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[Fersis]

Speaking of weird dreams, lat night i dreamed that:
For some odd reason i was on a meeting with Guerrilla Dames and David Reeves,Reeves was bashing my game (The game im currently working on 'in real life') and everytime he insulted me or the game ALL GUERRILLA GAMES cheered up!!
So yeah, the guy send me to GG so they can help me to finish my project, and of course the GG guys are threating me really bad.(Oh and in GG offices there is no bathrooms!!)
So yeah, just when some of the GG coders started the code review of my project i woke up. @___@
Craaaaazy dream.
I once dreamed with Kojima ... was awesome.

 

[tiddles]

In actual fact, the shotgun has damage reduction over distance AND spread... the spread is in a randomised pattern, so that's why test_account noticed varying amounts of damage at the same distance, depending on how many pellets did or did not hit.

You also have to be aiming directly at someone's head with the shotgun to get a headshot (excluding the possibility of lag for a moment) - if you're not aiming at the head you won't get the head shot, irrespective of how many pellets actually hit your opponent's head.

 

[Fersis]

In actual fact, the shotgun has damage reduction over distance AND spread... the spread is in a randomised pattern, so that's why test_account noticed varying amounts of damage at the same distance, depending on how many pellets did or did not hit.

You also have to be aiming directly at someone's head with the shotgun to get a headshot (excluding the possibility of lag for a moment) - if you're not aiming at the head you won't get the head shot, irrespective of how many pellets actually hit your opponent's head.

You were cheering while Reeves bashed me isnt?!!!

:lol

 

[Facism]

Speaking of weird dreams, lat night i dreamed that:
For some odd reason i was on a meeting with Guerrilla Dames and David Reeves,Reeves was bashing my game (The game im currently working on 'in real life') and everytime he insulted me or the game ALL GUERRILLA GAMES cheered up!!
So yeah, the guy send me to GG so they can help me to finish my project, and of course the GG guys are threating me really bad.(Oh and in GG offices there is no bathrooms!!)
So yeah, just when some of the GG coders started the code review of my project i woke up. @___@
Craaaaazy dream.
I once dreamed with Kojima ... was awesome.

Jesus christ, fersis. :lol

 

[AndyD]

Speaking of weird dreams, lat night i dreamed that:
For some odd reason i was on a meeting with Guerrilla Dames and David Reeves,Reeves was bashing my game (The game im currently working on 'in real life') and everytime he insulted me or the game ALL GUERRILLA GAMES cheered up!!
So yeah, the guy send me to GG so they can help me to finish my project, and of course the GG guys are threating me really bad.(Oh and in GG offices there is no bathrooms!!)
So yeah, just when some of the GG coders started the code review of my project i woke up. @___@
Craaaaazy dream.
I once dreamed with Kojima ... was awesome.

Weird. Last night I dreamt I went for a jog and I could not find my shoes, they had all been replaced with donuts.

Now I want donuts.

 

[Fersis]

Jesus christ, fersis. :lol

Im kind of mad at GG now :/

Now I want donuts.

True fact: There is no donuts stores here on Argentina.

 

[Inanna]

Speaking of weird dreams, lat night i dreamed that:
For some odd reason i was on a meeting with Guerrilla Dames and David Reeves,Reeves was bashing my game (The game im currently working on 'in real life') and everytime he insulted me or the game ALL GUERRILLA GAMES cheered up!!
So yeah, the guy send me to GG so they can help me to finish my project, and of course the GG guys are threating me really bad.(Oh and in GG offices there is no bathrooms!!)
So yeah, just when some of the GG coders started the code review of my project i woke up. @___@
Craaaaazy dream.
I once dreamed with Kojima ... was awesome.

:lol

Tell us about that other dream!

 

[Lince]

:lol

Tell us about that other dream!

yes please :lol

 

[Dirtyshubb]

:lol

Tell us about that other dream!

I just had a horrible thought of "Do you Rike?" pop into my head

 

[Click]

I worry about you, Fersis...

In actual fact, the shotgun has damage reduction over distance AND spread... the spread is in a randomised pattern, so that's why test_account noticed varying amounts of damage at the same distance, depending on how many pellets did or did not hit.

You also have to be aiming directly at someone's head with the shotgun to get a headshot (excluding the possibility of lag for a moment) - if you're not aiming at the head you won't get the head shot, irrespective of how many pellets actually hit your opponent's head.

Well, damn. If a GG employee says it has damage reduction, then it must be true!
I apologize if it does indeed have damage reduction, though I still don't think it does.

But at the end of the day, damage reduction or not, the fact remains that the shotgun in KZ2 is still overpowered.

 

[Fersis]

:lol
Tell us about that other dream!

yes please :lol

I just had a horrible thought of "Do you Rike?" pop into my head

mhmmh T___T
It was just a game development related dream!!!

 

[Lince]

the fact remains that the shotgun in KZ2 is still overpowered.

yes but I agree with TTP, both p2p lag/atrocious netcode are making the shotgun issue worse, in that extra 0,5-1 second it takes for your hits to register a shotgun can fire another shot... not that shotguns need more than one actually :lol

 

[Inanna]

I hate shotgun. I am so bad with it. But I love love LOVE M82, that's why I like being a medic now.

 

[Click]

yes but I agree with TTP, both p2p lag/atrocious netcode are making the shotgun issue worse, in that extra 0,5-1 second it takes for your hits to register a shotgun can fire another shot... not that shotguns need more than one actually :lol

You're losing your touch.
You forgot to mention Boost and aim-assist (magnet aiming).

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Did anyone else have their campaign deleted after installing the latest patch/maps? My game was completely lost.

 

[Lince]

You're losing your touch.

yes :lol

some weeks ago I was playing with FFO and talking about the game stupid lag and flaws, then we joined a noob server full of grenade launcher and rocket noobs, we equipped such weapons plus boost and claimed that "this is the way the game is meant to be played", never worried about the game again.

I guess we all thought GG was putting a tactical shooter on the market and we got a Quake/Unreal Tournament with perks instead. You need heavily modified custom games (hi TTP) to make the game feel close to what we were expecting.

 

[test_account]

yes but I agree with TTP, both p2p lag/atrocious netcode are making the shotgun issue worse, in that extra 0,5-1 second it takes for your hits to register a shotgun can fire another shot... not that shotguns need more than one actually :lol

In what way is the netcode atrocious?

 

[tiddles]

You were cheering while Reeves bashed me isnt?!!!

:lol

He was only saying what we were all thinking.

 

[Lince]

In what way is the netcode atrocious?

in the way it handles hosting, even if you are downloading or playing an online game in your PC you can still host a 32p game in Killzone 2, resulting in a poor quality experience for everyone.

 

[Fersis]

He was only saying what we were all thinking.

:lol

Spoiler

;__;

In what way is the netcode atrocious?

I think that its a great netcode. Have you played MGO Lince ? Thats atrocious net code.

 

[Lince]

:lol

Spoiler

;__;

I think that its a great netcode. Have you played MGO Lince ? Thats atrocious net code.

yes, I played the beta 12 hours a day during the 2 weeks it lasted, awesome game, netcode was awful too. Never bothered about the retail MGO except for a couple games with Dave.

great netcode = Warkawk, Resistance 2, even CoD 4 and Halo 3 have better netcode than KZ2... but let's not get started with the game flaws again, the game is fun after all, I'll be playing this afternoon, who's in?

 

[test_account]

in the way it handles hosting, even if you are downloading or playing an online game in your PC you can still host a 32p game in Killzone 2, resulting in a poor quality experience for everyone.

But how is the netcode going to detect that you are downloading stuff on your PC and/or playing another game online? Do you mean that the game should have some sort of bandwith checker before you can host, to see if you have enough bandwith to handle for example a 32 player game? If yes, i dont have that much experience with hosting games in general, but does any games have a bandwith checker like this, that will deny you to create/host a X amount of player games if you dont have enough bandwith? I have never seen or heard of something like this at least, but i dont have that much experience with hosting games when it comes to games in general, so it might excist for all that i know

great netcode = Warkawk, Resistance 2, even CoD 4 and Halo 3 have better netcode than KZ2... but let's not get started with the game flaws again, the game is fun after all, I'll be playing this afternoon, who's in?

Doesnt all of these games use dedicated servers? I thought that was the reasons why there are less lag in those games, and not just because of the netcode itself. Or unless i have missunderstood something, is netcode is how the games are programmed to handle multiplayer/online games? And the netcodes can variate from game to game depending on how the developers have coded the netcode? Or does "netcode" means if the game is using P2P or dedicated servers, where P2P might causing more lag (bad netcode) and where dedicated servers might cause less lag (good netcode)?

 

[Fersis]

But how is the netcode going to detect that you are downloading stuff on your PC and/or playing another game online? Do you mean that the game should have some sort of bandwith checker before you can host, to see if you have enough bandwith to handle for example a 32 player game? If yes, i dont have that much experience with hosting games in general, but does any games have a bandwith checker like this, that will deny you to create/host a X amount of player games if you dont have enough bandwith? I have never seen or heard of something like this at least, but i dont have that much experience with hosting games when it comes to games in general, so it might excist for all that i know

MGO requests 256KB of bandwith to host games, and 128KB to play.
(Or something like that)

 

[test_account]

MGO requests 256KB of bandwith to host games, and 128KB to play.
(Or something like that)

Ok, but even if i am downloading at maximum speed at my PC, i am pretty sure that i still can host a MGO server. Then the PS3 will just "reserve" (or what i shall say) bandwith for it. It is like if i try to watch a clip on YouTube while i download for example. If i download 1.5MB/s, and then i try to watch a YouTube clip, then my download speed might go down to 800kB/s or so, and use the rest of the bandwith for downloading/streaming the YouTube clip

 

[Fersis]

Ok, but even if i am downloading at maximum speed at my PC, i am pretty sure that i still can host a MGO server. Then the PS3 will just "reserve" (or what i shall say) bandwith for it. It is like if i try to watch a clip on YouTube while i download for example. If i download 1.5MB/s, and then i try to watch a YouTube clip, then my download speed might go down to 800kB/s or so, and use the rest of the bandwith for downloading/streaming the YouTube clip

I assume that the game could make some kind of test (Agains their servers) to check the bandwith... it should be possible i think

 

[Sai-kun]

Just bought this gaaaaaame

Any tips?

 

[Fersis]

Just bought this gaaaaaame

Any tips?

SP first then MP.
SP will blow your mind!

 

[test_account]

I assume that the game could make some kind of test (Agains their servers) to check the bandwith... it should be possible i think

Ye, i think so too But i was just wondering if it is pretty much only the netcode that can cause lag in Killzone 2, or if it is more of a bandwith issue at the user/host's side. Since Killzone 2 is using P2P instead of dedicated servers, isnt this one of the biggest reasons why there can be some lag in Killzone 2, especially if you are trying to play on servers outside of your own region (for example to play on a US server if you live in EU)? Or is "netcode" another word for P2P or dedicated servers? Maybe i have missunderstood something :\

 

[guggnichso]

Ye, i think so too But i was just wondering if it is pretty much only the netcode that can cause lag in Killzone 2, or if it is more of a bandwith issue at the user/host's side. Since Killzone 2 is using P2P instead of dedicated servers, isnt this one of the biggest reasons why there can be some lag in Killzone 2, especially if you are trying to play on servers outside of your own region (for example to play on a US server if you live in EU)? Or is "netcode" another word for P2P or dedicated servers? Maybe i have missunderstood something :\

AFAIK is DOES use servers, instead of p2p. I may be wrong though.

 

[Click]

I think you guys are getting confused about what netcode is.

In simple terms, netcode is the game's ability to predict and compensate for inherent lag of all online multiplayer games. It hides the fact that everyone is lagging and makes you feel as if the game is "lagfree."

KZ2's netcode is definitely not as good as other games, particularly Resistance Fall of Man and R2. That's why there are so many double kills, deaths behind cover/walls, and people taking more damage than "normal" to kill.

"Meh" netcode + peer to peer + bad/unstable framerate = slideshow, lag, and bad online experience.

 

[commish]

You also have to be aiming directly at someone's head with the shotgun to get a headshot (excluding the possibility of lag for a moment) - if you're not aiming at the head you won't get the head shot, irrespective of how many pellets actually hit your opponent's head.

I'm gonna have to disagree with that one. If you have a shotgun, why would you *ever* aim at someone's head? Yet you see a ton of headshots, often from retarded distances.

7 more days! I think i'm gonna have a 10 hour kz2 marathon after my last final. Don't tell the gf.

 

[Fersis]

I think you guys are getting confused about what netcode is.

In simple terms, netcode is the game's ability to predict and compensate for inherent lag of all online multiplayer games. It hides the fact that everyone is lagging and makes you feel as if the game is "lagfree."

KZ2's netcode is definitely not as good as other games, particularly Resistance Fall of Man and R2. That's why there are so many double kills, deaths behind cover/walls, and people taking more damage than "normal" to kill.

"Meh" netcode + peer to peer + bad/unstable framerate = slideshow, lag, and bad online experience.

Yeah i know what net code is.
You explained it ratter nicely, its not as easy to say : "Lets make a lagless game!"
Tough its harder to hide lag using P2P than dedicated servers.

 

[test_account]

AFAIK is DOES use servers, instead of p2p. I may be wrong though.

I have heard both, but i think that it is P2P.

I think you guys are getting confused about what netcode is.

In simple terms, netcode is the ability of the game to predict and compensate for inherent lag of all online multiplayer games. It "hides" the fact that everyone is lagging and makes you feel as if the game is "lagfree."

KZ2's netcode is definitely not as good as other games, particularly Resistance Fall of Man and R2. That's why there are so many double kills, deaths behind cover/walls, and people taking more damage than "normal" to kill.

"Meh" netcode + peer to peer + bad/unstable framerate = slideshow, lag, and bad online experience.

Ok, thanks for the explanation But i dont think that the netcode in Killzone 2 is really that bad, i belive that the users' location and bandwith also have something to do with potential lag in Killzone 2. I so to say always play on EU servers in Killzone 2, and so far i havnt really been bothered with lag. There are some episodes with lag though, i dont deny that, but from my about 135 hours with online play in Killzone 2, i would say that my experience is pretty good, but that is just my opinion

 

[Fersis]

Ok, thanks for the explanation But i dont think that the netcode in Killzone 2 is really that bad, i belive that the users' location and bandwith also have something to do with potential lag in Killzone 2.

I think that what Click is trying to say is : Why KZ2 dont have dedicated servers?

 

[test_account]

I think that what Click is trying to say is : Why KZ2 dont have dedicated servers?

Ye, that is a good question. But i just wanted to ask if the netcode in Killzone 2 is really that bad, and if the netcode is pretty much the only thing that might cause lag. I am not saying that anyone are wrong or anything, i was just wondering about the netcode stuff

 

[Fersis]

Ye, that is a good question. But i just wanted to ask if the netcode in Killzone 2 is really that bad, and if the netcode is pretty much the only thing that might cause lag. I am not saying that anyone are wrong or anything, i was just wondering about the netcode stuff

In P2P what it matters is the host connection, so if the host has 128KB and lives in China and you have 3MB is USA...its gonna be laggy.

 

[Click]

Ok, thanks for the explanation But i dont think that the netcode in Killzone 2 is really that bad, i belive that the users' location and bandwith also have something to do with potential lag in Killzone 2. I so to say always play on EU servers in Killzone 2, and so far i havnt really been bothered with lag. There are some episodes with lag though, i dont deny that, but from my about 135 hours on online play, i would say that my experience is pretty good, but that is just my opinion

It's not bad but it's not good either. Hence, the "meh."

Everything has to do with / contributes to "potential lag."
But good netcode hides a lot of lag players experience, negating many of those issues (location, bandwidth, etc.).

KZ2 doesn't have a major problem with lag but it's definitely noticeable and happens more often than "occasionally," which is unacceptable for a game of this caliber.

I think that what Click is trying to say is : Why KZ2 dont have dedicated servers?

What I was trying to say was that because of the COMBINATION of so-so netcode, absence of dedicated servers, and bad/unstable framerate, players experience lag and other frustrating things I already spoke about, more often than they should.

And yeah, obviously I question GG/SCE's decision to be cheap and not use dedicated servers. But everyone questions that terrible decision, not just me.

 

[TTP]

In P2P what it matters is the host connection, so if the host has 128KB and lives in China and you have 3MB is USA...its gonna be laggy.

Yes, but I think there are some serious issues with the software side of things (netcode). I was playing with a friend of mine living in my same town (same BB ISP as well), helping each other getting ribbons and stuff. It was just the two of us. When I was sniping him in the head, there was a very noticeable death delay.

In normal matches lag is so bad when I snipe someone while cloaked, cloak fades away like a sec *before* the target goes down. :lol

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

UK GAF: the moment I've been waiting for has arrived, Killzone 2 for £26 [delivered] on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000E69YHK/

My copy on its way, finally. Glad I held out!

 

[test_account]

In P2P what it matters is the host connection, so if the host has 128KB and lives in China and you have 3MB is USA...its gonna be laggy.

Indeed I tried to play on som japanese Killzone 2 servers, and there were pretty much lag compared to when i play on EU servers.

It's not bad but it's not good either. Hence, the "meh."

Everything has to do with / contributes to "potential lag."
But good netcode hides a lot of lag players experience, negating many of those issues (location, bandwidth, etc.).

KZ2 doesn't have a major problem with lag but it's definitely noticeable and happens more often than "occasionally," which is unacceptable for a game of this caliber.

Ye, i was also wondering what was the biggest lag offender in Killzone 2, the use of P2P or the netcode itself

Have any reasons been given on why they went the P2P route by the way? It seems abit strange concidering that Resistance 1, 2 and Warhawk uses dedicated servers. These titles are also "big" titles though, but i think that Killzone 2 is bigger than these titles. So why not use dedicated servers on Killzone 2 as well?


EDIT:

great netcode = Warkawk, Resistance 2, even CoD 4 and Halo 3 have better netcode than KZ2... but let's not get started with the game flaws again, the game is fun after all, I'll be playing this afternoon, who's in?

I didnt mean to start anything with the game flaws again, but i just got curious what you ment with that the netcode was atroucious, so i wanted to ask That was all i was wondering about.


And thanks to everyone for the answers to my questions by the way!

 

[Fersis]

How many SCEE titles use dedicated servers?

 

[Rikyfree]

Seriously, this game should be using dedicated servers.

 

[KZObsessed]

Just joined one of those Guerrilla Warfare games with the GG devs playing. There were only a few tho.

Awful game, Train level, 30 players, no FF, Rocket Launchers and Assault on. They do not have a clue! It's like they want their game to be shit. Although I guess they can't really disable anything as that would be admitting they've made mistakes on the core design and as if they would ever do that!

I finished top of the game tho, just. Was only 2 rounds. Was a complete mess. Eric Boltjes shot me tho... :lol

Should have had my mic on and given him an earful!

 

[Kittonwy]

Just joined one of those Guerrilla Warfare games with the GG devs playing. There were only a few tho.

Awful game, Train level, 30 players, no FF, Rocket Launchers and Assault on. They do not have a clue! It's like they want their game to be shit. Although I guess they can't really disable anything as that would be admitting they've made mistakes on the core design and as if they would ever do that!

I finished top of the game tho, just. Was only 2 rounds. Was a complete mess. Eric Boltjes shot me tho... :lol

Should have had my mic on and given him an earful!

Probably because there were a lot of yuroz, I noticed people skipping alot, then I quit to join another one, but never made it past the sync screen.

I don't mind not disabling stuff but at least have autobalance OFF, I hate autobalance because I can't get the people I know on the same team, autobalance is the worst thing they could have thought up. I hate autobalance.

 

[TTP]

Just joined one of those Guerrilla Warfare games with the GG devs playing. There were only a few tho.

Awful game, Train level, 30 players, no FF, Rocket Launchers and Assault on. They do not have a clue! It's like they want their game to be shit. Although I guess they can't really disable anything as that would be admitting they've made mistakes on the core design and as if they would ever do that!

I finished top of the game tho, just. Was only 2 rounds. Was a complete mess. Eric Boltjes shot me tho... :lol

Should have had my mic on and given him an earful!

:lol

 

[Lince]

Eric Boltjes shot me tho... :lol

let me touch you

Spoiler

seriously, let me

 

[Fersis]

Awful game, Train level, 30 players, no FF, Rocket Launchers and Assault on. They do not have a clue! It's like they want their game to be shit. Although I guess they can't really disable anything as that would be admitting they've made mistakes on the core design and as if they would ever do that!

Maybe the game you like is not the one they wanted to make.
Maybe they wanted to make a spawnfest arena.
Mind bottling isnt? :lol

 

[10dollas]

Its cause they are dutch and are living in the netherlands. They have skewed tastes due to over consumption of harlots and maryjane. dast my theory

 

[aj2good4you2]

just got done playing about 5-6 games with the devs, its hard to play with a big group of them cause they would setup a new server after every game. had one of the devs almost start complaining about my shotty when i killed 2 in 1 shot:lol :lol and i think i managed to teabag all the devs at least once so my dream has finally cam true!:lol

 

[Lince]

had one of the devs almost start complaining about my shotty when i killed 2 in 1 shot:lol :lol

shotgun tweaks incoming?

oh, and they probably sent grief reports