Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
I'd argue that you don't understand story if you don't realize that having every important character be related shrinks the narrative universe and is shitty writing...
J.J Abrams: "Rey's parents are not...[Possible Spoilers]"
- Thread starter SomewhatGroovy
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I'd argue that you don't understand story if you don't realize that having every important character be related shrinks the narrative universe and is shitty writing...
brandonh83
Banned
To be fair, while I don't disagree with the notion, the Star Wars episodes are about a strict set of individuals, and seeing as the story is about them, it does make sense for things to relate to them in some ways. I don't think every way is necessary, like how Anakin built 3PO, but I don't think it's inherently a problem as long as it doesn't go overboard (which the prequels kinda did here and there).
I look at Star Wars as this sort of "governed by fate and space magic" story where there are coincidences, repeats of situations, etc. I think this is where people get "TFA is too much like ANH" from as it deliberately mirrors certain situations, but I don't think it's a lazy copy or something like that. Like how we meet Luke on a desert planet, we meet Rey on a desert planet. The difference is that while this is basically the same thing, it plays out differently and there's much different details to it.
So I do think it's okay for Star Wars to have parallels, and that's all I see TFA as: a parallel of ANH, not a copy, and certainly not completely. I've seen people call it a "literal remake" and that's factually incorrect; it doesn't even need to be explained or defended. They have very different climaxes, for example (Death Star attack, saber duel in a snowy forest) and the differences don't end there. But you see something similar: X-Wings flying into a villainous station to blow up a death ray. I think that's just the nature of something called Star Wars, but perhaps that's just me.
brandonh83
Banned
Uhm, well, the thing about this is that he was 100% correct.
That was merely a vision created by Yoda.
Forsaken82
Member
Except for me!
Forsaken82
Member
Not just "until S6"
Everything that took place on the island, took place while they were alive... even the S6 stuff... So the only relevance is that the showrunners made the inverse true... Once S6 dropped, it was the real world that served as a purgatory setting.
brandonh83
Banned
They were dead when... they were dead, the "flash forwards" in the last season were of the characters in the afterlife during an unknown amount of time after they had all already passed away, whether naturally or otherwise, and the island was never a purgatory.
But a lot of people think this, as not everything was clearly spelled out. Not even about to get into a Lost debate, but that is simply not how it was. Not you, I mean, you seem to know that
Empyrean Heaven
Member
They have to do the "I am your father" call back from Luke to Rey. They have to.
I think "lovers" might be a bit strong for Obi's and Satine's relationship
brandonh83
Banned
Maybe, it's been a bit since I've watched that.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
....
That was the entire point of Star Wars.
He was emulating the old serial films of his youth.
Like, he's gone on record saying this dozens of times. He's never hidden his many inspirations for Star Wars.
They were in love and had some sort of romantic relationship pre-TPM, but during the Clone Wars they never got to fully rekindle their relationship. Obi-Wan told Satine he would have left the Order if she asked him to do so.
Perhaps it's just me but I have always thought of "lovers" as people who are in a committed, long term relationship.
Gnome Scat
Member
I think Obi just got lonely on Tatooine for those ~20 years, had a relationship, sent her away for her own safety, but happened to be pregnant with his child. The child grew up not knowing he/she was force sensitive, but Snoke sensed his/her presence and began tracking him/her down. The Obi-child then had Rey, and then was located by the First Order, which led to them hiding Rey on Jakku for her own safety. Maybe Obi-child wasn't even aware he/she was force sensitive. That's my theory anyways.
Still doesn't explain how Rey was Empire Luke strong with the force from the get go, however.
Still doesn't explain how Rey was Empire Luke strong with the force from the get go, however.
aygomyownroad
Member
I await his glorious return
After Maz made a big deal about how Rey's family is not coming back and how the longing she seeks is ahead, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Luke would be her dad. I guess you can technically make that work - because Luke wasn't going to come back for her, so she would have to seek him out - but I don't think that was what they were going for.
Luke could "adopt" her as family, but I don't think she is blood-related to anybody we know.
Luke could "adopt" her as family, but I don't think she is blood-related to anybody we know.
blast processed
Member
Luke isn't her father, just like the cast of Lost wasn't dead either.
Makes sense for Disney too, basis of a new younger Kenobi movie/trilogy, ez $$$.
Escape Goat
Member
Maybe Obi-Wan had a secret freezer in his hut and preserved his progeny in there.
It makes people feel apprehensive about retreading familiar ground or falling into the cycle oftry. Thing is, you can still do quite a bit within that framework. How powerful is she really? Why did Luke or someone else hide her on Jakku? Does Snoke know about her (edit - meant does he know about her being a Skywalker)? And so on...
My personal theory is that it's going to be a "Rey wasn't just in danger, Rey was the danger" kind of situation. Not that she'll go to the dark side, but these movies are about internal conflicts more than anything else. Kylo cemented himself as the absolute villain. Finn made his choice to be a good guy. Rey? She doesn't know where the hell she belongs yet.
Basically, who Rey's parents are is one of the less interesting mysteries about her. It's related to the other mysteries, but there's much more beneath that setup.
I also think that this trilogy will end in a way that moves on from the Skywalkers and really opens the later episodic films to other families, characters, etc.
Rey was pretty well established to be a truly good person. She had the chance to trade BB8 in for all that food but didnt. Rey knows who she is. She just doesnt know where she belongs yet.
Nathan_Drake
Member
Jedi are not supposed to marry and or have kids. The legacy is not jedi through lineage. Being a force user is not hereditary it does not seem. Vader having kids was a one off. The Princess was a force user not a jedi. It makes more sense she is not related to anyone.
Edit: (Maybe it is hereditary since the Skywalkers keep going with it but they are not supposed to and so there are no others to compare).
I believe she was a youngling that Luke was training and probably had the most potential. They knew Kylo was going to kill them all. It was all Luke could do was save the last best hope. They take her Jakku to hide her. She sees the vision because maybe she was there.
My guess
Edit: (Maybe it is hereditary since the Skywalkers keep going with it but they are not supposed to and so there are no others to compare).
I believe she was a youngling that Luke was training and probably had the most potential. They knew Kylo was going to kill them all. It was all Luke could do was save the last best hope. They take her Jakku to hide her. She sees the vision because maybe she was there.
My guess
Which I would definitely love and throw money towards lol.
brickarts295
Member
Only reason I'm on this train is because we already "kinda" got a Skywalker already and another who is actually still alive. But whatever I'm down for an scenario where Leia's kid fights Luke's kid to the death (a 2nd time I guess -_-).
If Rey is a Skywalker, that'd be great. If Rey is an unknown, new character, that'd be great. Honestly, I don't really care either way. I'm already emotionally invested in her story, Finn's story, Poe's story, and last but not least, Kylo's story.
My only thoughts on Rey being a Skywalker are that if she is, I suspect it was Kylo Ren/Ben dropped her off on Jakku during one of his struggles with the light side of the Force. Luke wasn't at the academy, perhaps leaving it under the charge of Ben and some older teachers, not knowing that his nephew was going to betray the new Jedi Order.
After the betrayal, Kylo is ordered by Snoke to spare no prisoner's, but during a moment of weakness/compassion, he couldn't kill his little cousin, and instead dropped her off on Jakku. He probably used his mind probing abilities to mask that it was him, specifically who did it. he lied to Snoke about killing her.
He says in the scene with he Vader Mask, which happens after he learns that it was a girl that stole the Falcon with BB-8, that he feels it again, "the pulling of the light." I think he knew damn well who "the girl," was, and that's why he freaked out like he did, and force choked that officer. I always got the impression that he knew more about Rey than we thought.
Luke could have thought that his daughter was dead, and had only recently begun to suspect that she was alive, sending out visions to her where she's dreaming of the island, but perhaps, after 12 years apart, maybe he was just too ashamed to face her. Maybe he feels that he failed her as a father and a teacher. Maybe he DID search for her for a time, but was devastated when he couldn't find her, and feels embarrassed that he gave up on her.
The story will work regardless of Rey's parentage. She's a fun character, very different than Luke and Leia, and any of the other characters. My excitement for Episode VIII has nothing to do with whether she is a Skywalker or not.
The best thing that TFA did for me, and I love the movie to death, is it introduced me to a brand new crew of characters that I love as much as the original crew. This whole thing could have easily fallen apart if Abrams and Kasdan had fucked up Rey, Finn, Kylo, and Poe. TFA established strong leads that a new trilogy could be built off of. You couldn't really say that for the prequels.
My only thoughts on Rey being a Skywalker are that if she is, I suspect it was Kylo Ren/Ben dropped her off on Jakku during one of his struggles with the light side of the Force. Luke wasn't at the academy, perhaps leaving it under the charge of Ben and some older teachers, not knowing that his nephew was going to betray the new Jedi Order.
After the betrayal, Kylo is ordered by Snoke to spare no prisoner's, but during a moment of weakness/compassion, he couldn't kill his little cousin, and instead dropped her off on Jakku. He probably used his mind probing abilities to mask that it was him, specifically who did it. he lied to Snoke about killing her.
He says in the scene with he Vader Mask, which happens after he learns that it was a girl that stole the Falcon with BB-8, that he feels it again, "the pulling of the light." I think he knew damn well who "the girl," was, and that's why he freaked out like he did, and force choked that officer. I always got the impression that he knew more about Rey than we thought.
Luke could have thought that his daughter was dead, and had only recently begun to suspect that she was alive, sending out visions to her where she's dreaming of the island, but perhaps, after 12 years apart, maybe he was just too ashamed to face her. Maybe he feels that he failed her as a father and a teacher. Maybe he DID search for her for a time, but was devastated when he couldn't find her, and feels embarrassed that he gave up on her.
The story will work regardless of Rey's parentage. She's a fun character, very different than Luke and Leia, and any of the other characters. My excitement for Episode VIII has nothing to do with whether she is a Skywalker or not.
The best thing that TFA did for me, and I love the movie to death, is it introduced me to a brand new crew of characters that I love as much as the original crew. This whole thing could have easily fallen apart if Abrams and Kasdan had fucked up Rey, Finn, Kylo, and Poe. TFA established strong leads that a new trilogy could be built off of. You couldn't really say that for the prequels.
Forsaken82
Member
You are trying to argue that a good person can't be ethically challenged. In my opinion the best characters are those that are not written towards one spectrum of good or evil (or light vs dark as we have in Star wars).
The one thing I stand by is that TFA parallels a new hope by design, not by a lack of creativity. I think they are not going the traditional good vs evil route. I don't believe Rey is inherently good, and I don't think Ren is inherently bad (despite the choices he has made). Ultimately, Star Wars still has its big bad with Snoke and its big hero with Luke. There is the traditional good vs evil, but where Rey and Ren stand I think is debatable from an ethical standpoint.
VistraNorrez
Member
You know how on the set of ESB, Prowse didn't say "No, I am you father"? Instead he said "Obi-wan killed your father". What if they play on that in an upcoming episode? What if we find out Luke killed Rey's father and/or mother? Or maybe Kylo did? Or maybe Kylo kills Luke and then taunts Rey by saying he killer her father?
If Rey's parentage is important, and it isn't Luke, then I could very well see Kylo having something to do with their fates.
If Rey's parentage is important, and it isn't Luke, then I could very well see Kylo having something to do with their fates.
Did David Prowse talk at some point?
Like, did he say the lines and it was dubbed later?
VistraNorrez
Member
Yea there is plenty of footage of Prowse saying his lines on set. It's pretty funny. I think he expected to be the voice of Vader.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
And that's my point. That's not right. After all the anguish and pain Anakin suffered because of their rules Obi-Wan just goes "Nah, ima do it even though it ruined Anakin's life and destroyed him". Bullshit. It would make me actually really dislike the character even if he got a whole movie about it and he just changes his mind after years of training being told not to. It ruined the universe and old Obi-Wan just finds a lover after all this in secret? That would be massive bullshit.
Manmademan
Member
finished this movie yesterday. Somehow made it through without being spoiled, with the exception of
because some jackass made a throwaway comment or meme somewhere.
My first thoughts as soon as the movie ended about this was "That's obi-wan's granddaughter."
nothing else makes a lick of sense.
Rey can't be Leia and Han's daughter. Those two have one child that they struggled raising and sent to luke because of it. At no point did either of them mention having a second child despite meeting Rey multiple times, and there's not a whole lot of reason for them to have one in secret somewhere and stash her randomly in the desert of a planet they'd never been to. Han didn't even know where the falcon was, it had been stolen multiple times.
Rey isn't Luke's daughter either. Luke's life was perfectly public until Kylo Ren broke bad and killed his jedi trainees. He has a sister, brother in law, close friends, etc- you think he would mention getting married, having a child, having a lover or close companion especially since he was close enough to Leia and Han to take their child in and train him. Kylo seems to have gone bad in his teens or so, so Rey would have been an adolescent or preteen by then and her existence known by friends and family. It just doesn't work here.
Kenobi DOES work because there's a massive amount of time between the end of episode III and ANH where Jedi are pretty much extinct, he goes underground, sheds his old identity (stops calling himself 'obi wan' and goes to 'ben') and has a life as an ordinary citizen. Taking a lover, having children, and those children being elsewhere in the galaxy during IV-VI and told to stay out of empire business for their own good (because the empire is still hunting down force sensitives) is pretty plausible. He was still in hiding up until ANH under an assumed name and died a few days to weeks after going back to his old identity as a jedi. Could Rey be some random individual? yeah, but she's unusually strong in the force- stronger than Kylo is even without training and we know the force tends to run through family bloodlines. Who's the only jedi we know of that was more powerful than Anakin was in his prime? Obi Wan.
cut and dry for me.
Han solo dies
My first thoughts as soon as the movie ended about this was "That's obi-wan's granddaughter."
nothing else makes a lick of sense.
Rey can't be Leia and Han's daughter. Those two have one child that they struggled raising and sent to luke because of it. At no point did either of them mention having a second child despite meeting Rey multiple times, and there's not a whole lot of reason for them to have one in secret somewhere and stash her randomly in the desert of a planet they'd never been to. Han didn't even know where the falcon was, it had been stolen multiple times.
Rey isn't Luke's daughter either. Luke's life was perfectly public until Kylo Ren broke bad and killed his jedi trainees. He has a sister, brother in law, close friends, etc- you think he would mention getting married, having a child, having a lover or close companion especially since he was close enough to Leia and Han to take their child in and train him. Kylo seems to have gone bad in his teens or so, so Rey would have been an adolescent or preteen by then and her existence known by friends and family. It just doesn't work here.
Kenobi DOES work because there's a massive amount of time between the end of episode III and ANH where Jedi are pretty much extinct, he goes underground, sheds his old identity (stops calling himself 'obi wan' and goes to 'ben') and has a life as an ordinary citizen. Taking a lover, having children, and those children being elsewhere in the galaxy during IV-VI and told to stay out of empire business for their own good (because the empire is still hunting down force sensitives) is pretty plausible. He was still in hiding up until ANH under an assumed name and died a few days to weeks after going back to his old identity as a jedi. Could Rey be some random individual? yeah, but she's unusually strong in the force- stronger than Kylo is even without training and we know the force tends to run through family bloodlines. Who's the only jedi we know of that was more powerful than Anakin was in his prime? Obi Wan.
cut and dry for me.
MrCunningham
Member
She was cloned from the DNA of Luke's missing hand.
VistraNorrez
Member
We know Rey is ten years younger than Kylo. Age isn't an issue here. Everyone could have thought Kylo killed her when she was a kid. Kylo, in a moment of being pulled by the light side, couldn't bring himself to kill her, instead leaving her on the remote planet of Jakku. He used his Jedi mind powers and implanted a story about her family abandoning her.
There are plenty of ways to justify Luke's parentage of her. We honestly don't have enough information for anything to be definitive at this point. Hence why there is so much speculation.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
I'd believe this...
...over this any day. And again, reasons why:
LSauchelli
Member
In my head-canon, her parents don't matter because she's Anakin's reincarnation, which explains why he never bothered to slap some sense into Kylo's decision of going to the dark side.
Oh course, I doubt they will do something like that.
Oh course, I doubt they will do something like that.
Manmademan
Member
Clone Wars already established Obi Wan had a lover he was willing to leave the jedi over. That part isn't inconsistent. She died, but there's no reason he couldn't have met someone else later, especially since the jedi order was dead after episode 3.
before he disappeared. Luke went missing after Kylo killed his trainees. Rey would already have been born by then.
Yeah, doesn't stop Luke being the father.
People might know he has a daughter hidden away somewhere, they just don't know it's Rey.
Manmademan
Member
doesn't stop it, but it makes it implausible. Up until his trainees were killed there would have been no reason for luke to hide a daughter, or just not mention he had one, or a wife, or a companion. Especially since he was still close to leia and han up until that point.
Luke had close friends and family and the resistance had lots of resources. Even after his mental breakdown he made sure there was still a map to where he could be found in an uncharted region of the galaxy when the time was right to do so.
But even though he was lucid enough to do all that, he leaves NO information to anyone that he stuck his only child in the desert with Unkar Plutt? No instructions that "hey, there's probably a kid starving out there that might be useful that I left with a piece of shit?"
there's just no way to make that one work.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Technically, Luke being a Jedi goes against all of Obi Wan's training and Yoda's training.
Maybe he figured out in the interim that the Jedi were also wrong in their training.
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