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[alr1ght]

That is the problem, majority of players used them stupidly. Lot of concepts work good in an organized team structure, but play outside of a clan game and spawn grenades were utter shit. GG could have improved them, but they didn't really listen to the many good ideas players had.

And some of that blame falls on GG's shoulders. A simple tutorial on the Loading screen (which, who knows, they could write a novel on because they're so long) would have gone a long way. Instead they "fixed" it by completely removing it.

We know they're not coming back, simply stating that the present system is much worse.

 

[commish]

That wouldnt fix a thing. Clustergfucks were not exclusively caused by people who dynamically threw down spawn Grenades right on top of the objective. Ive seen dynamic Clusterfucks occur even when they were tossed a bit further away from the objective as well.

The problem was dynamic volume. No matter what, when spawn grenades werent dynamically throw ON the objective they were certainly thrown somewhere dynamically close so either way you have both teams spawning in the same area over and over again. Too many people in one dynamic area at one time. It dynamically happened pretty much everytime. It was dynamically a damn near guarantee. The TSP's aid in dynamically breaking up the action a bit. Spreading things out so 16 people arent spawning within a couple of dynamic meters within eachother for five dynamic minutes straight.

If that was the problem, then they could have just implemented a restriction on where you could drop a spawn - too close to another live spawn, too close to objective, etc.

 

[electroshockwave]

Please articulate why they were shit.

After they patched it so there was no longer any invincibility when spawning, they were completely balanced. Throw the SG in the middle of the objective...congrats your ass is going to get shotgunned as soon as you spawn. Throw the SG around the corner from the objective, defend it with turrets and teammates...congrats you tactically out maneuvered the enemy. The spawn camera was there so you could see exactly what you were spawning into. See people camping the spawn...DON'T SPAWN THERE.

Was there a bunch of morons playing Tactician throwing terrible SG? Yes, but you can't dumb your game down and expect it to be as enjoyable. They worked wonderfully after you got good at the game.

Spawn grenades definitely weren't completely balanced. They still had massive plumes of smoke that were visible from across the map to the enemy team, which made a map like Pyrrhus really hard to play tactician in. You weren't able to destroy them so there was nothing that you could do about a spawn grenade in front of you apart from camp them and even then they'd quickly be able to overwhelm you if a lot of the team start spawning at the one grenade. They should never have been able to placed in or around the home bases since it lead to spawn rape or dumb player dropping them just outside their own base. And you couldn't tell who placed which spawn grenade so there was no accountability and no way to tell who was and wasn't placing good or bad spawns.

But I think it would have certainly required less changes to make a deployable spawn system work great than to do the same for TSPs and I think it would also be more suitable for warzone than TSPs.

 

[Dizzy]

Is there anyway to make KZ2 control as easily as KZ3?

I got 100% on KZ3, want to go back and do more of the campaign on 2 but it's impossible on Elite because I just can't aim at the helghast.

What exactly does "high-precision" do?

 

[.GqueB.]

Is there anyway to make KZ2 control as easily as KZ3?

I got 100% on KZ3, want to go back and do more of the campaign on 2 but it's impossible on Elite because I just can't aim at the helghast.

What exactly does "high-precision" do?

HA! Good luck buddy boy.

 

[see5harp]

hey check out that space elevator.

 

[WrikaWrek]

This game looks amazing. I'm having a lot of fun, this game is much better paced and engaging than Killzone 2.

And the visuals, MAN. The snow level is crazy.

 

[JB1981]

This game looks amazing. I'm having a lot of fun, this game is much better paced and engaging than Killzone 2.

And the visuals, MAN. The snow level is crazy.

Highlight of the game in both design and visuals. I just wish they would have toned down the contrasty lighting, it's very harsh looking.

 

[RedRedSuit]

Highlight of the game in both design and visuals.

Agreed. There were areas before that level where I was actually leaning towards KZ2 having better visuals overall, but that all ended in the snow level.

What's more, the level design (other than the scripted jetpack stuff) reminded me of KZ2 in that level. Big battles, interesting and vertical geometry, fun tactical decisions, lots of ways to approach a situation. It was sad to me that most of the rest of the game was much less intense and tactical than KZ2.

 

[MustacheBandit_]

This game was fun while it lasted and proved that move controls can indeed be a great way to play FPS games and I hope it becomes a regular controller choice for us in future games. Unfortunately Killzone 3 it is too flawed to have any staying power for multiplayer and a lot of its flaws are not patchable but just design failures with maps, classes, and some game design choices. My copy is going on craigslist today.

 

[.GqueB.]

This game was fun while it lasted and proved that move controls can indeed be a great way to play FPS games and I hope it becomes a regular controller choice for us in future games. Unfortunately Killzone 3 it is too flawed to have any staying power for multiplayer and a lot of its flaws are not patchable but just design failures with maps, classes, and some game design choices. My copy is going on craigslist today.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I have done Veteran first and had around 30 deaths average on each level.

Now, I'm playing Elite, 3 levels until end, and I have cut that back to 5-13. Overall, enjoying my Elite playthrough.

 

[lunlunqq]

I've been thinking about the spawns too and I actually miss the spawn grenades in KZ2. As some have already pointed out, although flawed, the spawn grenades make KZ2 games much more dynamic and gave the tacticians a very important role that affects the flow of the game.

I think a spawn-on-tactician type of system may work. It's similar to the old spawn-on-squad-leader system in KZ2. However, the difference is it's an skill that requires activation just like the recon ability. Once activated, it lasts for a short period of time (say 30 secs) and other players can freely spawn on the tactician. Expiration of time or death of the tactician himself terminate the spawn effect and there a reasonable CD time before the tactician can use it again (say 60 secs). A max of 2 spawn abilities can be activated at any given time for a team. This way, clusterfucks are less likely to happen because if a tactician is in a hot area, he's probably killed pretty fast, preventing more players from spawning at this hot spot.

I think this system will make the tacticians more useful and the game more dynamic; at the same time, force the tacticians to be more careful about the timing and their positions when using this ability. Also, "bad" tacticians will affect the team less since their death will void their ability. Give the tactician 10 points for every successful friendly respawn for a job well done.

To further discourage people from using this ability randomly, they can even make the tactician flash their positions on enemy map from time to time (say every 10 sec, they show up on enemy radar for 2 sec) when they activate their spawn ability, unless they are covered by a nearby friendly marksman's scramble+/++ ability. This will not only discourage people from using the ability lightly (they will just make themselves easy targets), but also give the marksmen a more important role in finishing objectives. Now the marksmen are not very useful for their team and they tend to just sit back and camp. Currently in Chinese KZ3 communities, we call a marksman "crouching pussy" for a reason.

 

[rdrr gnr]

...Unfortunately Killzone 3 it is too flawed to have any staying power for multiplayer and a lot of its flaws are not patchable but just design failures with maps, classes, and some game design choices. My copy is going on craigslist today.

Couldn't have put it any more eloquently. I think I just played my last round a few hours ago. The 30 hrs I've put into the MP so far, is a far cry from the hundreds that I put into KZ2. I kept playing this mess thinking it would eventually click and all make sense, but it never did.

 

[YoungHav]

All the beta for this game did for me was go back to KZ2 and BFBC2.

 

[TheExecutive]

Man... some of my personal worst games so far tonight. Fellow gaffers can attest to that. Fix this shit guerrilla!

 

[mickcenary]

Man... some of my personal worst games so far tonight. Fellow gaffers can attest to that. Fix this shit guerrilla!

This is becoming a trend for me. I'm just sucking/getting lumped in with spaz teams/making stupid trigger-finger decisions of late. I love this game when I and my team obliterate, which makes me feel for the guys on the receiving end.

 

[highrider]

sorry to hear so many are unhappy with the multiplayer. i'm finding the singleplayer game very replayable. this is a superior experience to k2 in that regard. i just play team slayer in halo online. it's the only game that has held my attention as a multiplayer experience. from what i understand, guerilla warfare is pretty good but the objective stuff isn't as good as k2. meh, after i finish elite i'll find out i guess, but this game is a keeper in my book just for the singleplayer.

 

[itsnervedamage]

sorry to hear so many are unhappy with the multiplayer. i'm finding the singleplayer game very replayable. this is a superior experience to k2 in that regard. i just play team slayer in halo online. it's the only game that has held my attention as a multiplayer experience. from what i understand, guerilla warfare is pretty good but the objective stuff isn't as good as k2. meh, after i finish elite i'll find out i guess, but this game is a keeper in my book just for the singleplayer.

I'm finding it a ton of fun and I loved KZ2 also. The thing is the multi is sort of a completely different game than KZ2, and when a sequel is that big a departure where core mechanics are different I think it's pretty polarizing.

Also, I think KZ fans miss a fundamental tenet of KZ mulitplayer design - griefing other players is fun. To me, the KZ class design has always been about giving out the most annoying and frustrating abilities. My favorite that I can't do anymore is search out red smoke, turn my back to it, and throw green smoke. Hide in corner and watch.

I think this is what everyone complaining secretly misses.

 

[Cagen]

I'm finding it a ton of fun and I loved KZ2 also. The thing is the multi is sort of a completely different game than KZ2, and when a sequel is that big a departure where core mechanics are different I think it's pretty polarizing.

Also, I think KZ fans miss a fundamental tenet of KZ mulitplayer design - griefing other players is fun. To me, the KZ class design has always been about giving out the most annoying and frustrating abilities. My favorite that I can't do anymore is search out red smoke, turn my back to it, and throw green smoke. Hide in corner and watch.

I think this is what everyone complaining secretly misses.

Urgh.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I'm finding it a ton of fun and I loved KZ2 also. The thing is the multi is sort of a completely different game than KZ2, and when a sequel is that big a departure where core mechanics are different I think it's pretty polarizing.

Also, I think KZ fans miss a fundamental tenet of KZ mulitplayer design - griefing other players is fun. To me, the KZ class design has always been about giving out the most annoying and frustrating abilities. My favorite that I can't do anymore is search out red smoke, turn my back to it, and throw green smoke. Hide in corner and watch.

I think this is what everyone complaining secretly misses.

One of those guys, huh?

Anyway, I'm about 5 1/2 hours into the campaign in co-op and it's been fun. More memorable/fun than KZ2's campaign, but that might also be the co-op speaking. In any case, it's been a good ride so far. Has the savior patch still not been dropped yet? I needs my Medic range/cooldown boost.

 

[commish]

I think I am done from trying to complete objectives in public games. Last night I just got tired of seeing so many people running FROM the objective that it's near useless. Too many people only care about getting kills and points. I'm fairly certain that there are some people who have never picked up the speaker in search & retrieve unless it's in a 9 v 2 game.

Yes, congrats KDR man, you are the best spawn camper I have ever seen. No one can shoot people who are leaving their spawn quite like you.

 

[itsnervedamage]

Urgh.

One of those guys, huh?

Heh...Half joke I usually only did that with my clan and usually I yelled something like GUYS I DROPPED A GREAT SPAWN YOU WILL LOVE IT!

I do miss how you could methodically push the other team into a spawn trap with good tacts but I think the TSPs are aiming for the same effect but improving your chances of defending.

I don't think it's fair to judge the TSP placements in pub matches, cause when did a pub match really let us see the real effectiveness of anything in KZ2? In organized groups, I think the TSPs still allow for flow and fighting over key areas, but avoid the 2 spawns in a room grenade launchers and rockets mess.

Scouts still bug the hell out of me though, I can't figure out a good counter. Do bots detect them?

 

[alr1ght]

I think I am done from trying to complete objectives in public games. Last night I just got tired of seeing so many people running FROM the objective that it's near useless. Too many people only care about getting kills and points. I'm fairly certain that there are some people who have never picked up the speaker in search & retrieve unless it's in a 9 v 2 game.

Yes, congrats KDR man, you are the best spawn camper I have ever seen. No one can shoot people who are leaving their spawn quite like you.

join us. a few of us were playing last night.

 

[H_Prestige]

I think I am done from trying to complete objectives in public games. Last night I just got tired of seeing so many people running FROM the objective that it's near useless. Too many people only care about getting kills and points. I'm fairly certain that there are some people who have never picked up the speaker in search & retrieve unless it's in a 9 v 2 game.

Yes, congrats KDR man, you are the best spawn camper I have ever seen. No one can shoot people who are leaving their spawn quite like you.

Blame GG. They made it super easy to get kills and give a ton of points.

I play a bunch of public games in KZ2 and outside of some lone wolf snipers, everyone seems to be going for objectives. That's how the game got its "clusterfuck" reputation. Everyone gathers around the objectives.

 

[Cornbread78]

Blame GG. They made it super easy to get kills and give a ton of points.

I play a bunch of public games in KZ2 and outside of some lone wolf snipers, everyone seems to be going for objectives. That's how the game got its "clusterfuck" reputation. Everyone gathers around the objectives.

Oh, I miss that clusterfu(k so much too...

 

[Dibbz]

GAF I done made a video of my playing GW with Move. lol I suck at it so please don't complain also my camera was zoomed in too much so sorry about that. I just thought I show people what it's like to play with move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ4Whxj9e8

It's a bit long so I'll post some highlights in link form here.

Melee with Move

Death by invisible man

Death by awesome Move skills

Payback on Marksman

Stalking

 

[Meijimasha]

Is there anyway to make KZ2 control as easily as KZ3?

I got 100% on KZ3, want to go back and do more of the campaign on 2 but it's impossible on Elite because I just can't aim at the helghast.

What exactly does "high-precision" do?

Oh LOL, another twelve year old that thinks if it doesn't control exactly like an activision game it is somehow "wrong."

Grow up.

 

[StealthGoblin]

This thing still hasn't been patched yet? Damn.

*waits*

 

[mr_nothin]

This thing still hasn't been patched yet? Damn.

*waits*

This was seriously the ONLY reason I even bought the game. The beta left a really really really sour taste in my mouth and the retail game didnt do much to get rid of that taste. The "Savior Patch" got me all excited. Hell, I thought it was going to be a Day 1 patch. Now everything they listed in the patch isnt even going to be in 1 patch.

 

[alr1ght]

Savior patch is a long ways off.

 

[Meijimasha]

Sorry for the double post.

I wasn't having as much fun with Killzone 3 as I was with Killzone 2 until I figured out a fun strategy that really only works with clans.

In KZ2 classes were all independent and teamwork arose organically through people going after objectives (1 point per kill in objective game modes helped this quite a bit). Killzone 3 is different in that most of the abilities are proximity based.

Knowing that, it became apparent that playing KZ3 like I played KZ2 was just a stupid idea. I used to boost out of home based, sprint across the map, and drop a spawn in a far off location that was easily defendable and not easily camped. Trying to do the KZ3 equivalent, rush out and capture a TSA, is usually suicide, unless you bring a medic.

Traveling in groups of 3 seems to be the best way to be effective. Travelling as 1 tact, 1 medic and 1 sniper means you are basically invisible as long as you stay within 15 meters of each other. Doing this makes taking objectives and moving across the map really easy, but its hard to pull off in pub matches. My clan and I have been doing this since I suggested it and our win ration has just SHOT UP. Most matches now end 5-2 or 7-0 in our favor, even Clan server matches.

It just took me a while to understand the ROOT DIFFERENCES between this game and its predecessor. So while the organic nature, map design, and overall balance is probably weaker than its older brother, the possibility of coordinated teamwork and various strategies are much, much higher. I will continue to enjoy this game.

And before some retard says "hurr durr whooda thunk teamwerk maeks you win" shut up, you clearly didn't read the 3 paragraphs I just posted.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Savior patch is a long ways off.

Have they given us any idea of when it might come? TBH I'll not be surprised if it takes a while to get through certification. There is a fuck ton that needs fixing.

 

[msdstc]

Love the gameplay, but I conitnue to experience a range of problems that are really hurting this game for me.

1. Matchmaking- for multiple reasons. Getting thrown in the middle of games where I'm JUST about to lose is crap. Getting thrown into games in the middle in general destroys the balance of a game. Starting games off either grossly outnumbering the other team or vice versa.

2. Squads- Why does it split me up? I keep getting put on seperate teams from my squad members, can't stand this.

3. Points not registering- This has yet to happen to me, but in 3 different games last night my cousin would go whole rounds without registering a single kill or point... yet he lead the team! He had no idea if we were winning or losing.

4. Invisible walls. You can see a person far away, but turns out they're standing behind something that doesn't appear until you walk closer.

This is just a handful of the bugs I've been experiencing. On top of that I do experience the occasional lag, but it's not as bad as I thought from reading some of the complaints.

 

[alr1ght]

Have they given us any idea of when it might come? TBH I'll not be surprised if it takes a while to get through certification. There is a fuck ton that needs fixing.

1.04 should be this week. Savior patch, who knows.

 

[Meijimasha]

Have they given us any idea of when it might come? TBH I'll not be surprised if it takes a while to get through certification. There is a fuck ton that needs fixing.

Patch went into QA and testing the monday before last. So I would expect it no later than next friday.

Also, to everybody complaining about people not going after objectives:

Did you play Killzone 2 at launch? Or start a new account after you leveled up?

Because KZ2 was FILLED WITH IDIOTS after launch, and actually it was filled with idiots at ALL the lower levels. I remember playing 18 months after the game came out, I had been playing on my account and loved the game, with all players going after objectives. I started a new PSN to level up again and CAMPERS! CAMPERS EVERYWHERE! Its not that they were killing me or anything, but I would go onto Corrinth Crossing and I would find like 3 ISA waiting in the hallway with their guns trained on the door, waiting for one of us to run through, only to get killed when somebody would come in through the ceiling. All low-level matches were like that, and it sucked.

Right now I'm level 35 in KZ3 and I haven't seen a camping marksmen in dozens of hours of playtime. The players I'm fighting are leveled up and know what they're doing and each match is a ton more fun than it was last week. Just give the game a little time to evolve.

 

[Massa]

I wish the matchmaking process would settle for having 20 people in a Warzone room. Instead it always tries to keep rooms full, making it near impossible to join friends ("world is full"). And most of the time I do join my friends I'm put on the other team and it doesn't seem to fix it when the round is over.

 

[jorma]

GAF I done made a video of my playing GW with Move. lol I suck at it so please don't complain also my camera was zoomed in too much so sorry about that. I just thought I show people what it's like to play with move.

Love the last kill. Very persistent of you =)

 

[msdstc]

I wish the matchmaking process would settle for having 20 people in a Warzone room. Instead it always tries to keep rooms full, making it near impossible to join friends ("world is full"). And most of the time I do join my friends I'm put on the other team and it doesn't seem to fix it when the round is over.

See I don't even think there should be rooms. This kills balance of games as far as I'm concerned. The teams are constantly changing, people are just coming and going. Having the match set before it starts and keeping it that way is the best way to go.

 

[Cornbread78]

Savior patch is a long ways off.

What do you think the delay is? Arrogance?

Seriously, this game is killing the vibe for my clan mates, nobody really wants to dedicate a lot of time into it and they are going back to Bl. Ops., moving over to Homefront (may benefit the most from this current KZ3 failure) or will wait it out until Crysis 2 comes out in two weeks.

They knew there were issues prior to launch, knew the problems were still there at launch, yet, two weeks later, there still have done nothing to fix it. WTF.... it's gotta be ignorance at this point that holding them back....

 

[user friendly]

http://www.digitalbattle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/killzone-2-logo.jpg[/I

join us. a few of us were playing last night.[/QUOTE]
Yes, thanks for joining last night, don't think we would've won that. All it took was that epic spawn and it was over. Still reppin' GAFe :)

 

[Meijimasha]

What do you think the delay is? Arrogance?

ARe your parents siblings, perchance?

How long do you think QA and Testing of a patch takes? Give me your ballpark estimate so I can know exactly how ignorant you really are.

And you people think the post quality on these boards is higher than gamefaqs or 4chan...lol

 

[H_Prestige]

Someone is not going to last very long here...

 

[commish]

ARe your parents siblings, perchance?

How long do you think QA and Testing of a patch takes? Give me your ballpark estimate so I can know exactly how ignorant you really are.

And you people think the post quality on these boards is higher than gamefaqs or 4chan...lol

I would guess, 3 hours. No, wait, 10. Actually, 20, 20 hours should it. Yeah, 25, right. Actually, I'll take the whole box.

 

[Infinite Justice]

ARe your parents siblings, perchance?

How long do you think QA and Testing of a patch takes? Give me your ballpark estimate so I can know exactly how ignorant you really are.

And you people think the post quality on these boards is higher than gamefaqs or 4chan...lol

acting like a douche wont get you far here.

 

[patsu]

I've been thinking about the spawns too and I actually miss the spawn grenades in KZ2. As some have already pointed out, although flawed, the spawn grenades make KZ2 games much more dynamic and gave the tacticians a very important role that affects the flow of the game.

Yo lunlunqq, my speculation is that a lot of the KZ3 haters play(ed) Tacticians in KZ2. So they are affected/downgraded in KZ3 while the other classes got a substantial upgrade. They see the most negative differences other classes don't see. I usually play as Medic in KZ2 and 3.

So I think to address the complains, GG may need to think about some goodies for the Tacts without breaking the game. And then address the maps separately (Just bring the old ones back, and tune the new ones).

 

[Meijimasha]

acting like a douche wont get you far here.

Seems to work pretty well for you.

 

[commish]

Yo lunlunqq, my speculation is that a lot of the KZ3 haters play(ed) Tacticians in KZ2. So they are affected/downgraded in KZ3 while the other classes got a substantial upgrade. They see the most negative differences other classes don't see. I usually play as Medic in KZ2 and 3.

So I think to address the complains, GG may need to think about some goodies for the Tacts without breaking the game. And then address the maps separately (Just bring the old ones back, and tune the new ones).

Pretty sure the tactician class is not crying in their milk. They already have the best assault rifle in the game, is the only class that can capture the all-important TSPs, and get a scan that gives them a huge advantage on anyone within range.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

So! Online co-op patch? Never going to happen?

 

[10dollas]

Pretty sure the tactician class is not crying in their milk. They already have the best assault rifle in the game, is the only class that can capture the all-important TSPs, and get a scan that gives them a huge advantage on anyone within range.

+ rockets