Escape Goat
Member
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
*gouges out eyes*
*gouges out eyes*
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Joss Wheddon Thread (Buffy, Angel, Firefly, X-Men)
- Thread starter Escape Goat
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SolidSnakex
Member
Without Joss these, should've been the last images of Buffy till he was able to handle the show again, or till he got a real replacement (David Fury would've been nice):
It just should've been left there till they had a real direction to go into.
It just should've been left there till they had a real direction to go into.
SolidSnakex
Member
I'd prefer to think that she gave her life to save the world. I like Dawn, but she wasn't enough to die over. 
Season 5 as a whole did everything right though. Really good pacing, nice character development (especially for Anya). Some really good fights. The exit of the worst Buffyverse character, Riley. And a pretty good Big Bad in Glory.
That does remind me though, of the screw up when they brought Buffy back. They had it where Buffy was able to be hit by Spike and never explained why. It made no sense that Buffy was supposedly fully human again, and Spike wasn't allowed to be able to hit anyone human without hit chip going off, but he could beat Buffy without anything happening. Brings me back to my theory that they were going to make Buffy bad in Season 7 and decided not to.
Just going by what Joss always talked about how Buffy would end, the way it did just didn't seem to fall in line with it. He always seemed to want it to end in a dark way so it wouldn't be your cliche ending. He mentioned one of the endings (which was going to occur in Season 5) was that Sunnydale was going to get sucked into the Hellmouth with Buffy and the Scoobies. Even how it did end in Season 5, it was still dark. The way Angel ended seem to be the way Buffy was suppose to. With them going into a fight that they probably won't live from. But there's always that chance.
Season 5 as a whole did everything right though. Really good pacing, nice character development (especially for Anya). Some really good fights. The exit of the worst Buffyverse character, Riley. And a pretty good Big Bad in Glory.
That does remind me though, of the screw up when they brought Buffy back. They had it where Buffy was able to be hit by Spike and never explained why. It made no sense that Buffy was supposedly fully human again, and Spike wasn't allowed to be able to hit anyone human without hit chip going off, but he could beat Buffy without anything happening. Brings me back to my theory that they were going to make Buffy bad in Season 7 and decided not to.
Just going by what Joss always talked about how Buffy would end, the way it did just didn't seem to fall in line with it. He always seemed to want it to end in a dark way so it wouldn't be your cliche ending. He mentioned one of the endings (which was going to occur in Season 5) was that Sunnydale was going to get sucked into the Hellmouth with Buffy and the Scoobies. Even how it did end in Season 5, it was still dark. The way Angel ended seem to be the way Buffy was suppose to. With them going into a fight that they probably won't live from. But there's always that chance.
SolidSnakex said:That's pretty much exactly how I feel. Every single character in the series that had a decent amount of time spent in the series got an appropriate ending. Even Jenny who wasn't even in the series too long got a pretty good one. And it could be used as the "shock" ending too, just for seeing Giles' face when he finds her laying in his bed. The problem with Anya's death is no one seemed to care. This went right back to why she always hated humans in the first place and why she for awhile didn't want to go back to being human. Because she knew that they'd forget about you the second you were gone. And that's what happened, no one even seemed to notice she was gone outside of Xander and Andrew. It sucked even more since Anya became my favorite character for the final 2 seasons since they ran Buffy into the ground.
"I thought all of season 7 was the biggest trashpile ever. And you can't say it was because "Joss Whedon was too busy with Firefly" because Angel Season 4 sure as hell did fine without much of his input (though I'm sure he had input for both shows)"
"Blame me! Blame me! It's all my fault."
I come not to praise Marti, but to comfort her...it's ok Marti...I'll take care of you..
Really I can't defend what happened in the last two seasons, though I did enjoy 6 a lot and there were some good moments in 7. Way too many dropped threads though. The FE is easily the most underutilized and mis-used big bad ever. I still love Marti though..
SSX is right though...she is a helluva writer, and maybe she should stick to that. SolidSnakex
Member
A couple of Joss tidbits. He recently said in a convention that the spinoff he's interested in right now is a Spike/Illyria one. He also pointed out that we hadn't seen the last of puppet Angel. So maybe he's further along with the spinoff plans than we thought. Both James and Amy have said they're interested in any Buffyverse project, so he won't have to work with them to get them interested like he'd have to get Eliza for a Faith one.
I thought 6 sucked a lot (unfortunately the thread no longer exists but I said plenty about it there), 7... I thought 7 rocked, defended it here (well, at the old GAF) but I've been catching some re-runs and my enthusiasm for it is waning... The dropped threads *are* annoying and I didn't notice that many until this thread. Too many speeches as well. But I like the big moments and the fact that the team seemed to relish destroying what they had created in BOTH series.
I picked up Season 7 for £30 on DVD, I'm not planning on watching it any time soon because I think it's still too soon (and come to think of it, I don't think I've rewatched a series of Buffy yet...) But I'll get round to it when my interest piques again.
I picked up Season 7 for £30 on DVD, I'm not planning on watching it any time soon because I think it's still too soon (and come to think of it, I don't think I've rewatched a series of Buffy yet...) But I'll get round to it when my interest piques again.
A Spike/Illyria match up could be cool. I liked how Wes had a sort of power over her but was teaching her in some way about what it is to be human. There were a coupe of moments with Spike though that came across really well, things Wes couldn't say or teach but Spike in his upfront bluntness did it aptly.
SolidSnakex
Member
Season 7 rocked if you look at it from an episodic standpoint. There were probably 2 eps through the entire season that weren't good. Basically every ep that season was atleast good if you just look at it by itself. The problem is that it's hard to do that because Buffy isn't episodic, it's meant to be very story driven. And they weren't even trying to make it episodic because they were building a story through the entire season. Still for an ep to ep basis Season 7 was really good. But it's really hard to sit and watch it because you'll notice how much potential it had to stand up to the best in the series but it ended up failing.
The Spike/Illyria thing could work very well. Spike will bring in a big fanbase just because James has a ton of fangirls that follow him. They could probably get a few other members back too. But if they did do it, i'd like to see how they made it out of that final battle. I don't want any jumps. Just show exactly how they could make it out of something like that.
"I'll take a Spike/Illyria spin off. Eliza is doing Tru Calling for another year"
It's still amazing that TC got a new season isn't it?
The Spike/Illyria thing could work very well. Spike will bring in a big fanbase just because James has a ton of fangirls that follow him. They could probably get a few other members back too. But if they did do it, i'd like to see how they made it out of that final battle. I don't want any jumps. Just show exactly how they could make it out of something like that.
"I'll take a Spike/Illyria spin off. Eliza is doing Tru Calling for another year"
It's still amazing that TC got a new season isn't it?
Escape Goat
Member
Buffy in season 6 and 7 didn't look or feel at all like Buffy from prior seasons. She got really skinny and especially in season 7 she sounded like she had the damn flu. It was really hard to think of her as the spry Vampire Slayer from season 5.
Season 5's fighting style rocked though. I don't know if such swan like fighting moves are practical but at least it gave her another flavor. Faith has the street fighting style and it was cool to see some variation in the slayers.
Season 5's fighting style rocked though. I don't know if such swan like fighting moves are practical but at least it gave her another flavor. Faith has the street fighting style and it was cool to see some variation in the slayers.
SolidSnakex
Member
Sarah actually was sick through several eps in Season 7, so that's why it sounded like she had the flu. Because she did. She also got skinnier because of how much she had to work out. I think she said she basically worked out 5 hours a day then filmed Buffy. She had to keep working out because she kept getting injured in earlier seasons because she wasn't agile enough to handle some stuff they had her doing.
I thought the problem was more of the writing than her look. Through Season 1-5 she was always written as being really energetic. Once Season 6 rolled around she was basically constantly depressed. It ended up making the show way too serious. She was really witty in through the earlier seasons and that just stopped and she became too serious. Actually everyone became way too serious. The serious aspect worked with Angel because that's how it always was. Buffy didn't work that way because it wasn't how the characters originally were.
She also got skinnier because of how much she had to work out. I think she said she basically worked out 5 hours a day then filmed Buffy. She had to keep working out because she kept getting injured in earlier seasons because she wasn't agile enough to handle some stuff they had her doing.I thought the problem was more of the writing than her look. Through Season 1-5 she was always written as being really energetic. Once Season 6 rolled around she was basically constantly depressed. It ended up making the show way too serious. She was really witty in through the earlier seasons and that just stopped and she became too serious. Actually everyone became way too serious. The serious aspect worked with Angel because that's how it always was. Buffy didn't work that way because it wasn't how the characters originally were.
In responce to the original post about Wes.
I think he got the strongest scene. Everyone cared, they just didn't need to speak it, because they knew, in 15 minutes, they would be joining him.
Incase you didn't get it, everybody dies at the end of Angel (save whoever they use to make a spin-off).
I think he got the strongest scene. Everyone cared, they just didn't need to speak it, because they knew, in 15 minutes, they would be joining him.
Incase you didn't get it, everybody dies at the end of Angel (save whoever they use to make a spin-off).
SolidSnakex
Member
Well Joss wouldn't be thinking over a Spike/Illyria spinoff if they were all dead. Joss always says that he'll end stuff where there's always a possibility for spinoffs. It might look like there's no way to survive but you've got to remember, they never showed them all being killed. So the clear possibility is there.
With what Buddy mentioned, it'd seem like Joss was setting up Season 6 to be a constant war with all those demons. Somehow Angel and the gang would escape and all through the season it'd be them fighting against those demons but in smaller batches than them getting ganged up on.
With what Buddy mentioned, it'd seem like Joss was setting up Season 6 to be a constant war with all those demons. Somehow Angel and the gang would escape and all through the season it'd be them fighting against those demons but in smaller batches than them getting ganged up on.
DJ Demon J
Banned
Perhaps Buffy, the Scoobies and the new Slayers would have come along to save the day.
And wouldn't such a large demonic force mobilizing in downtown LA draw the attention of other do-gooders in the area? I find it hard to believe (given the suspension of disbelief it already takes to watch any fantasy/sci-fi show) that a shitload of Level 40 demons gated in to Earth wouldn't cause more of a response than just Angel and Co. in a back alley fighting.
And wouldn't such a large demonic force mobilizing in downtown LA draw the attention of other do-gooders in the area? I find it hard to believe (given the suspension of disbelief it already takes to watch any fantasy/sci-fi show) that a shitload of Level 40 demons gated in to Earth wouldn't cause more of a response than just Angel and Co. in a back alley fighting.
I think what happens is Angel and Gunn die. The demons vanish.
Spike and Illiyria survive somehow, almost dead. Then they use that for the spin-off.
Those are the only characters that haven't had any closure.
Wes had closure when he hooked up with Fred, the rest of the season he was drifting.
Angel had closure at the end of season 4. He shanshu'd through Conner. The shanshu prophecy had already happened before it was signed. Season 5 was just him fufilling his part of the "agreement" (prophecy).
Spike and Illiyria survive somehow, almost dead. Then they use that for the spin-off.
Those are the only characters that haven't had any closure.
Wes had closure when he hooked up with Fred, the rest of the season he was drifting.
Angel had closure at the end of season 4. He shanshu'd through Conner. The shanshu prophecy had already happened before it was signed. Season 5 was just him fufilling his part of the "agreement" (prophecy).
Escape Goat
Member
I know its just a TV show but in context of the show itself I find it suprising that Angel didn't communicate with Buffy on a regular basis. Or with Spike for that matter. She has dozens of Slayers at her disposal but can't spare a few to help save her true love? She may not trust him but theres no mistaking that he was doing good.
DJ Demon J
Banned
Tabris said:
But when Buffy was reincarnated in Season 6, by Episode 4 Willow spills the beans to Cordelia and Angel finds out. However, they meet "somewhere else" (in Buffy's words to Giles) to catch up on things. I would assume they had subsequent meetings in BS7 and AS4.
Personally I think the PTB would hhve stepped in and done something about all those Demons on Earth.. they have to maintain a balance afterall. Jasmine, if she had still been alive, would of had those demons for lunch (well not literally, but she could have had the entire world fighting against them in some fashion).
DJ Demon J
Banned
Tabris said:
Having not yet seen all of Season 3, 4 and 5 of Angel, you'll have to post it for me.
SolidSnakex said:
I think that's a very good way of putting it. Didn't Joss put something in the US release of Season 4 that said something similar about that season?
SolidSnakex said:
(and to the rest of the posts about where it would go)
I think there are plenty of plausible ways out of the scenario. Considering Gunn's condition, I think retreat would have to be on the cards, possibly with the help of others (Gunn's old crew, Buffy et al). And I agree with SSX's notion that it would be a year devoted to killing the monsters W&H sent. Maybe not even a season, the senior partners may realise their action was rash and instead, go for the slow crushing kill in some way. Remember, they played Team Angel all along through season 5 (at least, that's what I got out of it), they may have thought of a better way (and a rather kick ass story line) of getting them.
It's a show/universe where people have died and come back, sometimes more than once. Until they're dead, I don't think you can't really say. But yeah, I definitely think they could've gotten out of it.
As for the talk of Buffy - I really didn't like it when they included Buffy in Angel's last season. Drop in a blond girl and never show her face... doesn't really work for me
I don't think it really matters if they lived or died in that fight. I don't think that was the point. The whole idea was that the show ended with them getting ready to fight, the message being the fight goes on. It's never over. There is no final battle. There is no big reward. It just keeps going and going.
Escape Goat
Member
It may be a cool thematic goal but as far as receiving any satisfaction for watching the show the past 5 years it was minimal.
Well, they were in an alley way with nowhere to run to...
Well, they were in an alley way with nowhere to run to...
SolidSnakex
Member
SFA_AOK said:I think that's a very good way of putting it. Didn't Joss put something in the US release of Season 4 that said something similar about that season?
(and to the rest of the posts about where it would go)
I think there are plenty of plausible ways out of the scenario. Considering Gunn's condition, I think retreat would have to be on the cards, possibly with the help of others (Gunn's old crew, Buffy et al). And I agree with SSX's notion that it would be a year devoted to killing the monsters W&H sent. Maybe not even a season, the senior partners may realise their action was rash and instead, go for the slow crushing kill in some way. Remember, they played Team Angel all along through season 5 (at least, that's what I got out of it), they may have thought of a better way (and a rather kick ass story line) of getting them.
It's a show/universe where people have died and come back, sometimes more than once. Until they're dead, I don't think you can't really say. But yeah, I definitely think they could've gotten out of it.
As for the talk of Buffy - I really didn't like it when they included Buffy in Angel's last season. Drop in a blond girl and never show her face... doesn't really work for me
Yah Season 4 was an attempt at an episodic season. Joss did it just because he wanted to see how it'd work. It ended up being a weak season overall with a very weak Big Bad and the introduction of the worst Buffyverse character ever (i'm sure everyone knows who that is by now
).With Gunn's condition if they didn't escape I can't see how he'd survive. He could barely even stand from all the damage he'd taken in the previous fight. But I think they'd get away some way. If they lost that'd mean those demons would take over the world, right? So i'm sure they got out of it some way. The episode title was "Not Fade Away" which seems to imply that there's no way they'd lose.
"Well, they were in an alley way with nowhere to run to..."
Wasn't there a door right next to where Gunn was standing? They could've escaped into that? Well Gunn anyway because there's no way even with how crazy he is that he'd think he could win a fight like that.
SolidSnakex
Member
I think he would. Mainly because he has nowhere else to go. He can't go to Buffy because she's already moved on. And Spike very clearly needs to be around someone. Remember that when he didn't have Dru he went out and got Harmony because he needed someone around him. I think he felt like be belonged with that team so I think he'd stuck around. He had several chances to leave already and he never did.
Well actually he did have a place to go, but I don't think he'd want to stay with Andrew.
Well actually he did have a place to go, but I don't think he'd want to stay with Andrew.
I don't think the possibility that they could beat those demons is out of the question. If you look at the scene closely it's not THAT many. It's certainly not comparable to FE's army of ubies. We also have no indication of how powerful they were. We've seen them all take on groups of baddies before and do fine. It looks like a tough fight, especially for Gunn, but I wouldn't say they were 100% doomed.
And no, the demons wouldn't have taken over the world had they won. In fact the impression I got was that they would simply have left and gone back to where they came from when Angel died. That army wasn't the apocolypse. They weren't the big plan for world domination. That was what the Black Thorn was working on. The army sent at the end was just the Senior Partners being pissed and wanting to take out Angel once and for all.
Did anyone else see the interview about season 6 by David Fury? He said the gang taking out the Black Thorn would have started a huge war between good and evil that would actually lead to the apocolypse. The show would take place in post-apocalyptic LA. He compared it to Mad Max.
That would have been really weird. How would they deal with the scoobies then?
And no, the demons wouldn't have taken over the world had they won. In fact the impression I got was that they would simply have left and gone back to where they came from when Angel died. That army wasn't the apocolypse. They weren't the big plan for world domination. That was what the Black Thorn was working on. The army sent at the end was just the Senior Partners being pissed and wanting to take out Angel once and for all.
Did anyone else see the interview about season 6 by David Fury? He said the gang taking out the Black Thorn would have started a huge war between good and evil that would actually lead to the apocolypse. The show would take place in post-apocalyptic LA. He compared it to Mad Max.
That would have been really weird. How would they deal with the scoobies then?
I figured this would be the best place to ask. Anyone know where the cheapest place to get Buffy season 1-6 and all the Angle season 1-3 DVDs?
deepdiscountdvd.com $368 free shipping
Buy.com $375 +shipping
Amazon.com $379 +shipping
BestBuy.com $429 free shipping
any other places I should look?
Only caught the last few Angle eps on TV and seen a few eps of Buffy on FX. Both show seem pretty good.
Thanks
deepdiscountdvd.com $368 free shipping
Buy.com $375 +shipping
Amazon.com $379 +shipping
BestBuy.com $429 free shipping
any other places I should look?
Only caught the last few Angle eps on TV and seen a few eps of Buffy on FX. Both show seem pretty good.
Thanks
"Wasn't there a door right next to where Gunn was standing? They could've escaped into that? Well Gunn anyway because there's no way even with how crazy he is that he'd think he could win a fight like that."
Yeah, I think as well that there's a fence behind them so they may be a way out over that way.
I doubt they'd deal with it right away. You'd get a "Previously on Angel" leads up to "Let's go to work" and after that... hell, they probably wouldn't even introduce Angel 'til about 3 episodes in heh heh.
"Realistically, would Spike stick around after seeing that army? Seriously now."
Yeah, definitely! He even said "Looks like we finally got ourselves a good brawl." He stuck around for Buffy's apocalypse...
"I don't think the possibility that they could beat those demons is out of the question. If you look at the scene closely it's not THAT many."
Yeah, I think it would've been a first wave...
"
Did anyone else see the interview about season 6 by David Fury? He said the gang taking out the Black Thorn would have started a huge war between good and evil that would actually lead to the apocolypse. The show would take place in post-apocalyptic LA. He compared it to Mad Max."
Sounds cool. But who won?
Yeah, I think as well that there's a fence behind them so they may be a way out over that way.
I doubt they'd deal with it right away. You'd get a "Previously on Angel" leads up to "Let's go to work" and after that... hell, they probably wouldn't even introduce Angel 'til about 3 episodes in heh heh.
"Realistically, would Spike stick around after seeing that army? Seriously now.
"Yeah, definitely! He even said "Looks like we finally got ourselves a good brawl." He stuck around for Buffy's apocalypse...
"I don't think the possibility that they could beat those demons is out of the question. If you look at the scene closely it's not THAT many."
Yeah, I think it would've been a first wave...
"
Did anyone else see the interview about season 6 by David Fury? He said the gang taking out the Black Thorn would have started a huge war between good and evil that would actually lead to the apocolypse. The show would take place in post-apocalyptic LA. He compared it to Mad Max."
Sounds cool. But who won?
SolidSnakex
Member
Anyanka said:
The main thing wasn't a large amount of enemies, it was a huge dragon. That thing could just swoop down and take them all out at one time. Although I do think there was a decent amount of enemies also. Especially when you considered the covered the alley from side to side so it'd been hard just to get through that many people coming to you. With the Turok-hans in Buffy they atleast had a wide open space to move around in so they couldn't get overwhelmed by them even if it was a big swarm.
signet, that DeepDiscountDVD is the best place I think. I haven't seen it any cheaper than that.
Hawksley
Member
SolidSnakex said:Well actually he did have a place to go, but I don't think he'd want to stay with Andrew.
Dream-wrecker.
Anyway, yeah. I guess you're all right about Spike. I guess I really wasn't thinking... I just finished watching Buffy 6 on DVD, and that's the assumption I made based on him at that point.
As for the "beatability" of the enemy force, I'm with the whole "it wouldn't be impossible" crowd. They've overcome the odds before. They're heroes, after all! Angel's juiced up on Senior Partner lackey, Spike doesn't stay down, and maybe Illyria will figure she has to avenge Wesley. Gunn is, well, a badass, really. He could tough it out, in my opinion. But really, the game of good vs. evil is a dangerous one if you're just a frail little ol' human. Wesley was hardcore, and look what that old gimp demon did to him. BIG
SolidSnakex
Member
Hawksley said:
I wouldn't really mind him staying with Andrew since they're really funny together. But Spike just seems to find Andrew really annoying because he's always all over Spike.
And it's not really good to base your view of Spike on Season 6 or 7, I don't really consider that the "real" Spike. They made him into someone loveable for all "Spuffy" fans. They had the fangirls so wrapped around Spike's finger that they'd defend the attempted rape on Buffy constantly which was quite strange since Marti, James, and Joss later admitted that the scene was suppose to make people hate Spike, but it made people like him even more because Buffy rejected him again.
Hawksley
Member
I know it's not fair or right. It just happened 'cause it was the most recent Spike in memory. 'Twas an accident.
And James Marsters and Tom Lenk have awesome chemistry. I wished there'd been more opportunities to explore that further in Buffy or Angel. Alas. Maybe we'll get Blondiebear: The Sexy Continues as our next Buffyverse series. Mmm~
And James Marsters and Tom Lenk have awesome chemistry. I wished there'd been more opportunities to explore that further in Buffy or Angel. Alas. Maybe we'll get Blondiebear: The Sexy Continues as our next Buffyverse series. Mmm~
SolidSnakex
Member
It really wouldn't be surprising to see Spike get the next spinoff. It was even talked about before Angel was cancelled this season. It's mainly because Spike became the most popular Buffyverse character ever. He's just incredibly popular and most people contriubuted Angel's rating going up this year being because he was on the show now.
The only problem is that I don't really see what his show would be about. You could see how Angel could have his own show due to him wanting to help other people. Spike really doesn't care about helping other people (unless he likes them) and pretty much has to be forced into doing it.
The only problem is that I don't really see what his show would be about. You could see how Angel could have his own show due to him wanting to help other people. Spike really doesn't care about helping other people (unless he likes them) and pretty much has to be forced into doing it.
"Spike really doesn't care about helping other people (unless he likes them) and pretty much has to be forced into doing it."
I don't know about that. I think that is what he wants people to belive, but deep inside William the Bloody(awful poet) still lurks. He wants to help, he just doesn't want anyone to know he wants to help.
I don't know about that. I think that is what he wants people to belive, but deep inside William the Bloody(awful poet) still lurks. He wants to help, he just doesn't want anyone to know he wants to help.
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