Manmademan
Member
Probably used to watching anime where girls that look like that are thousand year old dragons, they don't know
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J.J Abrams: "Rey's parents are not...[Possible Spoilers]"
- Thread starter SomewhatGroovy
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Probably used to watching anime where girls that look like that are thousand year old dragons, they don't know
ryutaro's mama
Member
TBF, Thanos wasn't in TFA so he technically still could be.
Manmademan
Member
uh...force ghosts are pretty much useless outside of communicating with other force users. There weren't any on Jakku.
the falcon had been there for years, and hadn't flown in a long time. the thing was a wreck. had a better ship not been blown up, they would have headed straight to the resistance base which probably would have been a better outcome all things considered.
They have zero influence over non-force users?
I see nothing here backing up this claim, it just says force ghosts can use force powers:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_ghost
And Disney isn't beholden strictly to the Star Wars EU right? There's nothing in the films that says force spirits have zero influence over non-force users..
ryutaro's mama
Member
Obi wan out there, Jedi mind tricking from the grave, confirmed.
Kenobi: "Unkarr, Rey requires extra payment portions today...she didn't eat well yesterday."
Unkarr: "K"
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I should have said "and maybe" instead of "or maybe," apologies. Made it look like I was trying to rebut you instead of further supporting you.
Could be much more subtle; influencing peopel to essentially leave her be.
It doesn't make much sense that this young girl just lives on her own on this planet. She's left to tinker with things, she has flown ships. she's clearly spent time tinkering with the Millenium Falcon which conveniently exists on this planet for her to tinker with and eventually escape on, etc. And she feels some strong pull to stay on this planet; all she has keeping her there is some vague memory of her parents.. which doesn't make a lot of sense, unless some sort of... force.. is influencing her.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
UnemployedVillain
Member
People really wanted Rey to be a Skywalker? That would have been embarrassingly bad. There's nothing more that I hate then generational stories where every character seems to be related or named after some famous friend their parents knew at some point in life. As if a whole universe of characters is completely irrelevant aside from this one lineage. Unless that's the point of the story (ie. Jojo's Bizarre Adventures) I rather new characters not be connected to old ones. I don't need Rey to be Luke's child. I don't need Finn to be Lando's child.
ryutaro's mama
Member
You realize, that abandoned/ orphaned children live on their own, right here on Earth and forge a living for themselves, right?
Without the help of weird Force ghosts influencing people or whatever on their behalf.
iPaul93
Member
I agree.I think she should be Luke's daughter.
Ah yes the ninja orphans of Earth's deserts who live in downed starships.. I had forgot about them, this totally destroys my theory about Star Wars.
So what is your theory? I searched the thread and can only find a string of contrarian replies.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Naw, just the orphans that live in war torn/impoverished areas which isn't that far fetched from our SW squatter that is Rey.
Having some ghost look out for her diminshes Rey being a strong, resourceful and independent character. It means she wasn't capable of surviving on her own.
She needed a Jedi ghost or whatever.
Well she's also a strong force power holder; it's not like Anakin learned to pod race "completely on his own."
Do you have an actual theory?
She's just some random with a bunch of coincidences that have nothing to do with "the force"? In a fictional universe where the force "Flows through everything" this super strong force sensitive girl just randomly lived on her own and ended up with a droid containing Luke's whereabouts and the millenium falcon to lead to her escape and eventually meeting up with Han Solo?
Just a bunch of coincidence? She then coindidntally ends up with Luke's lightsaber in her hands and has a vision containing Obi-Wan?
I don't think Ghost spirit Ben helping her in ways completely takes away from her personal strength any more than being born with magical powers already does.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Something to make you seem like less of an ass next time is alot of creators even with some of the most famous stories were usually winging it for most of it, infact, usually they have a beginning and maybe know the end, but dont know what they are gonna write to get to it.
Ah gotcha.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
ryutaro's mama
Member
Sorry, riotous I missed your ghost edit earlier.
My theory was discussed a long while ago. Basically, I like the Palpatine theory. Sheev being the person he was (evil, power obsessed, etc.) fathered a child he was unaware of. Male or female, doesn't matter. They are neither Sith or Jedi. That child grew up, Force dormant and years after Palpatine's death, had a child with their mate. That child was Rey. Rey showed Force sensitivity from an early age. The force skipped a generation. They could have even approached Luke about training her and he, sensing her lineage, declines, for fear of what she could become.
During the purge of Luke's academy, Rey's parents, fearful of what this could eventually mean for their own child, ran with Rey, trying to hide her Force potential from the FO/Snoke. For whatever reason, they set down on Jakku (emergency for parts, who knows) and here is where they are tracked and found. Out of desperation, they leave Jakku, promising Rey they will return for her. They never do. They are ultimately caught and killed.
Rey then, believing they would one day return, waited in vain for them to return.
The events of TFA play out.
At the end, when Luke is standing there, looking at a Rey with her outstretched hand, he knows that she is the granddaughter of the man that destroyed his family. The man that turned his father. The man that tried twice to destroy the galaxy with super weapons.
His grand daughter, who he once refused to train, now stands before him, completely oblivious of her history but the only hope the Galaxy has against a fallen Skywalker. The roles have flipped and it more than explains Luke's tearful reaction at the movie's close.
It's a quick summation of my theory (or rather one I would like to see play out).
ryutaro's mama: Thanks! Interesting read; I'll search other threads if I feel like delving further.
I guess I just think there's more to Rey's existence and persistence on Jakku then the "waiting for her parents" concept. She seems smarter than that; it isn't really logical to stay there waiting so long seeminly making no attempt to research her parent's fate, and it feels to me like there is a greater power holding her back on Jakku. If her parents are so important to her, why is "waiting" the only thing she is doing to be put in contact with them? She is smart, resourceful, powerful, can fly ships.. yet she waits on this planet for years and years doing nothing to find her parents?
Whatever her lineage is, I get the feeling a greater power is at play with her life and all the coincidences that lead her to the light saber. My theories about Jakku and Obi-Wan (which really Bobby sparked my thinking on after you rightfully argued against some of my Luke/Snoke theories) don't really contradict your theories about Palpatine. But if you are right about her lineage I think it was Obi-Wan, not Luke, who told her parents not to have her Jedi trained. Luke was busy training Jedi-kids and making some of the same mistakes the Jedi had made before him when Rey was left on Jakku wasn't he?
edit: And yes editing posts is a bad habit I have lol; I don't blame you for not seeing my first question about your theory.
I guess I just think there's more to Rey's existence and persistence on Jakku then the "waiting for her parents" concept. She seems smarter than that; it isn't really logical to stay there waiting so long seeminly making no attempt to research her parent's fate, and it feels to me like there is a greater power holding her back on Jakku. If her parents are so important to her, why is "waiting" the only thing she is doing to be put in contact with them? She is smart, resourceful, powerful, can fly ships.. yet she waits on this planet for years and years doing nothing to find her parents?
Whatever her lineage is, I get the feeling a greater power is at play with her life and all the coincidences that lead her to the light saber. My theories about Jakku and Obi-Wan (which really Bobby sparked my thinking on after you rightfully argued against some of my Luke/Snoke theories) don't really contradict your theories about Palpatine. But if you are right about her lineage I think it was Obi-Wan, not Luke, who told her parents not to have her Jedi trained. Luke was busy training Jedi-kids and making some of the same mistakes the Jedi had made before him when Rey was left on Jakku wasn't he?
edit: And yes editing posts is a bad habit I have lol; I don't blame you for not seeing my first question about your theory.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
These stories are supposed to be about the Skywalkers. All the chaptered Star Wars films will always be about them and their family drama. Of course she COULD be a Skywalker, it would only make sense in the context of this being a soap opera, focused on one family (as Kathleen Kennedy herself has said). People getting upset that she could be a Skywalker because it's makes that family too important...well, that's how stories work. It's a moment in time and this family just so happens to be extremely powerful and always having an effect on the universe. That's literally the story. Her being anything but someone who is somehow related to the Skywalkers (Palpatine/Snoke creation, Kenobi's kid) or a Skywalker her self IS part of the story. Watch the spin-offs if you're tired of this family and get over it. 10-12 will be related to the Skywalkers as well if they're made and so on and so forth.
Manmademan
Member
VII-IX will still be a Skywalker story because at the center of all of it is the story of Kylo Ren's betrayal, struggle, and (presumably) redemption. Everything revolves around that series of events. It's more important to the narrative than what Finn does, what Poe does, or what Rey does. Without Kylo there is no story to be told here.
That doesn't prevent OTHER protagonists from having an impact. Han Solo was not a skywalker in the OT. Kenobi was not a skywalker in the prequels. Yoda wasn't a skywalker and the droids weren't even carbon based lifeforms. All of them were crucial to the narrative.
it's still possible to have protagonists that are important to the narrative and overall story without having them all be related to Luke Skywalker somewhere. The only reason I'm on board with Rey being a kenobi (or related to an already established jedi family) is that its been determined that she's an unusually strong force user- stronger than a (somewhat trained) Kylo which shouldn't be happening for someone completely random.
I'm gonna guess it goes something like this:
Rey is Luke's daughter. Early on, Luke sensed that she could become extremely powerful at using the Force. Fearing what might happen if she turned to the dark side, he thought it best to hide her.
He'll try to keep the secret in the movie, but it'll eventually come out. The rage she will feel at being abandoned by him will end up being what tempts her to the dark side.
Or not. *shrug* Another avenue I could see them going down is just making Rey's parents literal nobodies whose identities will never be revealed. The overarching theme will still be family, but just that family can extend beyond blood relation or some sappy teaching like that.
Rey is Luke's daughter. Early on, Luke sensed that she could become extremely powerful at using the Force. Fearing what might happen if she turned to the dark side, he thought it best to hide her.
He'll try to keep the secret in the movie, but it'll eventually come out. The rage she will feel at being abandoned by him will end up being what tempts her to the dark side.
Or not. *shrug* Another avenue I could see them going down is just making Rey's parents literal nobodies whose identities will never be revealed. The overarching theme will still be family, but just that family can extend beyond blood relation or some sappy teaching like that.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
Oh no, I agree with you now. You're right. My point being, there will always, always be a Skywalker in the story and they will always impact the story more than any other character. These chapters are going to always be about them. That was directed at the people complaining about their influence on the universe or why there always has to be one in these stories. It doesn't make any sense. You're watching the wrong film if you don't like how it makes the universe smaller. It doesn't, it's just their story. What makes the universe smaller is shoehorning Jabba the Hutt and Chewbacca into the prequels. There's a difference.
Manmademan
Member
no argument there. young greedo showing up in episode 1 was particularly groanworthy.
the problem here (timeline aside- again Rey was abandoned long before the massacre) is that Luke was actively rounding force sensitives up and training them at the time. Why would luke take a "random children can train with me in a specialized academy, but Rey? We're going to abandon her on a desert planet with scavengers and smugglers. nothing but the best for MY kid" approach?
You have to consider that Rey's situation wasn't any kind of "hiding" for safety. It was actively dangerous and it was more likely she would have been killed or enslaved than not.
True, true. I guess the only way it would make sense is to make Rey so incredibly powerful with the Force that training her is too dangerous. Not for herself, but the galaxy if she fell to the dark side.
Kinda like that now-classic BvS line, if there's even a 1% chance she falls to the dark side, Luke has to take it as an absolute certainty.
ryutaro's mama
Member
NP. Like I said, it's not so much a theory as it is something I would like to see play out.
She was likely traumatized by her parents and loves them. She doesn't want to not be on Jakku when they return because, she is still mentally tied to the emotions she had as a child.
Lots of smart people are trapped by limited thinking. It isn't until she meets Maz that she even entertains the idea of moving on from reuniting with her family.
One thing I noticed that was odd in the TFA is Maz asking Han, "Who's the girl?", and then immediately the scene changes and leaves the conversation. The way it was done made me believe that Han knew her origins and they were discussing it off screen. Not sure exactly what that means though. Immediately after that, all the wierd shit with the Lightsaber and Maz happens. And, of course,
so he wouldn't be around to tell her anymore.
Han dies at the end
Manmademan
Member
I took that to mean that Maz had a reason to be especially interested in her- Maz is force sensitive (though not a jedi) and likely sensed the girl was a powerful jedi or soon would be.
Han didn't really seem to know anything useful about her- he wasn't really all that concerned when she was taken captive (neither was anyone else) and staging a rescue was "Finn's idea." If she were someone significant like skywalker's daughter they would have definitely put some effort into getting her back from the First Order for obvious reasons.
He actually has it wrong. Obiwan when he was still a padawan was sent with Qui Gon to Mandalore to help end a civil war threatening the young Duchess who had become leader. The Duchess and Obiwan hit it off with all that entails. Then He and Qui Gon left. The Duchess knowing Obi Wans commitment to the Jedi lets him leave without trying to get him to stay. He admits years later that yeah if she had asked he would have left the order but at that point he was basically a teenager in love.
There is obviously a degree of feelings all the years later but they clearly are not in any sort of relationship.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Excellent point.
kame-sennin
Member
Manmademan
Member
Did you see the other link where it explicitly says obi wan was in a relationship?
that one was called off eventually, but getting involved with women even for brief periods is apparently something that Obi Wan has done and would probably do again.
His voice is in the flashback
thecouncil
Banned
i was being facetious, but it is basically the internet's general opinion of that man so i get the reaction.
Elfforkusu
Member
It's gotta be Luke or Leia though. Only the Skywalkers are so OP
brandonh83
Banned
IMO, Obi-Wan and Yoda have dialogue in that flash-scene not because of Rey specifically but because ever since Qui-Gon died and figured out how to spiritually connect himself to the Force or whatever, which is what ultimately leads to Kenobi doing the same thing and guiding Luke once he's killed, that Luke, Kenobi, Yoda, etc. all communicate with one another through the Force, as originally discovered and initiated by Qui-Gon. With all the prequel haters it's really no wonder why few actually think about this, but Qui-Gon's death is actually the key to everything going forward once you apply the prequels to the originals.
Obi-Wan "knowing" Rey can then be connected to some past events we don't have all the details of yet, same for Yoda. Which I think is why I'm fully under the impression that when Luke was training his first round of students, that Kenobi and Yoda were helping him train them through the Force, not unlike Qui-Gon "retraining" Kenobi and Yoda about the Force when they were in exile between 3 and 4 or when Kenobi communicates to Luke during the Death Star attack. I think Rey was one of Luke's students and for reasons unknown to us, was left on Jakku after or before Ren's attack. Kenobi "knows" Rey through the Force.
Whether you're on this side or not, prequel hater or not, Lucas intended for the prequels to show us how the Jedi were flawed and how Palpatine was able to topple them; this is through arrogance, ego, ridiculous rules, etc. which all applied directly to Anakin and why he turned against them and went dark side. Qui-Gon was always a sort of rebellious character against the order and the Jedi that, when people saw The Phantom Menace, felt that was closest to the Jedi that they envisioned the entire Jedi order to be, and to me this is completely purposeful.
Therefore with all this taken into account, you have Qui-Gon who after death learned more of the true nature of the Force, brought that to Kenobi and Yoda between 3 and 4 which explains why they're far more "spiritual" with the Force and not so by the books, and so maybe they're all communicating and acting as teachers with Luke as Luke is trying to bring up this new group of Jedi-- and Rey was originally one of them before something bad happened and, maybe or maybe not, Luke or someone else close (Max Von Sydow?) left Rey on Jakku.
It would also explain Rey's connection to the Force, maybe she was super gifted even at a young age, and that "look" between she and Luke has so much meaning because he recognizes who she is, she's older, and she has, somehow, his lightsaber.
Obi-Wan "knowing" Rey can then be connected to some past events we don't have all the details of yet, same for Yoda. Which I think is why I'm fully under the impression that when Luke was training his first round of students, that Kenobi and Yoda were helping him train them through the Force, not unlike Qui-Gon "retraining" Kenobi and Yoda about the Force when they were in exile between 3 and 4 or when Kenobi communicates to Luke during the Death Star attack. I think Rey was one of Luke's students and for reasons unknown to us, was left on Jakku after or before Ren's attack. Kenobi "knows" Rey through the Force.
Whether you're on this side or not, prequel hater or not, Lucas intended for the prequels to show us how the Jedi were flawed and how Palpatine was able to topple them; this is through arrogance, ego, ridiculous rules, etc. which all applied directly to Anakin and why he turned against them and went dark side. Qui-Gon was always a sort of rebellious character against the order and the Jedi that, when people saw The Phantom Menace, felt that was closest to the Jedi that they envisioned the entire Jedi order to be, and to me this is completely purposeful.
Therefore with all this taken into account, you have Qui-Gon who after death learned more of the true nature of the Force, brought that to Kenobi and Yoda between 3 and 4 which explains why they're far more "spiritual" with the Force and not so by the books, and so maybe they're all communicating and acting as teachers with Luke as Luke is trying to bring up this new group of Jedi-- and Rey was originally one of them before something bad happened and, maybe or maybe not, Luke or someone else close (Max Von Sydow?) left Rey on Jakku.
It would also explain Rey's connection to the Force, maybe she was super gifted even at a young age, and that "look" between she and Luke has so much meaning because he recognizes who she is, she's older, and she has, somehow, his lightsaber.
brandonh83
Banned
Also very plausible. Snoke knows of the Skywalker lineage and how much of a fuckup they can be, so targets them. I don't think Rey is Luke's daughter, but she could be a blood relative somehow, but that's why I think that she was just simply a very talented student at a young age under Luke's tutelage before the Ren attack, and then dropped off on a nowhere planet just as Luke was dropped off on a nowhere planet until the time was right.
I really think that look between Luke and Rey at the end of Episode VII was this look of Luke seeing himself in her, young and ready to fulfill her destiny just as he was at her age.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yoda isn't talking to anybody. Neither is Luke, or Palpatine. They're echoes of the past, like much of the vision is. The history of that saber coming to life in her mind. Obi-Wan Kenobi is the only person in that vision who speaks directly to Rey. Twice.
Trust me, I've had people trying to fling shit at me on twitter all day when I dared to actually mention something about it earlier. I know aaaaalllll about the counter-arguments. Keep in mind, I was one of the first people to actually float the theory she was Luke's, too. When I laid it out on a Full of Sith episode, the primary assumption was that she was Han's kid.
Ah, the pre-release days.
Anyway, the whole point of bringing that up isn't so much to suggest a Kenobi connection (although it can do that) but to suggest that in the middle of an unprecedented vision so far as these films go (there's never been anything like that in any of these movies) why is it that the 30-years-dead old man from the first movie is the one directly contacting Rey in the middle of this vision, and not her presumed father, who is supposedly is doing nothing but communing with the force on top of a giant rock?
So not only does the timeline not really line up, it doesn't make much storytelling sense, either.
t-storm
Member
Weren't they both welling up with tears though? It was such a heavy, emotionally filled, drawn out stare that it had to be much more than that.
brandonh83
Banned
No. Rey had some "holy shit it's Luke fucking Skywalker" eyes, but there was no tearing up or anything between either of them.
neurosisxeno
Member
I think it was more of "I've sacrificed so much to find you, help us and by the way wtf is happening with me helpohgodineedafatherfigure" look.
brandonh83
Banned
That's also part of it I'd imagine.
Rey is Palpatine reincarnated.
Rey is Darth Plagueis reincarnated.
Rey is Qui-Gon reincarnated.
Rey is the daughter of Leia and Caluan Ematt.
Rey is the daughter of Han and Sana Starros.
Rey is the daughter of Jar Jar Binks and Julia.
Rey is the daughter of Ezra Bridger and the Seventh Sister.
Rey is Snoke.
Rey is Darth Plagueis reincarnated.
Rey is Qui-Gon reincarnated.
Rey is the daughter of Leia and Caluan Ematt.
Rey is the daughter of Han and Sana Starros.
Rey is the daughter of Jar Jar Binks and Julia.
Rey is the daughter of Ezra Bridger and the Seventh Sister.
Rey is Snoke.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
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