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KILLZONE 3 |OT| The King Is Dead. Long Live The King.
- Thread starter alr1ght
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StealthGoblin
Banned
pixelbox said:
I don't care about their time restraints or headcount. For my £45, I feel I haven't got as good of a deal as I did with KZ2. KZ3 feels like its all over the place. Its rather sloppy.
pixelbox said:
IIRC, there were reports that the other sony devs harbored resentment at guerilla games for the time/resources/money being invested in them for KZ2 as unproven developers. GG only has to develop 1 IP as well. Nobody is saying Uncharted 2 is perfect, but there's so many elements and principles in game design that surface in UC2 that seem that they didn't even cross the minds of GG for KZ2 or 3. Pacing in both narrative and game design is most evident. Essentially, Naughty Dog rewards it's players by ramping up the stakes/difficulty/technical presentation of UC2 in a way that's very cohesive to the story. KZ3 just hits a single tone of linear design that doesn't really payoff for the player. There's nothing that works to keep the player/audience engaged.
Again, there's great potential in the Killzone universe. Its art design gives it all the potential to be just as iconic as the best in the action/fps genre, but it's actual game design falls so short of matching it's art/technical design that it's a shame. I think to really have the impact of a Uncharted it needs to change hands of developers.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
pixelbox said:
2 year cycle:
Development started for Uncharted 1 in 2005
Uncharted 1 released in 2007
Uncharted 2 released in 2009
Uncharted 3 releases in 2011 (tentatively 11/1/11)
Not saying KZ3 has to be perfect or try to force in stuff, it's up to the Dev and their outline of what they want to showcase
The game does feel rushed, you can see they removed some awesome MP features, because trying to evolve it or keeping it in would be more time consuming
Doesn't help key element parts of the dev team left for greener pastures due to whatever reasons
The game tries to be tactical + class based, yet is trying to appease a broader demographic (hello casuals/COD fans) by being subjected to a run n' gun approach (your either be one or the other or if you want to be a hybrid, you better get all kinks and polish that shit right, or get a backlash from the players)
I have stated this many time:
KZ2<<<<<<<<<<SWEET SPOT!>>>>>>>>>>KZ3
makingmusic476
Member
Agreed 100%.Dibbz said:
Even devs that have been putting out awesome games for years have issues when they're short on time, as was the case with Resistance 2.
BattleMonkey
Member
An engine doesn't mean you can quickly churn out games like it's nothing. Lot of work has to be done and lot of reworking of the engine was done as well. The MP seems to be like they scrapped the original and started it over.
They put out an impressive product though it seems to have obvious rushed aspects all over it. KZ2 while I think was flawed and had a very weak SP, felt like a more solid and polished product. Still find it a better game so far but still need more time with the MP to properly judge.
They put out an impressive product though it seems to have obvious rushed aspects all over it. KZ2 while I think was flawed and had a very weak SP, felt like a more solid and polished product. Still find it a better game so far but still need more time with the MP to properly judge.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
makingmusic476 said:
Yeah Insomniac was on the 1 year cycle, in the long run it diluted the product
R2 was thrown out in 1 year, you could tell it was rushed very quickly
R1 2006
R&CFTOD 2007
R2 2008
Insomniac is now on 2+ year cycle, and has opened a second studio for resources
GG had 2 years, yes there were some big overhauls to the MP system, but some key functional parts that were amazing are completely taken out for no apparent reason, like spawn on squad leader, valor points, amazing stat information, etc.
How can you advance the games tech, and make people gush going *Purrtier than the last Purrty one, yuck yuck*, then remove the soul of the game and just give us a shell of a game
BattleMonkey
Member
GraveRobberX said:
Insomniac don't make games in one year, they work on multiple games at once, R2 was in the works for more than a year. They are putting more time between titles now but they didn't just pump out a game and start a new one before.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
BattleMonkey said:
Not saying they waited until 1 game is finished, go on a 1-2 week hiatus, and come back to start up new/next project, but Insomniac did push teams to finish the game for that year first, then roll up the pre-production assets for the next game to be churned out and all teams would go focuss on that, while pre-production of game for 2 years comes to fruition
Lets leave the squabbling of Insomniac dev cycle or GG dev cycle, doesn't fit in with this thread
BobTheFork
Member
Well the MW games were coming out one a year, or about twice as fast as the KZ games. It's not really so fast for development and certainly not fast enough they need to split the franchise and have GG making what would be one KZ every 4 years.erlim said:
erlim said:
Nice trolling there, sutil.
erlim said:
Well, you ignore that GG was the first developer (first party or otherwise) to truly show what the PS3 was capable of, that Killzone 3 has the best controls and gunplay of any FPS on the system, and you're completely full of shit on the "principles of game design" that you grasp so well and GG just doesn't seem to understand, with just nonsense after nonsense that doesn't even begin to make sense.
Xater said:
Yes, but no one wants to be a tactician, apparently, and no one gives two shits about getting the TSPs (or winning). I'd have a 2:1 KDR if all I did was try to kill the other team and didn't try for the objectives - apparently, to many folks, that's what they want. It's disheartening to play and be the ONLY person trying to get TSPs, so much so that I've just about given up being a tactician in random pubbie play.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
commish said:
All I see are Infiltrators & Marksman
Then the random Medic, who doesn't revive and pulls his bout out to be his bodyguard
Now the Tacts are disappearing quickly, due to the TSA being a pain to hold, and see their K/D plummet while in the process
Engineers = non-existent, I maybe see 1 in 10+ game who fixes crates and builds his sentry turret in good location, and not right in the middle of the bottleneck areas
You can only have 8 in a squad, the FTSG clan/squad fills up very quickly, so either you break into 2 teams, or play by yourself
It isn't fun, when your team doesn't give a flying fuck, but I try to do all 5 classes
I'll go Engi, fix 2-3 boxes near my base, 1 in the middle for myself & the team, get kills, die
Respawn as Tact and try to get at least 2 of the 3-4 TSA, get them, try to get kills, call in Sentry Droid to protect area, be guard dog, die
Respawn as Infiltrator, go on killing rampage
Medic if I see to many teammates dying, caught in a bottleneck, Marksman only if my team is super fucking stupid, then I just chill back, and pick of straddlers
Edit: Was on Craigslist (NYC), god damn there are a lot of people selling KZ3, $40-50, not even a week
Thrakier said:
I personally don't understand why the people care that much about it. My K/D ratio is under 1 and I have no problem with that. I play a medic, I get gunned down quite often doing my job and I also see the objectives as my priority. K/D ratio is not what get's these guys XP.
Yep. And the best way to boost your k/d ratio is to farm kills in objective-based games. The thing is, if you play against a team that caps all the TSPs or the majority of them, you are going to get spawn camped all day and will not have a very fun time, so it kind of goes both ways.
Guerrilla Games is the pity developer. Last gen Killzone didnt turn out as good as it should have been because of hardware limitations and the pressure put on them by the media that hailed Killzone as the Halo Killer.
Killzone 2 didnt turn out good because of the pressure put on them to show that they can make a decent game and pressure put on them by Sony to make their AAA FPS franchise. They also had pressure on them to show up that prerendered trailer from 2005.
Killzone 3 didnt turn out good because of the pressure put on them by Sony to implement Move & 3D and to make it their COD. They also had time constraints for whatever reason....even though they already had an engine in place.
I think I see a pattern...Guerrilla Games cant work under pressure and they shoot themselves in the foot by seemingly overly focusing on tech 1st and then making a game.
Killzone 2 didnt turn out good because of the pressure put on them to show that they can make a decent game and pressure put on them by Sony to make their AAA FPS franchise. They also had pressure on them to show up that prerendered trailer from 2005.
Killzone 3 didnt turn out good because of the pressure put on them by Sony to implement Move & 3D and to make it their COD. They also had time constraints for whatever reason....even though they already had an engine in place.
I think I see a pattern...Guerrilla Games cant work under pressure and they shoot themselves in the foot by seemingly overly focusing on tech 1st and then making a game.
Thrakier said:
A lot of people don't even realize that TSP exist frankly, future patches need to help guide players towards teamwork. THe most obvious inclusion of a medic secific icon on the map has already been covered, but there needs to be a greater emphasis on TSP on the overhead map when you're at the spawn menu, I've heard people with plenty of unlock points not even realizing that you can spawn somewhere besides the main base.
Everything said I think that Guerilla still delivered a good game, it may not be exactly what I wanted, and it may be rushed, but they made a good game all the same and there are some very impressive things about it.
erlim said:
I wouldn't call 1 report that said that 1 developer (Insomniac) was resentful to be as big of a deal as you're making it out to be.
woolley said:
At worst I've encountered a game that was 12 versus 8, weird.
shadowsdarknes
Member
And unfortunately, they're probably going to do that for PS4, too.mr_nothin said:
GraveRobberX said:
There are WAY WAY WAY too many marksmen in the game, but I totally understand why. There's no downside to the class - you can cloak, get an assault rifle or a sniper gun/auto pistol (that doesn't break cloak), jam radars, don't appear on radars, and have just as much health as everyone else. I recently unlocked 9/10 for the marksman myself and plan to try it out a bit - I'm not sold that that Scramble++ does more good than harm.
Well I play tactician all day and most of the time there's never another tactician on my team. It's an uphill battle but I still have a 2.20 KDR and I always finish with the highest rank/most kills/and most points. I always end up with about 60-80 kills per game.commish said:
If ppl play the game the way it's supposed to be played then you can get kills while doing objectives too but noooo...lets go to an area, get a kill or 2 then die by some guy camping in a corner.....then respawn and run to that same spot to try to go kill the guy that was camping...only to meet the other ppl you killed in the same area. They kill you and you want revenge so you hurry up and respawn to run to that SAME area to try and kill the same ppl that you killed and have killed you. It's like an episode of groundhog day sometimes. It's very easy to get caught up in the "OCD" mindset in this game.
lol at that guy saying GG is Treyarch. KZ3 turned out to be a great game with just a bit of polish missing in places. They are one of the best developers Sony has right now.
Sony either needs to give them more time or them maybe need a smaller team to work on smaller titles to give them some breathing space, like what insomniac is doing.
Sony either needs to give them more time or them maybe need a smaller team to work on smaller titles to give them some breathing space, like what insomniac is doing.
The story was a fucking disgrace. (I know, what are you expecting in a FPS shooter Duke?)
My summary of the story:
I realized about 30 minutes in that I really don't give a rat's ass about the ISA characters at all. I'd actually rather Killzone 4 be played as a Helghast.
Having said all that, some of the set pieces near the end were mind blowing.
My summary of the story:
"We Got to get to Narville!!!" "Fuck you Narville!!" "Press O to commit genocide"
I realized about 30 minutes in that I really don't give a rat's ass about the ISA characters at all. I'd actually rather Killzone 4 be played as a Helghast.
Having said all that, some of the set pieces near the end were mind blowing.
I don't understand why more people don't want to be Tacts. I mean you get possibly the best gun in the game the M82, eventually a Rocket Launcher, you can spot enemies around corners with its ability, and you can even net a few kills with a sentry bot.
And on top of that if you get a new TSP (aside from just happening to help out your bros) you get a new broken Mortar Strike every minute or so.
And on top of that if you get a new TSP (aside from just happening to help out your bros) you get a new broken Mortar Strike every minute or so.
I mean, I get why a lot of people dont realize that they exist. You cant even see the TSPs if you're not a Tactician right? It doesnt show up on your screen OR on the mini-map IIRC. They should at least have it marked on the radar and show the status of the TSP. Green = Your spawn, Red = Enemy Spawn, White = Neutral.Zen said:
BattleMonkey
Member
moonspeak said:
Snipers are cool, everyone wants to be snipers in all FPS. It's like Bad Company 2 and the awfulness of getting stuck on teams of nothing but snipers instead of anyone doing the objectives.
While it was stupid to lock out the classes in KZ2, it at least kept players from all jumping into the role of sniper for a long time since it was the last class unlock.
Yea, I really dont like Salamun Market in KZ3....especially when I was forced to play it like 10 times back to back without knowing how to fix the bug at 1st. It really is a mess. Why do they have the TSPs RIGHT next to each other. 1 on the roof and then right around the corner is 1 on the ground level. It just turns into a infinite spawn battle where people just throw grenades around the corner.TTP said:
mr_nothin said:
I have 25 to 30 hours of MP so far, and I don't think I've seen more than one or two matches when someone got 60 kills, let alone 80. It would appear that you are just better than everyone else
What you described happens oh so much. On that graveyard map, there was a game when the other team held the two rooms in the train or whatever closest to our spawn - they were just sitting in there and slaughtering my team as they tried to go through the doors. Want to know how long my team was dying in those two rooms, rushing back only to die again? The entire match. It just made no sense.
left_senseless
Banned
killzone 3's MP makes me really miss tactical spawn grenades. i loved being a tact before. now i feel that i am more separated from the team rather than being apart of the team. i am always fighting a one man battle trying to steal TSPs and protect them. all GG had to do is remove the smoke, allow the spawn grenades to show up on friendly radar, and maybe make it a small flashing beacon that would make it harder for the other team to locate a properly placed spawn grenade. then spread the spawn area a little wider than just spawning directly in front of the grenade.
supermackem
Banned
Aumann said:
Yeah cant connect.
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