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Kadokawa confirms Sony sent an acquisition letter

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CliffyB's Cock Holster
I'm not saying you're wrong here, but I think the primary function of this deal is FromSoftware, despite people (not you) trying to make it more about anime and manga (we'll get to that).

I think SIE has had FromSoftware on its radar probably since Dark Souls was successful, but Kadokawa bought them in 2014. They missed the mark (and they'd miss it again in 2014 with Mojang). It was a rough time for Sony because the PS3 had not been successful. They weren't exactly flush with cash at the time. In April of 2014, Sony had sold its entire Square Enix share.

Sony bought shares of Kadokawa in 2021, but they bought 14% of FromSoftware in 2022. And it was SIE who bought the shares of FromSoftware.

I don't want to minimize the anime and manga, but there are other companies Sony could buy for this with stronger IP. It seems clear to me that it is a plus for Sony but what they want is Elden Ring and FromSoftware.

The capital alliance formed in 2021 was a precursor to this acquisition, which should potentially put our eyes on CyberAgent in terms of Sony wanting to expand into mobile.

I can't disagree with your logic, and I certainly don't know enough about the options available to them in terms of other potential acquisitions in the Manga/Anime space, but in the end IP is IP. There really is no meaningful difference between, say, Elden Ring and any other IP that Kadokawa owns, beyond the directness in which that can be employed to create "value".

I think, you're probably correct about FROM being much more significant as an element than I gave it credit for being. The mistake I made was in not factoring in Miyazaki's value in addition to the properties at FROM developed under his tenure.

I'd offer you by way of example/explanation, how they are treating Kojima. Hideo Kojima these days is a much a brand in himself as anything he's involved in making. Which is why they are rolling out the proverbial red carpet for him on Physint. Transmedia is important because it has multiple points of monetization, the games, the movies, the streaming content, etc. etc. And to tie that all up, a "creator" figure is very useful.

Long story short, I still think its mainly about transmedia and filling out their vertical integration stack, but I think I did underestimate the value of getting a new development superstar in Miyazaki "into the family".

I have to be honest too, and say that if I was running Sony I'd be investing massively across Asia purely to avoid the culture-war politicization that's been hurting business for awhile now. Since COVID, the plain truth is that Western dev has been a shit-show. Its gotten bloated and unproductive, and thank to divisive rhetoric being embedded in the product, its not performing either.
 
...Also (an aside), I saw Idas and some others mentioning regulators might object to Sony making Elden Ring a PS console exclusive? There's no basis for that, for three reasons:

1: Xbox console sales are dying globally due to bad market decisions from Microsoft, considering they get at least 95% of the same games as PlayStation aside most 1P titles and some 3P exclusives​
2: Elden Ring has nowhere near 51% of the RPG market share (whether all RPGs combined, or just WRPGs or just JRPGs) in terms of sales revenue, and:​
3: Both the CMA and EC already stated that Microsoft foreclosing COD on PlayStation IN ITS ENTIRETY, was perfectly fine with them. The same COD whose recent release just saw 82% of the console sales on PS4/PS5!!​

So considering those three points, not only would regulators not give two shits about Sony acquiring Kadokawa (outside of potentially Famitsu and Nico Nico, both of which could be spun off & sold to another company if needed), but they also would have zero objections to Sony removing Elden Ring from Xbox altogether, given as an IP it's still quite smaller than COD overall.

It's like people forgot about point #3 because they knew it'd be inconvenient for them to argue the exact scenario we might end up seeing happen with Sony & Kadokawa. But even with all that said, I personally think Sony & SIE are going to keep Elden Ring & any sequels on Xbox, and might even try getting the IP on Nintendo hardware too. And I don't think they're going to go for timed PS exclusivity either: it'll be Day 1 on all supported platforms.

There's really no net gain in them to make that IP exclusive. OTOH, they can keep IP like King's Field and Demon's Souls exclusive to their own consoles and (if it happens) PC launcher, because those are IP that have only ever been on Sony systems to begin with, in their entirety. Same technically goes for Bloodborne. Some people might get miffed about that but all the same, there's already precedent of platform exclusivity with those IP and compared to Elden Ring, they're much smaller.

I also think if SIE do actually do a PC launcher, any IP they've already put on Steam, EGS, GOG etc. will have future installments release there, because audiences are already there for them on PC. So games like Horizon, God of War, Spiderman etc. I don't think SIE are going to suddenly make PC-exclusive to their own launcher. But it could also be a reason why games like GT7 and Demon's Souls Remake haven't been ported to PC yet; maybe they're saving those for their own launcher exclusively.

SIE have to think about any launcher as a long-term proposition and ideally it shouldn't pose much a threat to their own console adoption rates for a good while. If the current PC strategy is what it is, then I guess at most simply only take it that far and no further. As in, they don't have to remove games like Horizon or God of War from Steam, but at the very least maintain a 1.5-2 year gap between console to PC, and if they're going to do Day 1 for them on PC, limit it to their own launcher. Meanwhile stuff like whatever ND's new IP is, or Cory Balrog's next game, they should seriously consider keeping them exclusive to their own launcher when talking PC. Same with select GAAS titles, and most of the smaller AA 1P titles that might ever eventually get ports and don't already have an audience on other storefronts (Astro Bot, for example).

People don't want to admit it but even with PC storefronts like Steam exclusivity is a big factor to why they've grown so big; Valve doesn't release ANY of their own games to other storefronts or consoles and they seem to be doing more than well. So at worst, if SIE did the same with some of their own titles, they simply don't grow that much on PC because their launcher doesn't grow. Even then, they still have their actual console to fall back on where those same games can see massive success, and with both the console and storefront, SIE maintain tight vertical control.
 

Ebrietas

Member
...Also (an aside), I saw Idas and some others mentioning regulators might object to Sony making Elden Ring a PS console exclusive? There's no basis for that, for three reasons:

1: Xbox console sales are dying globally due to bad market decisions from Microsoft, considering they get at least 95% of the same games as PlayStation aside most 1P titles and some 3P exclusives​
2: Elden Ring has nowhere near 51% of the RPG market share (whether all RPGs combined, or just WRPGs or just JRPGs) in terms of sales revenue, and:​
3: Both the CMA and EC already stated that Microsoft foreclosing COD on PlayStation IN ITS ENTIRETY, was perfectly fine with them. The same COD whose recent release just saw 82% of the console sales on PS4/PS5!!​

So considering those three points, not only would regulators not give two shits about Sony acquiring Kadokawa (outside of potentially Famitsu and Nico Nico, both of which could be spun off & sold to another company if needed), but they also would have zero objections to Sony removing Elden Ring from Xbox altogether, given as an IP it's still quite smaller than COD overall.

It's like people forgot about point #3 because they knew it'd be inconvenient for them to argue the exact scenario we might end up seeing happen with Sony & Kadokawa. But even with all that said, I personally think Sony & SIE are going to keep Elden Ring & any sequels on Xbox, and might even try getting the IP on Nintendo hardware too. And I don't think they're going to go for timed PS exclusivity either: it'll be Day 1 on all supported platforms.

There's really no net gain in them to make that IP exclusive. OTOH, they can keep IP like King's Field and Demon's Souls exclusive to their own consoles and (if it happens) PC launcher, because those are IP that have only ever been on Sony systems to begin with, in their entirety. Same technically goes for Bloodborne. Some people might get miffed about that but all the same, there's already precedent of platform exclusivity with those IP and compared to Elden Ring, they're much smaller.

I also think if SIE do actually do a PC launcher, any IP they've already put on Steam, EGS, GOG etc. will have future installments release there, because audiences are already there for them on PC. So games like Horizon, God of War, Spiderman etc. I don't think SIE are going to suddenly make PC-exclusive to their own launcher. But it could also be a reason why games like GT7 and Demon's Souls Remake haven't been ported to PC yet; maybe they're saving those for their own launcher exclusively.

SIE have to think about any launcher as a long-term proposition and ideally it shouldn't pose much a threat to their own console adoption rates for a good while. If the current PC strategy is what it is, then I guess at most simply only take it that far and no further. As in, they don't have to remove games like Horizon or God of War from Steam, but at the very least maintain a 1.5-2 year gap between console to PC, and if they're going to do Day 1 for them on PC, limit it to their own launcher. Meanwhile stuff like whatever ND's new IP is, or Cory Balrog's next game, they should seriously consider keeping them exclusive to their own launcher when talking PC. Same with select GAAS titles, and most of the smaller AA 1P titles that might ever eventually get ports and don't already have an audience on other storefronts (Astro Bot, for example).

People don't want to admit it but even with PC storefronts like Steam exclusivity is a big factor to why they've grown so big; Valve doesn't release ANY of their own games to other storefronts or consoles and they seem to be doing more than well. So at worst, if SIE did the same with some of their own titles, they simply don't grow that much on PC because their launcher doesn't grow. Even then, they still have their actual console to fall back on where those same games can see massive success, and with both the console and storefront, SIE maintain tight vertical control.
Sony needs to get it out of their heads that the only avenue for growth is by putting their games on competing platforms. That's loser mentality and will lead them down the same road as MS. They need to focus on growing PS itself. That means giving people more incentive to buy their hardware. Which means focusing on exclusives (first party and third party). Nintendo and Valve do not bring their games to other platforms and they have no problem continuing to grow their businesses. The money is in the platform, not the so much the games themselves.

A PC storefront with exclusive first party games will never work either. Steam is too entrenched in PC gaming now, which for all practical purposes is now a closed platform for Valve and it's their territory (and who are also releasing actual console devices like the steam deck). If this were at all realistic then ask yourself why MS hasn't tried leveraging their own windows store, which is built into the OS and requires no extra download, for the same purpose instead of throwing everything on Steam as they currently do. With all the content they now own between Bethesda and ABK, they have FAR more leverage than Sony, with only a couple of FROM games in their portfolio, to try to force people off of Steam. MS would LOVE to have all PC gaming revenue go to them instead of Valve. But even they don't think they would be successful trying that. So what hope would Sony have?

The fact that after all of this PC porting nonsense Sony has been doing, DeS, BB, and GT7 (the games with the highest sales potential on PC) not being ported despite being many years old now tells me at least one person at that company still has a head on their shoulders and realizes the importance of not giving away your best cards to your opponents.
 

SABRE220

Member
Im always against consolidation and sick of the acquisition trend but at least with this there is a silver lining. Imagining from software with bluepoints engine makes me salivate, the games can also receive budgets to actually deliver polished games with consistent framerates. Best of all we might finally get bloodborne 2, remake, and demons souls 2 which would be a dream come true.
 
Sony needs to get it out of their heads that the only avenue for growth is by putting their games on competing platforms. That's loser mentality and will lead them down the same road as MS. They need to focus on growing PS itself. That means giving people more incentive to buy their hardware. Which means focusing on exclusives (first party and third party). Nintendo and Valve do not bring their games to other platforms and they have no problem continuing to grow their businesses. The money is in the platform, not the so much the games themselves.

A PC storefront with exclusive first party games will never work either. Steam is too entrenched in PC gaming now, which for all practical purposes is now a closed platform for Valve and it's their territory (and who are also releasing actual console devices like the steam deck). If this were at all realistic then ask yourself why MS hasn't tried leveraging their own windows store, which is built into the OS and requires no extra download, for the same purpose instead of throwing everything on Steam as they currently do. With all the content they now own between Bethesda and ABK, they have FAR more leverage than Sony, with only a couple of FROM games in their portfolio, to try to force people off of Steam. MS would LOVE to have all PC gaming revenue go to them instead of Valve. But even they don't think they would be successful trying that. So what hope would Sony have?

The fact that after all of this PC porting nonsense Sony has been doing, DeS, BB, and GT7 (the games with the highest sales potential on PC) not being ported despite being many years old now tells me at least one person at that company still has a head on their shoulders and realizes the importance of not giving away your best cards to your opponents.

One simple illusion forms your entire premise.

The idea that PC gamers are just waiting to be console gamers and console gamers are just waiting to be PC gamers.

There's just no evidence of this being the case. The idea that just a few more exclusives would get Xbox fans and PC gamers to move over to PlayStation should have been obviously mistaken after the amazing string of exclusives they produced on PS4.

Ghost of Tsushima
The Last of Us Part 2
Horizon Zero Dawn
Spider-Man
God of War 2018
Uncharted 4
Bloodborne
Day's Gone
Infamous Second Son

Maybe the greatest collection of AAA games a platform holder has ever produced in one generation. Yet they sold fewer units than the PS2 (significantly fewer). The growth that you envision via exclusives simply isn't going to happen. It's a mirage and a vestige of console war ideology that has outlived the reality surrounding it.

You're holding on to old principals against better data... You'd be like guys in baseball arguing against sabermetrics or the guys who argue that teams should shoot less 3 pointers in the NBA.

Microsoft has tried to leverage its storefront through Windows. The problem? They don't have any killer app games.

Sony very well could be waiting to release GT7, Demon's Souls, and Bloodborne on their own launcher. We have no way of knowing how far away a launcher is.

You're also mistaken in the idea that you take on a market leader with the idea that you'll take their market share within a year or two. Go look at the videos on youtube with different market leaders in different industries and see how they've all fallen over time and how gradual it was. You're extremely short sighted.
 
Sony needs to get it out of their heads that the only avenue for growth is by putting their games on competing platforms. That's loser mentality and will lead them down the same road as MS. They need to focus on growing PS itself. That means giving people more incentive to buy their hardware. Which means focusing on exclusives (first party and third party). Nintendo and Valve do not bring their games to other platforms and they have no problem continuing to grow their businesses. The money is in the platform, not the so much the games themselves.

A PC storefront with exclusive first party games will never work either. Steam is too entrenched in PC gaming now, which for all practical purposes is now a closed platform for Valve and it's their territory (and who are also releasing actual console devices like the steam deck). If this were at all realistic then ask yourself why MS hasn't tried leveraging their own windows store, which is built into the OS and requires no extra download, for the same purpose instead of throwing everything on Steam as they currently do. With all the content they now own between Bethesda and ABK, they have FAR more leverage than Sony, with only a couple of FROM games in their portfolio, to try to force people off of Steam. MS would LOVE to have all PC gaming revenue go to them instead of Valve. But even they don't think they would be successful trying that. So what hope would Sony have?

The fact that after all of this PC porting nonsense Sony has been doing, DeS, BB, and GT7 (the games with the highest sales potential on PC) not being ported despite being many years old now tells me at least one person at that company still has a head on their shoulders and realizes the importance of not giving away your best cards to your opponents.

On the basic idea I don't disagree with you. Ideally, if they could get cloud gaming as its own sub tier again, fully figure a way for people to purchase cloud versions of games that can still entitle them to a non-cloud version later on if they so choose (at a cost discounted for the non-cloud version with the discount shrinking over time the longer they don't redeem it, unless they wait for the game to go on sale or something), then they could just use that as the low-cost entry option. Do it as a cheap box where they can control integration of the hardware & software experience. Maybe the recent update with PS Portal is a move into that direction.

However, they've let the cat out of the bag with these PC ports and realistically I'm not expecting them to change that. So alongside an aforementioned cheap cloud-based device, a PC launcher of their own wouldn't be so bad in the grand scheme of things. Whereas if they went with a Series S-like box, they'd potentially have game design features hamstrung by that weaker performance and needing to cater to it, and it'd eat too much into the production pipeline of their "real" next-gen console. Even if they develop means of enabling seamless scaling of settings & performance from a high-end to a lower-end, I don't think that'd be best served in yet another living room box. Use that for something like a portable, where portability as a convenience adds some natural value to the device.

For the PC launcher, I'm not saying it'd be exclusive to just 1P titles. The idea is that SIE would use some of their 1P titles as permanent exclusives and others as timed exclusives before going to other launchers, and others still (mainly IP that already have presence on Steam) as Day 1 multi-launcher releases. But yes, for a launcher to work they ultimately need to get 3P support as well, at least on par with what the console has. And if they don't want that to get out of balance, encourage any PC software on the launcher to get PlayStation versions as well, either with direct ports or through building some WINE-like compatibility layer into PS's OS (which IIRC is FreeBSD-based) so where any games without a native PS port can still run on the system, just maybe not fully optimized. But then it'd be up to SIE to give an incentive for optimization or better yet, an actual native port, and I guess leveraging the install base of the console (and over time if it grows, the launcher itself) would help.

FWIW I'm fully aware of the advantages MS have on PC due to all of their vested interests. That's why IF they're building a launcher (I'm not one of the ones pushing for that; others are, some are even saying the PS handheld will be a PC handheld which makes no sense to me as that'd mean it's running some version of Windows and....why would they do that?), then if they're making a PC push best to leverage their launcher ahead of everything else. So Steam, GOG etc. will still get the games they've already gotten so far (including, yes, Elden Ring), but any IP that haven't been ported to them? Keep as many exclusive to the PS launcher as possible, although I know it'd be a case-by-case in some instances where they may eventually go to other launchers.

Ultimately though, it's not like SIE are putting any of those games on the Microsoft Store. I'm also aware that, yes, MS could try taking Xbox into a more PC-like direction and that there's an opening for them to technically play SIE 1P games that way if they enable alternative storefronts like Steam, EGS etc. (which I think will happen), but I don't think that'll be the gotcha some think, at least as long as SIE don't get any further in-depth with Steam than they already are. For example, MS would be adding Windows code & APIs for natural compatibility of those alternate storefronts (and whitelisted programs) through their own effort I feel, but for the storefronts it's ultimately still with the permission of Valve, Epic, CDP etc. MS would just be doing the hard work for them vs. having them write Xbox-specific apps.

If SIE don't give that permission to Microsoft, then they can't go ahead and add PS launcher compatibility to that hypothetical Xbox. Yes, hackers/modders may try, but since this would still be an Xbox with some closed platform features (mainly for security reasons, hence only running whitelisted apps), then Microsoft can still enforce things from their end, meaning firmware updates and whatnot would kill any of those types of hacks. That'd mean the only SIE games that hypothetical type of Xbox would play are those already on Steam, EGS etc. and yeah that still is kind of a "lol" on SIE's part because of how they've done their PC strategy up to this point, but it is what it is. And if they aren't gonna yank IP from launchers that already have audiences for them, then it means either Day 1 or sometime within 1-2 years (though IMO, should be much later for bigger non-GAAS titles) that "Xbox" (console/PC hybrid) can still play Horizon, Destiny, God of War and if Sony acquire Kadokawa, very likely Elden Ring 2 through it via Steam even if SIE cease specific Xbox versions of those games.

But the other reasons why I don't see that being too big a deal for SIE long-term, is because I think there's zero chance they do alternative storefronts without finding a way to make money off of that. It's the whole reason why I think the next Xbox(es) are going to be console/PC hybrid devices: it's really about the business model in it. No chance in hell Valve or Epic agree to a revenue sharing model, and they wouldn't want PC Game Pass on their storefronts either, so either MS sells much higher-priced hardware that "bakes in" the lost revenue on 1P & 3P game sales from the Xbox Store due to upfront access to storefronts like Steam, or they offer somewhat higher-priced hardware that's soft-subsidized with a Game Pass contract where access to those storefronts comes through some Game Pass subscription tier. Most likely, they'll offer both.

And since in both cases they're going to want to have lucrative profit margins on the hardware upfront (more so with the non-subsidized model but still), they'll know that places their production volume at a certain level. They won't be producing those systems to compete at volume with PlayStation or Nintendo, but they'd probably try aiming for a 3-5 million-per-year market with them (assuming one's the rumored handheld, and the other's a console-like box with modularity). They'll likely have to partner with OEMs either making a Surface-like reference model or doing something like what SEGA did with JVC, Hitachi etc. during the Saturn (or 3DO with Panasonic and Sanyo as other examples), which that Discord leak from back in January said and I think is going to happen. Just hopefully MS don't half-ass it but we never know with them.

So yeah, at this point I think SIE & PC is here to stay, for better or worst. But, I think they can make it work as long as they don't go gung-ho with bringing all their stuff to launchers like Steam, but also don't pull back launcher support for IP that are already on other storefronts and have big audiences there. In terms of the big AAA non-GAAS IP, I think the main one (from an internal studio) they'll use to do Day 1 between their own launcher and other launchers, is likely Horizon 3. And potentially, Spiderman 3. If they acquire Kadokawa, I'm expecting the same with Elden Ring 2.

After that, would be the games that probably work best with a staggered launcher strategy, but might go Day 1 between a PS launcher and the console. That might be stuff like a Days Gone 2, for example. After that, would be games that maybe didn't work so well on other platforms and have a 50/50 chance of being heavily delayed for non-PS launchers or just ending up exclusive to their own launcher. You know, the Rift Aparts, Until Dawns, Returnals of their lineup. And from there they could have games that in terms of launchers are just full-on exclusive to their own, for example because those games are heavily associated with PlayStation to begin with. That's where I think you'd get some From Software exclusives like a King's Field, Echo Night, Eternal Ring, Evergrace, Demon's Souls or Bloodborne for example, or games like GT7, or SIE bringing back classics like Jet Moto and Parappa. I don't see a reason to have those on any other launcher than a PlayStation one.

Now how consoles play into that could get tricky...well, not with Xbox. There's a real chance that outside of GAAS titles, SIE bring nothing directly to Xbox. Again, Microsoft can kinda have a way around that if they PC-ify Xbox but it'd be limited to whatever SIE games end up on Steam. Nintendo is where it actually gets really tricky, because I never thought they'd release something like LEGO Horizon on Switch (let alone Day 1) until they did it. I think with Nintendo, SIE would primarily stick with whatever GAAS are already there (e.g MLB The Show), maybe some other LEGO crossover, some of the smaller AA games (that in terms of PC, could mostly be exclusive to the PS launcher), and improved remasters of old-old (pre-PS4) games with QOL features and such.

With those types of remasters, maybe SIE would include them in a subscription tier for their launcher on PC and since those tiers should match what PS+ has (outside of online play, which should be free, which could complicate things with that on the console), then that type of library should be available to console owners with a subscription as well at the same tier. There won't be any PS+ on Nintendo, so those customers can pay for individual remasters or small collections of them. Meanwhile for the PS console, those users should be able to download native versions of those retro games they can play even if their sub lapses, but I don't see a reason to offer the same to a PS launcher subscriber on PC (who doesn't have a console) unless they pay a small fee to download the game natively to their system first.

Ideally I'd like if SIE could get a good cycle going where when, say, they released a game for the Switch or port a game to a PC launcher that isn't theirs, that there's a new game of equivalent (in stature) or higher coming exclusively for their console (or their console & PS launcher, depending on the game, which might end up being the majority of them). Preferably with internal 1P titles or games co-developed with 3P partners in 2P deals, since I see straight-up 3P exclusives being less and less a thing that happens, especially in the AAA side of things.

So yeah, I'm not completely against a multiplatform strategy for SIE, since whether some want it or not that's a direction they're going in. But I do think they could have a tight, well-oiled approach and one improved a lot over what they've been doing so far, that doesn't really jeopardize console sales or growth all that much either. And that still doesn't prevent them from having cheaper entry-level hardware access points in their ecosystem (cloud streaming device, portable with various tech for automating scaling & performance from higher-end target to its spec). Regardless, they really do need to prioritize maintaining as much coupled integration within their domain in that ecosystem as possible when it comes to the hardware, OS, API, middleware, software & services stacks.
 

nial

Member
We have no idea how Kadokawa's main branches will be managed.
It's the most likely scenario, to be quite honest. Spike Chunsoft would be too bloated for Aniplex, there's literally no reason to move them from Dwango.
Also, Kadokawa should be Sony Group's seventh main subsidiary in Japan, right after Sony Corp. (EP&S), Sony Semiconductor Solutions (I&SS), SIEI (G&NS), SPEJ (Pictures), SMEJ (Music) and SFGI (Financial Services). Going by this, I bet everything on Sony Group creating a new business segment dedicated to publishing just for Kadokawa, which means that they would be moving the parts of the company without much relation to this around the group; that's exactly where I see Dwango going to SMEJ and From Software going to SIEI, for example.
 
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GHound

Member
A bonus one if the meltdowns here aren't enough for you. =P
I hope you get to the 'Japanese culture' part.
So this has been something I've seen come up a few times now, but when and why exactly did the Retarderans get such a hate boner for SIE? I mean we're talking about a company that has studios who have all but outright pandered to their ilk more than once. That it's a big enough one that they'll go so far as to white knight Kadokawa, a company that they only care about in so much as they would love to see the overwhelming majority of IPs they own or operate heavily censored or banned from sale, is extremely hilarious.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
I think you’re a little confused. This is a Sony acquisition. We are on gaf. There will be no meltdowns. Only cheerleading.

There was plenty of cheerleading when the ABK acquisition went through as well. Yes......here on GAF.

Not a hive mind I agree, but this place is basically messageboard.Sony.com.

Who is it that all these Sony fans are arguing with then?
 
It's the most likely scenario, to be quite honest. Spike Chunsoft would be too bloated for Aniplex, there's literally no reason to move them from Dwango.
Also, Kadokawa should be Sony Group's seventh main subsidiary in Japan, right after Sony Corp. (EP&S), Sony Semiconductor Solutions (I&SS), SIEI (G&NS), SPEJ (Pictures), SMEJ (Music) and SFGI (Financial Services). Going by this, I bet everything on Sony Group creating a new business segment dedicated to publishing just for Kadokawa, which means that they would be moving the parts of the company without much relation to this around the group; that's exactly where I see Dwango going to SMEJ and From Software going to SIEI, for example.


Sony said previously and recently that they didn't plan to expand their segments.

Having Kadokawa underneath Sony Group rather than a specific group is not in line with their strategy.
 

FrankWza

Gold Member
Not a hive mind I agree, but this place is basically messageboard.Sony.com.

60-40 against. #Sonygaf
 
So this has been something I've seen come up a few times now, but when and why exactly did the Retarderans get such a hate boner for SIE? I mean we're talking about a company that has studios who have all but outright pandered to their ilk more than once. That it's a big enough one that they'll go so far as to white knight Kadokawa, a company that they only care about in so much as they would love to see the overwhelming majority of IPs they own or operate heavily censored or banned from sale, is extremely hilarious.

I noticed the shift in early 2022 after Jim Ryan sent an internal email asking employees to respect each other's differences. For whatever 0 IQ reason a lot of people at ResetERA took that as him supporting beliefs they virtue signal for believe in.

When really, he was just speaking like a normally-functioning adult. When you're an adult and have to work in the real world, you have to tolerate different perspectives and some of those might be coworkers. You still gotta work with them to get things done, though. That's all he was saying but a lot of people at ResetERA needed a reason to boogeyman Sony for calling out MS's BS terms with ABK and that was the thing that did it.

After that it just got progressively worst and worst. A lot of PlayStation people left that place during the ABK stuff and a lot of them haven't returned. Can't blame them.
 
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nial

Member
So this has been something I've seen come up a few times now, but when and why exactly did the Retarderans get such a hate boner for SIE? I mean we're talking about a company that has studios who have all but outright pandered to their ilk more than once. That it's a big enough one that they'll go so far as to white knight Kadokawa, a company that they only care about in so much as they would love to see the overwhelming majority of IPs they own or operate heavily censored or banned from sale, is extremely hilarious.
I don't think most know anything about Kadowaka outside of being le isekai company.
Speaking of Kadokawa's IPs, I watched Yagate Kimi ni Naru just a few days before the deal was reported, which is kind of funny as the anime had involvement of Sony. Great series, loved it.
 

nial

Member
Sony said previously and recently that they didn't plan to expand their segments.

Having Kadokawa underneath Sony Group rather than a specific group is not in line with their strategy.
When did they say this? Was it under their then-current business reality before they started having conversations with Kadokawa?
But even if Kadokawa just ends up being part of the 'Others' business segment (which I honestly find very unlikely given their size and importance within some industries in particular), my point still stands. There would be no reason to have the likes of From Software and Acquire there when they could simply be moved into the segments that make the most sense, and that's true for a lot of companies under Kadokawa.
 

Topher

Identifies as young

60-40 against. #Sonygaf

If You Say So Shrug GIF
 
When did they say this? Was it under their then-current business reality before they started having conversations with Kadokawa?
But even if Kadokawa just ends up being part of the 'Others' business segment (which I honestly find very unlikely given their size and importance within some industries in particular), my point still stands. There would be no reason to have the likes of From Software and Acquire there when they could simply be moved into the segments that make the most sense, and that's true for a lot of companies under Kadokawa.

It was when they were asked about Paramount and they said they wouldn't comment on any potential acquisitions but that they didn't see themselves adding any new segments to their business.

The post merger integration for Kadokawa is going to be long and complex, but it does make sense to identify areas of business in which things can be easily restructured to give early synergy wins.

Historically if you look at companies like Tri-Star, it still operates underneath Sony Pictures. Tristar still has its own President though. That's likely what will happen with some elements of Kadokawa, that they'll operate under the umbrella of SMEJ, but that they'll still functional largely independently, while other elements are rolled under SIE and SPE respectively.

I think it's pretty low chance that it will operate as is as its own business segment.
 

nial

Member
Historically if you look at companies like Tri-Star, it still operates underneath Sony Pictures. Tristar still has its own President though. That's likely what will happen with some elements of Kadokawa, that they'll operate under the umbrella of SMEJ, but that they'll still functional largely independently, while other elements are rolled under SIE and SPE respectively.

I think it's pretty low chance that it will operate as is as its own business segment.
The thing with TriStar is that it's purely a film company, there's no group company to put them under other than SPE, which already encompasses every pictures production company owned by Sony (outside of obvious cases like Aniplex and PlayStation Productions).
Kadokawa is not only a bit excessive for SMEJ alone, but it's also even MORE non-music revenue added to that business segment.
I don't know, I just see establishing a Publishing segment being the best route for Sony here, and it will also lead to easier, further growing for such operations in the future, which I would find a bit limited if they're placed under SMEJ.
 
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Kamina

Golden Boy
Kadokawa seems to let FROM work relatively freely. We do not know what kind of Influence Sony would enforce on FROM if they owned Kadokawa. Perhaps none, perhaps some, but I doubt they want to push them too hard.
Perhaps Sony just wants to own the IPs and make decisions regarding remakes.
 
This recent page made me realize that Acquire and Spike Chunsoft are part of this deal. That makes it larger than I originally thought.
 

MagnesD3

Member

60-40 against. #Sonygaf
Normal people cant comprehend how corporations arent thier friends.
 

Astray

Member
Mibu no ookami Mibu no ookami who would you consider to be the biggest loser of this transaction, if it does end up happening?

My mind almost immediately goes to two players: Bandai Namco and Nintendo.

Bandai Namco: They permanently lose the publishing rights of future From Software games, and they might even lose out on Spike Chunsoft if SIE decides they want them in-house.

Nintendo: Companies like Acquire and Spike Chunsoft have produced a surprising amount of timed and full exclusives for Nintendo (which kept the content ticking and contributed to the success of the Switch 1). I think the idea of these companies making a timed exclusive for Nintendo is basically done, especially given that Sony is trying to get back into handhelds next gen. And Nintendo almost certainly won't be contracting them to make Pokemon or Mario games either.

I don’t know about that, Spike’s latest game, Sparking Zero sold 3M copies in less than a day.
But that's also a licensed Dragon Ball game, DB is a franchise that has really been on the rise once again with both adults and children.

Sony doesn't own it, so it would be a spiderman kind of deal if they continue making Sparking Zeros.
 

Elios83

Member
...Also (an aside), I saw Idas and some others mentioning regulators might object to Sony making Elden Ring a PS console exclusive? There's no basis for that, for three reasons:

1: Xbox console sales are dying globally due to bad market decisions from Microsoft, considering they get at least 95% of the same games as PlayStation aside most 1P titles and some 3P exclusives​
2: Elden Ring has nowhere near 51% of the RPG market share (whether all RPGs combined, or just WRPGs or just JRPGs) in terms of sales revenue, and:​
3: Both the CMA and EC already stated that Microsoft foreclosing COD on PlayStation IN ITS ENTIRETY, was perfectly fine with them. The same COD whose recent release just saw 82% of the console sales on PS4/PS5!!​

So considering those three points, not only would regulators not give two shits about Sony acquiring Kadokawa (outside of potentially Famitsu and Nico Nico, both of which could be spun off & sold to another company if needed), but they also would have zero objections to Sony removing Elden Ring from Xbox altogether, given as an IP it's still quite smaller than COD overall.

It's like people forgot about point #3 because they knew it'd be inconvenient for them to argue the exact scenario we might end up seeing happen with Sony & Kadokawa. But even with all that said, I personally think Sony & SIE are going to keep Elden Ring & any sequels on Xbox, and might even try getting the IP on Nintendo hardware too. And I don't think they're going to go for timed PS exclusivity either: it'll be Day 1 on all supported platforms.

There's really no net gain in them to make that IP exclusive. OTOH, they can keep IP like King's Field and Demon's Souls exclusive to their own consoles and (if it happens) PC launcher, because those are IP that have only ever been on Sony systems to begin with, in their entirety. Same technically goes for Bloodborne. Some people might get miffed about that but all the same, there's already precedent of platform exclusivity with those IP and compared to Elden Ring, they're much smaller.

I also think if SIE do actually do a PC launcher, any IP they've already put on Steam, EGS, GOG etc. will have future installments release there, because audiences are already there for them on PC. So games like Horizon, God of War, Spiderman etc. I don't think SIE are going to suddenly make PC-exclusive to their own launcher. But it could also be a reason why games like GT7 and Demon's Souls Remake haven't been ported to PC yet; maybe they're saving those for their own launcher exclusively.

SIE have to think about any launcher as a long-term proposition and ideally it shouldn't pose much a threat to their own console adoption rates for a good while. If the current PC strategy is what it is, then I guess at most simply only take it that far and no further. As in, they don't have to remove games like Horizon or God of War from Steam, but at the very least maintain a 1.5-2 year gap between console to PC, and if they're going to do Day 1 for them on PC, limit it to their own launcher. Meanwhile stuff like whatever ND's new IP is, or Cory Balrog's next game, they should seriously consider keeping them exclusive to their own launcher when talking PC. Same with select GAAS titles, and most of the smaller AA 1P titles that might ever eventually get ports and don't already have an audience on other storefronts (Astro Bot, for example).

People don't want to admit it but even with PC storefronts like Steam exclusivity is a big factor to why they've grown so big; Valve doesn't release ANY of their own games to other storefronts or consoles and they seem to be doing more than well. So at worst, if SIE did the same with some of their own titles, they simply don't grow that much on PC because their launcher doesn't grow. Even then, they still have their actual console to fall back on where those same games can see massive success, and with both the console and storefront, SIE maintain tight vertical control.


Some people are just delusional if they think that Kadokawa/From Software is interesting/relevant regulatory material.
It has less relevance than Bethesda.
Sony can do whatever they want if they acquire them. If remote objections can be raised is because of the anime stuff, not because of the gaming side with From Software.
They won't make the games PlayStation exclusive though, it's absolutely clear that PC will continue to be a key a platform since it's a platform where Sony is trying to expand with their own games, worst case there will console timed exclusives but I doubt it.
Xbox is kinda irrelevant at this point. It's a platform on its way out because that's what Microsoft decided. Most Xbox fans have already made peace in their minds with it and migrated to PC.
 
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Ar¢tos

Member
Kadokawa seems to let FROM work relatively freely. We do not know what kind of Influence Sony would enforce on FROM if they owned Kadokawa. Perhaps none, perhaps some, but I doubt they want to push them too hard.
Perhaps Sony just wants to own the IPs and make decisions regarding remakes.
Kadokawa doesn't really manage FromSoftware. Their games are still published by other publishers in the west (FromSoftware self publishes in Japan) and in the end is the publisher that has a say on what they do. Kadokawa just seems to collect a share of profit in the end, and use FromSoftware name to boost the value of their shares.
 
The thing with TriStar is that it's purely a film company, there's no group company to put them under other than SPE, which already encompasses every pictures production company owned by Sony (outside of obvious cases like Aniplex and PlayStation Productions).
Kadokawa is not only a bit excessive for SMEJ alone, but it's also even MORE non-music revenue added to that business segment.
I don't know, I just see establishing a Publishing segment being the best route for Sony here, and it will also lead to easier, further growing for such operations in the future, which I would find a bit limited if they're placed under SMEJ.

Again, it's only about org structure here. There's nothing excessive about it falling under SMEJ, it simply means that the CEO of Kadokawa would answer up to Toshiaki Muramatsu, CEO of SMEJ. SMEJ operates independently of Sony Music as it falls under Sony Group, and they've never cared that they have non-music revenue in the past. SMEJ does a lot of stuff outside of music. It's already kind of an all-encompassing Sony brand outside of gaming and electronics in Japan (and Financing). It has a larger film presence in Japan than SPEJ.

So I'm telling you better odds are higher that they'd fall under SMEJ than simply creating a new segment. It's possible that they do that, but it's unlikely based on what they've said.
 

Perrott

Member
I think a lot more played BB if you include ps plus. They gave away the game in 2018
And at PS5's launch (and for the following year and a half) as part of the PlayStation Plus Collection, not to mention how it was part of the PlayStation Now library and then PlayStation Plus Extra.

It was widely enjoyed by the PlayStation audience, probably exceeding 15M lifetime players.
 
Mibu no ookami Mibu no ookami who would you consider to be the biggest loser of this transaction, if it does end up happening?

My mind almost immediately goes to two players: Bandai Namco and Nintendo.

Bandai Namco: They permanently lose the publishing rights of future From Software games, and they might even lose out on Spike Chunsoft if SIE decides they want them in-house.

Nintendo: Companies like Acquire and Spike Chunsoft have produced a surprising amount of timed and full exclusives for Nintendo (which kept the content ticking and contributed to the success of the Switch 1). I think the idea of these companies making a timed exclusive for Nintendo is basically done, especially given that Sony is trying to get back into handhelds next gen. And Nintendo almost certainly won't be contracting them to make Pokemon or Mario games either.


But that's also a licensed Dragon Ball game, DB is a franchise that has really been on the rise once again with both adults and children.

Sony doesn't own it, so it would be a spiderman kind of deal if they continue making Sparking Zeros.

Great question Astray Astray

I think Bandai Namco looks like it loses on the surface, but the reality is they've already "lost" when they agreed to sell the Elden Ring IP to FromSoftware. Unless it came with a contractual obligation to allow them to publish future titles, that's probably it for the relationship between Bandai Namco and FromSoftware, but the righting had been on the wall since the investments by SIE and Tencent. It's worth noting that Bandai Namco owns 2.17% of Kadokawa, a higher percentage than Sony, albeit negligibly. They'll at least get a bit of a pay day out of this.

I don't expect Sony will upend the work that Acquire and Spine Chunsoft are doing. I don't really expect either company to roll up under SIE. They simply aren't big enough players in the AAA space and can make more money being multiplatform. I say that like I said to nial nial with a huge caveat there being that Sony's desire to get back into the handheld space might really upend some things in Sony Group. It's one thing to create a Switch game when Sony doesn't have a handheld, but to keep making Switch 2 games when there is a Sony handheld on the market might be suspect. It's also totally possible that Sony starts making more generic IP based games in Japan and explores this manga/anime pipeline to movies/games. When Totoki spoke of IP generation, I think this is an element of what he may have been referring to, but Sony Pictures and Sony Music Japan have always looked to improve their bottom line kind of at the expense of SIE.

The biggest loser I think when you explore it are people who are definitely going to lose something in this which is Xbox consumers, who are almost sure to be locked out of future FromSoftware games.
 

Astray

Member
I think Bandai Namco looks like it loses on the surface, but the reality is they've already "lost" when they agreed to sell the Elden Ring IP to FromSoftware. Unless it came with a contractual obligation to allow them to publish future titles, that's probably it for the relationship between Bandai Namco and FromSoftware, but the righting had been on the wall since the investments by SIE and Tencent. It's worth noting that Bandai Namco owns 2.17% of Kadokawa, a higher percentage than Sony, albeit negligibly. They'll at least get a bit of a pay day out of this.
Yeah Bandai has been losing ground with FROM for a while now.

I don't expect Sony will upend the work that Acquire and Spine Chunsoft are doing. I don't really expect either company to roll up under SIE. They simply aren't big enough players in the AAA space and can make more money being multiplatform. I say that like I said to nial nial nial nial with a huge caveat there being that Sony's desire to get back into the handheld space might really upend some things in Sony Group. It's one thing to create a Switch game when Sony doesn't have a handheld, but to keep making Switch 2 games when there is a Sony handheld on the market might be suspect. It's also totally possible that Sony starts making more generic IP based games in Japan and explores this manga/anime pipeline to movies/games. When Totoki spoke of IP generation, I think this is an element of what he may have been referring to, but Sony Pictures and Sony Music Japan have always looked to improve their bottom line kind of at the expense of SIE.
The thing about Acquire and Spike Chunsoft is they are not super important if you are only doing Home console + PC, but if you're doing a handheld, then your whole calculus shifts.

You can have Acquire do HD-2D remakes of Wild Arms or Arc the Lad or Alundra..etc and see where they go, these sorts of franchises might be way too small to justify a +$100m project from SIE, but if you have a handheld then this is perfect fare because JRPGs work great for handhelds where you can plug in a few hours wherever you are. They can also function as quicker drops on PS+ if they want to grow their subscription revenue. You can probably port them later on to Switch 2 and get more revenue out of it.

I personally predict that Nintendo will start going on its own mini-shopping spree to get smaller support studios, especially the ones that are based in Japan and work with them frequently, the Switch's biggest success factor wasn't just the fact that they merged their game pipeline, it's also that they kept content ticking along, every month there's games getting released or announced for Switch, and Nintendo won't want Sony or MS to fuck up that flow.

The biggest loser I think when you explore it are people who are definitely going to lose something in this which is Xbox consumers, who are almost sure to be locked out of future FromSoftware games.
Xbox consumers are definitely losing in this imo, their base DOES show up for big Soulslikes imo (counter to their behavior across other some genres), but at this point it's simply small enough to get ignored because the loss of their %70 revenue cut on Xbox is more than made-up for by the %70 revenue gain on PS.

It's gonna be one more cudgel for Sony to push Xbox consumers to convert to PS.

One other thing I want to talk about is I don't really foresee foreclosure of From Software games to be that much of a sticking point with regulators, the soulslike market has simply exploded in recent years, and every year there are at least 3-4 soulslike games that are not made by From Software.
 

nial

Member
It's already kind of an all-encompassing Sony brand outside of gaming and electronics in Japan (and Financing). It has a larger film presence in Japan than SPEJ.
Well, seeing as Kadokawa is very much Japan-focused, maybe you're onto something there.
I do want to say that SMEJ does produce electronics, and obviously gaming as well.
 

yurinka

Member
The thing about Acquire and Spike Chunsoft is they are not super important if you are only doing Home console + PC, but if you're doing a handheld, then your whole calculus shifts.

You can have Acquire do HD-2D remakes of Wild Arms or Arc the Lad or Alundra..etc and see where they go, these sorts of franchises might be way too small to justify a +$100m project from SIE, but if you have a handheld then this is perfect fare because JRPGs work great for handhelds where you can plug in a few hours wherever you are. They can also function as quicker drops on PS+ if they want to grow their subscription revenue. You can probably port them later on to Switch 2 and get more revenue out of it.

I personally predict that Nintendo will start going on its own mini-shopping spree to get smaller support studios, especially the ones that are based in Japan and work with them frequently, the Switch's biggest success factor wasn't just the fact that they merged their game pipeline, it's also that they kept content ticking along, every month there's games getting released or announced for Switch, and Nintendo won't want Sony or MS to fuck up that flow.
I think almost nobody would buy them, but I think it would be great to have Wild Arms, Alundra etc remakes made by Acquire with an artstyle somewhat similar to Octopath Traveller but a bit more similar to the original games. Looking at the long term, even if these games don't sell a shit, having slow paced gameplay they also suited for cloud gaming and mobile gaming, so to start bringing them back may be interesting to start building catalog and refreshing IPs looking at the medium/long term where cloud gaming and mobile may be more important businesses for Sony.

I think Nintendo won't be happy to see Sony getting FromSoft, Acquire and Spike Chunsoft even if it won't accept them a lot. But yes, they make some deffensive move securing a handful 2nd party partners as could be someone who often publishes on PS like Platinum Games or Koei Tecmo, or maybe even to totally secure people who at least in recent years only worked for them but aren't a totally secured / owned subsidiary: people like Camelot, Intelligent Systems, HAL etc.
 
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Some people are just delusional if they think that Kadokawa/From Software is interesting/relevant regulatory material.
It has less relevance than Bethesda.
Sony can do whatever they want if they acquire them. If remote objections can be raised is because of the anime stuff, not because of the gaming side with From Software.
They won't make the games PlayStation exclusive though, it's absolutely clear that PC will continue to be a key a platform since it's a platform where Sony is trying to expand with their own games, worst case there will console timed exclusives but I doubt it.
Xbox is kinda irrelevant at this point. It's a platform on its way out because that's what Microsoft decided. Most Xbox fans have already made peace in their minds with it and migrated to PC.

Yeah, if anything maybe some of the anime stuff and the streaming service thing (Nico Nico) & Famitsu would be things Sony'd have to work some terms around, but they'd be able to do so fairly easily with the least amount of concessions.

From Software? That's not going to be a point of concern for any regulator whatsoever. Even so, I think Sony & SIE would have other reasons for wanting to keep IP like Elden Ring where they already are and not suddenly make them exclusive. Though yeah, like you're saying they could stop with specific Xbox versions over time, but PC/Steam itself? They're gonna be perfectly fine.

That might look different for a couple other From Software IP like King's Field (at least any new revival), Echo Night (ditto) etc., but that partly depends on if From Software want to actually bring those back in the first place. It'd be nice to see a new King's Field or Evergrace but they wouldn't come at the expense of more Elden Ring. IMO though I think SIE should keep Bloodborne off of Steam and save that for their own launcher if they are actually considering a PC launcher in the near future. Same with Demon's Souls TBH.

After all, real From fans always had to go to multiple platforms to play all their games in the past. Real fans today wouldn't be any different, especially for IP that have no presence or association with PC and Steam at all (which for From, is quite a few of their IP actually).

Great question Astray Astray

I think Bandai Namco looks like it loses on the surface, but the reality is they've already "lost" when they agreed to sell the Elden Ring IP to FromSoftware. Unless it came with a contractual obligation to allow them to publish future titles, that's probably it for the relationship between Bandai Namco and FromSoftware, but the righting had been on the wall since the investments by SIE and Tencent. It's worth noting that Bandai Namco owns 2.17% of Kadokawa, a higher percentage than Sony, albeit negligibly. They'll at least get a bit of a pay day out of this.

I don't expect Sony will upend the work that Acquire and Spine Chunsoft are doing. I don't really expect either company to roll up under SIE. They simply aren't big enough players in the AAA space and can make more money being multiplatform. I say that like I said to nial nial with a huge caveat there being that Sony's desire to get back into the handheld space might really upend some things in Sony Group. It's one thing to create a Switch game when Sony doesn't have a handheld, but to keep making Switch 2 games when there is a Sony handheld on the market might be suspect. It's also totally possible that Sony starts making more generic IP based games in Japan and explores this manga/anime pipeline to movies/games. When Totoki spoke of IP generation, I think this is an element of what he may have been referring to, but Sony Pictures and Sony Music Japan have always looked to improve their bottom line kind of at the expense of SIE.

The biggest loser I think when you explore it are people who are definitely going to lose something in this which is Xbox consumers, who are almost sure to be locked out of future FromSoftware games.

IIRC, Bandai Namco own the IP rights to Dark Souls. So technically, if From Software wanted to make a new Dark Souls, Bandai Namco would be the publishers. And if Bandai Namco wanted another DBZ game like Sparking Zero made, I don't see why Sony wouldn't let Spike Chunsoft make it for them. Or Acquire to make another Mario & Luigi: Brothership game for Nintendo.

I don't think either get cut loose completely just because Sony might end up acquiring Kadokawa. Though with Dark Souls it's interesting because that's practically Demon's Souls in all but name and SIE own the IP rights to Demon's Souls. So technically yeah, Bandai Namco might lose out on future Dark Souls games if From make new Demon's Souls games. But truth be told, I think Sony Corp will work things out with Bandai Namco on that front and still having access to studios like Spike Chunsoft, and work things out with Nintendo to still have access to studios like Acquire.

Genuinely don't see why not in either case. It'd mean money from Nintendo, and staying on good terms with Bandai Namco which would come in handy down the line for marketing deals, or maybe even co-developing some games (like a Ridge Racer revival).

I am starting to think Sony will also own Square and Capcomby the end of this gen

Hell, who knows. Definitely possible, good probability. Though NGL, I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding why Sony'd pick up Square-Enix if they get Kadokawa. Doesn't Kadokawa serve most of the functions a Square-Enix M&A would?

Like I get it, there's Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and SE are doing well on the smaller games front with RS2R & DQIIIR. But I think SE could just bring back dormant IP like Brave Fencer & Einhander on their own if they wanted, or if SIE wanted something with those games could do so through co-funding and co-development. Same with Parasite Eve. Plus with the way SE's CEO is talking these days, it really sounds like they don't want to be acquired at all and want to stay independent.

So maybe with Square-Enix Sony'd be better off buying shares and making investments into them over time.
 
IIRC, Bandai Namco own the IP rights to Dark Souls. So technically, if From Software wanted to make a new Dark Souls, Bandai Namco would be the publishers. And if Bandai Namco wanted another DBZ game like Sparking Zero made, I don't see why Sony wouldn't let Spike Chunsoft make it for them. Or Acquire to make another Mario & Luigi: Brothership game for Nintendo.

I don't think either get cut loose completely just because Sony might end up acquiring Kadokawa. Though with Dark Souls it's interesting because that's practically Demon's Souls in all but name and SIE own the IP rights to Demon's Souls. So technically yeah, Bandai Namco might lose out on future Dark Souls games if From make new Demon's Souls games. But truth be told, I think Sony Corp will work things out with Bandai Namco on that front and still having access to studios like Spike Chunsoft, and work things out with Nintendo to still have access to studios like Acquire.

Genuinely don't see why not in either case. It'd mean money from Nintendo, and staying on good terms with Bandai Namco which would come in handy down the line for marketing deals, or maybe even co-developing some games (like a Ridge Racer revival).

If FromSoftware wants to make a new Dark Souls all they need to do is make a Demon's Souls. They don't need to cut Bandai Namco in at all.

That's why I said Spike Chunsoft and Acquire probably won't fall under SIE. The projects and revenue they'll get doing what they're doing is greater than what they'll be getting from working under SIE.

I didn't say they'd be cut loose.

Sony will work things out with Bandai Namco? What are you basing that on? Be precise? You say the most random things without anything backing it up. Maybe Sony will let Insomniac work with Microsoft on a couple games.
 
If FromSoftware wants to make a new Dark Souls all they need to do is make a Demon's Souls. They don't need to cut Bandai Namco in at all.

In theory, yes. But realistically, there's a 50/50 chance they do it. They may also have game ideas that they'd want specific to Dark Souls and other specific to Demon's Souls.

There's a small chance they could continue with both while diverging them further, and if it's Dark Souls, I don't see why Sony would mind Bandai Namco retaining publishing rights. Of course, Bandai Namco would have to be the ones to fund a new Dark Souls entry, that's where there's benefit for Sony & SIE.

That's why I said Spike Chunsoft and Acquire probably won't fall under SIE. The projects and revenue they'll get doing what they're doing is greater than what they'll be getting from working under SIE.

I didn't say they'd be cut loose.

Fair enough. That would be a sensible approach for Sony to do with those studios.

Sony will work things out with Bandai Namco? What are you basing that on? Be precise? You say the most random things without anything backing it up. Maybe Sony will let Insomniac work with Microsoft on a couple games.

Bandai Namco don't have a directly competing gaming platform with SIE the way Microsoft does, and they haven't tried making acquisitions to shut SIE out from key 3P partners for foreclosure strategies against PlayStation. The real reason MS are even bringing their games more fully to PlayStation is because Xbox consoles are collapsing and they've spent $80+ billion on buying big 3P publishers. Financially, they need platforms like PlayStation (and Nintendo), in order to survive as a games publisher.

SIE and Bandai Namco have a long history together going back to the original PlayStation. SIE and Sony know that Bandai Namco are a strong partner to PlayStation and in the Asian region. Better to keep relations strong even in the likelihood Sony acquire Kadokawa vs. spoiling them and making it easier for Bandai Namco to justify deals with, say, Microsoft or other competitors like Tencent.

It's nothing remotely comparable to Insomniac, who were never really a multiplatform studio aside of a single game for Xbox that was a commercial failure (mainly due to Microsoft's bad marketing and troubles with XBO), and didn't own any notable IP of their own at time of acquisition.
 
In theory, yes. But realistically, there's a 50/50 chance they do it. They may also have game ideas that they'd want specific to Dark Souls and other specific to Demon's Souls.

There's a small chance they could continue with both while diverging them further, and if it's Dark Souls, I don't see why Sony would mind Bandai Namco retaining publishing rights. Of course, Bandai Namco would have to be the ones to fund a new Dark Souls entry, that's where there's benefit for Sony & SIE.

Apart for very lore specific things, they're the exact same game franchise. There's nothing in Dark Souls worth giving Bandai Namco publishing or licensing rights over just calling a game Demon's Souls and paying them nothing.

It would be like Harmonix making a Guitar Hero game instead of Rockband just to pay Activision a cut.

Sony doesn't need Bandai Namco funding.

Fair enough. That would be a sensible approach for Sony to do with those studios.



Bandai Namco don't have a directly competing gaming platform with SIE the way Microsoft does, and they haven't tried making acquisitions to shut SIE out from key 3P partners for foreclosure strategies against PlayStation. The real reason MS are even bringing their games more fully to PlayStation is because Xbox consoles are collapsing and they've spent $80+ billion on buying big 3P publishers. Financially, they need platforms like PlayStation (and Nintendo), in order to survive as a games publisher.

SIE and Bandai Namco have a long history together going back to the original PlayStation. SIE and Sony know that Bandai Namco are a strong partner to PlayStation and in the Asian region. Better to keep relations strong even in the likelihood Sony acquire Kadokawa vs. spoiling them and making it easier for Bandai Namco to justify deals with, say, Microsoft or other competitors like Tencent.

It's nothing remotely comparable to Insomniac, who were never really a multiplatform studio aside of a single game for Xbox that was a commercial failure (mainly due to Microsoft's bad marketing and troubles with XBO), and didn't own any notable IP of their own at time of acquisition.

You live in a fantasy world. It's not as if Bandai Namco hasn't worked with Sony's competitors in the past. Hell they made an arcade board around the Gamecube. They've actually developed quite a few titles for Nintendo directly. It's nothing personal. It's just business opportunities.

You're not hurting relations by buying a company and focusing that company to make your games and not others.

Insomniac made a few multiplatform games. 3 games appearing on Xbox. Based on your logic, they should let Insomniac keep working with EA.
 

Ebrietas

Member
Dark Souls is a dead franchise that Miyazaki moved on from. There is no new lore or story to write there, and no specific game idea exclusive to that series. There is a reason From bought Elden Ring from Bamco and not Dark Souls. They don't have any use for it since for all practical purposes, Elden Ring is the new Dark Souls (which itself was just a Demons Souls ripoff due to the Sony copyright). What would From Software make in Dark Souls 4 that they couldn't make in Elden Ring 2?
 
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