admitting that some fault lies within problematic portions of the religion itself be heresy?
If so, this isn't a debate, because you are convinced you can never be wrong due to a supernatural doctrine that you cannot question. Nothing anyone ever brings up will ever change your mind or cause you to question your point of view, because more is at stake than losing an argument.
Demoskinos
Member
God damn it man. Thats a horrible way to go. 
Stereogatari
Banned
Tbh I can't blame them entirely. You live oppressed under Shia Hegemonies, these are uneducated poor religious people. They unfortunately are left to cling to these batshits and see them as protectors. But we must point out that there's no hard figures and most are probably against them and have to put up with them or die trying to resist.
Amory
Member
This is really interesting, but god is it still a cracked article. Could they have stopped being so "internet" for 20 minutes?
Dragon1893
Member
Why is this world so fucked up?
I have no words for this.
I have no words for this.
I can be wrong, and I am far from perfect as person, yet alone a muslim.
I also think that people have no clue about a religion that has taken scholars after scholars after god knows how many generations of scholars to truly get the most meaning of the Quran, and this is solidified with further fiqh, seerah, hadiths, and fatwas, many of which would not even have a clue what 1 of them are. There are multitude of books just on the meaning of a single surah, yet we get people here plucking quranic quotes because they can use that special something called "google", and use this to try and sway a topic their way without truly knowing the in depth meaning of it. If I read the Quran, doesnt make me a muslim. If I read a book about heart surgery, doesnt make me a heart surgeon. If i attempted to open a heart clinic, id end up killing people, irrespective of knowing a heart surgery book back to front. Same way with the Quran, if I take everything literally without knowing the context and motivation behind it, I will be causing more harm then good.
Im not going to pretend killing doesn't happen in countries like Pakistan, Saudi etc for being homosexual and of another faith. I bet many people dont even know that irrespective of all the killings of homosexuals and leaving faiths, people fail to realise how popular Pakistan has become and how socially acceptable it has become to be of a different faith. There are many churches in Lahore, amongst many other parts of Pakistan, as a typical example.
There are alot of laws and quotes from Islam that do not fit in this day and age, but is still enforced in these countries, i certainly wont deny that, but that is not my responsibility to turn around and rewrite the laws for these countries that still live in the stone ag. They certainly need to "modernise" their acts, much like the west.
I have been practising Islam for over 15 years, yet I still am continually learning more about my faith, so rest assured, it becomes a laughable debate when people who use google think they can school people on an Islamic debate. There is a fair number of muslim gaffers on here who dont get involved with these topics because its a joke to say the least.
I have already provided my view points about this and ISIS, and if any one thinks they are confident enough to denounce what scholars have been saying since 911 about these scum bags of terrorists, then rather then hiding behind a forum nameless, come forward and actually debate with a scholar. Because this hasnt happened since 9/11, people have made their own comfort approach to what Islam is, for the better or worse. Check out Mehdi Hassan, who is a Shia, school many people on this very matter.
I wont bother replying anymore, but thats my two cents.
Jag
Member
ISIS are made up of twisted, insane, cold blooded murderers, so you expect them to do horrible things. Hearing that normal people can actually support them is chilling and totally incomprehensible.
Pretty much. These are the types of people who would do bad things anyway. Having a large group of like-minded people to associate with just gives them more opportunities with no repercussions.
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