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[smik]

lets me get this off my chest

WHO THE FUCK CAME UP WITH THE IDEA THE INFILTRATOR CLASS!

they can always get the jump on you, fring off on teammates when your not sure gives up location and gets annoying. Infiltrators are very undectable because by the time you look on your radar... boom their there and you keep second guessing everything.

they have such an advantage its not even funny.

they look like you, they have GT's like you, they don't come up under the radar,they are hardly noticeable and just completely breaks flow of the game.

even though im going a solid 25+&-8 in GW its just not the point, dont even get me started on how this game ultilizes its spawns system...omg, if your going against a team of tactician's too prepared to be playing in your spawn for the rest of the map.

im sorry, i would rather IW's spawn system to utilize 100% of the map (not trolling) FIX THIS SHIT

ok, i feel better now

 

[mickcenary]

Oh, god. I just played Black Ops on my 360.

Wow.

How did I ever enjoy this? If there's one thing GG have completely nailed the FUCK out of, it is the weighty awesomeness of their gun play, both in feel and aesthetic. Blops controls like a game that was designed 20 years ago after having played Killzone 2/3.

Even in light of all your recent transgressions/silliness, I must thank you, GG; I must thank you for differentiating yourselves and making the player character actually feel physically present on the battlefield, rather than just a picture of a gun taped to the front of a first-person sliding camera.

Long live the weighty FPS.

Also, holy fuck @ the 360 controller. I used to prefer it over the DS3 for shooters, but after having become just as competent with the Move these last couple of months, it feels nothing short of retarded and I never want to touch it again. Again, KZ3 has spoilt us in this regard. Massively.

So, long live the Move-enabled FPS, too (as long as it's handled with similar finesse, of course).

 

[mickcenary]

lets me get this off my chest

WHO THE FUCK CAME UP WITH THE IDEA THE INFILTRATOR CLASS!

I don't want to sound like a wang, but... Get better. So many times have I gotten the jump on an INF. In my 26 hours of play, I have maybe been genuinely fooled by the disguise 10 times. I simply do not understand the whinging in relation to this.

I'd much prefer it if you bitched and moaned about the TAC having the most powerful gun in the game and a reusable and real-time UAV. THIS is a bit of a joke, but that's why I use it half the time .

 

[Always-honest]

So, long live the Move-enabled FPS, too (as long as it's handled with similar finesse, of course).

have to agree. Finally we can get rid of this awefull controller to play shooters.

 

[mr_nothin]

That's awefulll. Maybe next time they can find a way to control the game with a wet towel and all movement mirrored.
Nice learning curve.

It took me months to get used to COD MW/BLOPS controls. I fought the auto-aim for sooo long in that game. I had to learn to let go. I hate the controls in COD with a passion.

 

[X-Frame]

I don't want to sound like a wang, but... Get better. So many times have I gotten the jump on an INF. In my 26 hours of play, I have maybe been genuinely fooled by the disguise 10 times. I simply do not understand the whinging in relation to this.

I'd much prefer it if you bitched and moaned about the TAC having the most powerful gun in the game and a reusable and real-time UAV. THIS is a bit of a joke, but that's why I use it half the time .

The Infiltrator class was unnecessarily upgraded for KZ3 when in KZ2 it was fine. Here you there's no way to determine if they're friendly or not beyond 15m if they have fully upgraded their disguises. There's no 'tell' anymore - at all.

KZ2 the class didn't have any of the uniform lights so you could distinguish if you knew what to look for. So while their disguise wasn't perfect, skilled Saboteurs actually had to work to use their disguise to blend in. Those 1-2 seconds of spotting one and thinking to yourself, "Wait, is that a ..." was enough time for a skilled Saboteur to strike you down.

Now with all the enhancements from increased speed and stamina, endless disguised melee kills, and the ability to remain 100% like a teammate when cross-hairs are placed on you beyon 15m means much less skill is involved to be good at the class. Just run straight at people and you'll get easy kills.

 

[-viper-]

I don't want to sound like a wang, but... Get better. So many times have I gotten the jump on an INF. In my 26 hours of play, I have maybe been genuinely fooled by the disguise 10 times. I simply do not understand the whinging in relation to this.

I'd much prefer it if you bitched and moaned about the TAC having the most powerful gun in the game and a reusable and real-time UAV. THIS is a bit of a joke, but that's why I use it half the time .

Infiltrator class is so easy to spot. They always run towards you. keep that in mind.

 

[10dollas]

The Infiltrator class was unnecessarily upgraded for KZ3 when in KZ2 it was fine. Here you there's no way to determine if they're friendly or not beyond 15m if they have fully upgraded their disguises. There's no 'tell' anymore - at all.

KZ2 the class didn't have any of the uniform lights so you could distinguish if you knew what to look for. So while their disguise wasn't perfect, skilled Saboteurs actually had to work to use their disguise to blend in. Those 1-2 seconds of spotting one and thinking to yourself, "Wait, is that a ..." was enough time for a skilled Saboteur to strike you down.

Now with all the enhancements from increased speed and stamina, endless disguised melee kills, and the ability to remain 100% like a teammate when cross-hairs are placed on you beyon 15m means much less skill is involved to be good at the class. Just run straight at people and you'll get easy kills.

I wouldn't say it was fine in Kz2. The disguise was quite useless once the shock factor of, "wtf a teammate killed me? hackz" wore off. The disguise fooled no one. The most distinguishable features of a character are the lights and the saboteurs lacked them. It didn't require considerable thought to think, no lights, shoot it, rather it was an instant reaction. Not to mention, they always disguised as the basic soldier class, which hardly anyone used...

People picked saboteur only for their guns, specifically the godly STA-14

 

[CozMick]

Why are GG so damn hush hush about this next patch?

If I were them i'd be advertising the fact they are fixing it.

Not everyone browses forums, they're gonna think the game is fucked, not changing maps n shit.

 

[jorma]

Infiltrator class is so easy to spot. They always run towards you. keep that in mind.

not the good ones, they just kill you cowardly from behind as you try to line up the shot to take out that fool enginer on the other side of the map.

 

[Acrylic7]

I wouldn't say it was fine in Kz2. The disguise was quite useless once the shock factor of, "wtf a teammate killed me? hackz" wore off. The disguise fooled no one. The most distinguishable features of a character are the lights and the saboteurs lacked them. It didn't require considerable thought to think, no lights, shoot it, rather it was an instant reaction. Not to mention, they always disguised as the basic soldier class, which hardly anyone used...

People picked saboteur only for their guns, specifically the godly STA-14

It was fine in KZ2. Like he said.
Even when a skilled player is moving fast and trying to get something done, he can be fooled by the disguise.
Sure you can See a Saboteur a mile away, but sometimes they know where and when to blend in.

 

[mickcenary]

The Infiltrator class was unnecessarily upgraded for KZ3 when in KZ2 it was fine. Here you there's no way to determine if they're friendly or not beyond 15m if they have fully upgraded their disguises. There's no 'tell' anymore - at all.

KZ2 the class didn't have any of the uniform lights so you could distinguish if you knew what to look for. So while their disguise wasn't perfect, skilled Saboteurs actually had to work to use their disguise to blend in. Those 1-2 seconds of spotting one and thinking to yourself, "Wait, is that a ..." was enough time for a skilled Saboteur to strike you down.

Now with all the enhancements from increased speed and stamina, endless disguised melee kills, and the ability to remain 100% like a teammate when cross-hairs are placed on you beyon 15m means much less skill is involved to be good at the class. Just run straight at people and you'll get easy kills.

It's more of a passive ability, though, unlike the TAC's Recon ability, etc, which is far more active and far more useful in racking up kills and whatnot. With experience, INFs do become insanely easy to spot; there's also no harm in firing off a quick burst if you have even just the slightest inkling that the player is an INF.

Moreover, let's not forgot that most INFs tend to run around obnoxiously, thinking that they're actually invisible as opposed to merely disguised.

Against a skilled opponent who knows the maps, knows where his enemy will be coming from and is familiar with the general behaviour of his opponent - all ascertained through experience and experience alone - an INF is basically a naked class that can run a marathon = nothing really to complain about, in my opinion.

 

[X-Frame]

I wouldn't say it was fine in Kz2. The disguise was quite useless once the shock factor of, "wtf a teammate killed me? hackz" wore off. The disguise fooled no one. The most distinguishable features of a character are the lights and the saboteurs lacked them. It didn't require considerable thought to think, no lights, shoot it, rather it was an instant reaction. Not to mention, they always disguised as the basic soldier class, which hardly anyone used...

People picked saboteur only for their guns, specifically the godly STA-14

It was useless to the players that didn't know how to play the class.

Using the Sabotuer class was all about your behavior, looking non-threatening in the face of enemies and maneuvering throughout the map to blend in with enemies - all things that are generally unnecessary now with the Infiltrator.

However, take a player who was good as a Saboteur and fooled people all the time and put him into the Infiltrator class and you have a true beast. The only limiting factor now is the poor maps, making flanking and planning attacks more difficult.

You can run straight at enemies now who won't know what you are until you're close, but that impossible in KZ2. So I guess not many people were good at the class which made GG beef it up a bit.

 

[patsu]

If he's attacking from behind and some blind spots, he doesn't need the disguise. Infiltrator's disguise are meant to help him/her maintain the illusion in open space under broad day light. The Infiltrators in KZ2 are largely useless.

Play as Infiltrators in KZ3 to find out ! It's not as easy as you think. You can tell the novices are easier to fool (They don't know the maps too and may be distracted). But it's not so easy to trick experienced players.

 

[10dollas]

It was fine in KZ2. Like he said.
Even when a skilled player is moving fast and trying to get something done, he can be fooled by the disguise.
Sure you can See a Saboteur a mile away, but sometimes they know where and when to blend in.

Maybe good players were occasionally fooled by the disguise. It sure wasn't often. It rarely and mostly never fooled me. I mean, it's pretty recognizable; the same switch that flips in the brain telling you a person wearing different clothing is an enemy is going to flip when someone not wearing brightly colored lights pops around the corner.

I don't see how that's fine. And I don't see how the situation your using where the disguise succeeded most often is indicative on the fine nature the KZ2 version of the saboteur disguise. Well shit, I've let blatant enemies, undisguised, sneak past me and surprise me in the same distracted situations. What exactly does that say about the disguise itself, if thats the only situation it consistently succeeds in (at least for me)?

It was useless to the players that didn't know how to play the class.

Using the Sabotuer class was all about your behavior, looking non-threatening in the face of enemies and maneuvering throughout the map to blend in with enemies - all things that are generally unnecessary now with the Infiltrator.

However, take a player who was good as a Saboteur and fooled people all the time and put him into the Infiltrator class and you have a true beast. The only limiting factor now is the poor maps, making flanking and planning attacks more difficult.

You can run straight at enemies now who won't know what you are until you're close, but that impossible in KZ2. So I guess not many people were good at the class which made GG beef it up a bit.

That's more or less wrong. No matter how you conducted yourself as a saboteur, you always had that one indicator, visible and obvious from anywhere on the map , that revealed your dastardly nature--no lights...

Perhaps instead, GG beefed up the class due to the fact the disguise settled in as useless once people became knowledgeable about the ins and outs of the game.

 

[patsu]

Infiltrators can't blend in in KZ2 because you can spot one easily. If he has to hide and sneak around, Marksmans/snipers work better.

 

[Acrylic7]

Maybe good players were occasionally fooled by the disguise. It sure wasn't often. It rarely and mostly never fooled me. I mean, it's pretty recognizable; the same switch that flips in the brain telling you a person wearing different clothing is an enemy is going to switch when someone not wearing brightly colored lights pops around the corner.

I don't see how that's fine. And I don't see how the situation your using where the disguise succeeded most often is indicative on the fine nature the KZ2 version of the saboteur disguise. Well shit, I've let blatant enemies, undisguised, sneak past me and surprise me in the same distracted situations. What exactly does that say about the disguise itself, if thats the only situation it consistently succeeds in (at least for me)?

Ok, I'm not trying to say that its perfect, but definitely better than Kz3. He wasn't running twice as fast as everyone with infinite sprint and a 1 hit kill melee. The Class was made to bypass enemy grounds and get small jobs done. He had a long rang weapon to pick off a player that needed to be killed (assassination target for example) which is why his disguise vanishes after a kill; your job has been done, a short range weapon for people who got to close, and c4 for killing those around their own territory or stopping someone from getting into their territory.
In Kz2 is just a killing machine with an obvious overpowered advantage. Basically He is Master Chief with an Energy Sword. with 4 lungs.

 

[patsu]

Disguise will wear off after a gun kill in KZ3 Infiltrator also.

Infiltrator's melee is more powerful but medics and other classes can usually kill with one hit melee too.

Sprint speed is best, but they can't aim properly when running. It's meant for getting away and SnR missions.

 

[smik]

I don't want to sound like a wang, but... Get better.

um... did you read the post?

Infiltrator class is detrimental to the flow of the game and its easily the most abused class's (along with Tacticians) due to their imbalances,
Im always ontop of the charts at the end of the match while helping my team (medic) 2.5 KDR so saying "Get better" doesn't cut it.

i didnt say i can "never" kill them but pointing them out during a fire-fight isnt practical because friendly's do run back to,
its just difficult to recognized them in the heat of the battle. the character designs doesn't help either because they are nearly identical in color palettes
(except for the blue/red lights)

junior members,

Caught you on your stealth troll to (PS3/360 & BLOPS/KZ3) come on dude, your not hidden.

 

[patsu]

If you're in the heat of a battle, do you have time to look at radar ? I usually fire at anything that moves.

 

[smik]

If you're in the heat of a battle, do you have time to look at radar ? I usually fire at anything that moves.

that pretty much sums it up for countering Infiltrators lol,

idk, they may need to patch in a skill that scrambles it or something idk, something more practical then whats current.

 

[10dollas]

Ok, I'm not trying to say that its perfect, but definitely better than Kz3. He wasn't running twice as fast as everyone with infinite sprint and a 1 hit kill melee. The Class was made to bypass enemy grounds and get small jobs done. He had a long rang weapon to pick off a player that needed to be killed (assassination target for example) which is why his disguise vanishes after a kill; your job has been done, a short range weapon for people who got to close, and c4 for killing those around their own territory or stopping someone from getting into their territory.
In Kz2 is just a killing machine with an obvious overpowered advantage. Basically He is Master Chief with an Energy Sword. with 4 lungs.

Better? I'm not really sure about that myself. The KZ2 disguise, in my opinion, is underpowered. The KZ3 disguise, might be overpowered, but only due to complimentary factors, if it is in fact overpowered (I'm leaning towards no though). So, they are equally wrong in my eyes, just wrong for opposite reasons. The 1 hit easy-kill-button melee is not a problem that lies solely with the infiltrator. It is though a problem that is exasperated with its speed. A player is rewarded for charging someone, who is just laying into them with bullets. However, for all the people complaining about 'some random infiltrator culprit approaching me in plain view, with plenty of time to shoot, and thus subsequently getting face-stabbed by the impostor,' they just don't have a legitimate complaint. There are plenty of tools at their disposal for recognizing an infiltrator before he knifes them.

If there was any single problem though, that I had to put the limelight over, it would be the fact that the INF receives such an awesome firearm, the silenced STA52. This gun will drop a person, at range quicker than the person can react to the the infiltrators disguise. Whether this is a true problem or not, I'm not sure. I'll need to play more. I don't like callin things imbalanced until I've explored the situation thoroughly.

 

[patsu]

They (and other advanced capabilities) are meant to disrupt an organized team. Be mentally prepared. I find that I fall for it more when I'm not paying attention, like when we are leading and playing together well. It's not as bad as I imagined initially.

 

[Ken Masters]

not trolling as I do plan on picking this game up when I see it for $40, why do people say this game is broken?

 

[patsu]

not trolling as I do plan on picking this game up when I see it for $40, why do people say this game is broken?

There is a net code bug that prevents some/many from joining the game. People feel that maps are not as good as KZ2's. Plus they need to adjust to different overpowered capabilities, and don't see the purpose of Exo, jetpack.

 

[user8503492]

I dont see the problem with the Inf. class.
But to be honest..its my favorite class and maye using it so much has made me smart enough to know what to look for.
The people who I whacked the most as an infiltrator is the people who do the classic CoD action of spawning and slamming down on the sprint button oblivious to shit around them.

I hardly ever get ganked by one, maybe 3-5 times a match tops....now the marksman, that son of a bitch gets me at every angle, usually theres a few that sit a few feet from spawns/objectives cloaked insta killing people with a machine pistol.

Compared to games like CoD where a guy can run 100mph and slice-slice-slice 3 guys in a spilt second I hardly see a problem with a class that 9 out of 10 times has to use a melee attack which takes 3 seconds to kill. Maybe its just me but I hardly ever get the insta gun swing melee kill, its always the long drawn out brutal that alerts the enemy team.
Only times the melee kill that doesnt break disguise works for more then 1or 2 kills is when the enemy is alone or with a bunch of clueless idiots. This is why if your rolling solo you need to watch your back.

Also, anyone else have constant melee issues? I mean I land alot of melee kills but quite a few "miss"

All in all tho, Im kinda over KZ3 to be honest, its charm wore off very quickly.
Some of the worse map designs and so many bugs, the MP is very very mediocre.
Pretty sad about it cause I had hoped they took the near perfect MP of KZ2 and made it better, instead they made KZ3 a bigger mess then KZ2 ever was.

 

[Meijimasha]

not trolling as I do plan on picking this game up when I see it for $40, why do people say this game is broken?

Because they don't udnerstand it.

I have been playing this same game since launch and I can say with conviction that nothing is broken to the point of universal contention. Usually when people think a class is broken its because they don't understand the counter yet.

 

[10dollas]

Because they don't udnerstand it.

I have been playing this same game since launch and I can say with conviction that nothing is broken to the point of universal contention. Usually when people think a class is broken its because they don't understand the counter yet.

Okay here is a challenge.

What is your counter to killing a marksman cloaked at random location in a room, equipped with a silenced machine gun and c4 +an STA52 as a backup oh shit weapon? And every time he kills you, he switches location, but never to an obvious location within the same room. (this is my favorite tactic as a marksman, it nets me an incredible amount of easy kills)

 

[user8503492]

Because they don't udnerstand it.

I have been playing this same game since launch and I can say with conviction that nothing is broken to the point of universal contention. Usually when people think a class is broken its because they don't understand the counter yet.

Okay here is a challenge.

What is your counter to killing a marksman cloaked at random location in a room, equipped with a silenced machine gun and c4 +an STA52 as a backup oh shit weapon? And every time he kills you, he switches location, but never to an obvious location within the same room. (this is my favorite tactic as a marksman, it nets me an incredible amount of easy kills)

^^This, do tell

Marksman is sooooooooooo unbalanced its hilarious.

 

[patsu]

I like KZ3 MP more than KZ2. Loved KZ2 in the first week when everyone was "weak". Also like Southern Beach and Salamun Market. In KZ3, I actually like the overpowered capabilities because they keep the fight dynamic. Even when I played against a team of Tacts spamming rocket launchers, our team still won 4-3. It's not only about the capability and weapon power. It's the mindset. They thought they could lockdown the battlefield and got careless.

 

[patsu]

Okay here is a challenge.

What is your counter to killing a marksman cloaked at random location in a room, equipped with a silenced machine gun and c4 +an STA52 as a backup oh shit weapon? And every time he kills you, he switches location, but never to an obvious location within the same room. (this is my favorite tactic as a marksman, it nets me an incredible amount of easy kills)

Do you change the tide of battle if you play that way ? ^_^

I'd destroy the ammo crates and use C4 instead of frag grenades. But generally still focus on the objectives unless he's in the objective room.

 

[CozMick]

Doesn't Spot and Mark reveal the location of a cloaked Marksman?

 

[StealthGoblin]

Doesn't Spot and Mark reveal the location of a cloaked Marksman?

Not if he's using scramble+.

 

[10dollas]

Do you change the tide of battle if you play that way ? ^_^

I'd destroy the ammo crates and use C4 instead of frag grenades. But generally still focus on the objectives unless he's in the objective room.

Well hehe, it depends. I only switch to marksman as a big Fuck you when I get tired of waring against tacticians with their omniscient ways. But using the marksman to deny a high traffic room to the enemy, or to deny a flanking room helps my teammates stricken with tunnel vision . Plus often I'll camp and secure an important room and then push ahead instead of remaining in that room for the whole match.

But lets assume ignoring the marksman and avoiding his camped out tent is not an option for arbitrary reasons.

 

[Meijimasha]

If a marksmen is between 15 and 30 meters away from you they will be revealed by spot and mark if you can see them when the scan hits.

But the counter?

That depends, are you one of the crappy players that thinks GW = KZ3? Well then there isn't much of a counter for that one mode, because that mode is perfect for the Marksmen.

All other modes though?

Hard to sniper when the entire team is trying to plant explosives inside a building, and then if the marksmen decides to help out in the objective, they can't sit still, even in a corner because crosshairs still turn red when you put them over a sniper from within 25 meters or so.

Marksmen can't plant faster, can defuse faster, can't capture TSAs, can't revive people, can't place turrets, can't fix anything, can't even restock themselves with ammo.

The marksmen's counter is that its ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON OTHER CLASSES TO BE EFFECTIVE. Marksmen have no secondary points stream. They can't use an airbot to garner assists and lay down cover fire, they can't put a turret down to defend and objective when they're not there.

Frankly invisibility isn't that useful when you're going for objectives.

But were you talking about Guerilla Warfare? In that case LOL GTFO

 

[patsu]

If it's an important room to secure, I usually wait for a teammate and check the room with him behind me. Basically sweep the room with bullets (sometimes melee) and let my Triage bot discover the Marksman. Even if I get shot, the teammate or the bot can usually take down a wounded Marksman. Then I revive if he hasn't bled me out.

If he's hard to get to because of teammates and terrain advantage, then I respawn as a Marksman to remove him. His cloaking should disappear once he mortally wounded an enemy. He's the most vulnerable at that time.

There was a smart Marksman who hid in our base until Assassination. When the target tried to head back to the room beside our base for protection, the Marksman sniped him. I was the only escort but it was too late T_T.

 

[StealthGoblin]

If a marksmen is between 15 and 30 meters away from you they will be revealed by spot and mark if you can see them when the scan hits.

But the counter?

That depends, are you one of the crappy players that thinks GW = KZ3? Well then there isn't much of a counter for that one mode, because that mode is perfect for the Marksmen.

All other modes though?

Hard to sniper when the entire team is trying to plant explosives inside a building, and then if the marksmen decides to help out in the objective, they can't sit still, even in a corner because crosshairs still turn red when you put them over a sniper from within 25 meters or so.

Marksmen can't plant faster, can defuse faster, can't capture TSAs, can't revive people, can't place turrets, can't fix anything, can't even restock themselves with ammo.

The marksmen's counter is that its ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON OTHER CLASSES TO BE EFFECTIVE. Marksmen have no secondary points stream. They can't use an airbot to garner assists and lay down cover fire, they can't put a turret down to defend and objective when they're not there.

Frankly invisibility isn't that useful when you're going for objectives.

But were you talking about Guerilla Warfare? In that case LOL GTFO

A marksman doesn't need to go for objectives to be incredibly useful. They can place themselves strategically with a view that leads up to the enemy objective or at enemy bottlenecks to put the fear of good into people. I know I think twice about going a certain way if I see people getting mowed down ahead of me.

A good marksman can lockdown entire areas of the map. Its entirely true that the Marksman is probably the least effective at attacking objectives, but they are ruddy useful for defending them.

Personally, I'm an engineer. Any other engineers out there? In my last six Operations games I've scored 6000+ and have been completing objectives while not dying very much. I've got my tactics locked down for:

ISA MAWLR
Helghast MAWLR
Helghast Frozen Dam
ISA Akmir Snowdrift
Helghast Akmir Snowdrift

The only one I need to work out an effective objective-->points plan is ISA Frozen Dam. I find it hard to get stuck into that one.

 

[10dollas]

If it's an important room to secure, I usually wait for a teammate and check the room with him behind me. Basically sweep the room with bullets (sometimes melee) and let my Triage bot discover the Marksman. Even if I get shot, the teammate or the bot can usually take down a wounded Marksman. Then I revive if he hasn't bled me out.

You don't have time for that. As soon as you enter the room the marksman knows you are there, unless some how you managed to get lucky and go through his teammates and enter the back door (from the marksman's perspective). You are already gunned down before you start trying to search out the marksman. He's either camping the entrance, or he sniping out another window/door way and has c4 covering the other entrance. The simple detonation of the c4 reveals intruders, even if it wasn't a c4 kill. But the most deadly marksman is one that doesn't even bother with the sniper most of time and thus won't be distracted.

BTW the the cloaked marksman can be spotted by placing ur cursor over him. It turns red just like the INF, but at any range.

Edit: In addition, handling 2 people is an easy feat for a camping marksman. 3 people is even doable. Afterall these groups of teammates must funnel through the doorway. Only time I have trouble handling a group of people, is if they number 3-4 or more, or they coordinate precisely to come through multiple entrances simultaneously. But thats a lot of manpower and effort to tear away one lone camper.

 

[patsu]

You don't have time for that. As soon as you enter the room the marksman knows you are there, unless some how you managed to get lucky and go through his teammates and enter the back door (from the marksman's perspective). You are already gunned down before you start trying to search out the marksman. He's either camping the entrance, or he sniping out another window/door way and has c4 covering the other entrance. The simple detonation of the c4 reveals intruders, even if it wasn't a c4 kill. But the most deadly marksman is one that doesn't even bother with the sniper most of time and thus won't be distracted.

BTW the the cloaked marksman can be spotted by placing ur cursor over him. It turns red just like the INF, but at any range.

If he's protected by teammates, then I would wait for my teammates first of course. ^_^
C-4 will stop me but my teammates and bot usually will distract them until I revive again. So there is some chance of me getting even. So far it works most of the time, unless there are 2-3 cloaked Marksmen in the room. It would take a few tries.

I don't wait for the cursor to turn red. I simply assumed that they were there and opened fire. You have to run as if someone's shooting at you already.

Yes, I have removed 3 Marksmen in one sweep from the same room. They were not that experienced. I got shot while the last one went down but my teammates took the room.

 

[CozMick]

Not if he's using scramble+.

So GG should remove Scramble +.

Problem solved! fix this shit Guerilla

 

[BattleMonkey]

Why are GG so damn hush hush about this next patch?

If I were them i'd be advertising the fact they are fixing it.

Not everyone browses forums, they're gonna think the game is fucked, not changing maps n shit.

Probably because they don't know whats going to work yet? They are likely working on fixing many things but can't announce what till they get a patch closer to release with stuff actually fixed, otherwise lots of empty promises.

 

[patsu]

A marksman doesn't need to go for objectives to be incredibly useful. They can place themselves strategically with a view that leads up to the enemy objective or at enemy bottlenecks to put the fear of good into people. I know I think twice about going a certain way if I see people getting mowed down ahead of me.

A good marksman can lockdown entire areas of the map. Its entirely true that the Marksman is probably the least effective at attacking objectives, but they are ruddy useful for defending them.

Personally, I'm an engineer. Any other engineers out there? In my last six Operations games I've scored 6000+ and have been completing objectives while not dying very much. I've got my tactics locked down for:

ISA MAWLR
Helghast MAWLR
Helghast Frozen Dam
ISA Akmir Snowdrift
Helghast Akmir Snowdrift

The only one I need to work out an effective objective-->points plan is ISA Frozen Dam. I find it hard to get stuck into that one.

I like a hardworking Engineer with foresight. Saw one yesterday. He was an enemy but I spotted him building turrets around our SnD defense objective when no one's watching. Meant to kill him but failed and got distracted later. When our SnD round started, I remembered him and tried to sprint there. It was too late.

As a Medic and Infiltrator, I can hit 6-7000 on the average. 10,000-12,000 if enemies are not careful. 4,000 or below if I joined late or team underperformed.

 

[10dollas]

If he's protected by teammates, then I would wait for my teammates first of course. ^_^
C-4 will stop me but my teammates and bot usually will distract them until I revive again. So there is some chance of me getting even. So far it works most of the time, unless there are 2-3 cloaked Marksman in the room. It would take a few tries.

I don't wait for the cursor to turn red. I simply assumed that they were there and opened fire. You have to run as if someone's shooting at you already.

Yes, I have removed 3 Marksman in one sweep from the same room. They were not that experienced. I got shot while the last one went down but my teammates took the room.

The thing is, you are at severe disadvantage entering into the room. If you killed 3 marksman, they completely suck. But lets look at the situation precisely. The marksman knows where you are at immediately. You don't know until after spending time sweeping the room or until the marksman opens fire. Assuming equal skill in dispatching the opponents. The marksmen wins this situation 9/10 times with ease, unless he's set where your facing him just as you enter the door (That would however be idiocy on the marksman's decision making). If you are lucky you wounded him a little bit in the exchange. Otherwise he's still 100% and ready for teammate number 2. Teammate #2 may or may not be on equal footing with the marksman still yet. It just depends on how quickly he entered the room after you. Too soon, and your teammate died with you in the same clip, during of which you guys both had little knowledge of the wearabouts or your killer. Too late and the sniper's cloak has regenerated. Still my very common scenario doesn't account for the first person that c4 probably stopped.

And as for the medic. Sure sometimes selfrevive can bite yah in the ass. But more often than not it doesn't help. Shoot the corpse when able. Or shoot the medic the moment he gets up. Firefights don't tend to last too long and thus don't always serve as long enough distractions.

I hate how much this sounds likes theorycrafting, but this above actually happens so often.

 

[patsu]

The thing is, you are at severe disadvantage entering into the room. If you killed 3 marksman, they completely suck. But lets look at the situation precisely. The marksman knows where you are at immediately. You don't know until after spending time sweeping the room or until the marksman opens fire. Assuming equal skill in dispatching the opponents. The marksmen wins this situation 9/10 times with ease, unless he's set where your facing him just as you enter the door (That would however be idiocy on the marksman's decision making). If you are lucky you wounded him a little bit in the exchange. Otherwise he's still 100% and ready for teammate number 2. Teammate #2 may or may not be on equal footing with the marksman still yet. It just depends on how quickly he entered the room after you. Too soon, and your teammate died with you in he same clip, during of which you guys both had no knowledge of the wearabouts. Too late and the sniper's cloak has regenerated. Still my very common scenario doesn't account for the first person that c4 probably stopped.

I hate how much this sounds likes theorycrafting, but this above actually happens so often.

That's because they are afraid of the teammates rushing behind me, not just me. ^_^

Their cloaking will be undone when they kill me. Shooting also causes them to ripple. Their silenced weapons don't work as well on a medic with extra armor and auto heal. Plus I would run using pillars and walls as obstacles.

There are a few occasions where the Marksman is really good, but you can snipe him back when his cloaking is undone. Or as a medic, revive the sniped teammate and charge in at that time since his advantage is gone.

 

[StealthGoblin]

It really is a shame that there are only three Operations maps. I love it more than KZ3 warzone and just a bit less than KZ2 warzone, but I know I'll get tired of the same three maps.

 

[10dollas]

That's because they are afraid of the teammates rushing behind me, not just me. ^_^

Their cloaking will be undone when they kill me. Shooting also causes them to ripple. Their silenced weapons don't work as well on a medic with extra armor and auto heal. Plus I would run using pillars and walls as obstacles.

There are a few occasions where the Marksman is really good, but you can snipe him back when his cloaking is undone. Or as a medic, revive the sniped teammate and charge in at that time since his advantage is gone.

I added this to my last post-->And as for the medic. Sure sometimes selfrevive can bite yah in the ass. But more often than not it doesn't help. Shoot the corpse when able. Or shoot the medic the moment he gets up. Firefights don't tend to last too long and thus don't always serve as long enough distractions.



Sure the sniper isn't invincible. But he's certainly very strong in more than just a few occasions. It takes luck, good coordination or a large manpower distraction to root him out. Camping, gun only, already yields an advantage. Camping+ c4 increases that advantage. Give the Camper invisibility to sight and both radar and suddenly Mr. Camp-a-lot has found his favorite game ever. Campers have it easy. And the typical tools used to clear out campers (grenades/rockets) just aren't adequate enough when the camper is smart. Its not balanced when the counter to a tactic requires a lot more skill/effort/manpower than the tactic itself requires. This is the point I'm trying to make.

 

[RedRedSuit]

Infiltrator is a really good individual killing class. To balance that, it's not a really good "help your team" class. For example, a Tactician can easily sway the flow of battle or even a couple of battles by merely pressing d-pad Left -- and that's without TSA capturing abilities. AND he can use drones. By contrast, an Inf can only get the drop on someone and run real fast.

So no huge problems on the class balance front for me.

The map design front, on the other hand.... (Okay, I'll shut up about the maps now.)

 

[commish]

If a marksmen is between 15 and 30 meters away from you they will be revealed by spot and mark if you can see them when the scan hits.

But the counter?

That depends, are you one of the crappy players that thinks GW = KZ3? Well then there isn't much of a counter for that one mode, because that mode is perfect for the Marksmen.

All other modes though?

Hard to sniper when the entire team is trying to plant explosives inside a building, and then if the marksmen decides to help out in the objective, they can't sit still, even in a corner because crosshairs still turn red when you put them over a sniper from within 25 meters or so.

Marksmen can't plant faster, can defuse faster, can't capture TSAs, can't revive people, can't place turrets, can't fix anything, can't even restock themselves with ammo.

The marksmen's counter is that its ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON OTHER CLASSES TO BE EFFECTIVE. Marksmen have no secondary points stream. They can't use an airbot to garner assists and lay down cover fire, they can't put a turret down to defend and objective when they're not there.

Frankly invisibility isn't that useful when you're going for objectives.

But were you talking about Guerilla Warfare? In that case LOL GTFO

Absolutely wrong.

I can't count the number of kills I've had defending my team's S&R location.

I've lost count of my much easier it is to hold a C&H location when you can hide cloaked and easily pick off anyone who is capturing.

For assassination defense, marksmen provide a great barrier between the enemy and the target. Enemies will often sprint right up to you without realizing you are there. Mow them down.

For assassination offense, snipers are probably the biggest worry people have, which is why they hide behind buildings or in rooms.

For bodycount, we all know how easy it is to get a great KDR using the marksman class.

For search and destroy offense, I prefer to go infiltrator until we get a plant, and if we have the advantage, I'll go marksman because a marksman can guard the plant zone better than anyone. I get a lot of kills doing this.

For search and destroy defense, obviously snipers make great defenders, and a sniper sitting on the bomb locations can take out most planters.

Invisibility is extremely useful when going after objectives. There are two ways to skin a cat. Simply planting the bomb isn't all that is needed to win S&D, and capturing the speaker isn't all that is needed to win S&R, etc etc.

 

[Meijimasha]

A marksman doesn't need to go for objectives to be incredibly useful.

That's where I stopped reading because a statement as false as that cannot possibly be followed up by anything remotely intelligent.

 

[patsu]

I added this to my last post-->And as for the medic. Sure sometimes selfrevive can bite yah in the ass. But more often than not it doesn't help. Shoot the corpse when able. Or shoot the medic the moment he gets up. Firefights don't tend to last too long and thus don't always serve as long enough distractions.

That's why I tend to wait for a teammate. The enemy usually don't have time to take another few shots. Plus the bot continues to shoot while I'm down. It's not uncommon for the bot to kill the sniper too. Even if I got killed, the sniper's cloaking would be undone.

When I charge in, I sometimes run out of the room through the other end (or up/down the stairs), or hide behind a pillar to auto heal. While doing so, the bot does my job for me. ^_^

Sure the sniper isn't invincible. But he's certainly very strong in more than just a few occasions. It takes luck, good coordination or a large manpower distraction to root him out. Camping, gun only, already yields an advantage. Camping+ c4 increases that advantage. Give the Camper invisibility to sight and both radar and suddenly Mr. Camp-a-lot has found his favorite game ever. Campers have it easy. And the typical tools used to clear out campers (grenades/rockets) just aren't adequate enough when the camper is smart. Its not balanced when the counter to a tactic requires a lot more skill/effort/manpower than the tactic itself requires. This is the point I'm trying to make.

Campers don't have to choose snipers exclusively. I have seen camping Tacts and Infilrators with rocket launhers too. Even rocket turrets are camping. So far, snipers are the king of long corridor camping. No one can win him because there's no where else to run in a long corridor, and you can't see him (so he fires first).