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[SFA_AOK]

They had the fangirls so wrapped around Spike's finger that they'd defend the attempted rape on Buffy constantly which was quite strange since Marti, James, and Joss later admitted that the scene was suppose to make people hate Spike, but it made people like him even more because Buffy rejected him again.

That scene - in fact, the whole build up to it - was poorly done.

EDIT - And I don't care if they couldn't show certain things or had to do things a certain way, if their intent was to turn people against him they should've gone about it differently.

 

[Vlad]

The main thing wasn't a large amount of enemies, it was a huge dragon. That thing could just swoop down and take them all out at one time. Although I do think there was a decent amount of enemies also.

Also, there was at least one demon that looked to be absolutely HUGE in size that was coming in along with the dragon and the group of man-sized demons.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"Spike really doesn't care about helping other people (unless he likes them) and pretty much has to be forced into doing it."

I don't know about that. I think that is what he wants people to belive, but deep inside William the Bloody(awful poet) still lurks. He wants to help, he just doesn't want anyone to know he wants to help.

Yah at times he doesn't seem really bad. Like when Lindsy had him doing some helping, at times he seemed annoyed with it and then other times he seemed to really enjoy it. Although he never really wanted any thing thanks for what he did, he just seemed to want to do it and then leave once he was done. An Illyria/Spike spinoff would make alot of sense as they both seem to have similar ways of thinking. I think it could work pretty well too. And more Amy never hurt anyone. I'd just like to see her back in her cute form over Illyria.

"hat scene - in fact, the whole build up to it - was poorly done.

EDIT - And I don't care if they couldn't show certain things or had to do things a certain way, if their intent was to turn people against him they should've gone about it differently"

I don't think they could've did it any differently other than maybe not make Spike seem so sorry afterwards. They could've made him stay angry at her instead of trying to play it off like he was sorry. But the point still should've got across. No matter how you slice it, trying to rape someone isn't the right thing to do. Some people didn't seem to get that though.

It does make you think though, how different would Season 7 had been if they'd killed the Buffy/Spike relationship in Season 6 like it seemed they wanted to?

 

[signet]

signet, that DeepDiscountDVD is the best place I think. I haven't seen it any cheaper than that.

Cool, it is going to be a few more weeks until I can order them. For that amount of money want to make sure I find the best deal.

 

[DJ Demon J]

As for the "beatability" of the enemy force, I'm with the whole "it wouldn't be impossible" crowd. They've overcome the odds before. They're heroes, after all! Angel's juiced up on Senior Partner lackey, Spike doesn't stay down, and maybe Illyria will figure she has to avenge Wesley. Gunn is, well, a badass, really. He could tough it out, in my opinion. But really, the game of good vs. evil is a dangerous one if you're just a frail little ol' human. Wesley was hardcore, and look what that old gimp demon did to him. BIG

Gunn is definitely dead. Illyria accurately predicted Wesley's death (I assume she's got powers to deduce that sort of thing) and she gave Gunn 10 minutes at best. Angel might survive since he was high on blood. Spike would probably bite it, he's a good fighter, but that's a fuckton of demons. I would assume Illyria would make it after seeing the carnage she performed on that car and sucker-punching that old demon's head off like Gallagher smashing a watermelon.

Your last statement is definitely true in the Buffyverse: the fight is lethal if you are a non-empowered human. The First Slayer warned the scoobies of this at the end of BS4. As talented as Gunn and Wesley were, they're fighting supernatural creatures. Super-strength and speed and all that. One of the things I didn't like throughout Buffy and Angel is that they bring up superpowers only when convenient. For example, in a spoof of Night of the Living Dead on an Angel Season 2 episode, Angel effortlessly kicks off a zombie's head. Why doesn't he do that more often to demons? Or, in (IIRC) the very first episode of Buffy, we see her standing jump 6 feet easily over a wall. Where is that super agility throughout the series? I'm not saying she needs to fly or shoot lasers, but it seems kinda odd not to really show the extent of her supernatural abilities.

Also, I often longed to see a full-on military/technology versus demon fight in Buffy or Angel. No, The Initiative doesn't count. I'm talking tanks and Black Hawks and shit.

 

[SFA_AOK]

But the point still should've got across. No matter how you slice it, trying to rape someone isn't the right thing to do. Some people didn't seem to get that though.

You're right about rape but like I say, there was so much wrong with how it was done, I don't blame people for being confused. I've seen rape scenes in other shows/films and they usually disturb me; I didn't get that from Buffy/Spike. It wasn't just the scene, it was the whole build up. It's the point where Spike is supposed to hit absolute rock bottom.

We've been here before, I'll (try to) leave it there. I haven't seen the scene since I first saw it, I'd actually like to see the ep again before commenting any more but I doubt THAT'S gonna happen.

 

[Vlad]

Your last statement is definitely true in the Buffyverse: the fight is lethal if you are a non-empowered human. The First Slayer warned the scoobies of this at the end of BS4. As talented as Gunn and Wesley were, they're fighting supernatural creatures. Super-strength and speed and all that. One of the things I didn't like throughout Buffy and Angel is that they bring up superpowers only when convenient. For example, in a spoof of Night of the Living Dead on an Angel Season 2 episode, Angel effortlessly kicks off a zombie's head. Why doesn't he do that more often to demons?

While I haven't seen that episode, maybe it's because Zombies are just resurrected dead people, and tend to be more fragile physically than a pure demon.

 

[SolidSnakex]

You're right about rape but like I say, there was so much wrong with how it was done, I don't blame people for being confused. I've seen rape scenes in other shows/films and they usually disturb me; I didn't get that from Buffy/Spike. It wasn't just the scene, it was the whole build up. It's the point where Spike is supposed to hit absolute rock bottom.

We've been here before, I'll (try to) leave it there. I haven't seen the scene since I first saw it, I'd actually like to see the ep again before commenting any more but I doubt THAT'S gonna happen.

I don't think it was meant to be shocking in the same sense of some rape scenes. Mainly because in alot of rape scenes you can see it coming from a mile away so they have to disturb your with how violent it is. With Buffy though you really couldn't see it coming. It was almost like "WTF just happened?". Which I think was the point. More of a surprise than a disturbing scene.

There are other ways they could've handeled it sure. But I do wonder why so many people still felt sorry for Spike after that scene. Even if it wasn't done as well as it could've been, th point was he tried to rape her and people felt more sorry for him than they did toward Buffy.

 

[Anyanka]

That dragon isn't unbeatable. Gunn and Wes took on a big dragon before(off screen) and beat it.

That big monster you can see in the back looks really cool. It looks like it could be a centurian or something. I love the sound of the army. The moaning and groanin is freaky, and it's cool how you can hear it before you see them. That army was cooler and more intimidating than the entire ubie army FE had.

 

[DJ Demon J]

OK, I just finished Angel Season 3 Disc 2, and I think I realized who Connor (the guy who decks Hamilton to help Angel in the Finale) is.....he's Angel's son, right? The only question is, how does he age so fast?

 

[Escape Goat]

Watch the rest of Season 3. You dont want this season spoiled. its too good!

 

[BuddyC]

OK, I just finished Angel Season 3 Disc 2, and I think I realized who Connor (the guy who decks Hamilton to help Angel in the Finale) is.....he's Angel's son, right? The only question is, how does he age so fast?

Keep watching, it's Disc 4/5 where everthing comes together.

Sidenote, the whole of Disc 4 and the first ep or two of Disc 5 are the best 5 episode run on Angel ever. Seriously, Disc 4 is damn near perfect.

 

[Paradox]

Jeph Loeb Spills News, Not Blood,
About Buffy The Animated Series...

An early take on the animated Buffy.
Two weeks back, the news started leaking that something was happening with the animated version of Buffy. A couple of years ago, some work had been done on the concept, with Jeph Loeb, now supervising producer on Smallville and writer of DC's Superman/Batman, in charge.

After the powers that be killed it, word got out revealing that Eric Radomski, of Batman: The Animated Series and Spawn, had been working on the show. Designs by a guy named Eric Wight spread across the web, and it's his work that we're liberally borrowing to illustrate this piece.

And why not? In an almost unheard of but definitely serendipitous event, the creative team has been reassembled. We'll let Loeb explain why.

It took a while for Jeph to get back to us beyond a brief confirmation. Evidently Smallville had started back up just as this story broke, so finding time for a Q & A became a tricky task.

At last we got the time. And so, here's what Jeph Loeb can tell us without calling down the wrath of The Master...in this case, Joss Whedon. Sshhhh...

Fanboy Planet: When did this series get resurrected? Do you have a network interested? Is there a target date?

Jeph Loeb: Like all great Buffy stories, this has to do with resurrection. We needed someone to pull the stake out of our show so we could live again. Fox Television did that and we're very grateful. As to when it appear and where, we're keeping that under wraps right now!

Fanboy Planet: How much of your original team is back on, or are you still working on that?

Jeph Loeb: Everyone came back. It really is wonderful material and we wanted to see it through.


Joyce and Dawn Summers...
It's Buffy Hypertime!
Fanboy Planet: It's been a couple of years, you'd moved on to Smallville. What was your initial reaction when Joss Whedon called?

Jeph Loeb: Actually, it was Chris Buchanan, who runs Mutant Enemy (Joss Whedon's production company -- but you knew that), who called. We just laughed. It had been so long and there had been so many false starts we just agreed that when it was actually animated THEN we'd get excited.

Joss and I didn't see each other until the first recording session. It was like we'd been time warped -- two years later and here we were again!

Fanboy Planet: Are you going to try to juggle work on both shows, or do you leave Young Superman (as our Japanese readers call it) behind?

Jeph Loeb: No, I'm starting the fourth season of Smallville as the Supervising Producer. Most of what I had to do on Buffy Animated was completed before I left. I had spent a year and a half getting her ready -- she just needed to give birth!

Fanboy Planet: What's the take? Is this still a sort of retelling of the missing moments from their high school days, or will this be post-Angel?

Jeph Loeb: It's all Buffy Year One.


Not brooding, just heart-throbbing.
For the fans, we've always seen it as Episode 7.5. Buffy has met Angel. He's this brooding dark romantic character. She doesn't know yet about Angelus or any of that stuff. It's quite a lot of fun being able to tell stories that you know what will happen in the years to come!

Fanboy Planet: How much of the original cast will you have -- and are there any cool new talents doing voices?

Jeph Loeb: Some of that we're still keeping as surprises. Alyson (Willow), Nicholas (Xander) and Tony (Giles) have all taken part -- that much we'll say.

Fanboy Planet: Is there anything you're allowed to tell me that I can't think of right now?

Jeph Loeb: Well, that would be telling now, wouldn't it? All we can say is that there will be more announcements throughout the summer!

Thanks for the time and keep watching for more news!

So there you have it. What can be known at this time. What Jeph didn't mention, but we can still safely extrapolate, is that this Year One includes Dawn, as of course, her very existence must have caused major retroactive continuity in Buffy's life.

We're excited. 2004 looked bad for Whedon fans with the ending of Angel. But now we've got a hot comic series (Astonishing X-Men), a movie in production (Serenity -- the big-screen version of Firefly) and now ...cartoons. You gotta love it.

Now about those Spike TV movies and Ripper...

http://www.fanboyplanet.com/derek/mc-buffyjephloeb.php



Retelling of Season 1/w Dawn = Im there

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I think Joss basically expects us to believe the characters in Angel are all dead. I mean cmon there was a freaking dragon in there!

If the series had continued im sure Buffy and all SiTs would have come to save the day. Since the series Ended we are left to assume they have ALL died.


"There are other ways they could've handeled it sure. But I do wonder why so many people still felt sorry for Spike after that scene. Even if it wasn't done as well as it could've been, th point was he tried to rape her and people felt more sorry for him than they did toward Buffy."


Its Because buffy was so unlikable in the sixth season i think ppl liked spike more, Also I think most ppl like me expected buffy to kick SPikes ass before he even came close to getting on top of her.

The seventh season was steller in the beginning but then SiTs came in and well the horse face girl was scarier than any demon to ever appear on the show. Willow's lesbo slayer friend was really annoying too. Basically the 7th season sucked after the first 5 or so episodes.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Its Because buffy was so unlikable in the sixth season i think ppl liked spike more, Also I think most ppl like me expected buffy to kick SPikes ass before he even came close to getting on top of her.

The seventh season was steller in the beginning but then SiTs came in and well the horse face girl was scarier than any demon to ever appear on the show. Willow's lesbo slayer friend was really annoying too. Basically the 7th season sucked after the first 5 or so episodes.

Yah I agree that they made her unlikable for whatever reason. I think the reason Buffy didn't just kick the crap out of him was because she didn't expect him to try to rape her. She really seem to be caught completely off gaurd by the situtation.

Speaking of her being miserable, that's another thing that was really unexplained about Season 6-7. They just made her miserable and hinted at her being still somewhat dead with the whole Spike being able to hit her thing but they never really went into it like they should've.

I do think even after the SiTs joined that from an episode to episode basis the show still rocked. THe story arc basically fell apart, but the episodes still rocked on their own. There were some really strong episodes that season, but they didn't fit together like they should've.

To Angel for a minute, if you want more proof that the WB isn't giving the real reasons for Angels cancellation, here you go:

"Get this: of the top seven WB shows, Angel was the ONLY ONE that posted a gain this year. Its overall ratings were up 8%. That’s not super-huge, but it’s fairly significant for a show in its fifth season. The other six all dove, some precipitously. 7th Heaven dropped 15%. Smallville plummeted by a stunning 25% from last year. Everwood and Charmed both dropped 4%. Reba lost 11%. And critical darling Gilmore Girls went down 21%. For an even more shocking number, the final episode this year posted almost 1.5 million more viewers than normal; stunningly the numbers for the finale even beat the numbers for the finale of its parent show, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Clearly, something was going on here."

http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=5041

So essentially Joss went and did exactly what he was told to do to make the show gain ratings, the show then gains rating and they still can it. While every other show drops in ratings, some at significant margins and they stay.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I just Know Aaron Spelling had somehting to do with Angel's demise. He expected his crappy ass vampire series to get picked up so he wanted Angel out of the way. bah stupid WB i dont even wanna think about the way Angel Got cancelled, unlike Buffy Angel actually had alot of potential to keep growing, the chracters were not getting stale the main Arc was still interesting and each season felt fresh.


FUCK The WB!

 

[fart]

gilmore girls was quite good this season for what it's worth. wb's viewers are

Spoiler

all teenage girls with hard ons for tom welling

very fickle. the show got a lot of press after the cancellation was announced too.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's even more annoying when you consider the Joss changed up this season just to fit into their guidelines. He dropped the story driven style from Season 4 in favor of a more episodic style that Season 5 had. All to make the WB happy by getting the show better ratings. Then it gets better ratings, averages a finale higher than Buffys and they still can it.

It wouldn't surprise me if Spelling had something to do with it. And his show didn't even make it on..That's how bad it was. If it's not that then it's because they're still bitter because Joss took Buffy to UPN. It's definetly not the reasons the WB has given so far.

 

[BojTrek]

I think Spike was able to hit Buffy because...

"you always hurt the ones you love"... that is how I took it, he really did love her...

 

[Diablos]

Okay, I just got done watching the series finale of Angel and I had a few questions about it. Since no one had created the Wheddon thread yet I took it upon myself to do so. So, having said that we'll move right along...

I'll use spoiler tags just because they are fairly big events and would hate to spoil them for long time fans who haven't seen it yet.

Spoiler

What is up with Wheddon lately? He jams a death scene in both his finales and expects the audience to care. Anya dies in a 2 second clip and shes not seen again! Wesley dies and we get a nice Fred/Wesley scene but no one else really seems to care. That might be because by the time they find out the friggin episode ends! It just ends. Thats it. The End. Stick a fork in it we're done. Someone please tell me theres a part two to this episode!

So Team Angel take down the Black Thorn group. Whoop dee doo. Where did Lorne go? What happened to the Shan Shu prophecy? What happens to Spike after they kill those hoarding demons? It didn't feel like a series finale at all like Buffy. I was really disappointed. Plus, no Cordelia or Fred really made the cast feel stale.

Dude this one time I was watching Angel and at the end

Spoiler

Aeris dies

 

[SFA_AOK]

I thought Angel's cancellation was to do with the figures that repeats got?

 

[DJ Demon J]

Retelling of Season 1/w Dawn = Im there

Pfft. Dawn sucks. I remember someone calling Riley the worst Buffyverse character ever, but I disagree. Riley had a really interesting character arc which wasn't fully explored (the whole vampire whore thing and the depths he sunk to as Buffy ignored him). Dawn, OTOH, is patently boring and was a useless plot device for Season 5.

 

[Paradox]

Yeah.. I hated Dawn the first time I saw Season 5/6. But after rewatching them shes not so bad.

 

[Anyanka]

I want the animated series just because I want new material. Synder being back will be cool.

 

[Tabris]

This thread is just depressing now

Make a Spike spin-off already, or at least announce you're trying to make one.

Who cares about comics? the answer to that is no one! Start making shows again Joss.

 

[BuddyC]

This thread is just depressing now

Make a Spike spin-off already, or at least announce you're trying to make one.

Who cares about comics? the answer to that is no one! Start making shows again Joss.

but ANIMATED!

besides, he's busy with Serenity right now...

mmmm, Serenity...

 

[Tabris]

Yeah, who cares about animated buffy? I'll tell you, no one!

...but Serenity makes up for no Joss Whedon shows. That is like my most anticipated movie ever!

Still depressing having no more buffyverse for at least 1 years

 

[FnordChan]

Yeah, who cares about animated buffy?

"We care!"

FnordChan: The Animated Series

 

[Escape Goat]

Uhura is hawt!

 

[SolidSnakex]

Just watched the unaired episode of Buffy again. Seriously if you haven't seen it you should check it out (you all should know where to get it by now). It's really amazing just how much the show changed even though it worked basically off the same storyline. It still had alot of the same scenes from the real first episode. Xander finding Buffy's stake, Buffy finding the kids body in the locker room, her getting pissed off when Giles tries to introduce her to more slaying, Willow going to the back of the Bronze with that vampire ect. But it's just done so much better in the real version.

Original Willow:

Original Scoobies:

Original Really Really Bad dusting effect:

And maybe the most atrocious and scary thing of all about the unaired episode, the logo:

The staking is just really bad though. It might not look bad in the screen but when you see it and how it all takes place, it just happens so slow and looks worse and worse as the scene evolves. It takes awhile to even happen too which is a big problem.

But you do still get to see cute young Buffy which is a plus:

 

[Escape Goat]

the unaired pilot is horrible. Alyson Hannigan plays a Willow a billion times better than that girl.

 

[Tabris]

I watched the Angel unaired "pilot" (it was more like a trailer for network executives).

It was kinda neat. Glad they didn't actually have that monologue in the actual pilot. That would have sucked. I liked how they revealed the story of Angel through Doyle during that episode.

 

[DJ Demon J]

Just watched the unaired Buffy pilot, pretty interesting. I actually would have liked to see how Fat Willow would have worked with the series. Fat people are generally avoided except for cliche characters (funny guy/gal, obnoxious guy/gal) in TV shows, the whole teen angst thing would be interesting to see with a fat actress. And hey, they could always play the losing weight angle for an easy character arc.

 

[Doth Togo]

Just watched the unaired Buffy pilot, pretty interesting. I actually would have liked to see how Fat Willow would have worked with the series. Fat people are generally avoided except for cliche characters (funny guy/gal, obnoxious guy/gal) in TV shows, the whole teen angst thing would be interesting to see with a fat actress. And hey, they could always play the losing weight angle for an easy character arc.

LOL @ the Fat Willow. I see the actress Patty McFatty paid another visit....

 

[DJ Demon J]

Also, big lollerskates to Darla getting owned by a cross.

 

[Gribbix]

The official Serenity website is up.

 

[Paradox]

thx for the heads up Gribbix.

 

[Matrix]

Angdl Season 4 dvd has been announced

from tvshowsondvd.com... Box art can be found at site.....
Earlier today we reported on Amazon.com's pre-order listing for Angel - Season 4 on DVD. At the time we mentioned that the "information has not been verified with Fox".

Well, that's changed! Fox formally announced the release just at the close of business today. They verified the Sept. 7th release date we reported, and gave additional information of course.

With a 6-DVD set presented in 1.78:1 widescreen aspect ration, expect a list price of $59.98 in the USA and CA$89.98 in Canada. English Dolby 2.0 sound is available, as is a French soundtrack as well. Look for subtitles in English and Spanish. Here's the cover art:



EXTRAS! EXTRAS! There are a number of supplements available on this set, and we've got 'em for you on this disc-by-disc content breakdown:

* Disc 1 - Deep Down; Ground State; The House Always Wins With Optional Commentary by David Fury and Andy Hallett; Slouching Toward Bethlehem
* Disc 2 - Supersymmetry; Spin the Bottle with optional commentary by Joss Whedon and Alexis Denisof; Apocalypse, Nowish with optional commentary by Vern Gillum and Steven DeKnight; Habeas Corpses; Featurette - Angel and the Apocalypse
* Disc 3 - Long Day's Journey; Awakening; Soulless
* Disc 4 - Calvary; Salvage; Release; Orpheus with optional commentary by Terrence O'Hara and Jeffrey Bell
* Disc 5 - Players; Inside Out with Optional Commentary By Steven DeKnight; Shiny Happy People; The Magic Bullet with optional commentary by Jeffrey Bell
* Disc 6 - Sacrifice; Peace Out; Home with optional commentary by Tim Minear; Featurettes: Prophecies: Season 4 Overview; Unplugged: Season 4 Outtakes; Last Looks: The Hyperion Hotel; Fatal Beauty and the Beast; Malice in Wonderland: Wolfram & Hart

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well it looks like the Ripper spinoff/movie is still a good possiblity:

"We still talk about [Ripper]. Joss came over to Britain to see the shows I was doing, Pirates of Penzance and Peter Pan, and Alyson’s When Harry Met Sally, so we all went out together a couple of times. He has an idea that I thought would work very well. It means the project is still alive - still something that Joss wants to do. He wants to make a two-hour TV movie."

So it looks like Aly's going to be in it too. The show she was doing with NBC didn't get picked up so she's free to do whatever she wants.

He also talks about doing the voice for Giles in the upcoming animated series.

http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=5085

I wonder how it's going to look? There were some early concept arts (although I don't know if they were really) where they look like something from an early morning kids show. And I really hope that's not the path this show is going down. I'd prefer to it look something more like this, but I doubt it will.

 

[Paradox]

Angels expression = funny as hell


Oh and this releases a day before my Bday... I get my favorite Angel season for a bday present! im so hyped

 

[Tabris]

Yeah, I think I concur with it being my favorite Angel season also. Well, I dunno, S4 and S5 are so close. Followed closely by S1.

Kind of funny that S2 and S3 are the weakest, it's a total opposite from Buffy.

 

[Escape Goat]

Best seasons in descending order

Angel

3, 4, 2, 5, 1

Buffy

5, 3, 2, 1, 4, 6, 7

 

[Tabris]

See, Season 3 as a whole was kinda weak (compared to the other seasons, still some of the best TV ever) imo. Weak intro, weak ending.

Now episode by episode, it had some of the greatest cliffhangers and moments in the entire season. I just can't let that redeem the rest of the season, which was great, but not as great as S4 and S5.

I would order it like this:

Angel
S4, S5 > S1, S3 > S2

Buffy
S2, S3 > S5 > S7 > S6 > S1 > S4

 

[Priz]

For Florida Whedon fans:

More importantly for me, the cute-as-a-button Jewel Staite ("Kaylee" from Firefly/Serenity) will be there. I can't wait to have her autograph my Firefly DVDs, and hopefully hear her comment on when Serenity is due to start shooting. If she's not charging an arm and a leg I might get my picture with her as well

If any non-psycho GA'ers that I know want to grab a drink at the hotel, I should be around...

For the love of god, PLEASE take a few Jewel Staite pics (as long as there's no charge). Screw the rest of the women of Firefly, she was my favorite by far. mmm... so incredibly cute...

 

[Paradox]

Angel = 4 > 2 > 3 > 5 > 1

Buffy = 2 > 3 > 5 > 4 > 6 > 1 > 7

 

[Escape Goat]

I just watched "Time Bomb" and noticed that Jamie Bergman, Boreanaz's wife, played the mother of the holy child. She also played BJ Cummings in Son of the Beach.

 

[Escape Goat]

I was watching "Five by Five" earlier and forgot how hilarious it was to see Faith dancing at the club, knocking random people out on the dance floor and kicking the crap out of them. LOL

 

[SolidSnakex]

That reminds me of another thing they dropped in the final 2 seasons, the humor. They seemed to be trying to capture how dark Angel was but missed that Angel still managed to have a dark sense of humor. Buffy went from being light hearted to completely dark within a season. Even Spike who'd always had a sense of humor was too serious, same for Xander. Anya was the only real comedy peice and she never got enough screen time as it was.

 

[Escape Goat]

This thread has been buried for too long so I'll pose a question.

If evil Vampire Willow was somehow resurrected post hetero-phase Willow, would they get it on?

 

[Paradox]

Damn right they would