Support NeoGAF

[Massa]

Can you use two Sharpshooters/move in Killzone 3 Co-op?

No Move support in split screen.

 

[10dollas]

Most players do no team work in BC2, the game simply just flows better as a team game. KZ3 just tosses players in and expects them to know what's up and how to play. In many cases BC2 really requires less team work and is less class dependant while KZ3 problem is that it really requires people to be playing their roles and you need specific classes like the Tact or shits not going to work.

KZ3 simply is more punishing of a game for random players.

I think BC2 flows better as a team game because of intentional smart design decisions. All classes are useful and have a very important role to fill. You are well rewarded for fulfilling team roles as well. Points for teammates using your ammo crates are generous, motion sensor kill assists, spammable revive with lots of points involved as well. HEaling from medic crates also yield good points and repair points are plentiful. Then of course, if you want to see the next part of rush, you're incentivized to push forward and succeed. Not to mention sitting back as an attacker is going to accomplish nothing, because the defensive team, unless overzealous, is not going to come to you (snipers being the exception here). Everything combined encourages use of all classes and to push forward in a team like fashion.

This isn't the same for Kz3. Sitting back and killing people is often times the best way to earn a stable amount of points. Performing team functions like TSP capturing, and reviving don't earn you much points. All classes are not created equal. The engineer is a weak class. The medic is mediocre. The strongest classes are more of a lonewolf type. With everything combined, there is little incentive in risking dying repeatedly from putting your neck on the line to win an objective or to be a helpful teammate. Sure repairing crates is worthwhile, and planting a bomb will net some points. But the punishment you place yourself through of dying repeatedly to capture a TSP and then to be defenseless with your life in the hands of teammates who surely wont sacrifice themselves to ensure you live to plant the bomb is not worth it to most players.

oops quoted the wrong person

 

[Cagen]

So you're saying one team knows how to properly defend their TSP, take your own and do the objectives all at the same time? Sounds like the other team is just better than your team.

I've played against a lot of clans in pub matches. They're usually no better than regular teams.

Exactly how high is that horse you're sitting on?

 

[Massa]

Exactly how high is that horse you're sitting on?

I'm not sitting on any horse, I simply play the game and enjoy the heck out of it instead of pretending to be smarter than the "gorillas" and cursing them every time something goes in the other team's favor.

 

[10dollas]

Can you use two Sharpshooters/move in Killzone 3 Co-op?

no, you can't even use one move controller in co-op

 

[ilikemonkeys]

Can you use two Sharpshooters/move in Killzone 3 Co-op?

No.

 

[TheExecutive]

I really don't get this criticism. Each team battles ruthlessly for that spawn point, what's wrong with that? It's still a level playing field.

No... 1 team takes it and holds it for the rest of the map. A team with any sort of competence will never lose the TSP once taken.

 

[Massa]

No... 1 team takes it and holds it for the rest of the map. A team with any sort of competence will never lose the TSP once taken.

Exactly, which is why Pyrrus Crater is the only problematic map in the game for Warzone.

 

[alr1ght]

I'm not sitting on any horse, I simply play the game and enjoy the heck out of it instead of pretending to be smarter than the "gorillas" and cursing them every time something goes in the other team's favor.

Anyone here complaining is probably playing with gaf, and we usually run over most teams. We aren't complaining due to getting killed.

 

[Massa]

Anyone here complaining is probably playing with gaf, and we usually run over most teams.

And when I play BC2 with GAF we usually run over most teams as well. And if you played KZ2 with GAF today the same would happen. That's just how a team class based shooter usually goes with a team of very good players versus a team of not so very good and uncoordinated players.

 

[Slappers Only]

I've been in some zany alien jungle for quite a while now, and if I make too much noise the Crysis dudes run up and present me with their throats for slashing. The sniping play is pretty great here, but I'm quickly losing momentum in this game. Not sure why, but the universe is starting to positively disinterest me.

 

[TheExecutive]

I'm not sitting on any horse, I simply play the game and enjoy the heck out of it instead of pretending to be smarter than the "gorillas" and cursing them every time something goes in the other team's favor.

I can agree with playing and enjoying it but to deny some blatant flaws in map design and coming back and saying "you think you are smarter than the developers by pointing out what you call flaws just because something doesnt go your way" is really arrogant. If you possibly think that the top TSP in Turbine is well balanced then you're nuts.

 

[10dollas]

And when I play BC2 with GAF we usually run over most teams as well. And if you played KZ2 with GAF today the same would happen. That's just how a team class based shooter usually goes with a team of very good players versus a team of not so very good and uncoordinated players.

Yeah and you missed the point entirely. The GAF that are complaining (a lot of them at least) aren't complaining because the game isn't going their way--> they are running over teams mostly after all.

I'm not sitting on any horse, I simply play the game and enjoy the heck out of it instead of pretending to be smarter than the "gorillas" and cursing them every time something goes in the other team's favor.

 

[Thrakier]

They've taken out those HGH symbols from the SP and the documents? Why? I liked to collect them in KZ2.

 

[Massa]

I can agree with playing and enjoying it but to deny some blatant flaws in map design and coming back and saying "you think you are smarter than the developers by pointing out what you call flaws just because something doesnt go your way" is really arrogant. If you possibly think that the top TSP in Turbine is well balanced then your fucking nuts.

My point is that if you go into the game, *any* game, with the attitude of "oh well, it's shit but I'm buying it so we can have fun talking about how shit it is" there's absolutely no chance you'll enjoy the game. People made up their minds about it before going in and there's nothing that will change that.

 

[10dollas]

My point is that if you go into the game, *any* game, with the attitude of "oh well, it's shit but I'm buying it so we can have fun talking about how shit it is" there's absolutely no chance you'll enjoy the game. People made up their minds about it before going in and there's nothing that will change that.

Yes, because people make it a habit on dropping 60 large ones for the sole purpose of having something to complain about. Do you think before you type some of this crap?

 

[TheExecutive]

My point is that if you go into the game, *any* game, with the attitude of "oh well, it's shit but I'm buying it so we can have fun talking about how shit it is" there's absolutely no chance you'll enjoy the game. People made up their minds about it before going in and there's nothing that will change that.

I also agree with this statement, but if that was the point of the post I quoted you did a piss poor job of conveying it. Oh and I really dont think anyone does what you mentioned above...

 

[Massa]

Yes, because people make it a habit on dropping 60 large ones for the sole purpose of having something to complain about. Do you think before you type some of this crap?

Were a member during the beta threads before the game launched? I'm sure you'd remember some people were saying exactly that.

 

[Cagen]

There was a way we could play all the maps before release? Wish I had known about this!

 

[GraveRobberX]

My point is that if you go into the game, *any* game, with the attitude of "oh well, it's shit but I'm buying it so we can have fun talking about how shit it is" there's absolutely no chance you'll enjoy the game. People made up their minds about it before going in and there's nothing that will change that.

Your just trying to create drama, for drama sakes now

I put enough hours into KZ2, I was hoping KZ3 would follow in it's foot steps

I paid for all the DLC, bought KZ2 twice, have 100% with 84/84 trophies

I started to play KZ3 through the closed/open BETA, things were different, yet the reason you have BETA's is to see if the community finds bugs/glitches/any balancing issues, it's like free Q&A for them

They were moments of hope from the dev saying, they would look into it, and things will be adjusted

So going on that false hope, I rented KZ3 from GameFly, but before it got to my house, and the hype in the thread I said fuck it, pressed the keep it button, got myself brand new copy for $40

Then little by little flaws started appearing, the MP is the main part of KZ, not SP

Listen I have platinumed it, 59/59 trophies, will buy DLC (the trophy whore, 100% OCD in me) and now rather than it being my daily shooter, it's now a casual MP experience of here and there on my 3DTV

So a guy who was hardcore in KZ2 is now pushed to casual state in KZ3 due to flaws and glaring issues

 

[ilikemonkeys]

Yes, because people make it a habit on dropping 60 large ones for the sole purpose of having something to complain about. Do you think before you type some of this crap?

It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

I'm not sitting on any horse, I simply play the game and enjoy the heck out of it instead of pretending to be smarter than the "gorillas" and cursing them every time something goes in the other team's favor.

I don't think you understand. 90% of GAF matches (against randoms or clans) ends in domination, either 7-0, 6-1, or 5-2 in GAF's favor. We don't find faults in the game because "we are the suck."

You may turn a blind eye to the flaws in this game, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

It still can be an enjoyable game in its current state, but there is room for major improvement.

 

[Massa]

There was a way we could play all the maps before release? Wish I had known about this!

That's fine, if you say you came into KZ3 with a neutral or positive attitude and gave it a fair chance and not a "Fix This Shit Gorilla" attitude then I'm not going to argue with you.

 

[jorma]

Yes, because people make it a habit on dropping 60 large ones for the sole purpose of having something to complain about. Do you think before you type some of this crap?

There are people who spent 300 on a console just to do that..

 

[10dollas]

Were a member during the beta threads before the game launched? I'm sure you'd remember some people were saying exactly that.

Yes I've actually been a member of GAf longer than yourself. I don't remember any sort of that talk, other than rage that the game was shit in current form and people holding out for it to be better.

There are people who spent 300 on a console just to do that..

Come on lets be real here. Sure people will badmouth stuff on the forums relentlessly, but that doesn't mean they truly buy stuff to ONLY bitch about it. They secretly like it, or at least hope to like it.

Regardless, I'm sure there does exist that sort of very minuscule sadistic minority someplace. But still, to bring this up as a (talking about Massa here) talking point under the guise of relevance is such a sham.

 

[Cagen]

That's fine, if you say you came into KZ3 with a neutral or positive attitude and gave it a fair chance and not a "Fix This Shit Gorilla" attitude then I'm not going to argue with you.

The "Fix this shit guerrilla" stuff is just a joke, it's not some state of mind people have. It was making light of issues we had with KZ2 which we knew were never going to get fixed and naturally the GAF meme migrated over to KZ3.

I played in both Betas, I knew the issues, I had a lot personally and I wrote a fair bit of commentary on it, one of the deva even said he had to take a break and get a coffee after reading half of one of my feedback posts with it being so long. Guerilla promised a fair few changes, some they followed through with, others not so much.

My main issue is the terrible map design, I have many, many others all of which I could over look, especially with the forth coming patches but the map design means I will never play K3 multiplayer again and this saddens me as I was greatly looking forward to playing with my old GAF friends again and making some new ones.

I play to be competitive, it's in my nature, I play to win. I don't get enjoyment out of public games, I get enjoyment out of organisation, tactics and team play, of which I couldn't get into in KZ3. Now the map design isn't so much of a problem in public games but it is awful for competitive games and a lot of it comes down to the TSPs.

Guerrilla even said they had looked at TSPs and added some to maps, now admittedly we had only played 3 maps before release but they only put one extra TSP in one map and they didn't even need to do that, they just needed to add entry points to the current TSPs without having to have a jetpack which we suggested, multiple times. Also, after the complaining we did about the TSP balance in the beta, Guerrilla seemingly taking it on board and supposedly looking at it, I can't believe they thought having only one on Phyruss Crater was a good idea.

 

[cnizzle06]

No... 1 team takes it and holds it for the rest of the map. A team with any sort of competence will never lose the TSP once taken.

No, that has not been my experience in my many hours of game play. Some of you guys try to make these complaints so black and white and all-encompassing that it's rather ridiculous.

 

[Massa]

Yes I've actually been a member of GAf longer than yourself. I don't remember any sort of that talk, other than rage that the game was shit in current form and people holding out for it to be better.





Come on lets be real here. Sure people will badmouth stuff on the forums relentlessly, but that doesn't mean they truly buy stuff to ONLY bitch about it. They secretly like it, or at least hope to like it.

Regardless, I'm sure there does exist that sort of very minuscule sadistic minority someplace. But still, to bring this up as a (talking about Massa here) talking point under the guise of relevance is such a sham.

I don't disagree that people who bought KZ3 after shitting on the beta and who have been constantly complaining since they got their hands in the final version wanted to like the game.

What I do believe is that some people never game this game a fair chance. People who questioned every single change even before getting familiar with them, or trying to understand what it brought to the table. You're free to disagree.

The quote you took issue with was me paraphrasing a post that I'm not going to dig up, but it sure as hell was a very common sentiment in these threads and I'm 100% sure of it being posted almost word by word.

The "Fix this shit guerrilla" stuff is just a joke, it's not some state of mind people have. It was making light of issues we had with KZ2 which we knew were never going to get fixed and naturally the GAF meme migrated over to KZ3.

I played in both Betas, I knew the issues, I had a lot personally and I wrote a fair bit of commentary on it, one of the deva even said he had to take a break and get a coffee after reading half of one of my feedback posts with it being so long. Guerilla promised a fair few changes, some they followed through with, others not so much.

My main issue is the terrible map design, I have many, many others all of which I could over look, especially with the forth coming patches but the map design means I will never play K3 multiplayer again and this saddens me as I was greatly looking forward to playing with my old GAF friends again and making some new ones.

I play to be competitive, it's in my nature, I play to win. I don't get enjoyment out of public games, I get enjoyment out of organisation, tactics and team play, of which I couldn't get into in KZ3. Now the map design isn't so much of a problem in public games but it is awful for competitive games and a lot of it comes down to the TSPs.

Guerrilla even said they had looked at TSPs and added some to maps, now admittedly we had only played 3 maps before release but they only put one extra TSP in one map and they didn't even need to do that, they just needed to add entry points to the current TSPs without having to have a jetpack which we suggested, multiple times. Also, after the complaining we did about the TSP balance in the beta, Guerrilla seemingly taking it on board and supposedly looking at it, I can't believe they thought having only one on Phyruss Crater was a good idea.

Fair enough. I agree with many of your complaints as well (Pyrrhus Crater, for example, is shit), and remember healthy discussions with you during the beta. I just think this game is a lot better than people are giving it credit for here, and it fixes the main issues I had with KZ2 (which is still my most played game on PS3, I absolutely loved it).

 

[10dollas]

Fair enough^^.

If you're interested in killzoning it out with a fellow GAF member . Hit me up, as iodollas

 

[.GqueB.]

Fair enough^^.

If you're interested in killzoning it out with a fellow GAF member . Hit me up, as iodollas

I thought you were gonna stop playing?

 

[commish]

Exactly, which is why Pyrrus Crater is the only problematic map in the game for Warzone.

No offense, but how can you say this if you don't play competitively against organized teams? Like many people have said, many of the fundamental problems of the game are magnified when playing with (or against) organized teams who know how to take advantage of GG's terrible design choices. Sure, in public games where I can go an entire match without a single person trying to get a spawn point, it's easy to minimize the TSP issue or map design issues. But in competitive play, most maps just don't work.

Even though some of us complain rather loudly, a lot of us still play every day and enjoy the game for what it is. It's just disappointing to see the problems with the game when 1) the problem stems from features removed from KZ2 or 2) the problem is so blatantly obvious that GG seemingly doesn't give a shit.

 

[Cagen]

No, that has not been my experience in my many hours of game play. Some of you guys try to make these complaints so black and white and all-encompassing that it's rather ridiculous.

They are pretty much that black and White in clan games.

 

[10dollas]

I thought you were gonna stop playing?

I'm bipolar, what can i say?

Did you know we share the same Gaf birthdate? I think that makes us GAFmates for life.




Maybe not...

 

[.GqueB.]

I'm bipolar, what can i say?

Youre a liar. You lied in the KZ3 thread. Right to my e-face.

Did you know we share the same Gaf birthdate? I think that makes us GAFmates for life.




Maybe not...

 

[10dollas]

Youre a liar. You lied in the KZ3 thread. Right to my e-face.

Can directing you to a 5 dolla suckie suckie hotline make up for my transgression against mandatory internet etiquette?

 

[Massa]

No offense, but how can you say this if you don't play competitively against organized teams? Like many people have said, many of the fundamental problems of the game are magnified when playing with (or against) organized teams who know how to take advantage of GG's terrible design choices. Sure, in public games where I can go an entire match without a single person trying to get a spawn point, it's easy to minimize the TSP issue or map design issues. But in competitive play, most maps just don't work.

I see a lot of organized teams in public matches. Just like BC2 which has no proper clan games at all, it can go either way. I usually just quit if either team is rubbish in both these games.

I also see a lot of clans in public matches that are complete rubbish. I know this because I'm used thinking "oh shit..." when I see a lot of clan tags in BC2 and this has only happened once with me in KZ3. It was also the only completely unbalanced game I had in Turbine.

Edit: now that I think about it, a common complaint here around KZ2 was that teams would take the speaker in S&R and hide in their own base after scoring the first one. And that is precisely why I don't like to play in clan games, people just do anything to win. In KZ2 I mostly played private servers with friends or pub matches and so I almost never ran into that kind of shit.

 

[.GqueB.]

Can directing you to a 5 dolla suckie suckie hotline make up for my transgression against mandatory internet etiquette?

Too expensive. Im not made of money.

 

[lorddct]

no, you can't even use one move controller in co-op

Is there any intention to fix this in a patch?

 

[Yopis]

This thread has me thinking I will pick this up after the patch.

 

[TheExecutive]

Is there any intention to fix this in a patch?

If I had to guess it would be a no but I would love to be proven wrong.

 

[patsu]

TSPs are far worse than spawn grenades. Far far worse.

I object ! ^_^

It's more controlled. They only need to add more, and tweak the "difficulty" to recapture TSPs.

What KZ2 classes do/did people usually play as ? In KZ3, the Tactician becomes a "regular" fighter compared to other advanced classes. Does that disappoint people ? (It's hard work capturing TSP).

 

[mr_nothin]

Every WarZone should start off with Body Count, then shuffle in the rest of the shit, why would you create disadvantages from the get go?

Great idea! I was just thinking of this too.

I object ! ^_^

It's more controlled. They only need to add more, and tweak the "difficulty" to recapture TSPs.

What KZ2 classes do/did people usually play as ? In KZ3, the Tactician becomes a "regular" fighter compared to other advanced classes. Does that disappoint people ? (It's hard work capturing TSP).

It's not really hard work. You just dont seem like you're affecting the
outcome of the game, most of the time. You're stuck to running from TSP
to TSP a lot of the time....especially in games with randoms. It just gets boring,
stale, and static. It needs to be more dynamic. It also always feels like an uphill battle because as soon as you take 1 TSP, the other is being captured.

The main problem with spawn grenades was the utterly stupid community members that used them. I place some of that blame on GG, due to its implementation and lack of directions, though. They worked fantastic in clan matches and with competent teammates. A good tactician could direct the entire flow of the game. After they removed the spawn invincibility, they were completely balanced. No longer could you just toss the grenade into the middle of an objective; you would be killed instantly from people watching the spawn grenade. That's why a competent Tactician would put the spawn close to the objective and protect it with other teammates. It even somewhat forced the "lone wolves" into competing for the objective.

All of this is gone with the TSPs. No longer is the game dynamic. Alot of this is due to GG's implementation and poor map design. I even suggested way back when people were moaning about SGs that they should just use the C&H points for spawns. They did this somewhat in KZ3, but left out two key things; anyone could capture them and squad spawning. It utterly breaks the ebb and flow of the Warzone mode that worked so well in KZ2.

People have suggested to just replace the spawn grenades with a "spawn turret." The tactician would place the turret down like an Engineer would a regular turret, everyone would spawn the direction the turret was facing. The key thing would be that the turret would be destroyable by the other team. Now this doesn't fix the "dumbass player" component, but is the developer's job to inform the players how things work.

Basically, GG made the game easier to play with randoms and in turn completely ruined playing with competent teammates.

Exactly how I feel about the whole tactician/spawn grenade situation.
They basically converted the tactician from this guy:

To this guy:

I mean he's still the backbone and important but he's not really directing the team.

If they just insisted on cutting the spawn grenades..IMO they should have gone this route:

- Make the tactician a spawn point for everybody on your team.
- Limit the amount of ppl that can spawn on the tactician in a given time frame
(basically a cool down period after 4/5 ppl have spawned on you or something)
- An alternative is to do how BRINK does it and just allow waves of people to spawn on you.
- So a maximum of, lets say, 4 can spawn on you per 20 or 30 seconds and they all basically - have to queue up to spawn on you.
- You would HAVE to limit the amount of tacticians per team though. I'd say around 2 or 3 per team.

I think this would bring back the dynamics on the battlefield. I think it would feel more like
a push when the tactician's going for the TSPs because he has some buddies that can spawn
on him and help him move forward. He can also act as an active spawn point as to
direct the flow of battle.

IDK if I'm just way too biased or something but it sounds like the perfect mixture of
TSPs/Spawn Grenades/Squad Spawning while also getting rid of some of the problems that
each 1 had on "their own". There wouldnt be any spawn grenade raping because when the
tactician dies, so does the spawn point. It makes the battle for TSPs much more interesting
and strategic, instead of trying to lone wolf it (he can at least get ppl into the general area to
help kill the other team). The tacticians wouldnt just be stuck to going after TSPs the whole
game. They could also push forward to objectives. I think this would bring that whole
push/pull aspect of the tacticians in KZ2 back. It really made you feel like you were marking
your territory in KZ2, now it just feels like CTF. I will admit that I'm not exactly sure of the
potential problems that would result from this though.

 

[Sidzed2]

In my day we only ever needed two maps! And they were Facility and Temple! And they did us old folks fine! Didn't find us complainin' about game types and spawn campin' like you here whippersnappers! RCP90 for life!

Seriously though, judging by the comments in this thread I'm glad I'm not into online multi.

I thought KZ3's single player, while imperfect and a sideways step compared to its predecessor, was still fun enough to justify my purchase

 

[TheExecutive]

In my day we only ever needed two maps! And they were Facility and Temple! And they did us old folks fine! Didn't find us complainin' about game types and spawn campin' like you here whippersnappers! RCP90 for life!

Seriously though, judging by the comments in this thread I'm glad I'm not into online multi.

I thought KZ3's single player, while imperfect and a sideways step compared to its predecessor, was still fun enough to justify my purchase

Meh... its still fun. There are issues and some maps definitely need some balancing but the core game is still a ton of fun. I LOVE being a tactician. Dont ever let gaf tell you a game isnt good. PPl are just more vocal about flaws they see.

 

[mickcenary]

Sadly, the more I play, the less I want to. I'm strictly a Warzone kinda guy and I rely directly on the public to provide me with a competent and sportsman-like team. The game is maybe the most infuriating online experience if you're getting fucked on; this, unfortunately, is something that happens a lot.

In order to have fun with this game now (rather than have the urge to go outside and punch multiple babies in the head out of pure frustration), I need to be on a map that I like (VERY few), with a semi-competent team (rare) against opponents who aren't assault-rifle-you-in-the-back-of-the-skull-whilst-you-run-past-my-cloaked-person fuckbags (ALSO rare).

I need some semblance of consistency, too. I swear to god that on a day-to-day basis, it feels as if the amount of bullets needed to kill someone fluctuates like nobody's business.

I dunno. I WAS having fun, but now, I'm kinda just not. Even when I do, I'm having fun for the wrong reasons; I'm relishing in my UbEr L337 KDR, rather than my team's pooling together of assets and smart minds in order to win. It's reached the point now where the very few morsels of fun that I can squeeze out of this game aren't worth the frustration brought on by massive balancing issues, retarded people and horrible map design.

 

[.GqueB.]

- Make the tactician a spawn point for everybody on your team.
- Limit the amount of ppl that can spawn on the tactician in a given time frame
(basically a cool down period after 4/5 ppl have spawned on you or something)
- An alternative is to do how BRINK does it and just allow waves of people to spawn on you.
- So a maximum of, lets say, 4 can spawn on you per 20 or 30 seconds and they all basically - have to queue up to spawn on you.
- You would HAVE to limit the amount of tacticians per team though. I'd say around 2 or 3 per team.

Jesus christ look at all these rules, lol. All of this sounds good on paper but why make it all so cumbersome? Especially the last point. To simplify, let one person spawn on him per life and the only pre-requisite would be that the Tact cant currently be in the middle of a battle. Halo reach did this very well. No one was at an advantage no one was at a disadvantage. It was perfect.

But I still for the life of me cant understand the TSP hate. Some TSP's are questionably placed (Turbine) but for the most part they are fine. The spawn system in KZ2 just caused too many issues. The main one being they always lead to clusterfucks. Not just the spawn grenades either but even spawning on squad leader. Every game eventually devolved into everyone being at the same place at the same time no matter what. The system in KZ3 combats this quite efficiently.

It basically spreads out the action and makes it more manageable. Today I was playing Search and Destroy. Me and one other guy attacked the spot, I planted one bomb and the other guy got shot. I finished planting my bomb and was able to kill the guy that killed him, revive him and he was able to plant the bomb while I defended against the other team while they returned from their spawn point. It was magical. This would never... ever... EVER happen in KZ2. We would just be overrun by the other team because by then, they wouldve had a spawn grenade right on top of the objective (because thats how it always ended up). And if you got a crappily placed spawn grenade you were basically stuck with it. There was nothing "dynamic" about it in most instances. I would either spawn then die or spawn across the map and have to run all the way back. What was dynamic about it? Would you change the route you use to get to the objective? Would you use a different bridge every time on Phyrrus Rise?

The system now is just smarter. The placement can be a bit iffy at times but it allows for games to actually play out in a manageable way. All of your suggestions SOUND great (that was a lie) but I only see them leading back to all the crap that happened in KZ2.

And I want everyone to stop using the word "dynamic". Its appeared almost 6 times on the last two pages.

 

[Broadbandito]

so when is this patch coming? Need it. Have no ambition to play until it does so. Hopefully it saves the game for me

 

[mr_nothin]

Jesus christ look at all these rules, lol. All of this sounds good on paper but why make it all so cumbersome? Especially the last point. To simplify, let one person spawn on him per life and the only pre-requisite would be that the Tact cant currently be in the middle of a battle. Halo reach did this very well. No one was at an advantage no one was at a disadvantage. It was perfect.

But I still for the life of me cant understand the TSP hate. Some TSP's are questionably placed (Turbine) but for the most part they are fine. The spawn system in KZ2 just caused too many issues. The main one being they always lead to clusterfucks. Not just the spawn grenades either but even spawning on squad leader. Every game eventually devolved into everyone being at the same place at the same time no matter what. The system in KZ3 combats this quite efficiently.

It basically spreads out the action and makes it more manageable. Today I was playing Search and Destroy. Me and one other guy attacked the spot, I planted one bomb and the other guy got shot. I finished planting my bomb and was able to kill the guy that killed him, revive him and he was able to plant the bomb while I defended against the other team while they returned from their spawn point. It was magical. This would never... ever... EVER happen in KZ2. We would just be overrun by the other team because by then, they wouldve had a spawn grenade right on top of the objective (because thats how it always ended up). And if you got a crappily placed spawn grenade you were basically stuck with it. There was nothing "dynamic" about it in most instances. I would either spawn then die or spawn across the map and have to run all the way back. What was dynamic about it? Would you change the route you use to get to the objective? Would you use a different bridge every time on Phyrrus Rise?

The system now is just smarter. The placement can be a bit iffy at times but it allows for games to actually play out in a manageable way. All of your suggestions SOUND great (that was a lie) but I only see them leading back to all the crap that happened in KZ2.

And I want everyone to stop using the word "dynamic". Its appeared almost 6 times on the last two pages.

It's not clumbersome. You do realize that not all of those ideas would be implemented...a lot of them are either or. And you do realize that there are TONS of rules involved in just 1 mechanic right? That list would be pretty short compared to how many rules they'd have to actually code in. So you'd want any and everybody to be able to spawn on tacticians at any point? How is that too many rules? It's the problem that the spawn grenades had, they didnt have enough rules (ie: cant throw spawn grenade within this distance of objective and so on).

This so called "manageable action" is boring and it's basically like you're the infinite respawning enemies in a section of single player. Smarter? It has the potential to be "smarter" but it's implemented poorly. Did they not consider the respawn times for TSPs at all? I kill someone and run to neutralize, only to have the tact i just killed...respawn, run through my bullets with his invincibility, and melee me. It's stupid. I dont hate the TSP system, I just hate the fact that it's the only way to spawn. It needs to be complemented by some form of squad spawning or something.

Also, I've been saying KZ3's spawning system isnt as dynamic as KZ2 since the KZ3 beta. It's not a "new/cool" term to use for me.

 

[ilikemonkeys]

Any of you guys do a CM against those Inspire guys? or Xx-No_B!TcHN-xX?

 

[Zen]

Yes, because people make it a habit on dropping 60 large ones for the sole purpose of having something to complain about. Do you think before you type some of this crap?

Go take a look at the beta threads. :riplolemote: