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[Banjo64]

Imagine believing that sales are everything. Ignoring the fact that it still managed to sell over a million on PS3, it ABSOLUTELY put them on the map, like, we're talking about the first fucking Souls game.

Isn't remasters and/or remakes exactly what people want Sony to do with their FS games? It happened last gen and it's happening now, and MUCH MORE at that.

That's perfectly reasonable.

Zero actual fucking correlation. We were talking about development workforce here, don't do this goalpost moving shit with me.

The majority of the work force is western. The HQ is western. Is that straight forward enough for you?

 

[nial]

Sony could easily do remaster of Bloodborne even without FROM but the chose not to do it because Horizon makes more money for them.

Same Sony that decided to produce remakes of Demon's Souls and stuff like Until Dawn when neither was going to make as much as either Horizon OR Bloodborne.

Not only FROM previous games, Sony has so many other games from PS2 and PS3 era they can bring to PS5 but they just don’t fucking do it…..let’s release another fucking remaster of Horizon again.

For all it's worth, I'm pretty sure they see remasters of PS2 era (and PS1 and PSP for that matter) stuff as a bad idea when PS Plus Premium exists. You have an argument for PS3 games, but aren't you being a bit hyperbolic when this doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things? How do you exactly apply this fear into the idea of Sony owning From Software?

The majority of the work force is western. The HQ is western. Is that straight forward enough for you?

It was the same case when the HQ was at Tokyo, hence it being completely irrelevant to the conversation. Is that straight forward enough for you?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

that’s xboi level rationale.

From Software will report to Herman Hulst and whatever reprobate replaces him. The thought of it alone is enough to make me scream.

FromSoftware will get the same level of independence that Polyphony Digital gets and no one has complained about that.

The difference though is they can if they want farm out a lot of their work to support studios like Nixxes and Bluepoint.

Through Sony they can essentially cut their workload in half and make bigger and better games and more games. Will that come at the expense of Xbox? Sure, but they'll more than make up for that with increased sales from releasing 3 games in the span of time it would have taken to release 2, six games in the time it would have taken to create 4.

If Firesprite isn't shutdown, they should start making VR modes for PS first party titles. Probably starting with Until Dawn.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sony could easily do remaster of Bloodborne even without FROM but the chose not to do it because Horizon makes more money for them.

I’m telling you. They have a Bloodborne game, whether a remaster/remake or prequel/sequel. It’s about timing with all of this noise.

 

[Danjin44]

Same Sony that decided to produce remakes of Demon's Souls and stuff like Until Dawn when neither was going to make as much as either Horizon OR Bloodborne.

Are you fucking kidding me!? you think Demons Souls as niche as games Another Code, man no offence I’m starting you are working as Sony’s PR or something.

If they remastered games like Puppeteer then I would have agreed with you.

 

[Alebrije]

Be prepared for Dark Souls 4 Character creador

 

[nial]

Are you fucking kidding me!? you think Demons Souls as niche as games Another Code, man no offence I’m starting you are working as Sony’s PR or something.

If they remastered games like Puppeteer then I would have agreed with you.

??? I didn't even address the Another Code part, I was talking in relation to Horizon.

 

[Thief1987]

The meltdowns here have been substantially entertaining. they are far more hilarious on twitter and YouTube

The most hilarious thing that it will change nothing, if the deal will be made it will be made regardless of any outcry, so what's even the point in these tantrums

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I said it before but PC players are going to possibly be fucked by this.

If you're a PC player would you rather

A) Get a broken port day 1 by FromSoftware
B) Get a near perfect release day 365 by Nixxes

In addition, would you rather FromSoftware spend time on the PC port or spend time making their next game?

There is no arguing lol. I never like acquisitions, happening or not. This is the point of the thread, to have a discussion about a subject, not to boot licking. I don't give a shit about what money can or not Sony get with this acquisitions. I already complain about Microsoft buying Activision, will do the same if Sony buy FromSoftware. You guys will not seeing me change my stance.

Did you complain when Kadokawa bought FromSoftware? Or are you against acquisitions by platform holders only? Why limit it? Take it to the extremes then? Why don't you complain about any games being first party?

 

[Danjin44]

??? I didn't even address the Another Code part, I was talking in relation to Horizon.

In 2020 when Dark Souls was huge success, there is no risk remaking/remastering Demon Souls, this is big reason why people baffled why Sony hasn’t remaster Bloodborne yet.

Heck Sony didn’t fucking bothered to properly remaster Jeanne d'Arc, instead they give us half ass emulation of the PSP game, because that too much “risk” to invest on it.

 

[Banjo64]

It was the same case when the HQ was at Tokyo, hence it being completely irrelevant to the conversation. Is that straight forward enough for you?

someone said ps is japanese and they only have an office in america. their hq is in america, their western studios now report to commifornia. ps is as japanese as a big mac. sorry if that’s irrelevant to the convo, although i’m not sure you get to dictate the terms of what’s discussed.

will be one of the worst things that’s ever happened to the industry if this goes through and to be blunt you’ve got bum lickers on here, many of whom pretended to have a moral issue with the ABK deal, saying it’ll be great because sony can implement cinematic help and polish amongst other deluded and demented takes. if you want to play a ‘polished cinematic’ game with sony’s influence just go and enjoy one of the many many many games they release which follow the same template.

 

[ergem]

When you submit a letter of intent (particularly in Japan if it isn't slated as non-binding) it's a declaration that you're going to buy the company assuming closing conditions [listed out in the letter] are met. While still not quite being a tender offer.

It's exactly so that you don't end up getting into a bidding war or end up paying more money for the company because word got out about the intent to acquire.

It's me giving you the amount of money I'm willing to pay for your company, asking you not to talk to anyone else during the period of due diligence about selling your company, asking for you to hand over the relevant financials I'm looking for and perhaps supporting documentation, and that you don't talk to anyone about it publicly.

Ok. But now that the intent to buy has gone public, can’t other players now start to bid?

 

[Dr. Acid Avatar]

Let me know when the avatar bet starts.

 

[bitbydeath]

The HQ is based on California. Really I could have just stopped there. That’s not ‘an office’. PlayStations headquarters is not Japanese. It’s in the US.

I have to say I’m pretty shocked, having been away from this thread for a couple of days, to return to see some PlayStation fans in full on Xboi ABK mode. I’m actually shocked. Some of you need to give your heads a serious wobble.

And?
That doesn’t mean California controls everything other studios do.

 

[ulantan]

And?
That doesn’t mean California controls everything other studios do.

The idea that Herman hulst a dude from Amsterdam and Nashino japanese man are are being puppeted by a few of thier employees in California and not thier japanese boss Totoki is possibly the most delusional shit I've heard today.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Ok. But now that the intent to buy has gone public, can’t other players now start to bid?

No, they can’t. If they agreed to the letter there is an exclusivity period.

 

[Cyber_hunter026]

Japanase Culture is at stake and you take this as a laughing matter? I'm genuinely depressed.

 

[Gideon]

When can we expect a new update for things like this?

 

[Ebrietas]

Japanase Culture is at stake and you take this as a laughing matter? I'm genuinely depressed.

Kadokawa needs to publicly apologize for even considering selling to Sony, or they can kiss their business goodbye.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

 

[Starbuck2907]

You woke crusaders are really tiresome. Tell me, which Sony game has had top scars? Veilguard isn't Sony.

But what they did to Aloy’s face scarred my mind.

Plus, the trash plot of TLOU2. Don’t act like Sony studios aren’t making some terrible decisions regarding plot and character design.

 

[W11d]

The majority of the work force is western. The HQ is western. Is that straight forward enough for you?

So your problem is that they have a lot of studios in West and yet you also have problem when Sony want to have more Japanese studios. You want for Sony to close their western studios or what? Sony is a global company. That's their strength. That's why they need more Asian studios alongside their European and American studios. They are likely interested in Korean studios too

 

[Pimpbaa]

Look if Sony published and helped make Stellar Blade with Shift Up, they ain’t gonna make a japan studio go all woke with their next game. I hope…

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Look if Sony published and helped make Stellar Blade with Shift Up, they ain’t gonna make a japan studio go all woke with their next game. I hope…

because that was Sony Japan

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Be prepared for Dark Souls 4 Character creador

they went full Concord. there is the video of the marketing dude.... and oh boy it sounds like a South Park dialog.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You woke crusaders are really tiresome. Tell me, which Sony game has had top scars? Veilguard isn't Sony.

It's equally tiresome dealing with people who don't want to see it or, even worse, act like that agenda isn't real.

I used to dismiss it, but then I realized that something was really off. (in general)

it is clear to me now, that there is definitively something going on inside Sony (regarding this power dynamic). and ONE aspect that is telling as to why this is the case is: That it's happening inside other companies too.

Sony had its Vanguard with the last of us 2 and Concord. But this has been an underlying issue in the most recent western Sony games.

so, what i am going to say is: This "tiresome" pushback should continue and it should be relentless. fortunately, i don't have to do anything... the internet and the market/economics are doing all the work.

 

[Varteras]

Kadokawa needs to publicly apologize for even considering selling to Sony, or they can kiss their business goodbye.

This guy is right. I'm an expert in Japanese culture.

 

[TheGodfather07]

I remember telling xbox fans that their celebrations about Activision will turn into cries when sony makes a big acquisition and takes away games they love.. but enjoy your back catalogue of Activision games on gamepass.. oh I forgot, they haven't even been added to gamepass yet!

 

[Heisenberg007]

Thanks for the flowers bruv.

I try really hard to give solid analysis, so always appreciate when someone recognizes that.



A lot of people said they sony should buy them, not that they would, nor did they put in a time frame.

How did I get this right? It wasn't luck or random. Sony announced their mid term strategy and how much they planned to spend on M&A. They said they weren't going to favor one segment over another. When you look at how much they had to spend and roughly divided into 3rds, you realize what was on the table and what wasn't. You look at what would give them the best bang for their buck and the answer was obviously Kadokawa/FromSoftware and that it would likely be easier and even less risky just to buy the entire parent company rather than just try and pay a premium for the studio. They also said this mid range plan covered the next 3 fiscal years.

Sony's vision seems pretty clear to me. They want to be a market leader in gaming across platforms, they want to grow their subscription base, and they want to build a IP juggernaut like Disney/Marvel.

In order to do that they need to be able to create their own PC Storefront. How do you do that? You need exclusives that perform well on console and PC. Who is a company they've worked with in the past, have a good relationship with, that sells well on console and PC? Who again is in the ballpark of their budget?

Acquire was a lucky accident.

But when I was younger, I thought they would have blossomed under Sony. I thought Tenchu and Way of the Samurai were great games that just didn't have the budget they needed in order to be major AAA games. I'd love to see them either work with Sucker Punch on expanding the ghost games or use the engine to make a Tenchu game.

CDPR next!

 

[Heisenberg007]

Playstation Headquarters is in California, all of their content is approved there, the censorship happens from there.

And from where does Nintendo censorship happen? Please enlighten us.



https://tanookisite.com/nintendo-censorship/

 

[nani17]

If you're a PC player would you rather

A) Get a broken port day 1 by FromSoftware
B) Get a near perfect release day 365 by Nixxes

In addition, would you rather FromSoftware spend time on the PC port or spend time making their next game?


Did you complain when Kadokawa bought FromSoftware? Or are you against acquisitions by platform holders only? Why limit it? Take it to the extremes then? Why don't you complain about any games being first party?

I would like what we've already got.

 

[nial]

In 2020 when Dark Souls was huge success, there is no risk remaking/remastering Demon Souls, this is big reason why people baffled why Sony hasn’t remaster Bloodborne yet.

It's still Demon's Souls at the end of the day, a very niche game compared to Horizon Zero Dawn, which was your whole point. I also used this year's Until Dawn as an example of this not being always for their big franchises, I mean, Bloodborne outsold Until Dawn by a fair amount, does them only caring about profits apply to this as well?
And I previously said, I don't see AT ALL how this could have anything to do with Sony owning From Software. They aren't going to be put to remaster Horizon games, I'm going to tell you that.

Heck Sony didn’t fucking bothered to properly remaster Jeanne d'Arc, instead they give us half ass emulation of the PSP game, because that too much “risk” to invest on it.

It's not about risk at all, it was a Classics Catalog release mainly done to bolster PS Plus Premium, they're the original PSP games *as they should be*.

 

[Alan Silvestro]

If Sony will buy Kadokawa, will became muliplatform publisher.

 

[nial]

because that was Sony Japan

Producers and all, which is where From Software would be (after all, they were having their shares acquired by Japan-based Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc.).
It's still under supervision of Hermen Hulst like any other PlayStation Studios game.

someone said ps is japanese and they only have an office in america. their hq is in america, their western studios now report to commifornia. ps is as japanese as a big mac. sorry if that’s irrelevant to the convo, although i’m not sure you get to dictate the terms of what’s discussed.

I don't care about any discussion beforehand, I just found that exact point of yours to be dumb and out of nowhere, especially since it could also be used to argue that they weren't exactly a Japanese company previous to 2016. Oh wait, didn't Square Enix do exactly that in 2009?

will be one of the worst things that’s ever happened to the industry if this goes through and to be blunt you’ve got bum lickers on here, many of whom pretended to have a moral issue with the ABK deal, saying it’ll be great because sony can implement cinematic help and polish amongst other deluded and demented takes. if you want to play a ‘polished cinematic’ game with sony’s influence just go and enjoy one of the many many many games they release which follow the same template.

"One of the worst things that's ever happened to this industry" is more of a demented take, to be quite honest with you.

 

[Danjin44]

It's still Demon's Souls at the end of the day, a very niche game compared to Horizon Zero Dawn, which was your whole point. I also used this year's Until Dawn as an example of this not being always for their big franchises, I mean, Bloodborne outsold Until Dawn by a fair amount, does them only caring about profits apply to this as well?
And I previously said, I don't see AT ALL how this could have anything to do with Sony owning From Software. They aren't going to be put to remaster Horizon games, I'm going to tell you that.

Back in 2009 yes but when it released 2020 absolutely not. Now if try to remaster games like Puppeteer now that would be something but current Sony doesn't do that any more.

Sony this gen gone so fucking dull, this why I have no faith in them.

 

[nial]

Back in 2009 yes but when it released 2020 absolutely not.

Compared to Horizon?
As much as people like to put together these action games developed by From Software since the year of 2009, they aren't really seen as the same thing by mainstream audiences; outside of very arguably Dark Souls and Elden Ring, but the rest?
People didn't exactly run to buy Demon's Souls after Elden Ring proved to be a massive success back when it launched, neither when Dark Souls 3 reached a 10M sales milestone earlier in 2020.
Demon's Souls 2020 sold 1.4M units in 10 months, Horizon Forbidden West sold that in 1 day.

 

[demigod]

Back in 2009 yes but when it released 2020 absolutely not. Now if try to remaster games like Puppeteer now that would be something but current Sony doesn't do that any more.

Sony this gen gone so fucking dull, this why I have no faith in them.

You just moved the goalpost and skipped Until Dawn yet again.

 

[Danjin44]

You just moved the goalpost and skipped Until Dawn yet again.

Until Dawn sold 4 milion copies with famous actress face scan, that is not what would call niche compare to game like Another Code or even Armored Core.

 

[demigod]

Until Dawn sold 4 milion copies with famous actress face scan, that is not what would call niche compare to game like Another Code or even Armored Core.

You were comparing sales of horizon to bloodborne.

 

[Danjin44]

You were comparing sales of horizon to bloodborne.

You guys need better understanding meaning of what "niche" actually is....Until Dawn is barely qualified as one.

If thats your idea Sony taking "risk" then thats fucking pathetic.

 

[demigod]

You guys need better understanding meaning of what "niche" actually is....Until Dawn is barely qualified as one.

If thats your idea Sony taking "risk" then thats fucking pathetic.

Do I seriously need to explain to you why you were wrong. Until Dawn sold less than Bloodborne yet it got a remake.

 

[nial]

You guys need better understanding meaning of what "niche" actually is....Until Dawn is barely qualified as one.

If thats your idea Sony taking "risk" then thats fucking pathetic.

I mean, I used terms like "compared to" and "in relation to" for a reason.
Your entire point from the very beginning was that Sony only remastered big profitable games like TLOU and Horizon, that even something like 8M seller Bloodborne was not even worth it for them.

Because this gen Sony cares far more about profit more than ever, this why like remastering game that fucking Horizon and Last of Us because those are the games that makes big buck for them.

Sony could easily do remaster of Bloodborne even without FROM but the chose not to do it because Horizon makes more money for them.

Later, I brought up the fact that Sony has produced remasters/remakes of games that sold far less than Bloodborne, but then you keep using Another Code-tier games an examples, when that has nothing to do with what was initially discussed.
But I'm honestly still more interested in hearing how this would affect the way From Software functions were they under Sony. You also mentioned that their games are mega sellers nowadays and all that, so what exactly are you worried in?

 

[midnightAI]

I’m telling you. They have a Bloodborne game, whether a remaster/remake or prequel/sequel. It’s about timing with all of this noise.

I'd like to think so too. But I have a feeling that there hasn't been a Bloodborne remaster/remake due to contractual reasons, something along the lines of if there is to be one then From have to do it themselves (which they haven't had time to do due to Elden Ring)

 

[yurinka]

You guys need better understanding meaning of what "niche" actually is....Until Dawn is barely qualified as one.

Until Dawn sold 4 milion copies with famous actress face scan, that is not what would call niche compare to game like Another Code or even Armored Core.

Compared to the over half a dozen Sony IPs that sell over 15-20 million units per game it's niche.

because that was Sony Japan

Hermen Hulst and Jim Ryan were the ones who signed it as head of PS Studios and CEO of SIE, and they didn't work from Japan (or USA).

Ok. But now that the intent to buy has gone public, can’t other players now start to bid?

Kadokawa didn't ask for bids, meaning that as of now they are only listening Sony's offer and only did talk about it because it got leaked. Maybe Kadokawa is only interested on Sony or maybe aren't really interested to sell. Once they do an audit/ due diligence and get and negotiate a final offer with Sony, if Kadokawa rejects it, they could ask for bids, or not.

Until then, maybe someone could try a hostile takeover, but I assume won't happen because it would be too desperate and dumb because the acquisition may be almost agreed.

 

[lh032]

I'd like to think so too. But I have a feeling that there hasn't been a Bloodborne remaster/remake due to contractual reasons, something along the lines of if there is to be one then From have to do it themselves (which they haven't had time to do due to Elden Ring)

Bloodborne remake + original dlc by bluepoint , lets go .

 

[nial]

I'd like to think so too. But I have a feeling that there hasn't been a Bloodborne remaster/remake due to contractual reasons, something along the lines of if there is to be one then From have to do it themselves (which they haven't had time to do due to Elden Ring)

Eh, no chance.
Most likely that only From Software can handle an actual remake (and yes, remake, I don't see Sony settling for a remaster after Demon's Souls).
Demon's Souls was a special case of Japan Studio teaming up with Bluepoint; with the former leading the project (courtesy of Puppeteer's director, Gavin Moore), and the latter following around with its great technical expertise applied to the old game as a complex coat of paint.
Gavin Moore and some of that Japan Studio crew that worked on the DS remake are not longer around at SIE, all while Bluepoint seems to be doing its own thing with other studios, particularly with Santa Monica Studio; I wouldn't be surprised if this new game they always talk about is a co-development project with SMS much like how Guerrilla and Studio Gobo made LEGO Horizon Adventures, or you know, Demon's Souls with Japan Studio.

 

[yurinka]

Eh, no chance.
Most likely that only From Software can handle an actual remake (and yes, remake, I don't see Sony settling for a remaster after Demon's Souls).
Demon's Souls was a special case of Japan Studio teaming up with Bluepoint; with the former leading the project (courtesy of Puppeteer's director, Gavin Moore), and the latter following around with its great technical expertise applied to the old game as a complex coat of paint.
Gavin Moore and some of that Japan Studio crew that worked on the DS remake are not longer around at SIE, all while Bluepoint seems to be doing its own thing with other studios, particularly with Santa Monica Studio; I wouldn't be surprised if this new game they always talk about is a co-development project with SMS much like how Guerrilla and Studio Gobo made LEGO Horizon Adventures, or you know, Demon's Souls with Japan Studio.

Many of the Japan Studio staff who worked on Demon's Souls continue there and worked in more recent releases of either Team Asobi or XDEV Japan.

Bluepoint said they moved away from making remakes and remasters and that going forward they'll work (as support team) in new games only, as they did in GoWR.

Gavin Moore left to work in F2P mobile games.

Miyazaki said he doesn't see the point on remastering/remake Bloodborne now, that would make more sense to wait at least until the next generation, keeping a 2 generation window as they did with Demon's Souls.

Producers and all, which is where From Software would be (after all, they were having their shares acquired by Japan-based Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc.).

SIE is US based, the Sony Group is the Japan-based one.

Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc. is the name of the regional subsidiary for Japan of the global SIE (Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC).

The other regional subsidiaries are:

• Sony Interactive Entertainment America LLC
• Sony Interactive Entertainment Europe Limited
• Sony Interactive Entertainment Japan Asia
• Sony Interactive Entertainment Korea
• Sony Interactive Entertainment Singapore
• Sony Interactive Entertainment Taiwan
• Sony Interactive Entertainment Shanghai
• Sony Interactive Entertainment Hong Kong

The regional subsidiary for Japan isn't called Sony Interactive Entertainment Japan because before the global HQ was moved to USA, the global HQ/company was Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc.

The regional subsidiary signed the paperwork because it's better for the paperwork. But the decision and the deal were made by Jim Ryan and Hermen Hulst.

 

[ToadMan]

Why would anyone celebrate this? Legit question. Is it just about being a fanboy and giving people the middle finger to other gamers like it’s 2002 or something.

After the travesty that was the ABK buyout, consolidation via acquisitions and mergers are going to happen - that genie is out of the bottle. Regulators had an opportunity to stop it, they didn't, here we are.

The celebration (using your word - I don't see anything celebratory about it) is that Sony acquiring Kadokawa and therefore From amongst others, is about the best outcome gamers can expect in a post ABK acquisition timeline.

It could be a lot worse - in particular Kadokawa being gobbled up whole by a company for whom gaming (Japanese gaming in particular) is a sideline, as happened to Tango. From may be preserved, but what about Acquire and Spike?

Not to mention all the other stuff Kado has in the Anime and Manga domains - which would be throwaway items or an excuse for locking of content in yet another subscription.

Kado have a disparate portfolio, and while many companies would like parts, not many want all of it. Sony is about the only purchaser who would value the whole piece because Kadokawa as a whole aligns with their existing businesses.

 

[nial]

Many of the Japan Studio staff who worked on Demon's Souls continue there and worked in more recent releases of either Team Asobi or XDEV Japan.

XDEV isn't part of the talk as that's external production (and only Kazuma Kizuka and Edward Saito moved there).
I only know of Shunan Sukawa (animator) and Toshitake Tsuchikura (lead programmer) from the development team that remained at Team Asobi.
There's obviously a lot of general Japan Studio staff that are still at SIEJ, but I'm specifically talking about the Demon's Souls development team here.

 

[yurinka]

XDEV isn't part of the talk as that's external production (and only Kazuma Kizuka and Edward Saito moved there).
I only know of Shunan Sukawa (animator) and Toshitake Tsuchikura (lead programmer) from the development team that remained at Team Asobi.
There's obviously a lot of general Japan Studio staff that are still at SIEJ, but I'm specifically talking about the Demon's Souls development team here.

XDEV's -a.k.a. External Development- Japanese team (previously inside Japan Studio since they merged) is the one who handled games like Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, Demon's Souls Remake or more recently -after the restructuring- Death Stranding Director's Cut, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Lost Soul Aside, Convallaria, Death Stranding 2 or Physint.

They continue doing the same job than before in the same building they were before: the Japanese SIE HQ building. But in a newer office because now they also handle the games from the rest of Asia, not only the Japanese ones.

In Moby Games you can double check who worked both in Demon's Souls remake and in Astro Bot, Stellar Blade or Rise of the Ronin.

Demon's Soul's remake was developed and published before the Bluepoint acquisition, so it was a 2nd party game, so handled by XDEV, like the other games I mentioned. Even if as usual there's someone from the internal development teams supporting these games. As happened multiple times in Japan Studio, or in Santa Monica when they still had the American XDEV team inside their studio, or in Liverpool Studio when they still had the European XDEV team inside their studio.