Sweeney Tom
Banned
Meltzer I think rated that 4.5 stars, but let's be honest, if you give any non-New Japan match from the last 6 months that rating or a 5 you're either being super-generous or suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
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June Wrasslin' |OT| Layin' the law, once again, prepare for war. C! Z! W!
- Thread starter British Monsoon
- Start date
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
Maybe on a 4.5-5 point scale it's a 4.5.
Really, so no match in America has been that good. What about Zayn vs Cesaro 2, Bryan vs Bray, Bryan vs Triple H, Bryan vs Batista vs Orton, Charlotte vs Natalya or Evolution vs Shield extreme rules are not good enough?
That Cena match was great. It kinda helps prove Stro's theory about how infuriating John Cena really is. He can have great matches with almost everyone but doesn't most of the time. Part of it is how they are laid out, a great deal of it is the WWE afraid to ever have him lose "the big one" clean.
First half or so of the LSM was boring as fuck. Then it got crazy. Ending should deduct some points, not because Cena won, but because of how Cena won. It's the same finish he's used in just about every gimmick match since the LMS with Youmanga.
I would argue Wyatt is close to being buried. He went from looking like a world beater against Bryan and Shield, to clearly besting Cena for most of the match at WM, to the Family being turned into bumbling fools, to straight up needing help to beat an Uso. The only match he beat Cena was after Cena had laid out all three of them and it was in fact the Cenation that beat Cena, not Bray. His overness hasn't been hit, but his booking is pretty close to burial.
I would argue Wyatt is close to being buried. He went from looking like a world beater against Bryan and Shield, to clearly besting Cena for most of the match at WM, to the Family being turned into bumbling fools, to straight up needing help to beat an Uso. The only match he beat Cena was after Cena had laid out all three of them and it was in fact the Cenation that beat Cena, not Bray. His overness hasn't been hit, but his booking is pretty close to burial.
Jimmy King
Member
I agree with everything except the last two.
I'm not even into the star rating bullshit but that Cena/Bray match was not 4.5. It was fun though in the good way, unlike their cage match at ER which was fun in a bad way.
He'd still be fine if not for that middle match. I enjoyed the crap out of it but that could be a career killer.
Bray spent the whole period after WM being destroyed along with The Family. It's not just the PPVs, it's also how they would change the focus of the storyline frequently, how Cena would go from "I'm afraid" to "I'm never afraid" to "I never faced anyone like this before" to "no pearl in his pants", etc.; sometimes on the same show.
They never decided what the feud was about. Cena would do something and then Bray would have o come up with something else over the top because Cena had just no-sold the last over the top thing. In the end, it became about defending Jerry Lawler because, fuck it, why not? Bray got a demon-child with creepy voice; he played mind games; he had a legion of children with sheep masks; he had multiple handicapped matches; but in the end, he went too far because he threatened the colour comentator whose gimmick is to be a horny creepy old man.
I think the Wyatts are over only because the audience that actually cares about the product and is bothered to chant stuff during the shows have legit heat for Cena, so Bray, the former world eater, acquired underdog status against the company's top heel.
They never decided what the feud was about. Cena would do something and then Bray would have o come up with something else over the top because Cena had just no-sold the last over the top thing. In the end, it became about defending Jerry Lawler because, fuck it, why not? Bray got a demon-child with creepy voice; he played mind games; he had a legion of children with sheep masks; he had multiple handicapped matches; but in the end, he went too far because he threatened the colour comentator whose gimmick is to be a horny creepy old man.
I think the Wyatts are over only because the audience that actually cares about the product and is bothered to chant stuff during the shows have legit heat for Cena, so Bray, the former world eater, acquired underdog status against the company's top heel.
Macho Madness
Member
Ziggler gets a few small wins here and there against even lower jobbers just to keep him just a little over with the crowd. Any time he goes against someone higher than him or on his level (like Del Rio), he loses
It absolutely sucks that Bryan spent like 3 months putting Bray over and making him look like a legit main eventer just for the company to throw it all away to try and make Cena look good.
Macho Madness
Member
Hey, I remember some people getting real mad the night after the Royal Rumble when Bryan lost clean. Bryan came out and cut a promo like losing to Bray never happened. They've never mentioned it again. In WWE canon, it never happened.
Random theory:
Triple H has a high degree of creative freedom when it comes to his own feuds; so he was able to do the slow build thing between himself and Bryan past year.
Now he is again having freedom to play around with The Shield and either he told people or not, he knew that the Evolution angle would somehow go through The Shield disbanding and Rollins turn is just another step in another slow build thing that will pay off way down the line.
His antidote to stuff leaking might simply be not telling anyone anything.
Triple H has a high degree of creative freedom when it comes to his own feuds; so he was able to do the slow build thing between himself and Bryan past year.
Now he is again having freedom to play around with The Shield and either he told people or not, he knew that the Evolution angle would somehow go through The Shield disbanding and Rollins turn is just another step in another slow build thing that will pay off way down the line.
His antidote to stuff leaking might simply be not telling anyone anything.
Macho Madness
Member
Vince still has final say.
Jimmy King
Member
I can't blame them since only a couple hours after his match it was pretty clear they needed to put him in the main event of Mania. I wouldn't go so far as to say they act like it never happened though. Why would it be brought up past then?
HerbertFish
Member
LOL at this shit.
Top 5 matches for WWE so far this year:
1. Shield vs The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber
2. Bryan vs HHH, WM 30
3. Zayn vs Breeze, NXT Takeover
4. Evolution vs Shield, Extreme Rules
5. Zayn vs Cesaro, NXT Arrival
All could be a case for a 4.5.
Maybe he says yes much easier when it comes to HHH's own feuds.
There was that, but there was also the basic fact that a heel had just beaten a face, clean. If people are happy after that, then you have to redefine who your faces and heels are.
At the time I was saying they should be bringing up this victory to hype for the Wyatt vs Cena WM match. But then, just like a lot of people, I actually thought Wyatt was going over, and then he would have come out of WM a beast; having just bested Cena and Bryan.
Now it makes sense to have hidden that victory, because it would have been an even worse version of Cena destroying Kane in 5 minutes after he (in kayfabe) is the reason why Bryan had to go to surgery.
Holy shit, this Bennett/Tanahashi match is soooooo slow. It started out okay, but then just fell into a huge lull.
Maria is a little too involved too. She kisses both Tanahashi and Todd Sinclair. Haha.
2.5 match in the end. Some good spots here and there, but it never got into a good flow.
Maria is a little too involved too. She kisses both Tanahashi and Todd Sinclair. Haha.
2.5 match in the end. Some good spots here and there, but it never got into a good flow.
What dream? Rusev's been the poster boy for that CenaChallengerGraph.jpeg ever since he got called up out of NXT after very few matches. If he's lucky, he'll lose unspectacularly and wind up the next Big Show/Kane joke giant jobber a few months later. If he's not, he'll be Esse Rios to Lana's Lita.
Enjoyed the match, but 4.5's too high. That puts it above DBry-HHH, Zayn-Cesaro, Charlotte-Natalya, Bryan-Wyatt, Breeze-Zayn on his list and ties it for the best WWE matches of the year alongside Mania 30's main event and Shield-Evolution I.
Canon got hijacked that night. More to the point, Bryan doesn't have the same habit of bouncing back from brutal matches within the next 24 hours like nothing happened and making the entire thing seem like a joke.
Macho Madness
Member
I was reading some people who were legit pissed Bryan came out of that feud for the better than Wyatt did. "Bryan doesn't care he lost the very next day!"
I rolled my eyes too, but there were some pissed.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It's still great. I've watched it a few times.
Hey dudes, who's waking up at 4am to watch the New Japan BOSJ Finals? This is probably the one chance I'll have to do something like this for a looooong time (wife, daughter, and in-laws off on a one-week vacation without me), so I'm in despite not watching the other shows in the tournament.
How has it compared to last year's? Any must-see matches so far? I know there have been a couple of injuries. I also remember a lot of buzz and praise for last year's.
How has it compared to last year's? Any must-see matches so far? I know there have been a couple of injuries. I also remember a lot of buzz and praise for last year's.
It was also a very unique context where smarks were being legit marks by buying into the hole "WWE hates D-Bry and is burying him" storyline. People were pissed that Bryan was even in that feud to begin with while the title picture was Orton / Cena and, later that night, Batista.
I mean, people know it's scripted, they know the results are decided by someone, you *can* create heat in a "vs the boss" storyline by making someone lose clean, because it blurs the line between fiction and reality once "losing clean" means "losing due to to forces backstage". Reality Era and all that.
Everything that made people angry at WWE was a legit way to get heat in order for Bryan to get the title at the end. But again, that only worked because of how unique the context was. It's not something you can just make it happen. Like, Ziggler is not being able to sell that WWE hates him with no good reason and so when his losses blurry the line it doesn't matter, because he looks like a loser both in kayfabe and out of it.
I mean, people know it's scripted, they know the results are decided by someone, you *can* create heat in a "vs the boss" storyline by making someone lose clean, because it blurs the line between fiction and reality once "losing clean" means "losing due to to forces backstage". Reality Era and all that.
Everything that made people angry at WWE was a legit way to get heat in order for Bryan to get the title at the end. But again, that only worked because of how unique the context was. It's not something you can just make it happen. Like, Ziggler is not being able to sell that WWE hates him with no good reason and so when his losses blurry the line it doesn't matter, because he looks like a loser both in kayfabe and out of it.
Coolest wrestling shit in 2014 so far:
-AJ Styles returning to ROH
-Bray's entrance at Mania 30
-HHH's entrance at Mania 30
-ROH/NJPW shows
-Bryan's Mania moment
-Ishii's streak of great matches
-Chikara's rebirth
What else? Anything from Dragon Gate? 'Cause nothing stands out from TNA.
-AJ Styles returning to ROH
-Bray's entrance at Mania 30
-HHH's entrance at Mania 30
-ROH/NJPW shows
-Bryan's Mania moment
-Ishii's streak of great matches
-Chikara's rebirth
What else? Anything from Dragon Gate? 'Cause nothing stands out from TNA.
Macho Madness
Member
- Rollins crossbody from the seats at Extreme Rules
- Flying headbutt off the forklift.
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
The debut entrance of the Menagerie.
3.5 match for me. I don't like when singles matches have a lot of time spent with other guys taking part in the match. Stone Cold vs Bret Hart I quit match would not have been the same if you had 10 guys interfering for half of the match time.
Jimmy King
Member
Burying is used more as a relative term than its actual definition. Was Bryan being buried? No. Was he being held down? Yes. That was all legit. There was no grand scheme for Bryan to get a pay off, it was all just dumb stuff that turned into amazing once they finally committed.
Macho Madness
Member
Yep. Bryan was being pushed, in a sense he was going to have a match with Sheamus at Wrestlemania, and probably win. But was he being pushed in the way the audience wanted? Hell no. That was the problem. The audience saw him on a different level than his push, and that caused them to change.
FallingEdge
Member
I'm debating about getting the show. Card seems a bit weak.
Have you watched Dragon Gate Dead or Alive 2014? Might be the best show this year.
Could you shoot me a link where I can watch it? Seriously. This is my week to catch up on all the good shit I've missed. I'll pay for it on ustream or wherever it's located. Would appreciate it, FallingEdge!
About to start the Cole vs. Liger match from War of the Worlds. Holy cow, still 45 minutes left in the show. @_@ This should be interesting.
dream
Member
Mine is a two-parter:
-Wrestling fans noticing that Dave Bautista was getting booed, and that "boo" starts with B, and that "Batista" starts with B as well, allowing them to come up with the name of "Bootista," then jerking each other off about how funny they are, thus highlighting what unclever, infantile cunts wrestling fans can be.
-Wrestling fans seeing Dave Bautista wearing blue ring gear and realizing that "blue" starts with B AND has the happy side effect of rhyming with "boo," allowing them to come up with the name of "Bluetista," then jerking each other off about how funny they are, thus highlighting what unclever, infantile cunts wrestling fans can be.
-Wrestling fans noticing that Dave Bautista was getting booed, and that "boo" starts with B, and that "Batista" starts with B as well, allowing them to come up with the name of "Bootista," then jerking each other off about how funny they are, thus highlighting what unclever, infantile cunts wrestling fans can be.
-Wrestling fans seeing Dave Bautista wearing blue ring gear and realizing that "blue" starts with B AND has the happy side effect of rhyming with "boo," allowing them to come up with the name of "Bluetista," then jerking each other off about how funny they are, thus highlighting what unclever, infantile cunts wrestling fans can be.
FallingEdge
Member
I'm looking for it but in the mean time, watch this match Taiji Ishimori (c) Vs. Daisuke Harada (NOAH) .
I'll check it out after I get through War of the Worlds.
LOL @ Cole with a rope break with his teeth.
You can tell WWE wanted Bryan to be an upper mid card guy that is legit that could challenge main event guys and make them look good ala Jericho. The problem is with the way they were going about it. The Rock put Jericho over through treating him like a ME and feuding with him and then Stone Cold was willing to put him over in the feud for undisputed champ. Chris Jericho came out of the attitude era as being legit for the rest of his wrestling career because of it. Just recently they were trying to get Jericho to come back and put someone over. With Bryan they put the secondary belt on him which was like an IC+ edition and then tried to job him to the guys they wanted to ME like Sheamus in that fucking stupid squash match that was meant to make Sheamus look like a beast and instead back fired. The WWE can't have Cena put anyone over in a feud because he isn't on the level of Rock or Stone Cold who could lose money feuds and still sell tons of merch. And that's because Cena's fan base is mainly kids who love his super man booking. Vince knows this and that is the reason why Cena had to get the win back after losing to the Rock clean.
I think after Cena Triple H will try to do the ME scene like the AE, but even make the ME bigger than it was then. The AE had a lot of guys that could carry the belt unlike now where if Cena is hurt they have to rush him back or in this situation where they want Bryan to come back early because they have no one else. Used to be that you could have Stone Cold go down and then you had a whole bunch of guys that could step in and carry the money feuds. Now they can't take guys from the mid card and plug them in and have people believe they have a chance.
The following three appearances have retroactively made everything shitty.
But I will never forget the excitement we felt for those five minutes.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I hate you spider for getting me into best coast