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[Amir0x]

I just can't understand what's tough about following the orange marker. *shrug*

There is nothing tough to understand. That's why this is remarkable. There is literally no way to make it less confusing for maps with any level of nonlinearity than what is in Shadow Fall without a constant on screen map, which would just diminish exploration. Well, unless you go all PDZ glowing yellow arrows on the floor route, which was just pathetic and should make any gamer who chose that feel bad

 

[Gritesh]

Just finished the game enjoyed everything until the end.

The continuous onslaught of everything you fought in the game over and over is a shitty way to design the end of the game.

To be honest the best chapter was 10.

Going to play multiplayer this week for a bit and then trade it in, local stores are giving 40 for it and that's what I paid for it so win win for me.

 

[viveks86]

Damn, I remember those days. Hell, even in Doom I got lost several times lol.

Same here. The frustration from getting lost was part of the experience. It used to feel so rewarding when you just make it through somehow. Now people want actual rewards to feel rewarded. I think the era of the GPS has spoilt us. We now live in the give-me-a-button-to-show-which-way-I-should-turn age.

Your point is undermined by the fact that 1993 example had an in-game map.

So you are telling me you never got lost playing those games? That's the point i'm trying to make. Not the fact that there is or isn't a map

 

[Chamber]

I just can't understand what's tough about following the orange marker. *shrug*

.

The levels aren't even as big as I imagined. Hell in the forest, you have one objective on the right, a couple of the left and then you go to the middle in the end. I thought it was pretty damn basic. *shrug*

 

[msdstc]

i am so pissed that ACTUAL EXPLORATION is a negative now. Goddamn modern gaming has ruined game design :/

Killzone: Shadow Fall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>x23873278782627362362368 the other KZ for less linear design. Yeah, I said it.

Agreed, best in the series for me by far. I'm neve rone of these people who jump down reviewers throats (except when they got it so wrong with Resistance 2), but this is a disaster of reviewing. Lower than COD? Really? The worlds are varied and alive, the art is amazing, the gunplay is awesome, everything about this is a step up from the other games. It's not perfect, but it's a big step up.

 

[jwbrown77]

It also might be worth it to replay the entire segment(before you get on the turret) and try to clear out some of the enemies.

That was my other thought (how much before getting on the turret affects this). I'll try that since this seems like a dead end.

Thanks.

 

[Amir0x]

.

The levels aren't even as big as I imagined. Hell in the forest, you have one objective on the right, a couple of the left and then you go to the middle in the end. I thought it was pretty damn basic. *shrug*

That's what makes this conversation even worse! It wasn't even confusing without a marker! Shit wasn't that big at all!

I understand devs now, though. When you gotta coddle gamers this hard, no wonder they avoid nonlinearity.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I just can't understand what's tough about following the orange marker. *shrug*

worst thing about the Orange Marker is that it disappears after 30 seconds. secondly the level design is a bit awkward which makes it near impossible to find places where you need to go to get to the location.

There are very few location hints and I feel the developers have made this game harder than it should be when it comes to directions


- No auto aim
- Map design hinders point to point walking/running
- Orange Marker disappears

 

[kurbaan]

There is nothing tough to understand. That's why this is remarkable. There is literally no way to make it less confusing for maps with any level of nonlinearity than what is in Shadow Fall without a constant on screen map, which would just diminish exploration. Well, unless you go all PDZ glowing yellow arrows on the floor route, which was just pathetic and should make any gamer who chose that feel bad

Yup, at chapter 7 now and I am SO happy that the levels in this game a wide open and non linear. Even with the big levels I never felt lost because all you need to do is press UP to see the objective.

The best part is figuring out which route to take to the objective.

If people can't handle big levels its kinda sad. COD has ruined a generation of gamers.

 

[Ilive1up]

i've lost every single multipayer match. i've played about 8 or so games. all losses. the fuck? doesn't help that i can't speak to the people on my team.

 

[scoobs]

Problem w/ exploration is there should be a reason for it to exist, and there is none w/ this game. Collectables? Meh. I felt lost on just about every level and there just wasn't enough information given to the player as to where to go and what to do and why you're doing it.

 

[BluePigGanon]

So you are telling me you never got lost playing those games? That's the point i'm trying to make. Not the fact that there is or isn't a map

No, I'm telling you it's disingenuous to say "look how much level design is dumbed down" when Example A had a built-in map in case you needed to look at it and figure out where you are and where you've been.

I'm all for a "games are too linear these days" rant. I'm usually the guy in the Zelda threads saying the game has been all downhill since the NES days when you weren't even sure where to go next. I 100% agree modern games are super dumbed down. But to use this game, KZ:SF, as the starting point of the conversation is silly; in my opinion it totally fails to acknowledge that the best non-linear, open level designs are in fact the ones that require the most skill to build, and that non-linear can be executed poorly.

I understand devs now, though. When you gotta coddle gamers this hard, no wonder they avoid nonlinearity.

Yes you've said this like 4 times now. Nobody is asking or wanting to be coddled, stop reducing my argument, please?

 

[Amir0x]

Problem w/ exploration is there should be a reason for it to exist, and there is none w/ this game. Collectables? Meh. I felt lost on just about every level and there just wasn't enough information given to the player as to where to go and what to do and why you're doing it.

The nonlinearity is specifically for multiple approaches to many situations and for collectibles. There is never any more incentive for nonlinearity than expansion of gameplay ideals.

Killzone utilizes it often

 

[Maninthemirror]

Problem w/ exploration is there should be a reason for it to exist, and there is none w/ this game. Collectables? Meh. I felt lost on just about every level and there just wasn't enough information given to the player as to where to go and what to do and why you're doing it.

thats my problem with the game too. they want you to explore but the maps and incentives are not developed for exploration.

 

[viveks86]

I think the era of the GPS has spoilt us. We now live in the give-me-a-button-to-show-which-way-I-should-turn age.

worst thing about the Orange Marker is that it disappears after 30 seconds. secondly the level design is a bit awkward which makes it near impossible to find places where you need to go to get to the location.

There are very few location hints and I feel the developers have made this game harder than it should be when it comes to directions


- No auto aim
- Map design hinders point to point walking/running
- Orange Marker disappears

Annnnnd I rest my case. Not saying these expectations are necessarily bad, just saying I miss the good ol' times.

 

[Uno Venova]

worst thing about the Orange Marker is that it disappears after 30 seconds. secondly the level design is a bit awkward which makes it near impossible to find places where you need to go to get to the location.

There are very few location hints and I feel the developers have made this game harder than it should be when it comes to directions


- No auto aim
- Map design hinders point to point walking/running
- Orange Marker disappears

Staying on longer than 30 seconds might annoy people, and since you can just press up again for it to stay there I think they figured out a good medium.

No auto aim is a godsend though, especially in multiplayer, now a person has to actually keep their reticule on a target until the target i dead instead of having the reticule guided for them, makes multiplayer have a nice no bullshit factor to it as well.

 

[viveks86]

No, I'm telling you it's disingenuous to say "look how much level design is dumbed down" when Example A had a built-in map in case you needed to look at it and figure out where you are and where you've been.

I'm all for a "games are too linear these days" rant. I'm usually the guy in the Zelda threads saying the game has been all downhill since the NES days when you weren't even sure where to go next. I 100% agree modern games are super dumbed down. But to use this game, KZ:SF, as the starting point of the conversation is silly; in my opinion it totally fails to acknowledge that the best non-linear, open level designs are in fact the ones that require the most skill to build, and that non-linear can be executed poorly.

Sigh. I think you are arguing with the wrong person. I did not claim level design is dumbed down. I don't think the direction we have taken in game design is necessarily bad. It is, for all intents and purposes, progress. I just miss getting lost, being clueless and being forced to figure it out. I'm neither interested in changing the way level design is done these days (I like them too) nor doing an "I'm smarter than thou, try to keep up" monologue. Just saying I'm old school and would like to see such level design every now and then to scratch that itch. That's all!

 

[viveks86]

Shit! Redundant post!

 

[viveks86]

God damn it! Sorry guys. Gaf crashed on me!

 

[Chamber]

Tap up and the orange marker reappears.

No auto aim is among the better aspects of the game. Never thought I would see that mentioned as a negative.

 

[Amir0x]

Tap up and the orange marker reappears.

No auto aim is among the better aspects of the game. Never thought I would see that mentioned as a negative.

gamers are simply lost. There is no returning to normalcy. I see that now.

 

[BluePigGanon]

Sigh. I think you are arguing with the wrong person. I did not claim level design is dumbed down. I don't think the direction we have taken in game design is necessarily bad. It is, for all intents and purposes, progress. I just miss getting lost, being clueless and being forced to figure it out. I'm neither interested in changing the way level design is done these days (I like them too) nor doing a "I'm smarter than thou" monologue. Just saying I'm old school and would like to see such level design every now and then to scratch that itch. That's all!

We can agree on all that.

No auto aim is among the better aspects of the game. Never thought I would see that mentioned as a negative.

I am loving the lack of auto aim, partly because the DS4 is so nice.

 

[btkadams]

i am so pissed that ACTUAL EXPLORATION is a negative now. Goddamn modern gaming has ruined game design :/

Killzone: Shadow Fall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>x23873278782627362362368 the other KZ for less linear design. Yeah, I said it.

so you're enjoying the game more than the others? i was curious what you thought after i read your post in the review thread prior to launch (you said something like it'd be another pretty, but boring game).

 

[Amir0x]

so you're enjoying the game more than the others? i was curious what you thought after i read your post in the review thread prior to launch (you said something like it'd be another pretty, but boring game).

I have liked no other Killzone games except the PSP game and I just started the Vita game and find that one to be pretty decent.

This one is definitely superior. For its nonlinearity, precisely. Many different ways to tackle most scenarios. All I care about, gameplay flexibility. All in service for gameplay. I never get lost for long since I can read basic instructions.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I only had to use the objective markers a few times so far. That forest level, when there's a big plume of smoke in the distance and your first objective is to see what happened to the team that crashed there, that's a pretty good indication of where to go. It's really not that hard to follow, I'm genuinely surprised people are having issues with this.

 

[jwbrown77]

That was my other thought (how much before getting on the turret affects this). I'll try that since this seems like a dead end.

Thanks.

For anyone else who might be struggling at the turret in chapter 7, the fix for me was to restart the zone and kill more enemies before getting on the turret.

Going up to the second story, picking up the exploding gun with the scope, and using it behind the OWL's shield seems to be a good strategy. Take out as many enemies as possible before the game tells you you can enter the turret.

Thanks Jarmel and others.

 

[nib95]

The nonlinearity is specifically for multiple approaches to many situations and for collectibles. There is never any more incentive for nonlinearity than expansion of gameplay ideals.

Killzone utilizes it often

That and taking in the gorgeous visuals and art design lol. I'm going to revel in the exploration, even if it means getting lost from time to time. This notion that we have to know exactly where to go at all times seems ridged and too contrived.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

worst thing about the Orange Marker is that it disappears after 30 seconds. secondly the level design is a bit awkward which makes it near impossible to find places where you need to go to get to the location.

There are very few location hints and I feel the developers have made this game harder than it should be when it comes to directions


- No auto aim
- Map design hinders point to point walking/running
- Orange Marker disappears

lol you guys got got. This is clearly a joke post.

 

[Chamber]

I am loving the lack of auto aim, partly because the DS4 is so nice.

Dual Shock 4 is definitely as good as advertised in the shooter department. I've never had an easier time aiming with dual analogs.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Played some mp finally. Pretty fun but the menus are kind of confusing.

Also played sp a bit and had an awesome kill streak with the mini gun. Tried to share the video but for some reason the video clip was from earlier in the day. So it never recorded that footage.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Problem w/ exploration is there should be a reason for it to exist, and there is none w/ this game. Collectables? Meh. I felt lost on just about every level and there just wasn't enough information given to the player as to where to go and what to do and why you're doing it.

Adrenalin packs, ammo, different weapons, and the collectibles are real neat and give lot of background fluff to the game.

 

[BloodMoney]

Need assistance at the

Spoiler

second space station

.

I am playing on hard, and

Spoiler

cannot get past the section where you are holding off waves of Helgahn... when they are setting up shields, and troops with mini-guns, personal shields, etc are advancing towards you (and a handful of fellow troops). There is a point at which a drop ship comes in, along with 3 or 4 drones... Whenever that happens all the friendly troops manage to get killed, along with the defensive turrets that are set up. I end up in a 1 vs 10 fight that I simply cannot get past.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[btkadams]

I have liked no other Killzone games except the PSP game and I just started the Vita game and find that one to be pretty decent.

This one is definitely superior. For its nonlinearity, precisely. Many different ways to tackle most scenarios. All I care about, gameplay flexibility. All in service for gameplay. I never get lost for long since I can read basic instructions.

ah, ok. yeah i haven't finished the campaign yet, but i'm definitely feeling like it's better than the previous games for that reason too. i still enjoyed the others though.

I only had to use the objective markers a few times so far. That forest level, when there's a big plume of smoke in the distance and your first objective is to see what happened to the team that crashed there, that's a pretty good indication of where to go. It's really not that hard to follow, I'm genuinely surprised people are having issues with this.

i think people have just become used to being shoved to where they're supposed to go. i blame game designers more than i blame gamers. it depends on what games people play these days too. my 10 year old self would have probably had a much easier time finding where to go than i do currently. admittedly, i only had some trouble in the forest, so it really hasn't been a big issue to me. i've really enjoyed the freedom.

 

[BloodMoney]

That and taking in the gorgeous visuals and art design lol. I'm going to revel in the exploration, even if it means getting lost from time to time. This notion that we have to know exactly where to go at all times seems ridged and too contrived.

The detail in ALL of the environments, and the variation between environments is truly breathtaking. The game as at it's best when you are in classic KZ shootouts, but the exploration, zero-g & tense semi-horror bits are jaw-dropping. I like the pace of the game and figure GG chose to slow down the pace at times so that they could show off the sheet power of PS4. The

Spoiler

first space station

was extremely atmospheric and I loved it despite the lack of combat.

 

[Artorias]

I spent about 5 minutes on single player before realizing I would probably not have much fun with it. I'll play it some day I'm sure.

Multiplayer though, omfg. It's absolutely amazing. I haven't even launched another game yet. I just don't feel the need to. I'm mostly playing support so far as thats the class I'm most used to. I was mainly engineer in KZ3 so I'm a little bummed at the merging of classes but it seems really fair so far. Everyone has access to game changing abilities.

One thing I'm confused about, how do you do MP "missions" that aren't included in classic Warzone? I see that one different mission is included in Elite Team Survival, but isn't there a way to play Warzone with all missions available or something? I'm mainly wanting to try them and complete some challenges, I just can't figure out how.

 

[soldierblue]

Is there any way to get the audio logs to output through the main speakers rather than the controller?

 

[X-Frame]

In MP, how do you switch to your alternative fire settings like Mobile Mine, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, etc?

 

[BloodMoney]

Also, is anyone else blown away by how smooth this game is? It's like butter slathered all over an array of particle effects, hq textures, blah blah blah, so so good.

 

[RoboPlato]

I'm on chapter 8 and am loving the campaign. Really great work. The only bad parts are (late game spoilers)

Spoiler

Massar's atrocious writing and dialogue and the terrible free fall onto Helghan

. Everything else has been a blast. Great mission design, atmosphere, art, punchy guns, exploration, and AI.

Need assistance at the

Spoiler

second space station

.

I am playing on hard, and

Spoiler

cannot get past the section where you are holding off waves of Helgahn... when they are setting up shields, and troops with mini-guns, personal shields, etc are advancing towards you (and a handful of fellow troops). There is a point at which a drop ship comes in, along with 3 or 4 drones... Whenever that happens all the friendly troops manage to get killed, along with the defensive turrets that are set up. I end up in a 1 vs 10 fight that I simply cannot get past.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Spoiler

Use the Volt energy cannon. It's on the gun rack behind you and your guys. It demolishes shields, has a wide AoE, and there's lots of ammo around. Put up an OWL shield and shoot through that and you'll get through it no problem.

 

[taoofjord]

I have liked no other Killzone games except the PSP game and I just started the Vita game and find that one to be pretty decent.

This one is definitely superior. For its nonlinearity, precisely. Many different ways to tackle most scenarios. All I care about, gameplay flexibility. All in service for gameplay. I never get lost for long since I can read basic instructions.

This is also the first Killzone campaign I've enjoyed. I really don't understand the reviews it has gotten. As I said earlier, it's feels a bit rough around the edges (no doubt due to being a launch game) but it plays extremely well.

 

[DoomGyver]

In MP, how do you switch to your alternative fire settings like Mobile Mine, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, etc?

press/hold down the on the d pad.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

There is nothing confusing about it though. Genuinely, being confused says more about the person who is confused than the game I have to imagine since it's so easy to figure out what to do.

It is all spelled out for you and you can press buttons to find your objective! In what universe is this confusing? What do you require, giant glowing yellow markers that pull your character like an inescapable bit of gravity, forcing you guys on rails?

The objective marker is horrendously difficult to see. They put it in the game and expect the player to use it, but made it difficult to see.

My other qualm with the game is its lack of consistency. Sometimes you can open doors, sometimes you can't. You can remove some of those energy fusion canister things, but some you can't. Sometimes you have to go up and press circle to activate something (also, whose genius idea was it to make the use button the same as the crouch button), but other times you have to use your Owl to hack.

I don't think anyone here is asking for glowing trails and over-the-top hand holding, but there's obviously something about Shadow Fall when this many people are talking about how obtuse it can be at times.

My God... I would hate to design games with today's gamers lol

I'm glad you don't. When your first reaction to people's frustrations is to insult their intelligence, I think you'd make an absolutely horrible game designer.

 

[Uno Venova]

The objective marker is horrendously difficult to see. They put it in the game and expect the player to use it, but made it difficult to see.

My other qualm with the game is its lack of consistency. Sometimes you can open doors, sometimes you can't. You can remove some of those energy fusion canister things, but some you can't. Sometimes you have to go up and press circle to activate something (also, whose genius idea was it to make the use button the same as the crouch button), but other times you have to use your Owl to hack.

I don't think anyone here is asking for glowing trails and over-the-top hand holding, but there's obviously something about Shadow Fall when this many people are talking about how obtuse it can be at times.

I'm glad you don't. When your first reaction to people's frustrations is to insult their intelligence, I think you'd make an absolutely horrible game designer.

There is consistency in the technology, flat panels in control rooms and on alarms get hacked, anything that uses a hand print is circle. I agree with the inconsistency on doors but I don't see the need to remove the energy canisters if there isn't a puzzle involving them.

 

[MThanded]

There is nothing tough to understand. That's why this is remarkable. There is literally no way to make it less confusing for maps with any level of nonlinearity than what is in Shadow Fall without a constant on screen map, which would just diminish exploration. Well, unless you go all PDZ glowing yellow arrows on the floor route, which was just pathetic and should make any gamer who chose that feel bad

That's what makes this conversation even worse! It wasn't even confusing without a marker! Shit wasn't that big at all!

I understand devs now, though. When you gotta coddle gamers this hard, no wonder they avoid nonlinearity.

There is a simple way to fix this. When you hit the objective button the marker can be off screen but you need to see an arrow to show where it is.

Right now its pretty shitty. Others have agreed. Don't do this...

It's pretty odd that you are implying there are no issues with the objective marker situation.

 

[FairXchange]

After a few busy days, I've finally got some time to put into Shadow Fall. First comment is, this game is absolutely stunning to look at. Some reviews said 'looks slightly better' than previous Killzone's. I recommend they get a new TV, or perhaps glasses. This game is a technical marvel. Amazing to look at, some moments look like CG in film. Will need to progress more to comment on story and catered in the SP.

 

[BattleMonkey]

The objective marker is a pain in the ass to see, that is true. That little orange circle so often blends into the game background.

 

[velociraptor]

Damn, I remember those days. Hell, even in Doom I got lost several times lol.

I used to get lost in Doom many, many times. :\

 

[viveks86]

I'm glad you don't. When your first reaction to people's frustrations is to insult their intelligence, I think you'd make an absolutely horrible game designer.

 

[MThanded]

The objective marker is a pain in the ass to see, that is true. That little orange circle so often blends into the game background.

The terrible objective marker defense force will be here in a few minutes to blame you for being a bad gamer or some shit like that.

 

[BluePigGanon]

The objective marker is horrendously difficult to see. They put it in the game and expect the player to use it, but made it difficult to see.

Big time - not a problem in any other level so far, but in the forest level which has so much going on visually, it's almost invisible.