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[Ceb]

I have to admit the current reaction is kind of puzzling and appalling to me, in equal measure. One of the things I especially wanted to do was 'de-cheese' things, and I really expected that criticisms might run more along the lines of the dialog being bland and generic than horribly cheesy. I spent a very large chunk of my life growing up around the military, which is why the dialog is a bit 'rugby club' in its use of profanity.

I think a big reason why the dialogue might feel so generic to some is simply because they can't develop any attachment for the characters. Whether or not this is due to stereotypical portrayals, lack of exposition or something else... who knows, but it boggles me that anyone looking at the dialogue objectively can honestly find it to be so offensively "jock"-ish. The marine banter in Aliens is hardly more nuanced... but I think the reason that works for people is because of said character attachment.

I dunno, I think even the derogatory "Higg" lines work since they don't make me queasy in the same way that real-world slurs do. And I've yet to hear a nu-metal-esque "sweeeet" a la Gears.

 

[deepbrown]

I'd hate to quote the W, but

That's talking about the statement belonging to a person, meaning that it's not in the real-world. However, when you discuss with other people and present your opinion to them, it can be legitmately brought into the real-world and proved/disproved; as is said in the description. Opinions are not immune to being disproved, since they can be changed.

If you think that rabbits are pink, it is correct that your opinion is that rabbits are pink - but the statement that rabbits are pink can be disproved - and when the evidence is presented to you, the holder of the opinion, you may change your opinion.

This is all simple philosophy that lets us have logical discussions and present opinions, where the statements within the opinion can then be disproved (and thus the original opinion may be changed).

However, in this case, you don't think the narrative/story progression is good. Which is completely subjective - was just commenting on your statement on logical fallacys

 

[deepbrown]

So its a little like Half-Life 2? Not everything is served on a silver platter, you'll have to do a little digging yourself?

Umm...the difference is that Half Life 2's story is presented during gameplay. I don't think KZ2 does narrative as well as HL2.

POP: Sands of Time did some excellent story/relationship telling in gameplay. Characters talking to themselves/each other.

They completely effed this up in the modern POP. Although there's lots of character exposition, they make you stop just to listen to it - the camera focusses on the characters can't move - removing the point of connecting you to the characters during gameplay.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'm not seeing the point of this. Truant hasn't said anything factually wrong.

 

[deepbrown]

I'm not seeing the point of this. Truant hasn't said anything factually wrong.

Sorry :/

 

[Fersis]

For the love of god, its a freaking shooter!!!!
You only need a pretext to shoot space nazis!! Come oooooooooooon!!!!

 

[Always-honest]

I'm not seeing the point of this. Truant hasn't said anything factually wrong.

indeed. and most of us couldn't care less about the story.. let's just all shoot shit up

 

[Truant]

That's talking about the statement belonging to a person, meaning that it's not in the real-world. However, when you discuss with other people and present your opinion to them, it can be legitmately brought into the real-world and proved/disproved; as is said in the description. Opinions are not immune to being disproved, since they can be changed.

If you think that Rabbits are pink, it is correct that your opinion is that rabbits are pink - but the statement that rabbits are pink, can be disproved - and when presented to you, the holder of the opinion, may change your opinion when presented with the facts.

This is all simple philosophy that lets us have logical discussions and present opinions, which the statements within the opinion can then be disproved (and thus the original opinion may be changed).

However, in this case, you don't think the narrative/story progression is good. Which is completely subjective - was just commenting on your statement on logical fallacys

I completely dropped the ball on my first statement, and I'm absolutely aware of this. I was refering to what you are saying in your last paragraph. I was actually about to bring up the pink rabbit example myself :lol

 

[Truant]

I'm not seeing the point of this. Truant hasn't said anything factually wrong.

I screwed up with my 'opinions/logical fallacy' comment, that's where the discussion started. See the 'Pink Rabbit' example. Deepbrown understood my point, he just pointed out that the one statement was wrong, which is okey.

 

[deepbrown]

I screwed up with my 'opinions/logical fallacy' comment, that's where the discussion started. See the 'Pink Rabbit' example. Deepbrown understood my point, he just pointed out that the one statement was wrong, which is okey.

lol. Philosophy is fun

Soo...Killzone 2. You've got to admit that there are some excellent moments in the story though.

 

[cakefoo]

What the fuck is a Shakespeare?

 

[zoukka]

What the fuck is a Shakespeare?

Don't remind me.

 

[TTP]

lol. Philosophy is fun

Soo...Killzone 2. You've got to admit that there are some excellent moments in the story though.

I loved the part when it turns out Visari was actually

Spoiler

born from

a woman.

Spoiler

lol, sorry Im bored

 

[Truant]

lol. Philosophy is fun

Soo...Killzone 2. You've got to admit that there are some excellent moments in the story though.

There are some points that are really engaging, but those are more set-pieces and stuff, and the gameplay that amounts from that.

Spoiler

The trek down the sniper alley in the deserted village was amazing, as well as the New Sun falling to the ground.

 

[deepbrown]

What the fuck is a Shakespeare?

Shag-a-spear

 

[deepbrown]

I loved the part when it turns out Visari was actually

Spoiler

born from

a woman.

Spoiler

lol, sorry Im bored

lol. Go write something interesting :lol

 

[deepbrown]

Putting it in a PM, because...

 

[Truant]

See now you're actually downplaying the story - and its connection with the gameplay. Please people, don't read this if you know what's good for you.

Spoiler

Just think, the game is setting you up to winning against the Helghast, but it turns out that they invade the ship, many of the main players are killed, and the ship is set to fall by the captain. It falls to the ground etc.

All of that was excellent story writing - well delivered, with a great concept, and surprises the player. That's great storytelling for a video game - not cliched, not predictable, big pay off, tied brilliantly with the gameplay.

Maybe I should put this in a PM instead?

Spoiler

No, not at all. I never got the impression that the ISA were going to win once the Helghast invaded, and I expected something like that to happen, actually. The visual payoff was excellent, however.

 

[deepbrown]

...I don't want to spoil it...

 

[Truant]

Spoiler

"Once they invaded" - that be my point, you didn't know that that was going to happen before hand. Also the game didn't end when you thought it would, I thought that was the last scene

Spoiler

Well, that wasn't a huge surprise to be honest. It didn't really wow me, because the gameplay was pretty bad in that level. Not a very fun combat environment at all. I will say that Guerilla did an awesome job teasing you with the mechs in that level, and finally letting you play with it when you landed back on Helghan.

I will say that my absolute favorite part of the game was

Spoiler

when you had to take down the four AA towers, and you could do it in any order you wanted to. Sure, they were all the same, but the fact that you had enemies on all sides made it really interesting. That was a good example of when the narrative worked without getting in the way of the game, as you really felt like you could make some nice tactical decisions while still having a very clear story reason for doing it.

 

[FirewalkR]

Ooooooh if I accidentally select that spoilery text. You're all dead!!! Dead, I tells ya!!!!

 

[Truant]

Ooooooh if I accidentally select that spoilery text. You're all dead!!! Dead, I tells ya!!!!

Honestly, I wouldn't be that much of a big deal. If you've seen all the videos and gifs, you'd probably seen or read about the spoiler parts.

 

[JB1981]

I was hoping the story/universe/mythos would be more fleshed out

Based on the discussion here, I'll go ahead and assume that there aren't any 'collectibles' ala Gears 2 or R2, which helped pad out the story and expand the world some for both games.

 

[deepbrown]

Honestly, I wouldn't be that much of a big deal. If you've seen all the videos and gifs, you'd probably seen or read about the spoiler parts.

I didnt know any of what I said before I played the game.

Please, don't read it.

 

[deepbrown]

...that would be lame.

 

[Fersis]

Ooooooh if I accidentally select that spoilery text. You're all dead!!! Dead, I tells ya!!!!

Yeaaah, its too risky! I cant even quote them to say: 'Dont do it' :lol
Do it over PM please!

 

[deepbrown]

Yeaaah, its too risky! I cant even quote them to say: 'Dont do it' :lol
Do it over PM please!

OK Sorry. I'll copy and paste them all out of here

 

[beast786]

My Stats:

On Veteran Mode
9hrs and 54 min
704 Helghast Killed
27% Troophez earned.

Cant wait for MP. Best FPS Yet

 

[Fersis]

OK Sorry. I'll copy and paste them all out of here

Dont get upset man, its just that its too risky
I hate you guys because

Spoiler

You played the game... but no i dont hate you guys. :3

 

[xerxesiani]

If you pre-order in the Netherlands you get a chance to win a beanbag:

Have you guys seen this somewhere else?

 

[Gibb]

why does it say "27-02-09"? shouldn't it say "25-02-09"?

oh screw it, street date is messed up already..

 

[Always-honest]

If you pre-order in the Netherlands you get a chance to win a beanbag:

Have you guys seen this somewhere else?

where?/ waar?

 

[Gibb]

If you pre-order in the Netherlands you get a chance to win a beanbag:

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/xerxesiani/zitzak.jpg[img]

Have you guys seen this somewhere else?[/QUOTE]

Gamemania.be is giving it away as a quiz reward.

And chance to win at pre-order at Bol.com

 

[Mr. Pointy]

I have to admit, it's a pretty brutal game on Veteran difficulty. Loving KZ2. I'm liking much more than FEAR 2, which I wasn't expecting.

 

[Vashu]

You can win this thing if you pre-order the game in Bol.com for example.

 

[PuppetSlave]

Pretty interesting stats beast786. I did the math and that comes down to 1.18 kills per minute. hmmm. Camper?

 

[nib95]

Some things I will say in regards to the story...

Those of you expecting tonnes of back story and overarching narrative, don't. The game doesn't emphasize that side of the story. Instead, it primarily focuses on Alpha squad itself, the characters within it, their discoveries and their actions. The entire story is basically a mini story told through Alpha squad.

If you take it for what it is and look at it like that, it's actually quite successful and rewarding.

 

[Forsete]

Umm...the difference is that Half Life 2's story is presented during gameplay. I don't think KZ2 does narrative as well as HL2.

Oh Ok.

I remember quite a few people complained about the story in Half-Life 2 though.. The fun part with HL2 is everything wasnt really told by the narrative, you had to look around the game world for small hints etc. Like news articles on walls and shit (7 hour war, world surrenders etc).

 

[xerxesiani]

where?/ waar?

nedgame.com

 

[CitizenCope]

here

http://www.gameanyone.com/game/PS3/1826.html

Almost through the whole thing and it is pretty cool. I was surprised to see that it is pretty much Gears of War in first person. The down side to that is that a lot of the negative things from gears also apply here.

I watched a good hour or two. I may be single player fps'd out. =(
I still look forward to the mp but what I watched of sp does not have me doing cartwheels. More the genre than anything else.

 

[Applesauce]

I'm sending my 40GB off to the doctor's office today so no more demo for me until next week

 

[GodofWine]

I watched a good hour or two. I may be single player fps'd out. =(
I still look forward to the mp but what I watched of sp does not have me doing cartwheels. More the genre than anything else.

I agree, Im totally geeked up for the MP though...I hate SP campaigns (thought the heinous scripting of the COD series has a lot to do with that), yet all I do with my PS3 (practically) is play shooters online.

 

[Andronicus]

The main difference is that Gears makes it pretty obvious that it's supposed to be cheesy.

even the stuff with Dom and Maria? that in my opinion was a terrible attempt at evoking an emotional response from the player, it felt tacked on and out of place.

I highly doubt that in pre-production meetings they were saying hey lets make a game with a cheese rating of camembert where the in game dialogue consists of "Noice!" and grunts.These are characters fighting for the survival of their entire civilization. I think its more of a case that it devolved into what was the final product story wise over time. Story took a back seat to core gameplay. And when its gameplay is that fun do you even care?

The difference with killzone and Gears is that there is a fleshed out history of the peoples, places and conflicts that is accessible to the gamer via killzone.com. There is a visible cause and effect, a reason to why the ISA and the player have come to helghan. Killzone has as little or as much story that you want to take from it. Not just there was a war over glowing oil, we put you in jail, oh shit the boogie men are real, we busted you out of jail because you're a badass; we need you to set off another bomb.


As for the profanity and dialogue in killzone 2. Anyone read Generation kill or watched the HBO miniseries based on Evan Wright's accounts with the marine 1st reconnaissance battalion‎ during the 2003 invasion of Iraq? So far from what I've seen in the demo and some online videos these characters aren't far off from some of the first soldiers on the ground during that invasion.

*Edit:However i haven't played the full game and will hold off on my KZ2 cheese factor rating until completion

What the fuck is a Shakespeare?

Rico may not know 16th century literature but he does know his 20th century hip hop lol

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

There's also some good exposition in the game - Visari is especially my favorite voice actor in the game. Which might be your problem - some of the voice-acting is bad. Sev's actor is great, but the guy who plays Rico sounds like he's trying too hard to put on a gruff deep voice...unless he actually speaks like that in real life. If a voice actor isn't good enough to get film work, then they aren't good enough to be in a game that's meant to be a blockbuster film selling millions of copies.

A bit but LTTP but here goes my .02 pence

For the Killzone series that's one thing I want more of, the speeches from the leaders. IMO the series's power in the narrative comes from the speeches. Take the opening for KZ1 for example, Visari's speech was one of (if not the) most efficient way to paint the backstory and premise of why the fight is there. The flowery hateful language and the bravado that Cox injects gives so much in such a short time that it could be exploited even further. Like the audio in MP a few pages back, it paints the picture of the Helghast enough and with such detail that there isn't much in game explanation needed beyond that.

I haven't played the game, or seen the spoilers but I wan't GG to make more use of the iconography between the two factions to tell the backstory.

 

[Torgo]

Did I miss anything?

I was a dumbass and just copy&pasted a link to a thread where we were giving away KZ Demo codes. Damned lack of sleep.

 

[fin]

Jesus @ the OP. Who's got time to read all that?

Played the demo via Europe account. I like it. But not sure if it's day 1, might wait for a used copy. No COOP and the multiplayer may not be up to snuff...

 

[tiddles]

If you pre-order in the Netherlands you get a chance to win a beanbag:

Have you guys seen this somewhere else?

I've sat on it, does that count?

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Did I miss anything?

We had ice cream.

 

[Fersis]

Jesus @ the OP. Who's got time to read all that?

Played the demo via Europe account. I like it. But not sure if it's day 1, might wait for a used copy. No COOP and the multiplayer may not be up to snuff...

Read it and then you will say: ISA scum!

 

[.GqueB.]

I swear I'll never understand complaints about shallow profane dialogue in games like this. I couldnt believe Gametrailers actually mentioned that in their review and then showed a clip of someone saying the F word.

NO SHIT

Even playing online in gears or Halo or whatever youll hear nothing but F bombs and people saying foolishness. We arent on there reciting haikus. Am I REALLY supposed to believe that soldiers on the battlefield in reality are holding their tongue? Puh lease. Id fancy a guess and say videogames are probably a bit tame compared to real life.

Ive played through this demo about 20 times and never once heard one of my comrades call one of the Helgasts a "cunt". THAT is unrealistic to me.