In my opinion, Dream Drop Distance is miles ahead of Birth by Sleep in literally every aspect except for multiplayer.
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Kingdom Hearts 3D Dream Drop Distance |OT| Sora is Everyone in Every Dimension
- Thread starter Seda
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In my opinion, Dream Drop Distance is miles ahead of Birth by Sleep in literally every aspect except for multiplayer.
Wolf Akela
Member
I'm really disappointed there wasn't a mini-game that involved racing using Flowmotion. KH2 had so many mini-games.
I hate most KH minigames. One of the best parts in BbS is pressing one button to totally ignore the Hundred Acre Wood.
A flowmotion race could've been cool, but they already integrated that into several sections of the game, including bosses. Flick Rush is fine, though.
A flowmotion race could've been cool, but they already integrated that into several sections of the game, including bosses. Flick Rush is fine, though.
Is DDD your favorite KH?
Hundred Acre Wood always was the world which I hated the most in all KH games... I just can't stand Winnie the Pooh and those uninteresting mini-games.
... But at least, in KH2, you only had to do them once, whereas in 3D you have to play the Dream Eaters's minigames ad nauseum in order to level them up. Really, really annoying.
I was really disappointed by 3D... Why did they discard the leveling-up and the fusion of commands ? WHY ?! If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
... But at least, in KH2, you only had to do them once, whereas in 3D you have to play the Dream Eaters's minigames ad nauseum in order to level them up. Really, really annoying.
I was really disappointed by 3D... Why did they discard the leveling-up and the fusion of commands ? WHY ?! If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
No. That's still Kingdom Hearts II. But DDD is a close second.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I dunno but I'll still put BbS over DDD. I mean BbS had the princess worlds and all.
I'm still enjoying DDD, but the drop system has got to go. It's infuriating.
I'm still enjoying DDD, but the drop system has got to go. It's infuriating.
mugurumakensei
Member
The drop system will only make sense in the context of this game given certain events. Flowmotion needs some minor adjustments, but it should stay. Command melding needs to return along with D-links. Then, we'd have the perfect KH battle system.
they need to get rid of the infinite wall jump, and give flomotion attacks limitations of some kind.
mugurumakensei
Member
Nah, infinite wall jump needs to stay. Screw high jump.
badcrumble
Member
Also, command styles. BBS's traversal may not have been as good, but its battles were VASTLY better, and it had several times as much content.
RPGCrazied
Member
Finally. Can start playing this tomorrow! Such a long wait, will be worth it to play it on the XL. Will be glorious.
Wolf Akela
Member
Finished grinding for star-ranked DEs to start with my Lv1 Critical run, which took me like 3 hours. I still had plenty of money to create cheaper star-ranked DEs but I was already so stressed out that I just ignored it.
They really should've given us more save slots. My slot 1 goes to my Proud Mode. My slot 2 is a copy of that, but grinded for mats by killing DEs and selling my commands, which I just turned to Critical. I had to absolutely make sure I had everything I need since once I save my Critical, there's no going back.
Still, I'm happy to see my black Ryu Dragon ("Narga") and yellow Tyranto Rex ("Tigrex"). I'm going to recolor Tigrex to Orange because yellow looks AWFUL.
They really should've given us more save slots. My slot 1 goes to my Proud Mode. My slot 2 is a copy of that, but grinded for mats by killing DEs and selling my commands, which I just turned to Critical. I had to absolutely make sure I had everything I need since once I save my Critical, there's no going back.
Still, I'm happy to see my black Ryu Dragon ("Narga") and yellow Tyranto Rex ("Tigrex"). I'm going to recolor Tigrex to Orange because yellow looks AWFUL.
So, I finished the first world and I have a question or two. Most of it is in regards to the Spirits.
1. Is there a way to raise the rank of you Spirit after it has been created? I know that you can use more materials and an item to increase its starting rank/level when you create it, but after you create it does it remain the rank that it was assigned when it was first created? I guess I don't quite understand how these spirits work yet.
2. I've also noticed that you can create more than one of the same type of Spirit and use both in battle. Do the same Spirits have dual links as well? Or is the only reason to have multiples of Spirits is to stack specific abilities?
1. Is there a way to raise the rank of you Spirit after it has been created? I know that you can use more materials and an item to increase its starting rank/level when you create it, but after you create it does it remain the rank that it was assigned when it was first created? I guess I don't quite understand how these spirits work yet.
2. I've also noticed that you can create more than one of the same type of Spirit and use both in battle. Do the same Spirits have dual links as well? Or is the only reason to have multiples of Spirits is to stack specific abilities?
Velcro Fly
Member
Finished the main game on standard. Afterwards I even finished getting all dives to A rank. I think I'm up to about 9 trophies so far. My next project is going to be doing special portals. Then it will be getting some good dream eaters. Then I'll do the secret boss and secret portals. I'm 32 hours into this file and I feel like I have a ton more to do, including playing the game again on proud at the very least. I struggled on some bosses at the end but I feel that not going into the fight blind next time will help out quite a bit.
Wolf Akela
Member
Nope, the rank stays the same. Depending on the recipe you use, you might even need to use 500% of the materials required. Risky Wind forecast gives +1 to all spirits created that day. The rest is just using more materials (150%, 200%, 300%, 500%). S rank (star) is the highest.
I dunno about #2, but I know you can't have more than one of each AR DE. You're wasting EXP/LP/abilities by having two of the same if it worked though. Different DEs give you different unlockable abilities. You also don't want to overlap. For example, Frootz Kat gives 5 each of Attack and Magic Haste which is the max. You're wasting a DE slot by having another Frootz Kat.
Infinite flowmotion wall jump + super jump ruined platforming in the entire game for me. I don't even care to go back to my clear save and revision worlds anymore. The entire thing is just ruined because it's like playing the game with cheats on or something. Terrible.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up!
Meccanical
Member
Infinite flowmotion wall jump + super jump ruined platforming in the entire game for me. I don't even care to go back to my clear save and revision worlds anymore. The entire thing is just ruined because it's like playing the game with cheats on or something. Terrible.
Duckroll...why didn't you just...I don't know...not use it?
Why don't I play a game with one hand? It would make it harder too!!!!!! I guess that negates any and all complaint about any poor difficulty design in any game! If one-hand is still too easy, play it BLINDFOLDED!! OMG!
Gimme a break. Flowmotion is a shit system that invalidates any incentive to look forward to getting skills like high-jump, glide, etc. It basically ruined the platforming progression for the game. It's a fact.
Meccanical
Member
So let me repeat my question, why didn't you not use it?
Shotlock made BBS to easy, guess what, I didn't use it.
I don't get you, man.
It's not about making something easy. It's about how systems are designed and built around a game. Maybe you don't care about that stuff, I do. I used every single system in BbS. It was fun as fuck. KH3D is a clusterfuck of half baked ideas and poor design that survives on two things: the excellent command system, and the nice new worlds. Everything else is either mediocre or plain bad. Flowmotion being one of the biggest offenders.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
Regardless, it doesn't make it not a poor design decision. I like some aspects of flownotion, but it ruins the world exploration and platforming, which is kind of puzzling, because it seems like they put more effort into it in this game than any other Kingdom Hearts.
Edit: Accidentally a word.
Wolf Akela
Member
Because it's integral to the game? You can't even beat the game without using Flowmotion. It's not hard to even trigger Flowmo without meaning to, since if you keep dashing to dodge attacks you'll eventally latch on to bigger enemies or hit a wall.
Exactly. It really makes no sense how they allowed such a system to exist the way it did. They designed chests and areas to be accessed by platforming just like in previous games, and some would even require you to return later with Glide or High-Jump to get to them. But at the same time they put in a system where you can basically spam against a wall and get as high as possible with no penalty. What a crock of shit.
Aww man, that's one thing about KH1 that I really like (and to some extent BBS). You actually had to explore and search for chests, sometimes revisiting old areas, and they oftentimes had good items worth searching for (like keychains in KH1's case). It was just a touch of Metroidvania that I liked
I didn't like KH2 chests gathering because they were all in pretty obvious spots and required very little effort at all to obtain.
I didn't like KH2 chests gathering because they were all in pretty obvious spots and required very little effort at all to obtain.
badcrumble
Member
Flowmotion could be great if it had progression, since the actual controlling of it was neat, but yeah having every move unlocked from the start was horrendous.
Wolf Akela
Member
The one time I had genuine platforming fun with Flowmo was in the last world. There was this wall that you couldn't kick jump, and chests were located on really high platforms. However, sections of the wall protruded outwards from time to time, and you could kick jump off its sides.
Flowmo progression would be nice.
- Jumps starting small, then getting higher
- Kick Jump distance starts short, then lets you travel farther
- Kick Jump limited to maybe 3, until you can do it infinitely by doing a secret post-game quest
- Rail Slide getting faster
- Unlock Flowmo attacks one by one
Flowmo progression would be nice.
- Jumps starting small, then getting higher
- Kick Jump distance starts short, then lets you travel farther
- Kick Jump limited to maybe 3, until you can do it infinitely by doing a secret post-game quest
- Rail Slide getting faster
- Unlock Flowmo attacks one by one
Progression would be good, so would tying it with your control commands. For example, the super jump from Flowmotion should not be available until you have High Jump equipped. The Flowmotion flying move should not be available until you have Glide equipped. Etc. That sort of design would make it more cohesive with the other systems as well, and more fun, since it enhances moves you earn as you play the game.
badcrumble
Member
It would actually be especially neat if you could pick which Flowmo you wanted to unlock (let's say: unlocking a new one every time you lock a world), getting an opportunity to unlock the different ones based on how you play the most frequently, and providing some marginal additional replay value with the order of the progression, not to mention pushing each character to play more differently if you choose to unlock different attacks for each one.
That was another thing: Riku and Sora play WAY too similarly, compared to the excellent differentiation between the three characters in BBS.
I kinda wish they just kept the Command Charge system, and gave them both unique Finishing Moves and Command Styles. Sora would get all the regular "heroic" ones, and Riku would get the dark ones. A much more extreme version of Terra vs Ventus. I was really pretty disappointed with the variety of commands in the game in general, and how boring most of the attacks were. There was never anything really crazy awesome in KH3D compared to the end-game stuff you get in BbS.
CookedChocobo
Member
Seems you hold exploration and platforming to imaginary high standards, why can't you just enjoy a break from the usual KH platforming/exploration?
I for one, enjoyed traveling with flowmotion.....it's a nice change of pace and was pretty fun for me to just flowmotion to one area to another.
Huh? You don't seem to understand the actual problem here. It's not about any standard. The levels were designed a certain way, and there were specific routes to get to certain chests. But when you put Flowmotion into the mix, the incentive to actually platform well is totally invalidated. That is poor design - when you create one system which completely overwrites the point of something else.
reggieandTFE
Member
This is my first Kingdom Hearts game besides the GBA card game that I think I played most of the way through. It's also my first Japanese RPG in a while. That being said...what the hell is going on? I'm touching a spirit in my living room to gain affection points, the menu is insane to look at and I have no idea why I have to drop or not drop. Despite this stuff, it's kinda fun to not be following rote Western RPG mechanics where I play a ranged or stealth character every time and the music and worlds are great.
CookedChocobo
Member
Oh okay, you're saying that flowmotion basically made the other abilities/options that were given to you to enhance your platforming, useless?
Right, it completely takes away the excitement and joy of finally finding a chest with a new movement ability, or unlocking it later in the game, because Flowmotion already allows you to do the same shit right from the start of the game. It also makes exploring for chests really disappointing because even if you can see that they bothered to design a route to a chest and it requires you to go up a cloud, jump on timed platforms, etc, none of that is really required most of the time because if there's a wall below that higher area, you just spam Flowmotion and you can jump up regardless of height.
That sort of design is just bad.
I don't really get this complaint about KH1 (I'm not singling you out b/c I've seen other mention it too). I've never had any issue with the "platforming" mechanics of KH1. In fact, I really liked it.
CookedChocobo
Member
Oh, I understand your point then. Guess it did indeed ruin that part of the Kingdom Hearts series...
Oh well lol.....Traveling with flowmotion is too fun.
The only knock I really had against flowmotion is that they gave you everything right away.
I think a more customizable flowmotion, as well as a progression system for it would be superb though.
It's a great start though, considering from their interviews it sounded like they intended for it to be somewhat gamebreaking as an experiment. The refinements on the system should be great in the next edition of the game for sure.
I personally don't want to see it refined. I want to see it gone. Trash all the KH3D systems, bring back all the BbS systems they removed. Suddenly the game is great again.
I'd rather see them fuse the good of DDD and BbS and make a game that plays off the combat systems of BbS, and the level design, scale, and pace of movement of DDD. I want to see something bettter than both rather than going back to the same.
If I wanted to play the same game, I would just keep playing BbS.
I think when you play Kingdom Hearts, the first impression you get isn't that it's a great platforming game. The camera controls for all the iterations that have been in game since the PS2 have been severely lacking when needed to properly orient yourself when playing, and even then, the character physics don't lend itself to having tight platforming controls.
But I agree. I want to see them fuse the good of 3D and BbS and make a game that plays off the combat systems of BbS, and the level design, scale, and pace of movement of DDD. I want to see something bettter than both rather than going back to the same.
That means, first you take all the new gameplay systems in KH3D, and you throw them in the trash can. Then you bring all the BbS gameplay systems which were removed back. The only good thing about KH3D is the size of the environments and the creativity of the worlds. Everything else? Bad. Flowmotion bad. Dream Eaters bad. Link Points bad. Dream Eater minigames bad. I guess the Dive mode was okay. The only inoffensive new gameplay system in KH3D.
Yeah, I just got the game two days ago and I have about 3 hours logged so far and I already find Flowmotion to be pretty ridiculous. In Sora's Traverse Town there's a huge environment with colored grind rails and presents everywhere. One grind rail leads to an exit while the others lead to treasure chests and such. I just wall kicked all over the place to find the chests and when I decided to proceed I just wall kicked right from below the green rail and auto-landed on the tail end of the rail. That's definitely some questionable "platforming"! They should have put an endurance meter on that shit or at least allow you to EARN an infinite Flowmotion ability.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
I could actually live with a system like that, where Flowmotion is built by dealing damage in combat.
thetechkid
Member
Platforming and exploring in the series was never fun in the other games, Flowmotion made roaming the maps bearable. I'd rather they keep Flowmotion in the games and get rid of the platforming you had to do in the other games.
But I agree. I want to see them fuse the good of 3D and BbS and make a game that plays off the combat systems of BbS, and the level design, scale, and pace of movement of DDD. I want to see something bettter than both rather than going back to the same.
That means, first you take all the new gameplay systems in KH3D, and you throw them in the trash can. Then you bring all the BbS gameplay systems which were removed back. The only good thing about KH3D is the size of the environments and the creativity of the worlds. Everything else? Bad. Flowmotion bad. Dream Eaters bad. Link Points bad. Dream Eater minigames bad. I guess the Dive mode was okay. The only inoffensive new gameplay system in KH3D.
I mean, these are just our opinions, but I think that going by all those "What you'll see in DDD will give you a glimpse of where the future of the games are headed" quotes we've seen in interviews, Flowmotion is gonna be here to stay. I personally like it, but I think the abilities of flowmotion should have a sense of progression, scalability, and limitation to the system instead of letting you be god right off the bat, which is what I thought was really poor of the implementation of it.
I really liked the sense of mobility and control over your position in a battlefield that flowmotion allows, and it really added an incredible amount of fluidity and speed to the battle system, allowing use of both your character and your environment in combat. It's in this sense that I really enjoyed the pacing of fights a lot more over any other game (My brain had more fun, while I critically like the depth of BbS more) simply because it moved better, and let the environment be a part of your battles. It's a good idea in concept, but I think it can use a ton of tuning to not make it as overpowered as it was. I think a better combo system revolving around a fusion of all those elements would be much better than having it be either the environment, or using commands. More chaining between the two would be much better.
Given the interviews that have discussed flowmotion, I honestly think that for their first implementation of flowmotion, they purposefully designed it to be somewhat gamebreaking on purpose (which I believe is stated in an Iwata Asks), and to have this game be a more experimental ground to test and get a feel for what they want to do next, and not have the current implementation be the de facto face and function of flowmotion.
I also agree; I did not care for the dream eaters either. I thought the idea of having different ways to progress both companions and main character was a good one, but not executed well enough in this game because link points were a complete drag and were just in general, kind of dumb. What I really would like to see are more customizable party members though, and to have them you know, just gain experience like you do. Sure you can do different talent trees to give you the illusion of progression, but just the way it was handled in this game was not good, which I think can easily be fixed in the next game (not in the form of dream eaters obv.). The link points and forced minigames to grind for them really brought down any interest I ever had in them.
As far as BbS combat goes, I also think it would be nice if the variety brought by each of the 3 characters was somehow carried over to the next game in the franchise. Each character played differently enough to not really feel the same, and even in that aspect alone I would just like if (unless you control a shitload of people next game) you were able to customize your combat style more along the lines of what BbS brought to the table. I felt like I had more options in BBS.
Just in general, I think DDD feels like the most experimental game of the series so far because it feels like they decided to use this game as their testing bed for the future rather than heavily polish and bring back old systems, first.
Also, I hope pressing triangle to win never comes back.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
I think the Flowmotion in DDD is in it's infancy for the series. There are some basics there, but I think it can be fixed for the next game in the series. Using the environment for additional attacks is pretty awesome, but it got fairly redundant.
That said, I really do hope they keep the Command Deck and bring back the customized attacks from BbS.
I disagree with Duckracer, and thought the levels were kinda barren in DDD, at least so far. Only on the second ring of worlds. It felt like a lot of backtracking and stuff. I'm sure that's more of a limitation of the hardware rather than just lazy programming.
That said, I really do hope they keep the Command Deck and bring back the customized attacks from BbS.
I disagree with Duckracer, and thought the levels were kinda barren in DDD, at least so far. Only on the second ring of worlds. It felt like a lot of backtracking and stuff. I'm sure that's more of a limitation of the hardware rather than just lazy programming.
CookedChocobo
Member
I pray QTEs are never in another Square Enix game ever again lol...well, during battles at least.
Vermillion
Banned
See, I'm cool with Flowmotion because... fuck going back for treasure chests. It's an ARPG, not Metroid. After I've visited the worlds already, having to find more chests isn't the greatest incentive to go back, nor a fun one.
That's just me, though.
That's just me, though.
I can agree with a lot of those points in a general sense, but I'm really just turned off by how the system was represented in KH3D that I don't really want to see it ever again. While they might have long term plans for the system while making the game, let's not forget that KH3D is an under-performer in terms of both sales and critical reception. The feedback from reviews and from fans are much more lukewarm compared to BbS, and the game sold a fraction of what BbS did. These factors could also influence their direction moving forward. I won't be sad at all if they go back to the drawing board completely to find different ways to make movement more dynamic and exciting, because the system here was just junk imo. Plus, they always have the excuse that the system can't carry over to the real world because KH3D was all dream anyway. Lolz.
If they want to put a broken-ass system in a retail game as a form of rushed and unpolished beta testing, I think they deserve all the scorn they get for the system not working. Zero sympathy whatsoever.
It just feels like a big wasted opportunity to me. They had a chance to impress fans with how they would handle a brand new game on a brand new platform in a quick dev cycle, and instead they just made a disappointing unpolished filler entry which reinforces that S-E is unable to deliver polished products on shorter dev cycles. Just kinda sad all round.
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FUCK YES! GODDAMN KH2!!!!! Lol. So glad that garbage is completely gone now.