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KILLZONE 2 - The |OT|

careful said:
I don't remember the exact quote, but I think last week they said they needed more time for testing, but the patch would come soon. I'm losing hope a bit for this week, but it better come soon (next week).

I'm not sure how the numbers look for other PS3 online shooters, but looking at the stagnant player base after a month, they must be asking some questions and trying to figure out how to get more ppl to play or at least to keep the people playing.

My ideas

- Party system
- An actual Playlist with matchmaking ( no server searching, thats only if you want to play unranked games)
- find a way to make other guns more useful, it just seems there are only 4 guns in the game (ISAssault rifle, SMG, shotgun and sniper) because they are the easiest ones to use, people need more variety.
- balance classes ( assault class, tactician spawn point etc)
 

Nafai1123

Banned
Zen said:
To each their own, I think they had a unique opportunity with Killzone 2 to make something (in terms of amount of players, balance and overall fun) that could be mentioned to be popular online in the same way that CoD is on the Playstation, and they dropped the ball on the multiplayer. Even if they get in a party system tommorow, it's too late for that, but they can at least stabilize thir diminishing player abse somewhat.

You don't think that all those people who bought the game won't jump back in once they hear a new patch is out?
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
careful said:
I don't remember the exact quote, but I think last week they said they needed more time for testing, but the patch would come soon. I'm losing hope a bit for this week, but it better come soon (next week).

I'm not sure how the numbers look for other PS3 online shooters, but looking at the stagnant player base after a month, they must be asking some questions and trying to figure out how to get more ppl to play or at least to keep the people playing.


They underestimated the number of people that like to play with no respawn. They are ALL leaving.
 

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
I like it alot still, but there are barriers. The community is shit. Every round might as well be body count with public servers. My own teammate killed me in my last game to defuse a bomb spot, and that spelled the end of my night.

I think it says a lot about the ability/badge system that there's basically a billion "help us cheat/spam" rooms so people can get them.

Again, not trying to bag on the game, but it's definitely showing it's weaknesses. I'm just hoping they'll be responsive and they have a plan in place.
 

Raist

Banned
Musashi Wins! said:
I like it alot still, but there are barriers. The community is shit. Every round might as well be body count with public servers. My own teammate killed me in my last game to defuse a bomb spot, and that spelled the end of my night.

I think it says a lot about the ability/badge system that there's basically a billion "help us cheat/spam" rooms so people can get them.

Again, not trying to bag on the game, but it's definitely showing it's weaknesses. I'm just hoping they'll be responsive and they have a plan in place.


Pretty much. I've been playing almost exclusively clan tourneys/challenges lately. And threw in a couple of random matches. It was basically boring and/or frustrating.
People running around without trying to help for the objectives, shooting your turrets/drones down to place their own (this would be easily fixed by making turrets attack ANYONE shooting at it.) etc etc.
I mostly play BC only when I join random matches, saves a bit of the pain.
 

careful

Member
OK, let's just assume for a moment that party/matchmaking truly cannot be implemented in their backend and there's absolutely no way around it.. :(

Actually, I don't really see a problem with creating a grouping of players (party) and letting them chat in some lobby together. The problem is most probably with the matchmaking that's incompatible with the server/game search implementation.

So then what options are there to improve the current system?

My 2 cents:
1) Disable team stacking for non balanced games. This is seriously the most fucked up design decision I've seen. Why would you want to allow 12 vs 4 in a 16p game??? WHY?? Did GG want to stealth include a base camping game type? :p
This point has often been the cause of some of my most frustrating moments with KZ2.
But I'm somewhat of a hardcore fan, so I stuck with it, but I can imagine semi casual dude getting base camped in team stacked game wondering wtf is going on and getting turned off by the online.

2) More search options and ability to view all game settings before joining a game.
- in search results, only display games with # of available slot on one faction >= party size (or a certain number specified in a search field)
- when joining a game, let me see my friends and their current team faction
- auto squading friends/clan and full voice chat among friends/clan in same faction (regardless of distance)
- search by server name
- display the ping for each game on search results


Having said all that, I would still rather have a full party/matchmaking implementation, so definitely keep pushing for that guys. If everyone keeps demanding it, we can make it happen!
 

Kuroyume

Banned
careful said:
I'm not sure how the numbers look for other PS3 online shooters, but looking at the stagnant player base after a month, they must be asking some questions and trying to figure out how to get more ppl to play or at least to keep the people playing.

Well that's the thing worth considering. Anyone know how many people play WaW or R2? If this was on the 360 I believe it would be at number 1 or 2. I don't think it's the game.

Btw, FACTION BALANCE MAN

FACTION BALANCE
 

Azzwanker

Banned
Is it me or do people die easier after the update :)

Did I get better? Or what?

When the game just came out I needed a whole mag to kill someone. Now its done with 4 bullets
 

Zen

Banned
Kuroyume said:
Well that's the thing worth considering. Anyone know how many people play WaW or R2? If this was on the 360 I believe it would be at number 1 or 2. I don't think it's the game.

Btw, FACTION BALANCE MAN

FACTION BALANCE

I had a friend who, a week after Cod WaW came out, said taht he routinely saw 200k concurrent players on XBL. For what little that's worth.
 
I really like this game but the ribbon/medal system is stupid. It basically asks for farming or screwing the other guy first to do the objectives or build your turrets.

The leveling up badge system though has points which eventually gets you rank is fine. That is acceptable as everyone will get there eventually.

The medals/ribbon system wouldn't be quite so imbalanced and bad except that the power ups are so important that if you don't unlock them you and your team will get killed.
 

obaidr

Banned
Killzone has the best online play i ever experienced in my life. The online play give you so many opportunities to earn points. You can just run arround and heal you guys, you can run for the whole tasks or just kill other players. This game is the reason why i did not touch resi 5 already. It just keeps delivering. I cant wait for the first DLC. I would love to see some earth maps as well :D With a lof of colors etc. That would be totally awesome.
 

Lince

Banned
reason why people would quit playing Killzone 2 online

- frustration in 32p games, casuals don't read the forums and learn 8-14p games are the real deal, they just can take 2-3 days of nonsense clusterfuck rocket launcher whoring + assault + boost + shotgun + grenades flying everywhere + lag + horrible framerate.

(even 8-14p games with FF enabled and assault class disabled are clusterfucks due to the lame spawn point invincibility thing)

reason why people would play Killzone 2 online again

- no respawn mode, basically copy Counter-Strike, one team trying to plant C4 in the objective and the other one defending, changing roles after a couple of rounds and see which team performed better. Party system is a must of course.


I'm enjoying the game, but I need to put a lot of dedication to find a nice game going among the hordes of rocket launcher assaults / saboteurs boosting or trophy-whoring players ruining the experience for the rest.


edit: also, why spawning with two fucking grenades making it three in the nearest ammo box?¿? where's the tactical gameplay¿?¿ I can camp some ammo box and start tossing grenades like a bitch, placing a spawn point right by the box just for maximum lol.

fix this shit Guerrilla !
 

JudgeN

Member
Its real sad that what it has come down to for killzone 2 is to start copying every other popular ever FPS created.

killzone 2 aka Couter strike clone aka COD clone aka whatever.

Fix the assualt class, take away the rocket launcher/granade launcher, fix the spawn point invincibility, let us see the server options, and call it a day. From there start working on bigger maps.
 

icechai

Member
JudgeN said:
Its real sad that what it has come down to for killzone 2 is to start copying every other popular ever FPS created.

killzone 2 aka Couter strike clone aka COD clone aka whatever.

Fix the assualt class, take away the rocket launcher/granade launcher, fix the spawn point invincibility, let us see the server options, and call it a day. From there start working on bigger maps.

yeah, people just want to make this game into what they're familiar with. Don't think you need to take away the grenade launcher, based on custom games it seems assault without rocket launcher is enough to balance things out.

Also if they don't show server options when searching for servers in the next update, that would be epic fail. I mean, i would much rather join auto balance + ff public servers, unfortunately there's no way to check that at the moment.

and unlike some, i much prefer server searching than playlists. Maybe its all those hours of CS and Warhawk but its much more convenient to see how many people are in a game/what maps are on before you jump into it
 

Lince

Banned
JudgeN said:
Fix the assualt class, take away the rocket launcher/granade launcher, fix the spawn point invincibility, let us see the server options, and call it a day. From there start working on bigger maps.

yes that's what we want to see in Killzone 2... not sure how or when but Guerrilla definitely made some mistakes when planning and balancing classes. The Counter-Strike no respawn thing is just an idea for an additional game mode which surely would get back a lot of players that are quitting now.

icechai said:
Don't think you need to take away the grenade launcher

it must go away, at least for "ranked" games.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
JudgeN said:
Its real sad that what it has come down to for killzone 2 is to start copying every other popular ever FPS created.

killzone 2 aka Couter strike clone aka COD clone aka whatever.
How does Killzone 2 compare to Counter Strike and COD? I used to play quite alot of Counter Strike and i used to play abit COD1 as well, and i cant say that i think of these 2 games when i think of Killzone 2.


JudgeN said:
Fix the assualt class, take away the rocket launcher/granade launcher, fix the spawn point invincibility, let us see the server options, and call it a day. From there start working on bigger maps.
Couldnt a non-invinicbility spawn points be exploited though? If you get like 3-4 team mates to stand around the spawn point, and then you can just shoot everyone that comes through that spawn point easily. Then this spawn point wouldnt be much of use, which means that you would have to start back at the base to be save. If the map were bigger as well, then this could pontentially lead to alot more running, which some people probably would find annoying :\ I wouldnt mind bigger maps though, but i am just wondering how well bigger maps would work combined with non-invincibility spawn points.

And ye, it would be nice if we could see the server options :)
 

GodofWine

Member
From Seb at KZ forums:

Hi All,

I am back, if briefly, www.killzone.com is up and seems stable right now, so that is good news. Also I advise you check out the Billinghurst article on the site toda, here. I like it a lot. Also check out the second part of the Killzone Chronicals, where take a look back at the early development time. part 1 is here. There is more content in those links than you can shake a dirty stick at.

Anyway, down to business. Pending any unforseen problems, early next week patch 1.21 will be released. I’ll confirm the timings on Monday. The patch includes the following:

-Increase of the standard points settings for Bodycount. Should ensure longer mode on heavily populated games.
-The return of Online Bots. Adding bots to an online game renders it ‘unranked’.
-The option to create unranked games. Players will be made aware that a game is unranked upon joining.
-Fix to Game Search functionality so correct maps are displayed.
-Standardization of the Y-Axis controls on the HGH Scout when zoomed with the Sniper Rifle.
-Fix to Sensitivity setting where the weapon animation did not follow the reticule correctly.
-Fix for auto-aim exploit when rapidly tapping zoom/fire.
-Fix to infrequent collision issues with C4 Proximity mines.
-Fix to list of games displayed on search.
-Stability fix relating to disconnect.
-Fix to ‘Clan’ button functionality in custom game creation settings.

We are also working on the next updates and here are some of the areas we are exploring and investigating for the future patches:

-Controls. Seeing about giving more options.
-Expanding on Join Game searches and options.
-Improving game and network stability.
-Collision exploits on maps.
-Improvements to help play with friends.
-More game creation options.
-More game options for clans.
-Fixes to Clans unexpectadly losing tournament rounds.
-Other minor fixes.

Now the above does not include the DLC updates that we are working on and they wont all come straight away, but I wanted to give you an idea of the areas we are exploring. If anything else pops up we will of course add that too More on future updates soon.

All the best and will be in touch Monday. have a nice weekend.

Seb



Seb Downie - Producer - Guerrilla Games

Is it harder to 1) fix the spawn grenades 2) edit assaults weapon layout 3) move search and destroy targets to different spots in game (people sprint to them before the game mode is announced since they never move)

Unfortunately nothing thats being fixed in1.21 I see as a glaring issue.
 
man last night was rough :lol

We are also working on the next updates and here are some of the areas we are exploring and investigating for the future patches:

-Controls. Seeing about giving more options.
-Expanding on Join Game searches and options.
-Improving game and network stability.
-Collision exploits on maps.
-Improvements to help play with friends.
-More game creation options.
-More game options for clans.
-Fixes to Clans unexpectadly losing tournament rounds.
-Other minor fixes.

i hope that means exploring a party system
 

scitek

Member
Just started the campaign last night. The graphics are :O, and killing the Helghast is so satisfying because of the awesome death animations and hit detection, and because they don't take an ungodly amount of shots to down. The controls took some messing-with to get right, but being able to set melee to the right stick and zoom to L1 and HOLD = win. Gonna try out some online later. Anything wrong with it I should know about?
 
Lince said:
reason why people would quit playing Killzone 2 online

- frustration in 32p games, casuals don't read the forums and learn 8-14p games are the real deal, they just can take 2-3 days of nonsense clusterfuck rocket launcher whoring + assault + boost + shotgun + grenades flying everywhere + lag + horrible framerate.

(even 8-14p games with FF enabled and assault class disabled are clusterfucks due to the lame spawn point invincibility thing)

reason why people would play Killzone 2 online again

- no respawn mode, basically copy Counter-Strike, one team trying to plant C4 in the objective and the other one defending, changing roles after a couple of rounds and see which team performed better. Party system is a must of course.


I'm enjoying the game, but I need to put a lot of dedication to find a nice game going among the hordes of rocket launcher assaults / saboteurs boosting or trophy-whoring players ruining the experience for the rest.


edit: also, why spawning with two fucking grenades making it three in the nearest ammo box?¿? where's the tactical gameplay¿?¿ I can camp some ammo box and start tossing grenades like a bitch, placing a spawn point right by the box just for maximum lol.

fix this shit Guerrilla !


Check your connection it doesn't lag for me at all,and i never have experience bad framerate either.


You start with just one you get 2 as you progress,i don't know if you get 3 by unlucking other badges,since i am a general and i spawn with 2,also taking amo take like 2 or 3 seconds in which you can get shot quite easy.But i have done that my self :lol granade granade granade and refuel but 16 vs 16 there is so much going around that it doesn't take long for some one to spot you and kill you.
 

No_Style

Member
GodofWine said:
From Seb at KZ forums:



Is it harder to 1) fix the spawn grenades 2) edit assaults weapon layout 3) move search and destroy targets to different spots in game (people sprint to them before the game mode is announced since they never move)

Unfortunately nothing thats being fixed in1.21 I see as a glaring issue.

They're addressing a lot of the minor issues I have with this game.

YES!
 

GodofWine

Member
Tormentoso said:
Check your connection it doesn't lag for me at all,and i never have experience bad framerate either.

Where are you at? Im on the East Coast which puts me fairly close to the alledged location of the servers (virginia?) and i get all kinds of lag that I never got in any other game.

and in times of spawn grenade and rocket clusterfuckery my frame rate bogs down really bad.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Andronicus said:
man last night was rough :lol



i hope that means exploring a party system


That or at least a "reserve x amount of slots on server" a la Warhawk. That way you can still turn on auto balance, but have a few friends/clanmates only slots reserved.
 

Seraph-

Member
I have a room i'm trying to start called "FF On No Balance" which from the title you can see there's friendly fire enabled and no auto balancing. also has all maps and BC, Assassination, and S&D are the enabled game types. please, join me!
 

Lince

Banned
Tormentoso said:
Check your connection it doesn't lag for me at all,and i never have experience bad framerate either.

in 32p games? yeah right...

Fix for auto-aim exploit when rapidly tapping zoom/fire

??? ¿¿ ??? ¿ ?? where? when? lol now I'm suspicious of some clan matches we had early this week, I thought it was impressive aim skill ?

Controls. Seeing about giving more options.

custom controls? that'd be awesome
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Lince said:
in 32p games? yeah right...


I also have no lag in 32 player matches. Maybe it is your connection. Certainly every once in a while there is some guy who skips across the screen for a few seconds before he disconnects, but I think that is them lagging, not me. And that happens in all modes and sizes of games.
 

GodofWine

Member
AndyD said:
I also have no lag in 32 player matches. Maybe it is your connection. Certainly every once in a while there is some guy who skips across the screen for a few seconds before he disconnects, but I think that is them lagging, not me. And that happens in all modes and sizes of games.

I never get people 'warping' around, just that I shoot them, and they die like a second later. And the number of 'I kill you, you kill me' moments are just products of lag.

Its not an overwhelming issue, but most people will tell you its got a lag issue.
 

oneHeero

Member
Nice patch, glad they are fixing the auto aim glitch. Tons of people I know had stop playing due to the AA glitch. We were all waiting for a fix since playing clan games sucked cuz there was always an excuse that the winner used aa.

Other than that, I dont have any problems online with anything. Nothing is overpowered, everything can be countered. Wish a party system was in place, dumb beta players thinking it was great as is, big lol to them.



EDIT:In regards to lag, I never experience EXCEPT I did join a few bodycount only games yesterday and ran into a lot of people lag switchin(term we use when it seems its on purpose).
Left the ody count game and found another one with no problems. I was also able to kill the players still with no problem but definately didnt enjoy it. Only happened in 3 agames all body count type.
 

GodofWine

Member
oneHeero said:
Other than that, I dont have any problems online with anything. Nothing is overpowered, everything can be countered. Wish a party system was in place, dumb beta players thinking it was great as is, big lol to them.

Beta testers complained a lot about lack of party system and spawn grenade issues I believe, but no dice.

And now, as another week draws closer to its end...we have a whopping 205,000 people who have played this game this week...enrollment is getting critical.
 

JudgeN

Member
Dirtbag said:
that is not the patch I was hoping for.

You expected a full interface change complete with party system/matchmaking, assault class nerf, and a spawn grenade nerf in a 2 weeks? The full list of things people want are going to take MONTHS to figure out/test, you might as well trade in your game now if you aren't happy and this goes for everyone else that is upset with there purchase.
 

Inanna

Not pure anymore!
Rapping Granny said:
btw whoever came up with the idea of overpowering the Assault class, i hope an elephant molests you and takes a big shit on your loved ones.
Medics should have either the boost thing or extra armour instead of assaults having all the good abilities. Also, fixed number of grenades per matches no matter how many times you respawn! Oh and the rocket/grenade launcher should be available to riflemen only (just like LMGs), give assaults another weapon.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
GodofWine said:
I never get people 'warping' around, just that I shoot them, and they die like a second later. And the number of 'I kill you, you kill me' moments are just products of lag.

Its not an overwhelming issue, but most people will tell you its got a lag issue.

They have already addressed this and it is not lag.

In SP and MP, when you die you have a chance of death trigger finger that still sprays your bullets left as you fall. Its even been captured in videos in this very thread, people that are already in the death animation and you see the bullets shooting out of the gun and hitting nearby walls and things. If the bullets happen to hit you or someone else it may score a kill.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
AndyD said:
I also have no lag in 32 player matches. Maybe it is your connection. Certainly every once in a while there is some guy who skips across the screen for a few seconds before he disconnects, but I think that is them lagging, not me. And that happens in all modes and sizes of games.
The same here, i have so to say no lag in 32 player matches either, at least not what i can notice. I have experienced some with a few players now and then though, but that might be due to that they have some poor internet connection or something. My overall experience with Killzone 2 and lag are pretty good i must say :)

The framerate is also pretty solid for me, even in the most hectic stuff. It might drop down alittle, but that is maybe to 20-25FPS in the most hectic fights and it doesnt really last for that long. But even when the framerate drops abit (or at least it feels like it), i dont really have any big problems playing :)
 

oneHeero

Member
GodofWine said:
Beta testers complained a lot about lack of party system and spawn grenade issues I believe, but no dice.

And now, as another week draws closer to its end...we have a whopping 205,000 people who have played this game this week...enrollment is getting critical.
Not the beta testers on gaf. They all swore by the online setup KZ had. Said it was the best thing going for KZ. That anyone who wanted a party system was crazy that playign w/ your friends was as easy as just clicking on their name and selecting join. We had no need for a party system they said just wait till you play you'll understand. Who would have thought here we all are asking for a party system.
 

GodofWine

Member
oneHeero said:
Not the beta testers on gaf. They all swore by the online setup KZ had. Said it was the best thing going for KZ. That anyone who wanted a party system was crazy that playign w/ your friends was as easy as just clicking on their name and selecting join. We had no need for a party system they said just wait till you play you'll understand. Who would have thought here we all are asking for a party system.

Well...I know its possible to have it work without a party system, Warhawk has a similar (yet incredibly better) lobby system where it puts you on your friends team, and you can reserve slots for friends in games.

Regarding the question of how many people are playing other games, before I traded it in, COD WaW was always showing about 70-80K online at all times basically (24-7), I reckon it had 500,000 weekly members. COD4 probably still had more.

If anyone knows these numbers for certain, Id be interested in COD WaW / 4 , and R2.
 
test_account said:
Couldnt a non-invinicbility spawn points be exploited though? If you get like 3-4 team mates to stand around the spawn point, and then you can just shoot everyone that comes through that spawn point easily. Then this spawn point wouldnt be much of use, which means that you would have to start back at the base to be save. If the map were bigger as well, then this could pontentially lead to alot more running, which some people probably would find annoying :\ I wouldnt mind bigger maps though, but i am just wondering how well bigger maps would work combined with non-invincibility spawn points.

And ye, it would be nice if we could see the server options :)

That is the job of the tactician, to make sure his spawn point is in a safe place (but still close to the objective) and to secure to spawn point. In the beta the clusterfuck would happen but only for a moment as one team would overrun the other spawn making one side loose ground. Right now a spawn can't fail so the clusterfuck continues indefinetly and creates that chaotic mess.
 

JudgeN

Member
GodofWine said:
Well...I know its possible to have it work without a party system, Warhawk has a similar (yet incredibly better) lobby system where it puts you on your friends team, and you can reserve slots for friends in games.

Regarding the question of how many people are playing other games, before I traded it in, COD WaW was always showing about 70-80K online at all times basically (24-7), I reckon it had 500,000 weekly members. COD4 probably still had more.

If anyone knows these numbers for certain, Id be interested in COD WaW / 4 , and R2.

They have more people online cause they sold more copies, people really need to put this into perspective. We don't even know if KZ2 has sold a million copies yet but people want its online numbers to be the same as games that have sold millions more copies? That doesn't make any damn sense.

Dubbedinenglish said:
That is the job of the tactician, to make sure his spawn point is in a safe place (but still close to the objective) and to secure to spawn point. In the beta the clusterfuck would happen but only for a moment as one team would overrun the other spawn making one side loose ground. Right now a spawn can't fail so the clusterfuck continues indefinetly and creates that chaotic mess.

They should of left it the way it was in the beta, hopefully they will change it back.
 
oneHeero said:
Not the beta testers on gaf. They all swore by the online setup KZ had. Said it was the best thing going for KZ. That anyone who wanted a party system was crazy that playign w/ your friends was as easy as just clicking on their name and selecting join. We had no need for a party system they said just wait till you play you'll understand. Who would have thought here we all are asking for a party system.

As far as the beta was concerned, I never commented on the party system because I am not opposed to playing against my friends from time to time and do not look to gaming as a way to chat with people. I was not in the R:FoM clan and have very very limited experience with an online party systems. But obviously some form of party system is needed in order to avoid extreme team imbalances.

With respect to Spawn grenades though, the issues we are seeing now never arose during regular beta play because 1) everyone spawned out of the grenade at the exact same location, everytime. And 2) you were not invincible so as soon as you spawned you could be executed. These two points meant that tacticians were far more creative in their deployment of spawn points. The trade off at the time was that teams could spawn camp the main base spawn and you would literally spawn into a sniper's crosshairs and promptly die. Thus the outcry for adding in spawn invulnerability. The problem is that GG added invulnerability to all spawn methods.
 

GodofWine

Member
JudgeN said:
They have more people online cause they sold more copies, people really need to put this into perspective. We don't even know if KZ2 has sold a million copies yet but people want its online numbers to be the same as games that have sold millions more copies? That doesn't make any damn sense.

Oh, I agree, but the first three weeks have gone something like:

450k --> 360K --> 325K --> this week at 205K with a day or two remaining (granted it will be the weekend, but I doubt it'll hit last weeks number)

I think this will reverse and it will grow, but if I were GG I'd be looking at this and in the back of my head I'd be a little worried.
 

dk_

Member
Thrakier said:
Woah, only 200.000 players this week? I'm just glad that I already got my 1% trophy. XD
Yesterday I was 90th on the leaderboard for this week. How many players can be expected this weekend?
 

Lince

Banned
dk_ said:
Yesterday I was 90th on the leaderboard for this week. How many players can be expected this weekend?

90th? :lol stop playing for your sanity's sake.... (the 1% trophy is already yours)
 
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