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KILLZONE 2 - The |OT|

AranhaHunter said:
They did a very poor job trying to convince people that they're not biased.

Not that I think Edge is biased, because I read the review and honestly I didn't have a problem with it. But if you're trying to prove you're not you don't run the numbers, realize that they are consistently lower and then give them out anyway... that's just stupid.

I mean seriously learn when to lie people.
 

methane47

Member
just read the backstory... and man.. i'm feeling kinda guilty alil bit that I'm gonna kill about 3 thousand helgast in the game who have become this way because of YEARS AND YEARS of oppression :(

Backstory is cool though... but i'm not sure who the good guys are.
 

____

Member
AranhaHunter said:
They did a very poor job trying to convince people that they're not biased.

Edit link plz? :lol

This thread is gonna de-rail.

And not to mention it being quoted at the TOP of the page
 

Kittonwy

Banned
methane47 said:
just read the backstory... and man.. i'm feeling kinda guilty alil bit that I'm gonna kill about 3 thousand helgast in the game who have become this way because of YEARS AND YEARS of oppression :(

Backstory is cool though... but i'm not sure who the good guys are.

They're trying to destroy teh people of earth, thus they're evil and evil must be teh beaten, again and again AND AGAIN.
angry.gif
 

sykoex

Lost all credibility.
methane47 said:
just read the backstory... and man.. i'm feeling kinda guilty alil bit that I'm gonna kill about 3 thousand helgast in the game who have become this way because of YEARS AND YEARS of oppression :(

Backstory is cool though... but i'm not sure who the good guys are.
They need to have you play as a Helghast soldier in KZ3.
 

Mik2121

Member
methane47 said:
just read the backstory... and man.. i'm feeling kinda guilty alil bit that I'm gonna kill about 3 thousand helgast in the game who have become this way because of YEARS AND YEARS of oppression :(

Backstory is cool though... but i'm not sure who the good guys are.
Obviously the Helghasts are the good guys. I bet they have sad faces being hidden by the masks... :((((((((
 

Pojo

Banned
AranhaHunter said:
Yeah I think that's a bullshit trophy also.....
It is the most bullshit trophy I've ever seen. It's worse than the games that force you to beat two other difficulty setting before you can unlock the hardest one to get the last trophy.
 

.GqueB.

Banned
Iain Howe said:
I'm talking about the disconnect between a protagonist you see as YOU versus a protagonist that you see as some talking head in a cutscene.

In FPS games you are literally IN the head of the protagonist and the game plays out as if you're actually him. Then cue a cutscene and suddenly he's in third person and acting in a way that you don't recognise as belonging to him.

So, yeah, active versus passive entertainment is sort of THE point here. The protagonist can't be made to act or speak in a manner that is consistent with the way that YOU the player, play him in the game sections. Even in a game like KZ2 there's a big difference between the play styles for various people - cold blooded assassin, passionate beserker. Do you use minimum force and never shoot the wounded? Or do you shred people with hails of fire, even when they're down? Do you finish your downed opponents with a last headshot and delight in your bodycount?

Imagine how a cutscene painting you as a humanitarian or a cold killer could jar - the character playing out a role that totally contradicts how YOU see them.

So, obviously, you minimise the lines the protagonist says, for that reason.
Your posting style is showing me that this 'discussion' will never... ever go anywhere so I'll end with this.

My rhetorical question to you is why cant the protagonist be made to act or speak in a manner that is consistent with the way that YOU the player, play him in the game sections? Your second paragraph makes perfect sense to me and when developers can get THAT to work thats when we can move to the next step.

My main, first and ONLY point was that they have not fully figured this out yet and I feel as if they should because what they are doing now makes no sense to me. And I feel as if when they do actually figure this out, it will push narrative in games forward immensely. We dont know much about the game but Heavy Rain tackles something very interesting to me. The "what if". What if I died, what happens next? What if Sev fails and doesnt open the flood gate then what. I find things like this interesting.

You say "So, obviously, you minimize the lines the protagonist says, for that reason." That to me is the easy way out and whats more it NEVER works and almost always comes off as stupid. Why accept the easy way out and then ask for something "new" when they can barely figure out the old shit. Is that really what we want?

Think abooooooot it.
 

Mik2121

Member
Pojo said:
It is the most bullshit trophy I've ever seen. It's worse than the games that force you to beat two other difficulty setting before you can unlock the hardest one to get the last trophy.
For some reason actually I like that trophy... It will mean some serious gaming online, lulz :D Plus, it's just a trophy, not something to really get upset at..
 

WinFonda

Member
G-Bus said:
Youtube please!

stupid site.
I can't do that, but I can summarize it for you.

Stephen Totilo asks the question if newness or innovation is important to a game. He references Killzone 2 reviews.

Ken Levine says it isn't, going on to say that his wife makes him the same pizza more than once a week, and that's fine with him because it's a great pizza. He says it's the same way with games. If it's fun and cool, then he doesn't care whether or not it does anything new. He said there were some cases where games that did new things (he cited GTA3) yielded so much fun not simply because they were new or different just for the sake of being new and different, but because those new experiences were so much fun.

He went on to say that a game like KZ2 is going to get scrutinized more because there is so much to compare it to, while something like World of Goo may have more flaws but isn't as scrutinized because there's nothing to really compare it to.

Todd of Bethesda agrees, says he hasn't played KZ2 but has seen a lot of videos for it. He compliments the game on its visual fidelity and says he is impressed as a game designer by all the little things like reload animations, bobbing, field of view, and other effects that the game gets right. He continues by saying you can often tell whether or not an FPS game sucks by a "5 second test" of looking at the gun and how it's placed and positioned on screen, and he says the Killzone 2 guns look awesome. He wrapped it up by saying he's excited by the game.

That was pretty much it.
 

Kittonwy

Banned
WinFonda said:
I can't do that, but I can summarize it for you.

Stephen Totilo asks the question if newness or innovation is important to a game. He references Killzone 2 reviews.

Ken Levine says it isn't, going on to say that his wife makes him the same pizza more than once a week, and that's fine with him because it's a great pizza. He says it's the same way with games. If it's fun and cool, then he doesn't care whether or not it does anything new. He said there were some cases where games that did new things (he cited GTA3) yielded so much fun not simply because they were new or different just for the sake of being new and different, but because those new experiences were so much fun.

He went on to say that a game like KZ2 is going to get scrutinized more because there is so much to compare it to, while something like World of Goo may have more flaws but isn't as scrutinized because there's nothing to really compare it to.

Todd of Bethesda agrees, says he hasn't played KZ2 but has seen a lot of videos for it. He compliments the game on its visual fidelity and says he is impressed as a game designer by all the little things like reload animations, bobbing, field of view, and other effects that the game gets right. He continues by saying you can often tell whether or not an FPS game sucks by a "5 second test" of looking at the gun and how it's placed and positioned on screen, and he says the Killzone 2 guns look awesome. He wrapped it up by saying he's excited by the game.

That was pretty much it.

A great steak grilled to perfection served rare with horse radish is a great steak grilled to perfection served rare with horse radish, I don't really need no m&ms on it just so it can be an innovative dish.
angry.gif
 

Mik2121

Member
dralla said:
I guess no one cares about my stunning discovery.

:/
I'm not at home now so I can't check, but.. are you sure it's just disappearing?. Sounds like something they would have already noticed while debugging...
 

Iain Howe

don't ask me for codes
Yeah, the minute you invent a dongle for mind reading and they get a 'script writing on the fly' engine into games, we'll have that problem licked.
 

Orlics

Member
from a comment from that boring edge blog whatever bla i hate numbers said:
Being 22 points away from the Metacritic, a 7/10 is a slap in the face not only to GG and Sony, but to all devs everywhere. Work hard on a game only to have your groundbreaking work torn apart by the agenda of a fansite hiding behind an anonymous review.

I hate hate HATE it when people say this. EVERYONE works hard as fuck on every commercial product they're responsible for. Oh my god, Roger Ebert didn't like Transformers (just an example, I don't know whether he liked it or he didn't). Think of the hundreds of staff, extras, DPs, directors, gaffers, janitors who worked their ASSES off on the Transformers set for two years, just to have their multi-million dollar work TORN APART by this fucking no-name journalist with an AGENDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please.
 

icechai

Member
Mik2121 said:
For some reason actually I like that trophy... It will mean some serious gaming online, lulz :D Plus, it's just a trophy, not something to really get upset at..

worse comes to worse just wait like a year or 2 later pop it in for a wk and get that platinum you've been missing :p
 

Mik2121

Member
icechai said:
worse comes to worse just wait like a year or 2 later pop it in for a wk and get that platinum you've been missing :p
I actually will try to get it in the first weeks, before everybody gets too good at the game :D
 

icechai

Member
Kittonwy said:
A great steak grilled to perfection served rare with horse radish is a great steak grilled to perfection served rare with horse radish, I don't really need no m&ms on it just so it can be an innovative dish.
angry.gif

what i think is missing is that a lot of stuff KZ2 gets right is innovative but more subtle, and its only after we start playing it a lot (citing multiplayer beta for me personally) and go back to other games that we realize something is missing. From the reviews it just seems like they were expecting some world changing experience and failing that they would have to drop a point or two. Its like they weren't expecting a grilled steak, but rather they thought they'd get some sauce reduced gastronomic meat that brings a new meaning to steak.
 

methane47

Member
.GqueB. said:
Your posting style is showing me that this 'discussion' will never... ever go anywhere so I'll end with this.

My rhetorical question to you is why cant the protagonist be made to act or speak in a manner that is consistent with the way that YOU the player, play him in the game sections? Your second paragraph makes perfect sense to me and when developers can get THAT to work thats when we can move to the next step.

My main, first and ONLY point was that they have not fully figured this out yet and I feel as if they should because what they are doing now makes no sense to me. And I feel as if when they do actually figure this out, it will push narrative in games forward immensely. We dont know much about the game but Heavy Rain tackles something very interesting to me. The "what if". What if I died, what happens next? What if Sev fails and doesnt open the flood gate then what. I find things like this interesting.

You say "So, obviously, you minimize the lines the protagonist says, for that reason." That to me is the easy way out and whats more it NEVER works and almost always comes off as stupid. Why accept the easy way out and then ask for something "new" when they can barely figure out the old shit. Is that really what we want?

Think abooooooot it.

It was soo Jarring for me when I'd be driving up and down GTA4 in like a convertable in a suit, chillin like a villian.. coming from a strip club and a comedy show.. And coming from scoring on a date.. then i start a mission.. and Niko is all like

"WHAT THE F$#) MOTHER RUSSIA #*(!) BACK IN THE WAR #)(@#() ARRGGHHH #)# RAWR!!!"
I was always like... why the hell is niko shouting for?
 
Strike said:
So, uh, when are they going to start airing commercials?

Game commercials typically don't start until a week before or the week of a games release. And Jeff has mentioned on the PSblog that the commercial will be posted there before it starts airing.
 

.GqueB.

Banned
Iain Howe said:
Yeah, the minute you invent a dongle for mind reading and they get a 'script writing on the fly' engine into games, we'll have that problem licked.
Who said anything about mind reading? You yourself said that itd all depend on how YOU play the game in certain sections. A lot of games touch on this. Hell even Infamous is.

And as I said, Heavy Rain is touching on the idea of on the fly script writing. Or at least touching on the scenario where what you as the gamer has a tangible impact on...

you know what never mind.
 
Edge reviewers should read this over and over again, and maybe once in a while try and manage to lower that raised eye brow.

Anton Ego said:
In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is more meaningful than our criticism designating it so.
 

Mik2121

Member
Kittonwy said:
They're trying to destroy teh people of earth, thus they're evil and evil must be teh beaten, again and again AND AGAIN.
angry.gif
You will eat my Helghast bullets online like crazy. Stupid ISA lover
angry.gif






(You know I'm kidding! Though Helghasts >>> ISA)
 

Awntawn

Member
Cat in the Hat said:
Really interesting what Todd Howard said about just the first impression of FPSs, lol. I agree with it, one of the reasons why I feel that from the initial reveal even without trying the game there was just so much hype for this game despite the lack of track record. It just looked like it would be a much better game than the first one in every way even just by watching it.
 
lol @ edge response. That response was equivalent to the good ol "I'm not racist, I've had 3 black people at my house" schtick.
 

Saiyu

Junior Member
PartlyCloudlike said:
Edge reviewers should read this over and over again, and maybe once in a while try and manage to lower that raised eye brow.

<3 that film.

Oh, and is there a wallpaper with that picture from the EU bundle? I swear I've seen something similar with all of them in line....
 

deepbrown

Member
WinFonda said:
I can't do that, but I can summarize it for you.

Stephen Totilo asks the question if newness or innovation is important to a game. He references Killzone 2 reviews.

Ken Levine says it isn't, going on to say that his wife makes him the same pizza more than once a week, and that's fine with him because it's a great pizza. He says it's the same way with games. If it's fun and cool, then he doesn't care whether or not it does anything new. He said there were some cases where games that did new things (he cited GTA3) yielded so much fun not simply because they were new or different just for the sake of being new and different, but because those new experiences were so much fun.

He went on to say that a game like KZ2 is going to get scrutinized more because there is so much to compare it to, while something like World of Goo may have more flaws but isn't as scrutinized because there's nothing to really compare it to.

Todd of Bethesda agrees, says he hasn't played KZ2 but has seen a lot of videos for it. He compliments the game on its visual fidelity and says he is impressed as a game designer by all the little things like reload animations, bobbing, field of view, and other effects that the game gets right. He continues by saying you can often tell whether or not an FPS game sucks by a "5 second test" of looking at the gun and how it's placed and positioned on screen, and he says the Killzone 2 guns look awesome. He wrapped it up by saying he's excited by the game.

That was pretty much it.

The point of innovation is to surprise you and surprise the player. If it doesn't the game can feel old and stale. However, Killzone 2 DOES surprise you in the game - in level design, in delivery, in its visuals and setting. So it doesn't have the failings of a game that doesn't innovate and doesn't surprise the player.
 
dralla said:
did anyone notice the little loop on the end of the ISA rifle dissapears when you look down the scope?
I did, and it did the same thing in the beta. It gets removed because it would get in the sights way, the sight is to low for practicality
 
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