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[Imperial Bishop]

A character not acting in a specific way isn't an inconsistency. If you get annoyed at human characters not acting 100% according to a set of character traits you pieced together, I don't know what to tell you.

That comparison doesn't hold weight.
When a fictional character in a story is written to act and think a certain way, --outside of character development-- any action they take that doesn't line up with what they did in previous episodes is acting "out-of-character".
And if it's happening to further the plot, then it's Plot-Induced Stupidity.

Wait, I actually do: Araki doesn't bother with small details at the expense of telling a more interesting story. And if you found this annoying, part 5 and part 6 are gonna piss you off in a major way.

You might be under the impression that this has ruined the episode for me. I thought this was a great episode. These small details didn't take any of my excitement away from Kira vs Josuke. It's just a bumpy way of keeping the other characters away from the action.
And I have no doubt that Araki would have written an even more interesting way to give Kira the edge even with five other Stand users going up against him.

 

[Breads]

Like Stray Cat is floating in mid-air.

just like how the Anubis fight had a mysterious floating sword

Not only is Stray Cat floating but it also disappears into thin air when Kira retreats Killer Queen... reappearing again later when he brings it out again.

 

[PK Gaming]

when you get DESTROYED at fighting games and come up with excuses for your loss

 

[Riposte]

Joseph not using Hermit Purple to find Kira after being brought out to find Akira is the most annoying plot hole of Part 4, and the whole series, really.

 

[cntr]

I always rationalized that as Kira's dad protecting him, because Atom Heart Father is a photo power, and Hermit Purple is a photo power, so it makes sense right??

(and then Kira's dad showed up in all of Joseph's pictures and called him a shit dad)

 

[Betty]

Joseph not using Hermit Purple to find Kira after being brought out to find Akira is the most annoying plot hole of Part 4, and the whole series, really.

When Joseph used Hermit Purple to find Josuke he got an image of Angelo instead.

With all the different stand users in Morioh it's possible even if he tried to use Hermit Purple to find Kira that all he'd get are pictures of other stand users.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Okuyasu is probably too dumb to realize he's dead even if he died for real.
I expect him to just wake up like nothing happened. That or Reimi does something.

Heavenly voice: "Okuyasu! Okuyasu! Come towards the light."
Okuyasu: "Eeeehhhh? Who the hell do you think you are? Don't tell me what to do, dipshit! Ha! I won't go towards ya dumb light. Shove it."

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Hermit Purple has a bad track record

> picture of DIO that tells you nothing unless you have microscopic super eyes
> KAKYOIN IS THE TRAITOR
> vague map directions to a barrel filled with coal tar?!?
> Wants pic of Josuke; gets Angelo

 

[Riposte]

When Joseph used Hermit Purple to find Josuke he got an image of Angelo instead.

With all the different stand users in Morioh it's possible even if he tried to use Hermit Purple to find Kira that all he'd get are pictures of other stand users.

It works well enough that they were going to try it. Him doing it and failing would have satisfied me on the matter. It's painfully unacknowledged.

 

[cntr]

If it hadn't been for the production issues, I wouldn't be surprised if David Pro wanted to add a scene of Hermit Purple being used and failing.

 

[Breads]

Shigechi had "half his brain blown into his skull" and was still able to move around and use his Stand.

Injuries aren't fatal unless Araki wants them to be.

Remember the nazi that was cut in half vertically who was still talking, crying, and grasping with his arm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wKnu4joWJs

 

[grandjedi6]

Hermit Purple has a bad track record

> picture of DIO that tells you nothing unless you have microscopic super eyes
> KAKYOIN IS THE TRAITOR
> vague map directions to a barrel filled with coal tar?!?
> Wants pic of Josuke; gets Angelo

Yeah, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if Jotaro just gave up on his grandpa's shitty stand.

 

[Pompadour]

Yeah, if logic inconsistencies bother you now then every part of Jojo from here on out is going to be torture. You just gotta go with the flow.

 

[StoneFox]

The fly in the picture of Dio was kinda silly to me because didn't Avdol first see him in Egypt? Like, try there first? I dunno, maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

 

[cntr]

well, Araki read about Egyptian flies, and really wanted to tell people about it

Jokes aside, it becomes less silly once you find out that Dio did a bunch of traveling, like Okuyasu's dad didn't go to Egypt, Dio visited Japan

 

[Betty]

The fly in the picture of Dio was kinda silly to me because didn't Avdol first see him in Egypt? Like, try there first? I dunno, maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

Let's spend precious time getting to Egypt on the off chance he might still be there because Avdol ran into him a while back!

 

[cntr]

Tower of Gray really screwed things up for the Crusaders

 

[Sibersk Esto]

The fly in the picture of Dio was kinda silly to me because didn't Avdol first see him in Egypt? Like, try there first? I dunno, maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

I guess they wanted his current location since avdol saw him months prior.

 

[Beaniedude]

Look I love JoJo but inconsistencies is just lazy writing to get a cool story. So if it's going to get a lot worse than it is at present I'll have to bail at the end of this arc.

Or continue watching and complain incessantly.

I'll probably do the latter option.

 

[cntr]

ok dude. I'm not sure what you think Jojo is other than "a cool story".

You might be under the impression that this has ruined the episode for me. I thought this was a great episode.

sure, but that's pretty hard to tell when the entire thread talks about almost nothing else for pages on end. there's no possible response to it other than "that's how Jojo is", so it's just a circular argument about nothing, and that's really frustrating.

consistency will never be an important part of the series, because that's simply not what Jojo intends to be.

edit: And honestly, part of the blame is on David Pro. Diamond is Unbreakable is easily the worst adaptation they've done yet, and I'm not talking about the animation issues. They've cut out so many things that I'd consider crucial to understanding what DiU and Jojo in general is about, and fail miserably at getting across what DiU should've gotten across.

 

[Viridian6]

Kinda slow-paced for the final battle, compared to Part 3's finale.

As others have pointed out, Kira was earlier able to use Killer Queen's normal bomb while SHA was active, so he really should be able to deploy SHA here. But Araki probably forgot...

Strange that Kira can't detonate the air bubble too close when he's blown up plenty of things via direct contact?

 

[remz]

I think he can have 1 x normal bomb, one SHA, and if he's using Bites Za Dusto he can use neither because killer queen is possessing whoever he put it on

 

[papertoonz]

Kinda slow-paced for the final battle, compared to Part 3's finale.

As others have pointed out, Kira was earlier able to use Killer Queen's normal bomb while SHA was active, so he really should be able to deploy SHA here. But Araki probably forgot...

Strange that Kira can't detonate the air bubble too close when he's blown up plenty of things via direct contact?

SHA is useless cause josuke can return it back to him

 

[Viridian6]

SHA is useless cause josuke can return it back to him

Sure, but with Josuke having to focus on so many things it might influence the battle (it could target Hayato). And Kira won't lose anything by deploying it (unless Koichi shows up).

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

edit: And honestly, part of the blame is on David Pro. Diamond is Unbreakable is easily the worst adaptation they've done yet, and I'm not talking about the animation issues. They've cut out so many things that I'd consider crucial to understanding what DiU and Jojo in general is about, and fail miserably at getting across what DiU should've gotten across.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaat

 

[cntr]

SHA's explosions are uncontrolled, and Kira isn't immune to his own explosions. He'd risk blowing himself up.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Yes, I mean it. They completely fumbled at adapting DiU, and I say that while still enjoying it.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Yes, I mean it. They completely fumbled at adapting DiU, and I say that while still enjoying it.

Diamond is Unbreakable, while certainly not perfect, is easily the best Jojo TV has ever been, compared to the shaky quality of Season 1 and the turgid adaptation of Stardust Crusaders. Just because the anime didn't adapt everything panel-for-panel doesn't make it bad.

 

[cntr]

The anime's great, yeah, but the manga is still better.

And I'm not talking about cutting panels, I'm talking about cutting important plot points and changing the tone of entire arcs, and of the part overall. There's a structure and theme to DiU that they failed to depict.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

The anime's great, yeah, but the manga is still better.

And I'm not talking about cutting panels, I'm talking about cutting important plot points and changing the tone of entire arcs, and of the part overall. There's a structure and theme to DiU that they failed to depict.

Changing the tone of the entire part? How so?

 

[cntr]

Well, like, you know how DiU has a thing where it brings back characters from previous arcs, right? That goes further in the manga, because it also brings back themes from the previous arcs.

That bit with Hayato talking about Josuke appearing not being fate, but a gamble? That's a reference to Rohan's speech about "creating your own luck" from the Boy II Man fight. A manga reader might not notice that specific example, but it's there to notice, and it's one example out of many. But good luck figuring any of that out from the anime.

And they totally screwed up the tone of several arcs by cutting out the jokes and lighthearted banter. Like the Ratt arc in the manga is hilarious and makes Josuke very relatable, but the anime episode...isn't much like it.

And so on and so on. It's a series of missteps that combined together, prevent the anime from being the adaptation it should be.

 

[munchie64]

Part 1 and 2 are definitely better in anime form. David Pro's direction and use of colour, the incredible voice work, music and sound design add so much to an already solid adaptation. Granted I read the manga after so I'm sure I have plenty of biases.

Don't know if I'll ever get around to reading part 3, but I'll definitely try to read Part 4 to compare after this is all done.

 

[cntr]

The SDC anime is pretty close to the manga, except the manga has better pacing, of course.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Well, like, you know how DiU has a thing where it brings back characters from previous arcs, right? That goes further in the manga, because it also brings back themes from the previous arcs.

That bit with Hayato talking about Josuke appearing not being fate, but a gamble? That's a reference to Rohan's speech about "creating your own luck" from the Boy II Man fight. A manga reader might not notice that specific example, but it's there to notice, and it's one example out of many. But good luck figuring any of that out from the anime.

And they totally screwed up the tone of several arcs by cutting out the jokes and lighthearted banter. Like the Ratt arc in the manga is hilarious and makes Josuke very relatable, but the anime episode...isn't much like it.

And so on and so on. It's a series of missteps that combined together, prevent the anime from being the adaptation it should be.

These sound like very minor issues, if they are issues at all, that basically amount to some lines of dialogue being cut for reasons of time. It's the kind of complaint I have heard all through the anime adaptation - that it cut out such and such a panel that someone really liked - but I feel that's the kind of sacrifice for the sake of the overall pacing that's worth it. I can understand why a manga megafan would be bothered, since you probably have a very clear image in your mind of how the anime should go before it starts, but I have trouble categorizing these things you list as "missteps".

The part of Diamond is Unbreakable where the pressure of a tight production schedule began to show and the direction and animation deteriorated - now that's a real misstep, but one which, while I lament it, I find it difficult to be too hard on the anime staff for given production realities.

 

[Glass Rebel]

That comparison doesn't hold weight.
When a fictional character in a story is written to act and think a certain way, --outside of character development-- any action they take that doesn't line up with what they did in previous episodes is acting "out-of-character".
And if it's happening to further the plot, then it's Plot-Induced Stupidity.

Jotaro not checking out something he thought sounded like Josuke instead of waiting for Josuke to show up like they agreed on is such a minor thing, it's honestly laughable that people are even bringing it up. It's not like this hasn't happened before either, like in the "The Devil" arc in SDC.

 

[cntr]

Sure, each cut is individually a minor issue...but when you cut so much, it adds up. Those "some lines of dialogue" set a tone and flow for DiU that the anime failed to capture, and when you cut them out from everything and fail to compensate for it, it changes the entire part, and for the worse.

It's still a great show, but the manga is much greater. And as an adaptation, it's a mess.

...and I don't like the suggestion that I'm only complaining because they cut out scenes that I like. Like dude, I like the show too, but they simply failed to properly adapt the manga.

 

[Pinewood]

Jotaro not checking out something he thought sounded like Josuke instead of waiting for Josuke to show up like they agreed on is such a minor thing, it's honestly laughable that people are even bringing it up. It's not like this hasn't happened before either, like in the "The Devil" arc in SDC.

SDC was full of "wheres xxx? Nah, hes fine, its not like were going against Dio and his army of STANDO users and should try and stick togeather"

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Sure, each cut is individually a minor issue...but when you cut so much, it adds up. Those "some lines of dialogue" set a tone and flow for DiU that the anime failed to capture, and when you cut them out from everything and fail to compensate for it, it changes the entire part, and for the worse. The production issues are just the cherry on the top.

It's still a great show, but the manga is much greater. And as an adaptation, it's a mess.

...and I don't like the suggestion that I'm only complaining because they cut out scenes that I like. Like dude, I like the show too, but they simply failed to properly adapt the manga.

I think if you prefer Stardust Crusaders to Diamond is Unbreakable, we simply have different ideas on what an anime adaptation should be. DiU has shown so much creativity overall in adapting the story into the animated medium through animation-specific techniques, and is probably the best paced out of any of the Jojo TV anime parts. Stardust Crusaders is probably the least creative out of any of the Jojo TV parts, which means I enjoy it the least.

I will confess I am biased against manga readers complaining about adaptation differences, since in so many of those cases what seems to be desired by manga readers is for the anime to be the manga with color and sound rather than show any independent artistry. Adaptations can certainly change things for the worse, but at the end of the day different mediums require different approaches and having different takes on the same base material is something that should be encouraged.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Sure, each cut is individually a minor issue...but when you cut so much, it adds up. Those "some lines of dialogue" set a tone and flow for DiU that the anime failed to capture, and when you cut them out from everything, it changes the entire part. The production issues are just the cherry on the top.

It's still a great show, but the manga is much greater. And as an adaptation, it's a mess.

...and I don't like the suggestion that I'm only complaining because they cut out scenes that I like. Like dude, I like the show too, but they failed to convey what the manga's about.

Eh, I agree to a certain extent. Every adaptation is gonna lose something from the original and they were severely limited in terms of episode count and budget. But I think they made the right call in many instances to cut out stuff. It's not perfect but ultimately it's a pretty good anime. I guess it depends on what you want from an adaptation.

 

[cntr]

My issue isn't that they cut out stuff -- it's that they failed to compensate for it. When they cut stuff out of Battle Tendency, they worked around it and maintained the tone of Part 2. When they cut stuff out of Diamond is Unbreakable, they didn't.

They've done good stuff, sure, but they've done shit stuff too. And as an overall adaptation, it isn't good. I still enjoy the show, and would rate it highly, but it's the first part where the manga is clearly superior.

(And I think the SDC adaptation is pretty flawed, but it wasn't as much of a mess.)

 

[Crocodile]

A) I feel I should make clear that some weird pacing and the stuff I mentioned earlier aside the episode was quite good. Also maybe calling Okuyasu useless was too much but I swear that dude spends most battles letting the bad guy get away or face down in a pool of his own blood. He does NOT have a good match record.

B) I think the biggest flaw of DIU, aside from some production issues that meant stuff like the cool transitions vanished after a while, was that the crunched schedule meant they couldn't spend a bit of time patching over "plot holes" and other oddities they patched over in Stardust Crusaders.The pacing in DIU has been better though and I thought episodes like the fight vs. Ratt was pretty good so whatever was cut couldn't have been that important?

Joseph not using Hermit Purple to find Kira after being brought out to find Akira is the most annoying plot hole of Part 4, and the whole series, really.

Yeah that never sat right with me :/

Hermit Purple has a bad track record

> picture of DIO that tells you nothing unless you have microscopic super eyes
> KAKYOIN IS THE TRAITOR
> vague map directions to a barrel filled with coal tar?!?
> Wants pic of Josuke; gets Angelo

To be fair the Kakyoin bit made sense since it was actually tracking Rubber Soul and the fight with Empress was pretty awesome.

Jotaro not checking out something he thought sounded like Josuke instead of waiting for Josuke to show up like they agreed on is such a minor thing, it's honestly laughable that people are even bringing it up. It's not like this hasn't happened before either, like in the "The Devil" arc in SDC.

I mean what happened in the Devil fight from SDC was ALSO fucking stupid LOL. "Dumb stuff happened in the past so its ok if more dumb stuff happens" is never a good justification

 

[Breads]

It's nothing that can't be fixed in BRDs but I'm going to meekly agree with cntr only in the sense that the changes made ultimately made for a worse story. The only improvements was marrying the last few pre BTD encounters and the order of the Cindarella story but beyond that the changes were not for the better.

I still prefer the anime adaptation though. Probably because about 60% of my memories of DIU were from the Duwang version of the manga.

 

[cntr]

I should say that I'm coming off harsher than I actually feel. I still think it's a great show, and I hope they'll fix the animation issues in the blu-rays, but...when I talk about the first three parts, I can say the anime and manga are almost equivalent. I can't say that about DiU.

 

[Mista Koo]

Jotaro not checking out something he thought sounded like Josuke instead of waiting for Josuke to show up like they agreed on is such a minor thing, it's honestly laughable that people are even bringing it up. It's not like this hasn't happened before either, like in the "The Devil" arc in SDC.

No it's not. When a weakness of a work is repeated doesn't mean it should be forever taken as granted and ignored.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I mean what happened in the Devil fight from SDC was ALSO fucking stupid LOL. "Dumb stuff happened in the past so its ok if more dumb stuff happens" is never a good justification

The argument was that Jotaro is acting "out of character" because he didn't check on Josuke but it wasn't the first time he didn't check on something suspicious. People are applying their knowledge of the situation to judge the actions of characters that don't have that knowledge. It's honestly quite puzzling.

Maybe Jotaro is just dumb.

 

[cntr]

Jotaro's an asshole, duh.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm30198291

 

[Monochromaticx]

I should say that I'm coming off harsher than I actually feel. I still think it's a great show, and I hope they'll fix the animation issues in the blu-rays, but...when I talk about the first three parts, I can say the anime and manga are almost equivalent. I can't say that about DiU.

I agree. The manga makes better use of angles and close ups it also has better details, especially face details.

 

[Crocodile]

Things I miss - the way endings of episodes used to flow into the ending song. Not every song is Roundabout of course I'm sure they could've made it work here if they wanted to/had the time. Maybe its the fact that I'm watching also HxH now that is making me miss those transitions even more.

The argument was that Jotaro is acting "out of character" because he didn't check on Josuke but it wasn't the first time he didn't check on something suspicious. People are applying their knowledge of the situation to judge the actions of characters that don't have that knowledge. It's honestly quite puzzling.

Maybe Jotaro is just dumb.

I mean Jotaro has shown himself to be especially astute, observant and intelligent across both SDC and DIU. That's why moments like these are extra ??????

 

[Betty]

Things I miss - the way endings of episodes used to flow into the ending song. Not every song is Roundabout of course I'm sure they could've made it work here if they wanted to/had the time. Maybe its the fact that I'm watching also HxH now that is making me miss those transitions even more.

To be fair I've never seen another anime do outro's as good as HxH, whole other league.

The only thing that comes close is as you mentioned the JoJo stuff.

 

[ScribbleD]

Heavenly voice: "Okuyasu! Okuyasu! Come towards the light."
Okuyasu: "Eeeehhhh? Who the hell do you think you are? Don't tell me what to do, dipshit! Ha! I won't go towards ya dumb light. Shove it."

Spoiler

I was so sure he was just playing dead until the air bomb got close enough for him to spring back to life and use the hand to pull in Kira next to his own bomb.