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[DoomGyver]

There's a simpler way to fix TSPs.

1 Allow any class to neutralize a TSP. Note: only the Tactician can capture a TSP.
2 Remove spawn invincibility from TSPs, Base-camp spawns should be the only spawns with a period of invincibility. Reason being you chose to spawn at a TSP so that is the risk you're taking.
3 No TSP should require a jet-pack in order to gain access.

 

[patsu]

It's not really hard work. You just dont seem like you're affecting the
outcome of the game, most of the time. You're stuck to running from TSP
to TSP a lot of the time....especially in games with randoms. It just gets boring,
stale, and static. It needs to be more dynamic. It also always feels like an uphill battle because as soon as you take 1 TSP, the other is being captured.

How long does it take to recapture a TSP ?

 

[.GqueB.]

It's not clumbersome. You do realize that not all of those ideas would be implemented...a lot of them are either or. And you do realize that there are TONS of rules involved in just 1 mechanic right? That list would be pretty short compared to how many rules they'd have to actually code in. So you'd want any and everybody to be able to spawn on tacticians at any point? How is that too many rules? It's the problem that the spawn grenades had, they didnt have enough rules (ie: cant throw spawn grenade within this distance of objective and so on).

When did I say that? I specifically said "let one person spawn on him per life and the only pre-requisite would be that the Tact cant currently be in the middle of a battle. Halo reach did this very well. No one was at an advantage no one was at a disadvantage. It was perfect."

It would cut down on the cluttery crap and also provide the Tact with some help, but not too much help.

This so called "manageable action" is boring and it's basically like you're the infinite respawning enemies in a section of single player. Smarter? It has the potential to be "smarter" but it's implemented poorly. Did they not consider the respawn times for TSPs at all? I kill someone and run to neutralize, only to have the tact i just killed...respawn, run through my bullets with his invincibility, and melee me. It's stupid. I dont hate the TSP system, I just hate the fact that it's the only way to spawn. It needs to be complemented by some form of squad spawning or something.

Also, I've been saying KZ3's spawning system isnt as dynamic as KZ2 since the KZ3 beta. It's not a "new/cool" term to use for me.

Once I leveled up my tact I never ran into that problem. You combat that by downing him and not killing him. By the time he respawned, the point would be neutralized. And even if I were killed by an spawning player, the point is now up for grabs. I'll run and takes it.

I really dont see how its boring to be honest especially when you consider the fact that just about every other shooter imploys this system. You pretty much always spawn in predetermined places. How did you ever enjoy any other shooter if youre complaining about this now? Are you only entertained by the rare instance where a game has moveable spawn points? Thats essentially what you are saying.

Id be fine if you said "I only said that to prove a point shut the hell up GqueB". We could very easily leave it at that.

 

[DoomGyver]

How long does it take to recapture a TSP ?

I'm guessing 3 seconds to neutralize and 3 seconds to capture? Something near that. But if the opposing team is actively spawning at the TSP you're trying to neutralize.. have fun getting shot and killed by invincible players.

 

[patsu]

Will immuned players trigger proximity mine ?

Actually, may be immuned players should not be able to attack other players.

 

[ilikemonkeys]

Personally I think that if a Tactician is capturing a spawn. Spawning enemies don't have a spawn shield.

 

[mr_nothin]

When did I say that? I specifically said "let one person spawn on him per life and the only pre-requisite would be that the Tact cant currently be in the middle of a battle. Halo reach did this very well. No one was at an advantage no one was at a disadvantage. It was perfect."

It would cut down on the cluttery crap and also provide the Tact with some help, but not too much help.

Once I leveled up my tact I never ran into that problem. You combat that by downing him and not killing him. By the time he respawned, the point would be neutralized. And even if I were killed by an spawning player, the point is now up for grabs. I'll run and takes it.

I really dont see how its boring to be honest especially when you consider the fact that just about every other shooter imploys this system. You pretty much always spawn in predetermined places. How did you ever enjoy any other shooter if youre complaining about this now? Are you only entertained by the rare instance where a game has moveable spawn points? Thats essentially what you are saying.

Id be fine if you said "I only said that to prove a point shut the hell up GqueB". We could very easily leave it at that.

I said that 1st thing to be an ass

I had the Tact leveled up the minute I started playing KZ3. I've never once had to work my way up...I've been playing as a fully maxed out tact in retail KZ3 since I 1st started the multiplayer up.

About the respawning tact thing. It takes 3 seconds to respawn even if you down them. Lets say I meet a tact right outside the capturing radius for a TSP. I run to the TSP (that's 1 second)...and start capturing it (takes about 3 seconds I believe). He's going to have 1 second to respawn there. I'm not going to be able to capture the point before he's able to respawn. I usually dont have much of a problem with doing this but it's just really cheap. The way I go about it is...I kill the guy and then run closer to the TSP but not in the capture area. I then wait for his invincibility to wear off and run into the capture area and kill him, that way I've already started neutralizing or have the TSP neutralized while he's alive so he cant respawn there. But the thing about this is, is that we're not only dealing with tacts spawning there. We're dealing with a whole team (or even worse...2 tacts ) potentially spawning there.

What other objective-based shooters are setup the same way as the TSPs in KZ3? Most shooters have been allowing at least another way to respawn. Also, KZ3 is different in that you're not just playing 1 type of mode during a match. You're playing 7 different modes. I dont see how they expect static TSPs to work without having an alternative way to spawn. The games I can think of with static capture points and no other spawn systems are the earlier Battlefield games and that actually worked because the PC community is actually competent when it comes to team-based/objective gameplay.

Also, yes. I was really entertained by the fact that KZ3 actually let you throw down mobile spawn points and control where ppl go. It was kind of new and fresh and fit Warzone because the objectives always changed up.

Will immuned players trigger proximity mine ?

Actually, may be immuned players should not be able to attack other players.

It should be set up like how 1 of Battlefield Bad Company 2's latest patches has it.
You spawn with invincibility....BUT you only stay invincible if you stay still (only moving allowed is turning)
If you move, shoot, jump, aim down the sides then you're vulnerable.

 

[TTP]

I'm guessing 3 seconds to neutralize and 3 seconds to capture? Something near that. But if the opposing team is actively spawning at the TSP you're trying to neutralize.. have fun getting shot and killed by invincible players.

That's easy to fix. Just tell all your guys not to kill anyone until you captured the TSP (lol)

 

[pixelbox]

There's a simpler way to fix TSPs.

1 Allow any class to neutralize a TSP. Note: only the Tactician can capture a TSP.
2 Remove spawn invincibility from TSPs, Base-camp spawns should be the only spawns with a period of invincibility. Reason being you chose to spawn at a TSP so that is the risk you're taking.
3 No TSP should require a jet-pack in order to gain access.

I completely agree with 1 and 2. 3 gives purpose to the jet-packs. I would even take it a step forward with your ideas. Not only allow any teammates to neuralise, but have the spawn meter increase spawn times of enemies depending on how close the meter is to neutral. It should also take 2-3 time longer than a TACT to neutalise. I am for the most part a fan of the maps i KZ3. I think they give purpose to more classes now instead of KZ2's way which must people relied on the "set it and forget it" bots in sake of K/D and scoreboard. Here we have Wasps that dominate whichever field of view it was given and can be a serious problem if left unchecked. The only class that could safely take 'em out is the MRKSMN. Then you have the IFTR that could move from one place to another faster than any class with the ability to assume the looks of the enemy and defuse quicker than the rest. He is a frontlines class and his ablities begs for you to use him that way. Ironically, i believe those 2 classes are the most unballanced, lol. With those tweaks to the spawn system and tweaks to those 2 classes along with a DEV message screen(like the 1 in Warhawk and PS home), the game could stand on it's own.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

- Make the tactician a spawn point for everybody on your team.
- Limit the amount of ppl that can spawn on the tactician in a given time frame
(basically a cool down period after 4/5 ppl have spawned on you or something)
- An alternative is to do how BRINK does it and just allow waves of people to spawn on you.
- So a maximum of, lets say, 4 can spawn on you per 20 or 30 seconds and they all basically - have to queue up to spawn on you.
- You would HAVE to limit the amount of tacticians per team though. I'd say around 2 or 3 per team.

I think this would bring back the dynamics on the battlefield. I think it would feel more like
a push when the tactician's going for the TSPs because he has some buddies that can spawn
on him and help him move forward. He can also act as an active spawn point as to
direct the flow of battle.

IDK if I'm just way too biased or something but it sounds like the perfect mixture of
TSPs/Spawn Grenades/Squad Spawning while also getting rid of some of the problems that
each 1 had on "their own". There wouldnt be any spawn grenade raping because when the
tactician dies, so does the spawn point. It makes the battle for TSPs much more interesting
and strategic, instead of trying to lone wolf it (he can at least get ppl into the general area to
help kill the other team). The tacticians wouldnt just be stuck to going after TSPs the whole
game. They could also push forward to objectives. I think this would bring that whole
push/pull aspect of the tacticians in KZ2 back. It really made you feel like you were marking
your territory in KZ2, now it just feels like CTF. I will admit that I'm not exactly sure of the
potential problems that would result from this though.

Eh I don't think it even needs to be that complex . The mechanics of TSPs would be perfect if they were mobile (sans spawn invincibility). Warzone requires dynamic spawns with dynamic objectives. If they were to make a spawn grenade more a placable item like an engineer bot it would work. GG needed to add MORE spawn cameras, not remove them entirely and those points needed to flashing red on the minimap when enemies are nearby. Also the 90 second timer for spawn grenades should run down faster when enemies are near and be completely removed when an enemy tac is near for something like 10 secs.

In all it is really baffling why GG whent with a Civil War triage mentality of amputate to the MP rather than trying to improve the existing system.

 

[alr1ght]

In all it is really baffling why GG whent with a Civil War triage mentality of amputate to the MP rather than trying to improve the existing system.

see:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25990709&postcount=101

then:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25990931&postcount=102

to summarize this game

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

see:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25990709&postcount=101

then:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25990931&postcount=102

to summarize this game

Oh lawd! Not enough :lol :lol... Oh wait the smilies were Guerilla'd too.

 

[Rolf NB]

Is there any way to inspect my loadout options and skills and spend some points outside of a running match? I was unlocking a couple sidearms in the match startup last night, and when I was done and ready to spawn, the rest of FSTG had already taken all the TSPs on the map and proceeded to camp the enemy base.

 

[Lord Griegous]

Is there any way to inspect my loadout options and skills and spend some points outside of a running match? I was unlocking a couple sidearms in the match startup last night, and when I was done and ready to spawn, the rest of FSTG had already taken all the TSPs on the map and proceeded to camp the enemy base.

You can do it in the first screen of the multiplayer menu. You have a stats and a loadout option there.

 

[Rolf NB]

You can do it in the first screen of the multiplayer menu. You have a stats and a loadout option there.

Ok. Will look harder next time I boot it up. Thanks

 

[Massa]

Eh I don't think it even needs to be that complex . The mechanics of TSPs would be perfect if they were mobile (sans spawn invincibility). Warzone requires dynamic spawns with dynamic objectives. If they were to make a spawn grenade more a placable item like an engineer bot it would work. GG needed to add MORE spawn cameras, not remove them entirely and those points needed to flashing red on the minimap when enemies are nearby. Also the 90 second timer for spawn grenades should run down faster when enemies are near and be completely removed when an enemy tac is near for something like 10 secs.

In all it is really baffling why GG whent with a Civil War triage mentality of amputate to the MP rather than trying to improve the existing system.

Mobile spawns means clusterfucks. It's the biggest problem Killzone 2 had and I'm glad it's fixed in Killzone 3.

Having to walk for 10 seconds from a TSP to the objective doesn't ruin the dynamic of the game at all.

 

[jorma]

small "problem" - i can't actually unlock anything at all, because my 24 hours of everything unlocked is still running, despite me having played for a lot more than that. It's not the worst of problems i guess, but i actually enjoy unlocking stuff :x

anyone with a similar bug?

 

[Massa]

small "problem" - i can't actually unlock anything at all, because my 24 hours of everything unlocked is still running, despite me having played for a lot more than that. It's not the worst of problems i guess, but i actually enjoy unlocking stuff :x

anyone with a similar bug?

That's your punishment for using a cheat code.

Someone also mentioned this problem earlier in this thread.

 

[RoboPlato]

Does anyone else have a weird glitch where at the initial spawn in Guerrilla Warfare, you spawn in the enemy base? It happens to me almost every other game. It's kind of funny because of the sheer amount of bullets that I get hit with but it's also really annoying.

 

[Always-honest]

Does anyone else have a weird glitch where at the initial spawn in Guerrilla Warfare, you spawn in the enemy base? It happens to me almost every other game. It's kind of funny because of the sheer amount of bullets that I get hit with but it's also really annoying.

souds like a fun glitch though.

 

[RoboPlato]

souds like a fun glitch though.

Oh, it is. I'm just shocked at how regularly it happens.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Mobile spawns means clusterfucks. It's the biggest problem Killzone 2 had and I'm glad it's fixed in Killzone 3.

Having to walk for 10 seconds from a TSP to the objective doesn't ruin the dynamic of the game at all.

Maybe in your mind, but in reality dynamic spawns organized the flow the game. TSPs with the asthmatic stamina bar leads to the same stagnating flow. The are no more counter attacks by a well placed flank or full team assaults. What you get is sprint, recover, sprint, recover, sprint and then recover go cover what SHOULD be a ten second run. Plus I you are not and tac a TSP falls then you stuck navigating out of your spawn and fighting you stamina bar to get near the objective... if you even make it that far.

Operations is the ideal flow of Warzone, and in a way is the closest thing to what KZ2's dynamic Warzone was like. Now though KZ3 is based off of TDM, not objective gamplay. Maybe the new MP people saw all those Bodycount Radec rooms and said "hmmmm."

 

[jorma]

That's your punishment for using a cheat code.

Someone also mentioned this problem earlier in this thread.

Yeah i guess Well at least it makes it easier if i want to try out a new loadout on a whim.

 

[Massa]

Maybe in your mind, but in reality dynamic spawns organized the flow the game. TSPs with the asthmatic stamina bar leads to the same stagnating flow. The are no more counter attacks by a well placed flank or full team assaults. What you get is sprint, recover, sprint, recover, sprint and then recover go cover what SHOULD be a ten second run. Plus I you are not and tac a TSP falls then you stuck navigating out of your spawn and fighting you stamina bar to get near the objective... if you even make it that far.

Operations is the ideal flow of Warzone, and in a way is the closest thing to what KZ2's dynamic Warzone was like. Now though KZ3 is based off of TDM, not objective gamplay. Maybe the new MP people saw all those Bodycount Radec rooms and said "hmmmm."

Of course "in my mind", it's my opinion.

I'm sorry but I lost you when you said "full team of assaults", that's the kind of shit that drove me crazy in KZ2. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[TheExecutive]

There's a simpler way to fix TSPs.

1 Allow any class to neutralize a TSP. Note: only the Tactician can capture a TSP.
2 Remove spawn invincibility from TSPs, Base-camp spawns should be the only spawns with a period of invincibility. Reason being you chose to spawn at a TSP so that is the risk you're taking.
3 No TSP should require a jet-pack in order to gain access.

Yeah this may be a fairly easy way to at least attempt to fix TSP's. It would definitely be worth a shot.

 

[10dollas]

So i had this epiphany on how to articulate why Killzone 3 simply isn't fun for me. I had an inkling to play Kz3. I sat there justifying to myself on why I should follow through on this urge. Well I thought to myself what would be fun to do. Flanking the enemy and getting the jump on him though smart terrain movement is always entertaining, avoiding major enemy patrols and heading behind enemy lines to capture a forgotten TSP, and then using this TSP to pinch the enemy from two sides. I also wanted to level up my infiltrator to a usable level.

I then began thinking how I would execute these tactics on the various map choices. Mawlr Assyard is a congested map with little possibility of sneaking behind enemies--cross that out. Same with Phyrus Crater--another X. Snowdrift allows these possibilities, but I hate that map with a passion. Another X. Corinthcrossing has only 2 TSPs, and Exos are constantly on the patrol, Snipers and Wasps oversee the map with ease-->doable, but I'm not feeling it. That left me with only 3 maps where I could achieve my ideal playing experience without being knee deep in bullshit, Frozen Damn, Turbine, and Bilgarsk Boulevard. And Turbine isn't always a thrilling map to play on due to the above-head Tactical spawn issues. Not to mention I can only reasonably count on a handful of teammates to attempt to complete the objective, which makes warzone frustrating if you are objective based.

With only 2 ideal maps that suite my favorite playstyle of flanking, no wonder I begrudge playing killzone 3. I have to sit through handful of maps that are reliably garbage, and a few others that are typically unenjoyable just to actually enjoy myself fully on 2 or 3 maps.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Maybe in your mind, but in reality dynamic spawns organized the flow the game. TSPs with the asthmatic stamina bar leads to the same stagnating flow. The are no more counter attacks by a well placed flank or full team assaults. What you get is sprint, recover, sprint, recover, sprint and then recover go cover what SHOULD be a ten second run. Plus I you are not and tac a TSP falls then you stuck navigating out of your spawn and fighting you stamina bar to get near the objective... if you even make it that far.

Operations is the ideal flow of Warzone, and in a way is the closest thing to what KZ2's dynamic Warzone was like. Now though KZ3 is based off of TDM, not objective gamplay. Maybe the new MP people saw all those Bodycount Radec rooms and said "hmmmm."

Spawn grenades where complete and utter shit for KZ2. The only good dynamic spawning in KZ2 was squad spawning which should come back in some form. Spawn grenades, fuck that shit. Only dynamic thing spawn grenades do was create dynamic clusterfucks.

TSP is not a perfect system but it's one that could potentially be improved.

 

[V-Gief]

Of course "in my mind", it's my opinion.

I'm sorry but I lost you when you said "full team of assaults", that's the kind of shit that drove me crazy in KZ2. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

He didn't say "full team of assaults." He said "Full team assaults". Major difference.

 

[10dollas]

He didn't say "full team of assaults." He said "Full team assaults". Major difference.

It's funny how a "of" can make a gi-normous difference. It went in my mind from, uggghh rocket-boosting whores, to yay teamwork.

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

Spawn grenades where complete and utter shit for KZ2. The only good dynamic spawning in KZ2 was squad spawning which should come back in some form. Spawn grenades, fuck that shit. Only dynamic thing spawn grenades do was create dynamic clusterfucks.

TSP is not a perfect system but it's one that could potentially be improved.

All they had to do to improve Spawn Grenades was put zones around the current objective(s) that would disable them.

You throw one down right at the S&D target during the S&D match -- congratulations, you just wasted it! If it was already there before the round started it would simply turn off.

See how easy that is? The dynamic flow of the game is kept intact and objective-room clusterfucks no longer happen. Spawn Grenades were one of the best things about KZ2, they kept the game from being exactly the same every. damn. match. Teams had to adjust on-the-fly to enemy spawn placement; now, in KZ3, it's a perpetual game of Capture and Hold if you're a Tac.

 

[X-Frame]

TSP is not a perfect system but it's one that could potentially be improved.

The same could be said for spawn grenades, only spawn grenades if improved would be infinitely better for Warzone gameplay than TSPs.

 

[commish]

Mobile spawns means clusterfucks. It's the biggest problem Killzone 2 had and I'm glad it's fixed in Killzone 3.

Having to walk for 10 seconds from a TSP to the objective doesn't ruin the dynamic of the game at all.

Yes, AS IMPLEMENTED IN KZ2, spawn grenades were a clusterfuck. However, there were many ways that GG could have fixed the spawn grenade system instead of scrapping it completely. It's not an all or nothing proposition.

 

[JB1981]

Played with randoms last night and was top player. Tactician nets you a ton of points. The guys I played with were communicating and going for the Tact spawns. I actually had a lot of fun and got TONS of kills. I take back anything good I ever said about Turbine Concourse, though. Horrible map.

Frozen Dam is by far the best map in the game, which isn't saying much.

 

[Massa]

He didn't say "full team of assaults." He said "Full team assaults". Major difference.

Ah yes, my bad. Misread.

Yes, AS IMPLEMENTED IN KZ2, spawn grenades were a clusterfuck. However, there were many ways that GG could have fixed the spawn grenade system instead of scrapping it completely. It's not an all or nothing proposition.

I'm sure they looked at a bunch of alternatives before deciding on what they came up with.

I have to say my favorite map right now is Boulevard. The spawn system is far less influential than it was in KZ2 (and is in some other KZ3 maps) and the game still flows pretty damn well. That map with the KZ3 balancing is the best S&D in the series imo.

 

[Cyborg]

I dont own the game....but reading this the game needs a patch asap.

 

[commish]

The same could be said for spawn grenades, only spawn grenades if improved would be infinitely better for Warzone gameplay than TSPs.

See, to me, that was the beauty of KZ2's MP. Warzone is an amazing concept - rotating objectives - and the flowing nature of spawn grenades complemented that playstyle to perfection. Now, with fixed spawn points, it doesn't flow as well. There's just more bottlenecks.

 

[commish]

I'm sure they looked at a bunch of alternatives before deciding on what they came up with.

Considering how many dumb ideas this game has, and how many features were changed or removed, I am not so sure your statement is correct. Water under the bridge at this point, though.

 

[X-Frame]

I like my idea of a satellite phone given to Tacticians instead of spawn grenades.

Tacticians radio in to HQ while standing in a spot to request troop drops. If where he/she is standing is too close to the objective or too close to an enemy spawn the operator will say that the area is HOT and to find another location. Solves two key problems from KZ2 right there.

Whichever way the Tact is facing when calling for a spawn is where the teammates will face. If it's against the wall, the spawn auto-corrects.

2 drops active at any one time. Tacticians can disable the drop prematurely if desired.

/dream

 

[Cornbread78]

There's a simpler way to fix TSPs.

1 Allow any class to neutralize a TSP. Note: only the Tactician can capture a TSP.
2 Remove spawn invincibility from TSPs, Base-camp spawns should be the only spawns with a period of invincibility. Reason being you chose to spawn at a TSP so that is the risk you're taking.
3 No TSP should require a jet-pack in order to gain access.

'nuff said. total BS map... Only one I really , really hate in the game......

 

[Ezahn]

Actually playing as medic and engineer, having a lot of fun.
Still, I can see how KZ2 aficionados could be really upset.
And they need to fix REAL FAST che damn "one map loop".

 

[Cornbread78]

Actually playing as medic and engineer, having a lot of fun.
Still, I can see how KZ2 aficionados could be really upset.
And they need to fix REAL FAST che damn "one map loop".

and the network errors...
and the PS3 locking....
and the ^#$^%#^%$@#........


that about sums it up. I can't wait to finally get a patch at some point.... Hello?

 

[pixelbox]

Played with randoms last night and was top player. Tactician nets you a ton of points. The guys I played with were communicating and going for the Tact spawns. I actually had a lot of fun and got TONS of kills. I take back anything good I ever said about Turbine Concourse, though. Horrible map.

Frozen Dam is by far the best map in the game, which isn't saying much.

So are you saying you want no TSP at the 2 highest points of Turbine? If so that may work, but then where would they go? As I said before, TSP and some rebalancing of IFTR/MKSMN would make a hell of a difference.

 

[itsnervedamage]

I think the TSP work better if you have an organized team, and a group of 3 tacts pushing to cap the useful spawn for the objective. It isn't about holding all of them, just the one that helps you/prevents the other team from getting the objective.

Except Turbine, that map is about holding the one useful roof spawn. I think that's why it's the least fun, it's too hard to turn around in close matches.

What it really needs is a way to traverse from one high TSP to the other, either a bridge or enough jutting debris that you can jetpack boost from one to the other. I'd prefer no jetpack accessibility between high spawns though.

It's pretty hard to hold both high TSPs unless you're organized and they aren't, in which case they're screwed anyway. Right now only the exposed roof spawn is really useful for objectives, I think that's why they put the one under it in there to try to have a more accessible useful spawn (it sucks and is too easy to camp though...). They need some way to make that high one harder to hold to make matches more dynamic IMO.

Actually, if they adjusted jetpacks to be able to clear that gap that would make it perfects too. I mean, constant dogfights over the middle of the map. How awesome would that be?

 

[alr1ght]

Spawn grenades where complete and utter shit for KZ2. The only good dynamic spawning in KZ2 was squad spawning which should come back in some form. Spawn grenades, fuck that shit. Only dynamic thing spawn grenades do was create dynamic clusterfucks.

TSP is not a perfect system but it's one that could potentially be improved.

Please articulate why they were shit.

After they patched it so there was no longer any invincibility when spawning, they were completely balanced. Throw the SG in the middle of the objective...congrats your ass is going to get shotgunned as soon as you spawn. Throw the SG around the corner from the objective, defend it with turrets and teammates...congrats you tactically out maneuvered the enemy. The spawn camera was there so you could see exactly what you were spawning into. See people camping the spawn...DON'T SPAWN THERE.

Was there a bunch of morons playing Tactician throwing terrible SG? Yes, but you can't dumb your game down and expect it to be as enjoyable. They worked wonderfully after you got good at the game.

 

[.GqueB.]

I like my idea of a satellite phone given to Tacticians instead of spawn grenades.

Tacticians radio in to HQ while standing in a spot to request troop drops. If where he/she is standing is too close to the objective or too close to an enemy spawn the operator will say that the area is HOT and to find another location. Solves two key problems from KZ2 right there.

Whichever way the Tact is facing when calling for a spawn is where the teammates will face. If it's against the wall, the spawn auto-corrects.

2 drops active at any one time. Tacticians can disable the drop prematurely if desired.

/dream

Again, SOUNDS good but I think youre making the same mistake GG did in KZ2 where youre expecting too much from your players. You think people would actually turn OFF their spawn points? The mentality that ruined KZ2 was the whole "OH BOY IM RIGHT AROUND THE CORNED FROM THE OBJECTIVE HOW CAN WE LOSE!@!!@!@!!@!!@!!!!" way of thinking.

Not to mention the fights that would start:

"TURN OFF YOUR SPAWN YOU NOOB"
"WHO PUT THIS SPAWN DOWN TURN THIS SHIT OFF"
"TURN YOUR SPAWN OFF SO I CAN PUT MINE DOWN I HAVE THE PERFECT SPOT"
"FUCK YOU"
"NO FUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOU"

 

[H_Prestige]

Please articulate why they were shit.

After they patched it so there was no longer any invincibility when spawning, they were completely balanced. Throw the SG in the middle of the objective...congrats your ass is going to get shotgunned as soon as you spawn. Throw the SG around the corner from the objective, defend it with turrets and teammates...congrats you tactically out maneuvered the enemy. The spawn camera was there so you could see exactly what you were spawning into. See people camping the spawn...DON'T SPAWN THERE.

Was there a bunch of morons playing Tactician throwing terrible SG? Yes, but you can't dumb your game down and expect it to be as enjoyable. They worked wonderfully after you got good at the game.

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[-viper-]

Here is what I want:

Remove all mechs and power weapons
Reduce player count to 16 players
Port all KZ2 maps in KZ3 seeing as the other maps are garbage.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Please articulate why they were shit.

After they patched it so there was no longer any invincibility when spawning, they were completely balanced. Throw the SG in the middle of the objective...congrats your ass is going to get shotgunned as soon as you spawn. Throw the SG around the corner from the objective, defend it with turrets and teammates...congrats you tactically out maneuvered the enemy. The spawn camera was there so you could see exactly what you were spawning into. See people camping the spawn...DON'T SPAWN THERE.

Was there a bunch of morons playing Tactician throwing terrible SG? Yes, but you can't dumb your game down and expect it to be as enjoyable. They worked wonderfully after you got good at the game.

That is the problem, majority of players used them stupidly. Lot of concepts work good in an organized team structure, but play outside of a clan game and spawn grenades were utter shit. GG could have improved them, but they didn't really listen to the many good ideas players had. The grenades are gone and not coming back, some people need to move on. Squad spawn was/is something that worked out better and should come back in some form.

Do they have to be dumbed down? When majority of the playerbase can't use them right, then yes it does have to be dumbed down. The ones who were using them right sadly fell into the minority category. TSPs right now are simpler in implementation for the community but do need tweaking as well, but really are we going to be bitching about the removal of spawn grenades months from now still when they are gone and not coming back?

Pages and pages of the same exact whining over and over again about things gone and not coming back is not going to help things.

 

[MomoPufflet]

Move calibration is really getting on my nerves and I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Sometimes it works, sometimes I get tons of drift (even after controller reset). Does the positioning of the camera make a difference as long as it's seeing the move at all times (I am careful to watch for the red light). I'm not pointing the controller at the screen, just sitting normally as the iWaggle3D vids suggested.

 

[.GqueB.]

All they had to do to improve Spawn Grenades was put zones around the current objective(s) that would disable them.

You throw one down right at the S&D target during the S&D match -- congratulations, you just wasted it! If it was already there before the round started it would simply turn off.

See how easy that is? The dynamic flow of the game is kept intact and objective-room clusterfucks no longer happen. Spawn Grenades were one of the best things about KZ2, they kept the game from being exactly the same every. damn. match. Teams had to adjust on-the-fly to enemy spawn placement; now, in KZ3, it's a perpetual game of Capture and Hold if you're a Tac.

That wouldnt fix a thing. Clustergfucks were not exclusively caused by people who dynamically threw down spawn Grenades right on top of the objective. Ive seen dynamic Clusterfucks occur even when they were tossed a bit further away from the objective as well.

The problem was dynamic volume. No matter what, when spawn grenades werent dynamically throw ON the objective they were certainly thrown somewhere dynamically close so either way you have both teams spawning in the same area over and over again. Too many people in one dynamic area at one time. It dynamically happened pretty much everytime. It was dynamically a damn near guarantee. The TSP's aid in dynamically breaking up the action a bit. Spreading things out so 16 people arent spawning within a couple of dynamic meters within eachother for five dynamic minutes straight.