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[Confidence Man]

I haven't played in a while, so I figured I'd check out the patch. Holy shit what a fucking mess.

Tactician spaws are completely useless now; they're just beacons for the other team to get free kills. bububu you're supposed to defend them with bots and turrets! Yeah, good luck with that. :lol

Shotgun is still whored as ever, nothing has been done to fortify spawn areas so entire matches spent hemmed in the spawn is still a regular occurence on certain maps, and the "precision" controls are anything but.

Ultimately I think the game is flawed in a way that isn't fixable with the current design of generic maps that have to host all gametypes. You need maps designed specifically for objective play, with progressive/regressive fortified spawns that eliminate the need for the mobile spawns. The whole class system needs an overhaul too, but I'm not too hopeful anyhthing significant will be done.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Tactician spaws are completely useless now; they're just beacons for the other team to get free kills. bububu you're supposed to defend them with bots and turrets! Yeah, good luck with that. :lol

Play in smaller games or bigger maps. Yes, with 32 players on Tharsis you'll get pure chaos...but on Pyrrhus spawns do not get regularly camped, and neither do ones on Tharsis if you're playing with a sane number of people.

That, or you're playing with terrible Tacticians. I play with randoms almost exclusively, and sometimes a bad one will ruin a game. I try to make up for them, and I can guarantee my spawns do not get effectively camped very often. (Most folks continue trying to put them very close to the objective, without realizing that now they have to be in cover.)

 

[JoJo13]

I haven't played in a while, so I figured I'd check out the patch. Holy shit what a fucking mess.

Tactician spaws are completely useless now; they're just beacons for the other team to get free kills. bububu you're supposed to defend them with bots and turrets! Yeah, good luck with that. :lol

Shotgun is still whored as ever, nothing has been done to fortify spawn areas so entire matches spent hemmed in the spawn is still a regular occurence on certain maps, and the "precision" controls are anything but.

Ultimately I think the game is flawed in a way that isn't fixable with the current design of generic maps that have to host all gametypes. You need maps designed specifically for objective play, with progressive/regressive fortified spawns that eliminate the need for the mobile spawns. The whole class system needs an overhaul too, but I'm not too hopeful anyhthing significant will be done.

You're not playing it right.

Tactician spawns are not useless; your team is useless.

Tactician spawns need to be properly defended, and that means getting the engineers on your team to plant some turrets around spawnpoints and your tactians placing air support around spawnpoints as well.

A team getting destroyed at their own spawn point is their own fucking fault.

 

[Kittonwy]

Where did I mention Warhawk?

You need to protect the spawns with your own turrets and C4, and then move forward as a team and place two spawns at completely different sides, so if one is camped you can spawn at the other one and come round the back of them or approach the objective. You need two good tacticians communicating and a few good engineers who are going to defend and try and complete the objectives. If you have two good teams, it's much better now. Less of a spam fest and much more tactical. The problem is as you're more reliant on your team if you have a crappy team, which is very likely in public games, you're gonna get camped and lose the objective.

I wish we're all in the same clan so we can all play together.

 

[KZObsessed]

I wish we're all in the same clan so we can all play together.

I want us all in one clan as well

You guys should just join us, would be the easiest thing to do. We have 88k VP. We should have over 100k but a certain couple (yes I said couple) lost 15k... I wont name any names but you know who you are!

GAFeveryone™

 

[jett]

What a mess this game has become with all the fucking patching. Wished Guerrilla would've sticked to their guns instead of listening to every nagging complaint.

 

[YoungHav]

I think the airbots were just fine b4 this patch. The original airbots could get kills if you put them in the right spots and were easy to take down (most people are too busy w/the ground war so this balances out).

Turrets should have never had anti-air missiles, those things made the airbots useless. Just take away the anti-air turret missiles and the above balance is their. The turrets are perfect otherwise. They do a lot of damage, tradeoff is you can take it down with a well placed grenade. I'd keep the turrets the same except get rid of the AA missiles.

 

[TTP]

So, how do you think GG should approach competitive online mode in their next game?

Should they stick with a class based system or should they rebuild it from scratch with a more "streamlined" set up (less variables, easier to balance)?

 

[Thrakier]

What a mess this game has become with all the fucking patching. Wished Guerrilla would've sticked to their guns instead of listening to every nagging complaint.

If this is a mess now, what was it before?

Seriously, yesterday evening I played the first game where I really had do think about where to place spawns and where to spawn. And if a spawn point is placed like shit it gets camped. Where is the problem?

 

[Kittonwy]

What a mess this game has become with all the fucking patching. Wished Guerrilla would've sticked to their guns instead of listening to every nagging complaint.

The problem now is that bad spawns get totally exposed for the shit spawns they are, and people will get more frustrated at the shit tacticians out there and there are ALOT. Not necessarily a bad thing though.

 

[Thrakier]

I think people will learn that very fast that they have a disadvantage if they just throw the spawn next to the objective. They can do that but they have to expect to die A LOT. I think that's a fair trade off.

 

[alr1ght]

damn, stationary turrets + air bots = 3:1 KDR without even trying. Those things are too lethal.

 

[karasu]

This thread makes this game sound intimidating as crap. You guys sound like career soldiers or some shit.

 

[Lince]

new tweak for next patch: option for no smoke coming off the spawn and Elite Tacticians (only for players with 50k+ points) being able to defuse poorly placed spawns.

 

[Cagen]

You guys should just join us, would be the easiest thing to do. We have 88k VP. We should have over 100k but a certain couple (yes I said couple) lost 15k... I wont name any names but you know who you are!

..and damn proud of it :lol.

The way it was before, the offense had the advantage. Now you've made it so the defence has the advantage.

Exactly. All the patch did was sway the advantage the other way, it didn't solve the problem of spawn grenades.

So, how do you think GG should approach competitive online mode in their next game?

Should they stick with a class based system or should they rebuild it from scratch with a more "streamlined" set up (less variables, easier to balance)?

They should fix game breaking exploits in their competitive system as to not have it a complete joke. Anyway, I love class based systems though I am not sure GG are up to the task of balancing it properly or fixing their balancing issues effectively or quickly enough. If they go with a class based system hopefully they will have learnt from their mistakes.

 

[-viper-]

I want us all in one clan as well

You guys should just join us, would be the easiest thing to do. We have 88k VP. We should have over 100k but a certain couple (yes I said couple) lost 15k... I wont name any names but you know who you are!

GAFeveryone™

best idea

 

[Rolf NB]

This thread makes this game sound intimidating as crap. You guys sound like career soldiers or some shit.

It's quite demanding if you want to get objectives done, more so when you just hop into random games alone.

If you just want to make a few kills, spawn back at the base when you see a clusterfuck going on and you'll be fine.

 

[Raist]

(yes I said couple) lost 15k... I wont name any names but you know who you are!

Dunno wtf you're talking about.

Spoiler

It's Cagen's fault

 

[JardeL]

Turrets should have never had anti-air missiles, those things made the airbots useless. Just take away the anti-air turret missiles and the above balance is their.

Great idea...

- Remove anti-air missiles and bring back good old airbots but add more armor to them
- Remove smokey spawn grenades , we dont need smoke [ whats the point of it ? ]
- Copy Warhawk for Spawns
- Maybe you should change the entire class selection thing. Max. 2 tacts and 2 engs maybe. And let the experienced players choose classes at first
- Server info in menu
- Fix team-balance. This doesn't work as it's supposed to be. Don't allow players to join teammates' faction in the middle of the game , if teams are not balanced. It is 13-10 eg., and I still can join 13 and can make it more unbalanced , whats the point of this ?
- If you really care about teammates then create a party mode like Uncharted 2.
- Ban Assault class and STA-3 stova
- Ask for Insomniac's help too , for a great netcode.

You made the game unplayable right now , because vast majority have no idea about Tactician and strategies... Sooner or later they'll quit because of spawn-die-spawn-die-spawn-die crap... 170K last week , it's gonna be lower than that if you dont fix imo...

 

[Fersis]

Guys are you talking about Killzone 3 right?

 

[Lince]

there is a trophy for placing spawn points coming with the new maps, everyone will be getting that trophy for sure... are we fucked already? new maps instantly unplayable?

 

[Raist]

- Ask for Insomniac's help too , for a great netcode.

I'm not sure they have better netcode. Dedicated servs help a lot

 

[Fersis]

I'm not sure they have better netcode. Dedicated servs help a lot

When you have 60 players with lots of stuff doing collisions and no game breaking lag you know its good net code.

 

[Inanna]

As far as tweaking the spawn invincibility goes... It plays better as it is now, and perhaps the only change I would test/consider, would be to have the players not spawn on a single point. Maybe increase the radius of the spawn point, so that someone cannot just stand on the spawn and melee killing every person who spawns(which is happening now). The idea would be for you to materialize/spawn in maybe a two foot random radius of the spawn point.

I don't really mind people spawn camping. It's what you would do if such a thing really existed. Now you have come up with a tactic to thwart camping.

I agree, also make it so that people would spawn behind the spawn camper/player of the opposite team standing near the spawn point!! That would solve of the spawn camping.

 

[KZObsessed]

So, how do you think GG should approach competitive online mode in their next game?

Should they stick with a class based system or should they rebuild it from scratch with a more "streamlined" set up (less variables, easier to balance)?

I'd rather have it remain as complicated as it is with it's difficulty to balance if it remains as fun and varied, than if they streamlined it and I get bored in less than 50 hours like with CoD4.

They desperately need dedicated servers for KZ3, no debate on that. Lag annoys me more than anything. You have your framerate and aliasing, I have my lag

I think maybe they should get rid of the spawn grenades and have a grid based system across every map where you have to capture zones in order to spawn there. Similar-ish to warhawk but a lot more of them, anywhere on the map.

Get rid of Assault/boost/rocket/grenade launchers coz that's all bullshit. BUT the reason Assault class is there is to break through a strong defense so you can argue it's kind of necessary in some games. Maybe they should restrict 1 Assault per game or simply come up with a better class to help break through turret defenses.

A demolition class maybe. EMP grenades to do extra damage to turrets, tho they can't harm people, maybe a rocket launcher with homing missiles to take out air bots, which can't be used against other players. Give him an LMG and away we go.

If they're gonna stick with 32 players,which they will because it will look bad dropping the numbers, they need more large scale maps. And restrict the smaller maps to smaller numbers of players. People are idiots, they'll play 32 on Tharsis if it's possible.

More search options. Said it a million times now, and they've only reduced the amount of search options since launch, which is complete BS. If they're gonna give people freedom to alter so much, then they need way more detailed search/filter options.

Tutorials on how to use the classes. Teach people how to throw spawn grendaes and the best places for them.

Party System + the awesome join friend features they have now.

 

[Rolf NB]

They should, in no particular order:

• remove the assault class, boost and rocket launchers from MP
• add a fucking tutorial slide on how spawn grenades will be facing
• learn to tell the difference between good feedback and bad feedback. E.g. whining trophy whores are really the only way to explain the buffs done to the airbots recently. Don't make changes to appease whining trophy whores if it compromises the game.

edit: oh and the new party system ... really tends to tip faction balance off a cliff. I'd suggest ignoring any random players when you determine what squad matchups should stay consistent across games. Prioritize clan members, people on friends list second, never consider any other player. That way individual people (as opposed to whole squads) will more readily move over to a short faction when the map cycles.

 

[careful]

Would like to add some feedback after my first serious post-patch play session last night (btw Tiddles, I only play full Warzone).
At the moment, there's one deciding variable that determines the quality of play in random public games: who is playing tactician on your team.
This one factor will make or break a game. A clueless Tactician throwing spawns circa 1.26 will get their team destroyed and frustrated (also doesn't help that your average player is stubborn and can't learn or adapt).
However, in games where the team tactician will drop spawns in safer locations further away from the objectives and the team takes care of protecting the spawn, the game plays infinitely better than pre-1.27 as there are no more clusterfuck on top of objectives and no spawn camping either.

The problem with all this (relying on one player / one class to make or break the game), is that the game is now incredibly casual-unfriendly. With the lack of tutorial or information about spawn grenades, a casual player joining a public game with a bad tactician will end up being really frustrated to the point of probably rage quitting and heading right back to Gamestop with KZ2 in hand.

I really hope the player base becomes more informed about spawn points (mostly invincibility removal), because it really makes a huge difference in how the game plays. However, the fact that a large portion of people dropping spawn points still haven't figured out the spawn facing direction might be an indicator of how this will play out..
My suggestion still stands: force every single loading screen to be a tutorial about spawn points, or remove the tactician class altogether.

 

[alr1ght]

force every single loading screen to be a tutorial about spawn points

force every single loading screen to be a tutorial about spawn points

force every single loading screen to be a tutorial about spawn points

force every single loading screen to be a tutorial about spawn points

force every single loading screen to be a tutorial about spawn points

force every single loading screen to be a tutorial about spawn points

force every single loading screen to be a tutorial about spawn points

plz

 

[Blader]

I'm playing through the campaign for the first time now, and for the most part I've been enjoying it. I say "for the most part" because I'm at the end now and it seems like that the game has gotten really cheap for this last level. Nevermind the constant respawning waves of Helghast, but this final fight

Spoiler

with Radec

is such bullshit.

Spoiler

He can teleport behind me with some instant-kill attack? Come the fuck on.

Does anyone else feel this way, or do I just suck?

 

[cresto]

this game doesnt have dedicated servers? no way a single person can host 32 players is there? i mean gears can barely handle 10

 

[Rapping Granny]

Damn, Uncharted 2 beta has ruined this game for me, I am now used to the luxuries of a Party System, friend invites and matchmaking.

Damn.

 

[-viper-]

I'd rather have it remain as complicated as it is with it's difficulty to balance if it remains as fun and varied, than if they streamlined it and I get bored in less than 50 hours like with CoD4.

They desperately need dedicated servers for KZ3, no debate on that. Lag annoys me more than anything. You have your framerate and aliasing, I have my lag

I think maybe they should get rid of the spawn grenades and have a grid based system across every map where you have to capture zones in order to spawn there. Similar-ish to warhawk but a lot more of them, anywhere on the map.

Get rid of Assault/boost/rocket/grenade launchers coz that's all bullshit. BUT the reason Assault class is there is to break through a strong defense so you can argue it's kind of necessary in some games. Maybe they should restrict 1 Assault per game or simply come up with a better class to help break through turret defenses.

A demolition class maybe. EMP grenades to do extra damage to turrets, tho they can't harm people, maybe a rocket launcher with homing missiles to take out air bots, which can't be used against other players. Give him an LMG and away we go.

If they're gonna stick with 32 players,which they will because it will look bad dropping the numbers, they need more large scale maps. And restrict the smaller maps to smaller numbers of players. People are idiots, they'll play 32 on Tharsis if it's possible.

More search options. Said it a million times now, and they've only reduced the amount of search options since launch, which is complete BS. If they're gonna give people freedom to alter so much, then they need way more detailed search/filter options.

Tutorials on how to use the classes. Teach people how to throw spawn grendaes and the best places for them.

Party System + the awesome join friend features they have now.

EMP class sounds awesome. Good ability to use. Rocket launchers and boost needs to be removed.

If they are going to use spawn grenades, they really need to remove the smokes, to help eliminate spawn camping.

I think they need to have specific map playlists linked to player count. i.e. 32 player server? large map playlist only. 16 player server? all maps available to play. 8-10 player server? medium/small maps only.

edit: oh i see you've mentioned that already.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Talking about Killzone 3, the first things that come to mind:

- Party system is a must, I can't believe they had never heard of Party system before, that's kinda crazy. What they have now is good and they should keep that but also include a party system.
- Co op is becoming pretty common place now, just do it like Uncharted 2 is doing and Resistance 2 did, not interfering with the SP campaign. And allow for online as well as split screen local MP.
- Allow offline split screen competitive against bots in skirmish mode, either on the same team or against each other.
- Allow online split screen competitive, like warhawk, but allow different logins for each player so they can login with their PSN ID.

 

[Lince]

They desperately need dedicated servers for KZ3, no debate on that. Lag annoys me more than anything.

Get rid of Assault/boost/rocket/grenade launchers coz that's all bullshit. BUT the reason Assault class is there is to break through a strong defense so you can argue it's kind of necessary in some games. Maybe they should restrict 1 Assault per game or simply come up with a better class to help break through turret defenses.

EMP grenades to do extra damage to turrets, tho they can't harm people, maybe a rocket launcher with homing missiles to take out air bots, which can't be used against other players. Give him an LMG and away we go.

If they're gonna stick with 32 players,which they will because it will look bad dropping the numbers, they need more large scale maps. And restrict the smaller maps to smaller numbers of players. People are idiots, they'll play 32 on Tharsis if it's possible.

More search options. Said it a million times now, and they've only reduced the amount of search options since launch, which is complete BS. If they're gonna give people freedom to alter so much, then they need way more detailed search/filter options.

Tutorials on how to use the classes. Teach people how to throw spawn grenades and the best places for them.

Party System + the awesome join friend features they have now.

brilliant post, hope GG taking notes. I'll be playing KZ2 today, last time I played was the day the patch was released and it was comical the way tacticians played as nothing had changed, let's see how things are now.

 

[Liabe Brave]

...maybe a rocket launcher with homing missiles to take out air bots...

They already have that. In multiplayer the ISA rocket launcher will lock on to airbots (that's its advantage versus the faster reload of the HGH one).

 

[KZObsessed]

They already have that. In multiplayer the ISA rocket launcher will lock on to airbots (that's its advantage versus the faster reload of the HGH one).

...that only the demolition class can use and that can't be used against human opponents.

Maybe they could have an anti-air drone turret or something, instead of the homing rocket launcher, which fires rockets at air drones like the normal turrets now. Reduce the damage of the air drones back to the way it was, and keep the rate of fire of the anti-air drone turret how it is now, after the patch.

Give the demolition class +2 instead of +1 for every turret/air drone they destroy as an added incentive to use the class. They also get the LMG which a few people like to use, and they wouldn't have to just use the basic solider class then.

The more I think of it, the more I'm liking this idea. Much better than the assault class anyway. They should add a Demolition class to the game with DLC and see how it works out.

 

[scoobs]

I'm playing through the campaign for the first time now, and for the most part I've been enjoying it. I say "for the most part" because I'm at the end now and it seems like that the game has gotten really cheap for this last level. Nevermind the constant respawning waves of Helghast, but this final fight

Spoiler

with Radec

is such bullshit.

Spoiler

He can teleport behind me with some instant-kill attack? Come the fuck on.

Does anyone else feel this way, or do I just suck?

Radec's really not hard at all, its the guards before him that are the hard part. For Radec I'd recommend picking up a shotgun and everytime u hear him teleport, look behind you lol... it sounds ridiculous but i never have a problem killing him and i've beaten the game on elite.

 

[Rikyfree]

Radec's really not hard at all, its the guards before him that are the hard part. For Radec I'd recommend picking up a shotgun and everytime u hear him teleport, look behind you lol... it sounds ridiculous but i never have a problem killing him and i've beaten the game on elite.

No kidding, killed him on the first try every time on every difficulty. Guards are by FAR the hardest part of that fight. So if you have made it past them, imo, you're on easy street now.

 

[Arnie]

Whoever is [GAFe] Septh, we just had some good games on the opposite teams. I was VociferousTURTLE and I came top of my team on Phyruss with about 150 points. Finally finished all of my medic badges and now I'm going to concentrate on my air bot medal.

 

[Thrakier]

Whoever is [GAFe] Septh, we just had some good games on the opposite teams. I was VociferousTURTLE and I came top of my team on Phyruss with about 150 points. Finally finished all of my medic badges and now I'm going to concentrate on my air bot medal.

It's Seph. And my team sucked. However the K/D whore was satisfied. Somewhat.

 

[M3Freak]

I wish we're all in the same clan so we can all play together.

I wish we had a game where all of the old R:FoM guys could get together again to play, play, play.

 

[Arnie]

It's Seph. And my team sucked. However the K/D whore was satisfied. Somewhat.

Ha yes your tem were terrible. I remember seeing about 4 guys sniping on Phyruss whilst you were meant to be attacking in search and destroy.

 

[alr1ght]

One thing I'd wish they would change would be not having bot kills count as a kill on the score screen, as they don't really count towards kills.

 

[careful]

One thing I'd wish they would change would be not having bot kills count as a kill on the score screen, as they don't really count towards kills.

Yes, this and extra headshot points make the kill score really ambiguous.

 

[Zeliard]

So, how do you think GG should approach competitive online mode in their next game?

Should they stick with a class based system or should they rebuild it from scratch with a more "streamlined" set up (less variables, easier to balance)?

The biggest issue are probably the maps. You can't create one map for five different gametypes and expect anything to be properly balanced. When you then add in 7 different classes plus hybrid badges and such, that just makes it an even bigger problem.

 

[Zen]

there is a trophy for placing spawn points coming with the new maps, everyone will be getting that trophy for sure... are we fucked already? new maps instantly unplayable?

Don't worry, they'll only be unplayable for 2 weeks until no one plays them anymore because of how the search function filters games with them out.

 

[peetfeet]

Having bought the first DLC pack and struggling day 1 to find games using the maps I'm reluctantly not buying the new pack. I have'nt managed to find any servers using the maps since it originally came out and as a result I've hardly played KZ online at all since.

Why oh why haven't they patched in the ability to see maps before joining (and classes banned for that matter), looking at the rankings this week the online population playing is dropping drastically I can't see that changing until they do this.

 

[Bearillusion]

Radec's really not hard at all, its the guards before him that are the hard part. For Radec I'd recommend picking up a shotgun and everytime u hear him teleport, look behind you lol... it sounds ridiculous but i never have a problem killing him and i've beaten the game on elite.

No need to look behind you if you stand in a corner. Very easy really.

 

[Thrakier]

Having bought the first DLC pack and struggling day 1 to find games using the maps I'm reluctantly not buying the new pack. I have'nt managed to find any servers using the maps since it originally came out and as a result I've hardly played KZ online at all since.

Why oh why haven't they patched in the ability to see maps before joining (and classes banned for that matter), looking at the rankings this week the online population playing is dropping drastically I can't see that changing until they do this.

I hate that. They sell two maps for 6€ which is completly wasted money if you are the dumb guy who byus them because no one else is paying so much for those maps.

 

[borsdy]

One thing I'd wish they would change would be not having bot kills count as a kill on the score screen, as they don't really count towards kills.

Yes, this and extra headshot points make the kill score really ambiguous.

++

I really don't understand why they did this.