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[badcrumble]

To be fair and to extend the metaphor, the KH story is already basically *about* jumping sharks (and throwing in every cliché trope possible). DDD was like a shark jumping over a giant shark made up of a bunch of smaller sharks.

And in that light, DDD was almost inevitable. I accepted it as the first genuinely 'camp' entry in the KH series, in the sense that it dove headlong into how ridiculous the KH story generally is (clones! alternate selves! possession! backstabbing!) and embraced it.

(But yes, introducing time travel into almost any narrative = stupid and DDD was no exception).

 

[zeemumu]

True. Riku pretty much had to learn how to handle the darkness since he kept getting consumed by it.

Yeah, it hung around because he felt bad about his betrayal in KH1.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Howdy ho fellow nerds,

As my first post to gaf, I found it only fitting that it be in the community thread for the franchise that got me into gaming that wasn't the Budokai games. So... There ya go.

In all seriousness, I recently found this fantastic top 10 video about what Kingdom Hearts 3 "needs", and wanted more KH fans to see it
check it out

Nails basically all his points. Gushed about it a bit in the comments myself

Yeah, this guy gets it. Talks about many issues I have been whining about. Honestly I expect KH3 to be a mess. Enjoyable mess perhaps but a mess anyway. I feel it's going to be the MGS4 of the saga. I'll probably love it but it will be a game that is going to be crushed by it's own weight.

I think it's sad that the original KH team didn't get to do the final game. I know people really love BBS (I do too) but KH3 is the game in the series that will have a big impact how the series will be seen going foreward and if the Osaka team was to make a full console KH game I kinda wish it was entirely their own thing like BBS was. I'm probably not making much sense right now but I fear for the balance of gameplay for KH3 and how it will feel. BBS had some GREAT ideas and was a solid start from which to build upon. Then DDD came out and it was a step back in many ways. I know the game was a bit ''rushed'' and Nomura pretty openly talks about it like it was just a test game for some ideas for KH3 (I have a bad feeling about this tbh).

I think KH3 should be kind of a mesh between KH2 and BBS with few original ideas and balanced well to bring a satisfying combat with just enough flashiness. I fear we will get something like DDD on steroids with flash turned to the max, all the bad things from KH2/DDD combat turned to 11 ect.

Honestly while it's way too early to judge the Disney Rides are kinda the type of stuff I'd rather see less. The keyblade modes are the kind of things I'd love to see more (IF they are balanced well enough that is). Drive forms while not perfect were a great addition and really fun. The ''dark forms'' or whatever they were called for Riku is the opposite. All flash, terrible balancing.

Here is one prediction for you: KH3 rooms will be HUGE but empthy. The same way some of the DDD were but to extreme. Just the existence of the huge rides point to that. Goodbye dungeony designs like Agrabah/Hollow Bastion

edit: oh, and before I forget! Welcome to GAF Jake.

edit2: one thing I do not agree with the video however is the ''Sora should be a demigod right from the start''. I mean, yes, it would make a ton of sense. From a story point and reference to previous games he should be. But from the gameplay standpoint I think it would be a terrible idea lest we are going for some type of Musou Kingdom Hearts 3. Sora needs to be relatively powerless at the beginning. The point being exactly what the guy says in the video: escalation. One of the best things about RPG is seeing your weak characters become strong at the end. I know previously there have been ''convinient'' reasons why Sora gets a power reset ect. But I don't really think it's needed. I think people are willing to forgive it as being a silly videogame even if you just throw the most basic elemental spells and few keyblade modes with the classic basic 3 hit combo at the start rather than have him throwing Zantetsukens and Hell Firagas or whatever at the enemies at the first 10 minutes. I know you can still escalate even if you start out strong and have him end up as a god at the end but I think stuff like that only works if the game is short like BBS one character campaing. If the game would be your basic 30 hour KH game I want to start slow, build up and finish with a real sense of powering up rather than have the 20 last hours be going from a walking holocaust to walking holocaust v.2.

 

[badcrumble]

Yeah, this guy gets it. Talks about many issues I have been whining about. Honestly I expect KH3 to be a mess. Enjoyable mess perhaps but a mess anyway. I feel it's going to be the MGS4 of the saga. I'll probably love it but it will be a game that is going to be crushed by it's own weight.

I think it's sad that the original KH team didn't get to do the final game. I know people really love BBS (I do too) but KH3 is the game in the series that will have a big impact how the series will be seen going foreward and if the Osaka team was to make a full console KH game I kinda wish it was entirely their own thing like BBS was. I'm probably not making much sense right now but I fear for the balance of gameplay for KH3 and how it will feel. BBS had some GREAT ideas and was a solid start from which to build upon. Then DDD came out and it was a step back in many ways. I know the game was a bit ''rushed'' and Nomura pretty openly talks about it like it was just a test game for some ideas for KH3 (I have a bad feeling about this tbh).

I think KH3 should be kind of a mesh between KH2 and BBS with few original ideas and balanced well to bring a satisfying combat with just enough flashiness. I fear we will get something like DDD on steroids with flash turned to the max, all the bad things from KH2/DDD combat turned to 11 ect.

Honestly while it's way too early to judge the Disney Rides are kinda the type of stuff I'd rather see less. The keyblade modes are the kind of things I'd love to see more (IF they are balanced well enough that is). Drive forms while not perfect were a great addition and really fun. The ''dark forms'' or whatever they were called for Riku is the opposite. All flash, terrible balancing.

Here is one prediction for you: KH3 rooms will be HUGE but empthy. The same way some of the DDD were but to extreme. Just the existence of the huge rides point to that. Goodbye dungeony designs like Agrabah/Hollow Bastion

edit: oh, and before I forget! Welcome to GAF Jake.

edit2: one thing I do not agree with the video however is the ''Sora should be a demigod right from the start''. I mean, yes, it would make a ton of sense. From a story point and reference to previous games he should be. But from the gameplay standpoint I think it would be a terrible idea lest we are going for some type of Musou Kingdom Hearts 3. Sora needs to be relatively powerless at the beginning. The point being exactly what the guy says in the video: escalation. One of the best things about RPG is seeing your weak characters become strong at the end. I know previously there have been ''convinient'' reasons why Sora gets a power reset ect. But I don't really think it's needed. I think people are willing to forgive it as being a silly videogame even if you just throw the most basic elemental spells and few keyblade modes with the classic basic 3 hit combo at the start rather than have him throwing Zantetsukens and Hell Firagas or whatever at the enemies at the first 10 minutes. I know you can still escalate even if you start out strong and have him end up as a god at the end but I think stuff like that only works if the game is short like BBS one character campaing. If the game would be your basic 30 hour KH game I want to start slow, build up and finish with a real sense of powering up rather than have the 20 last hours be going from a walking holocaust to walking holocaust v.2.

Agreed with everything you say. BUT I want to argue that what he was saying about Sora starting off strong is that this is also a way to communicate the scale of the threat - in the sense that he should feel powerful and then the enemies in the game should feel like an order of magnitude more threatening than the ones from KH1/2 so that Sora's greater ability to combo etc. is only just barely enough to keep him afloat.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if whatever plot element removes Sora's KH2 clothing also removes a lot of his abilities, and I'm fine with that. He's also gonna start off with the Kingdom Key and no Ultima Weapon even though I've gotten him three of those, and that's fine.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Agreed with everything you say. BUT I want to argue that what he was saying about Sora starting off strong is that this is also a way to communicate the scale of the threat - in the sense that he should feel powerful and then the enemies in the game should feel like an order of magnitude more threatening than the ones from KH1/2 so that Sora's greater ability to combo etc. is only just barely enough to keep him afloat.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if whatever plot element removes Sora's KH2 clothing also removes a lot of his abilities, and I'm fine with that. He's also gonna start off with the Kingdom Key and no Ultima Weapon even though I've gotten him three of those, and that's fine.

Maybe they will go for SOTN and have Sora be an unstoppable juggernaut for the first few minutes before Xehanort conviniently strips him of all his powers :lol.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

One last thing: I really don't get what people are talking about (our own Dreamdrop IIRC, that guy in the video) when they are saying Star Wars (and Marvel I guess?) wouldn't fit because of ''expansive mythology'' or whatever. I mean we are talking about Kingdom Hearts here. All the world in the games are non canon by default outside of the games. Any Star Wars world would have no connections to the whole mythology outside of what the game chooses to present (well, Disney deemed 99% of SW material non canon now anyway :lol).

 

[botty]

I feel like the OG Kingdom Hearts team told the story they wanted to tell with KH1 CoM and KH2.

 

[Malyse]

I feel like the OG Kingdom Hearts team told the story they wanted to tell with KH1 CoM and KH2.

Naw. They namedrop Xehanort a half dozen times, meaning that they had planned on BbS during development.

One last thing: I really don't get what people are talking about (our own Dreamdrop IIRC, that guy in the video) when they are saying Star Wars (and Marvel I guess?) wouldn't fit because of ''expansive mythology'' or whatever. I mean we are talking about Kingdom Hearts here. All the world in the games are non canon by default outside of the games. Any Star Wars world would have no connections to the whole mythology outside of what the game chooses to present (well, Disney deemed 99% of SW material non canon now anyway :lol).

What part of Star Wars gets put in? Luke? Anakin? Episode VII? No matter what gets picked, someone will be disappointed. I for one would love to see something from KoTOR show up (Revan superboss for plz). It would also be cool to drop in on the Clone Wars. Plus how do you tell any of the films in a way that would make a complete story arc for Kingdom Hearts? These are trilogies and are very much the sum of their parts. A New Hope doesn't stand alone in a satisfying way, nor does The Phantom Menace. But it would require either A: we spend dozens of hours in Star Wars based Worlds (plural), or B: They cut massive swaths of the story out to make it concise enough to fit. And given the past, the second is more likely than the first. Cut to pieces star wars wouldn't be very good TBH. No matter how you cut it, it would be difficult as fuck to make work. Especially in KH3, which is what I've said I don't want. I've no issue with Marvel and Star Wars in KH, but it should be post clean slate, Xehanort plot wrapped, put a bow on it, let's go dat new shit KH4, NOT shoehorned forcibly into KH3.

 

[Psxphile]

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if whatever plot element removes Sora's KH2 clothing also removes a lot of his abilities, and I'm fine with that.

Bonus if it involves him being blown across a room into a wall during a tense escape sequence.

 

[Nohar]

Well, considering what Xehanort wants to do with him, it wouldn't be surprising that,

Spoiler

after a failed attempt to make Sora his vessel

, Sora ends up downgraded.

But, honestly, I think they won't bother, and give us a level one Sora right off the bat, without any abilities, and without any explanations.

In any case, it will be interesting to see what the game really has to offer and what it will really look (I don't think the videos we saw so far are to be trusted, so many things can and will change before the release).
I wouldn't mind if they did a reverse KH2 intro: we begin with Sora as the playable character, but after giving back his heart to Ventus, the strain puts him into a coma, and Ventus becomes the main playable character, replacing Sora for the rest of the game.

Spoiler

That would also allow Xehanort to hijack his body without too many problems, thanks to his weakened heart.

Honestly, that could be a nice call-back to KH2, but in practice it would take too long, since they need to rescue Aqua first. So I guess it would work more if it was incorporated to the main scenario, and not relegated to the prolonged prologue sequence.

 

[BatDan]

Still no release date for 2.5...
Will they announce it at E3?

 

[Malyse]

3D has already justified Sora's level reset...

 

[Nohar]

3D reseted his level... So what? Will he forget everything he learned during this episode too, because "it was a dream"?

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Still no release date for 2.5...
Will they announce it at E3?

Maybe SE forgot all about 2.5 cause the whole company is excited about Soul Suspect.

That's my new theory anyway.

 

[zeemumu]

3D has already justified Sora's level reset...

Currently there's no justification between 3D and KH3, though. Both Sora and Riku should start that game at master level. They won't have the flowmotion powers but everything else that they learned would remain intact. After all, that's kind of the whole reason they were in the dream worlds anyway. If they forgot everything that they learned in 3D then that mark of mastery exam was entirely worthless. And they can't pull a Metroid with Sora's brain since they already did that in CoM and KH2.

Maybe they'll edit the AP system to have all of his past abilities from the beginning but make AP really hard to come by so you have to manage your abilities in a way that suits your combat preference instead of having them all active all the time.

 

[Protagonist Jake]

3D has already justified Sora's level reset...

So therefore he should be the level he was the end of 3D in KH3.

This is why I liked the idea of Kairi being the tutorial character, and building up to playing OP Sora and Riku, and her now as well for the rest of the game.
Or even better, just copy and paste how Yakuza 4 did it, and youre good to go.

The series has become worst than Metroid with these excuses for level resets at this rate, so id rather it not happen again.

 

[botty]

Naw. They namedrop Xehanort a half dozen times, meaning that they had planned on BbS during development.

At the time, Xehanort was just the apprentice's name. Also, pretty much everything in KH1 is wrapped up in KH2; most importantly, Sora/Kairi/Riku all being back together.

 

[badcrumble]

I feel like the OG Kingdom Hearts team told the story they wanted to tell with KH1 CoM and KH2.

this is a really really bizarre theory with no justification

 

[badcrumble]

As for putting Star Wars or Marvel into KH3 - let's remember that it doesn't have to be "let's retell an extremely abridged and simplified version of the film's story with Heartless and/or the Organization shoehorned into it" and that plenty of KH worlds have been exceptions to that. It can just be "let's visit this world." In that sense, something simple like Dagobah (visiting Yoda for some training) could work well for Star Wars, or visiting Tatooine for a replay of the Jabba's Palace sequence.

As for Marvel, I think it'd be simple enough to just visit Asgard (maybe during the Dark Elf invasion).

Involving either of those doesn't need to bring their entire mythology into play any more than depicting Beauty and the Beast means you need to depict Gaston or her weird inventor dad.

 

[badcrumble]

But yeah, I mean, KH1 originally started out with Maleficent as the main bad guy and Ansem SoD was only added later in development, but you don't see me bitching about how omg nothing after KH1 Hollow Bastion is ~~~True Kingdom Hearts~~~

Likewise, yeah, KH2's elements pointing to post-KH2 games were likely added later in development because you figure out how to finish up your story before you figure out how to tease the next chapter, but: those elements are still in the actual game that got released and it is clear that they wanted more KH games after KH2.

 

[botty]

this is a really really bizarre theory with no justification

Well, as I mentioned a while back... Disney were the ones who came to Nomura and his team requesting a sequel after KH3. No surprise given the success of the series. Also looking at how Kingdom Hearts began (three friends seeking adventure, and wanting to leave their home) it really comes full circle, and delivers a powerful message at the end of Kingdom Hearts 2 when they all are back on Destiny Islands and realize being home together was what mattered. By the end of KH 2 Riku redeems himself, Sora and Kairi become complete beings, and both of the major evils that plagued the worlds had been destroyed.

Of course, because Disney wanted sequels, new concepts had to be introduced, new characters needed to be created, and the story had to be expanded in order to make it seem as if Sora's goals/tasks had yet to be completed. None of which really had anything to do with what began with what we saw in Kingdom Hearts 1, and only created numerous retcons and plotholes.

I really don't see how the theory is a stretch when many people in the fan base feel like the story is being made up as it goes along now.

 

[badcrumble]

In the sense of saying "what you thought was happening in that previous game wasn't ACTUALLY what was happening," KH2 is as guilty of retconning as DDD with the Ansem/Xehanort switch.

I'm happy they kept going past KH2 because BBS likely has the strongest writing and gameplay in the series. *shrug*

DDD's a mess in tons of ways and I'm not a huge fan of it, but I'd rather just say "I don't think it's particularly good and I think it added some bad ideas to the story" than to say "it's not a TRUE kingdom hearts game," whatever that means. It certainly lived up to earlier criticisms/stereotypes of KH being all about having a needlessly convoluted story, though.

 

[botty]

In the sense of saying "what you thought was happening in that previous game wasn't ACTUALLY what was happening," KH2 is as guilty of retconning as DDD with the Ansem/Xehanort switch.

I'm happy they kept going past KH2 because BBS likely has the strongest writing and gameplay in the series. *shrug*

DDD's a mess in tons of ways and I'm not a huge fan of it, but I'd rather just say "I don't think it's particularly good and I think it added some bad ideas to the story" than to say "it's not a TRUE kingdom hearts game," whatever that means. It certainly lived up to earlier criticisms/stereotypes of KH being all about having a needlessly convoluted story, though.

The Ansem/Xehanort switch was actually quite seamless. In the end, it was just a name switch, really. I think the only major plot hole in KH2 is Yen Sid redecorating.

 

[Protagonist Jake]

this is a really really bizarre theory with no justification

Especially since we know Nomura has literally been making it up as the series went on.
Hence why KH1 Final Mix added in the unknown fight and scene, and why the Secret Endings have literally all been concept trailers (Hence why they just decided to not do BBS volume 2 or w/e despite it being in the FM secret ending for BBS clear as day).

In case anyone wasnt aware, this series is quite humorously unorganized at times

 

[Village]

Howdy ho fellow nerds,

As my first post to gaf, I found it only fitting that it be in the community thread for the franchise that got me into gaming that wasn't the Budokai games. So... There ya go.

In all seriousness, I recently found this fantastic top 10 video about what Kingdom Hearts 3 "needs", and wanted more KH fans to see it
check it out

Nails basically all his points. Gushed about it a bit in the comments myself

10) eh... I dunno

9) Kinda but no

8)This is good,tie it up.

7) while I understand what the guy is saying, I don't think Sora being the best t fighting is the point. Sure he gets stronger, but his strong suit is more existential matter of that heart at that kind of thing. Riku is the strong guy. Sure start him off strong, but he shouldn't be a god or what not, his power comes from the heart and his friends. Maleficent isn't ever gonna go, dude forgets that this is a disney thing. Also Disney is probably never going to kill off their dudes.

6) I don't give a shit about a hub world I find it pointless.

5) While thats a good Idea, I wouldn't mind him being dumb. If there are other people playable if its just him like KH2, it might get annoying. But if you get to play a smart guy , possibly riku or kiri then sure he can be dumb.

4) YEP.

3.5) YEP!!!!

3) yeah sure.

2)YESSS!!! Give me my damn jetch boss fight with tidus.

1)Eh Sure.

 

[Malyse]

Currently there's no justification between 3D and KH3, though. Both Sora and Riku should start that game at master level. They won't have the flowmotion powers but everything else that they learned would remain intact. After all, that's kind of the whole reason they were in the dream worlds anyway. If they forgot everything that they learned in 3D then that mark of mastery exam was entirely worthless. And they can't pull a Metroid with Sora's brain since they already did that in CoM and KH2.

Maybe they'll edit the AP system to have all of his past abilities from the beginning but make AP really hard to come by so you have to manage your abilities in a way that suits your combat preference instead of having them all active all the time.

So therefore he should be the level he was the end of 3D in KH3.

This is why I liked the idea of Kairi being the tutorial character, and building up to playing OP Sora and Riku, and her now as well for the rest of the game.
Or even better, just copy and paste how Yakuza 4 did it, and youre good to go.

The series has become worst than Metroid with these excuses for level resets at this rate, so id rather it not happen again.

Sora got sent into catatonia by Master Xehanort, plus he was trapped in Ventus's nightmare and defeated by Riku. Either could be used to rationalize a level one reset. Plus failing the Mark of Master could be enough excuse to say "you need more formal training" AKA start learning how to properly wield from the start. Keep in mind that Sora and Riku still have yet to reach the level of turning the keyblade into vehicles or armor. Plus all development in 3D took place in a Dream State. The game has already justified Sora's level one reset for KH3.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

It can just be "let's visit this world." In that sense, something simple like Dagobah (visiting Yoda for some training)

How awesome would it be if Yen Sid sends Sora to train at his ''old friend'' in another world and we got to see the Dagobah scene pretty much 1-1 except with Sora instead of Luke. Have Gummi ship malfunction and Yoda starts ripping it apart with Donald getting pissed off :lol.

Would it be too much for Sora to learn ''Light push'' ability? .

As for how I would make a whole traditional KH style world out of Star Wars? Well I think there is really only one logical place to set it in if we don't want to do multi location style (tho even that is possible but I don't think it is neccessary at all. The place would have to be Death Star from Episode 4. First movie for the first appearance in the series, the most iconic location possible and it is a place where all the important characters from the movie are together at one location: Solo, Luke, Leia, Obi-Wan, Vader, Chewie and the droids are all there along with stormtroopers. Also I have talked about this scenario before but here I go again:

The world would function kinda like Monstro where the party is more forced to land than actually it being their original destination. At the middle point of your gummi route you start hearing this as TIE fighters attack the gummi ship and the gummi route changes to a traditional Star Wars type black space with stars. You get some dogfighting with the TIE fighters instead of heartless ships (bam, that's another iconic SW thing in right there, space battles).

At the end of the route the Death Star tractor beam grabs the ship just like in the movie and the party is thrown into prison by Vader and troopers to wait for questioning. While they rot in the cell they get busted out by Luke/Han/OW while searching for Leia. Here they will give a brief exposition about where they are and about the empire being the bad guys and who Vader, the guy who captured Sora+friends is and that they weren't trying to free them but Leia instead so they just bump into each other by accident.

Here it is important however to have the CHARACTERS, not the plot take importance. The whole plot of the original movie IS NOT IMPORTANT. It really is not, all that is important is the situation that the characters are in and how they react to it naturally without trying to tell the whole story of the movie, the idea here indeed is that the Death Star is the only location that appears (plus the space part) and anything that has happened in the movie outside that is thrown into the garbage unless it is absolutely needed to as a reference.

Now this next thing is just a silly idea by me but one fun way to tie the world into the overarchin KH plot (as this is a forced world, not something Sora was planning to do) is for Obi-Wan to actually be one of the rare characters to recognize the Keyblade and it's importance (kinda like Triton in KH1) as the whole Jedi-Keyblade thing are basically kinda the same thing. You could have him tell that he actually met Xehanort (or Eraqus, Yen Sid, whatever) as a young man or something while YX was travelling the worlds and have them share some small conversation about it and perhaps reveal a little bit about Xehanort when he was a young man. Make him kinda have Xehanort take Vaders place in the way he talked about him in the movies. Maybe Xehanort was indeed a great warrior and a good friend back in the day or something. Also this would make the point that X was a respected Keyblade Master back in the day. Anyway this is just a silly idea that you could put in there, not important at all.

Before throwing Leia into the mix you should have the main trio, OW+Han+Luke show their personality and have time to do some scenes before rushing with the plot. Characters and the way they react to you is the most important part about the cameos. Then after you have accomplished that you have them rescue Leia like in the movie. Boss fight against the garbage dump monster (or have it be a heartless in there but similar in that it's hiding). Now, Obi-Wan loses to Vader in a duel but one of the big questions I have is: should Vader be a boss? It kinda could feel a little forced but then again you kinda... need to have a Vader boss if ya know what I mean. Anyway Vader blocks the parties way, they defeat him and escape. Have some cool space battle part 2 where you are working alongside Millenium Falcon. The end. Returning to Death Star later on to gather treasure chests and whatnot has to just be passed as neccessary Vidya Gaem sillyness.

Credits scene is Luke blowing up Death Star. That is one way the world could be done and I do feel that Death Star (and new hope) is the perfect place to introduce the franchise to KH. You can basically go to many places after that if SW returns to the series, both sequel and prequel.

edit: One more thing: I before was very optimistic about SW making an appearance in KH3 but after the whole ''canon purge'' I do think things have changed. Not really because of KH appearance being canon, obviously it would be non canon by default but it is clear they have put a tight leash about how they will handle SW before ep7 comes out.

Then again seeing stuff like Rebels means it can't be THAT tight of a leash .

 

[Village]

Got two questions.

1) After Kh3 wraps up what it needs to. And lets say kh4 happen, would you like new protagonists with the old ones playing support characters?

2) why do you want Oswald in KH and how bad? Because everyone wants him don't question it.

3) Instead of a marvel world or whatever mess, would you like to see a npc. Like Dr,Strange teach you magic or something?

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Got two questions.

1) After Kh3 wraps up what it needs to. And lets say kh4 happen, would you like new protagonists with the old ones playing support characters?

2) why do you want Oswald in KH and how bad? Because everyone wants him don't question it.

3) Instead of a marvel world or whatever mess, would you like to see a npc. Like Dr,Strange teach you magic or something?

1) Hard to say. I think a new protagonist would be good for the series but then again Nomura has commented before that Sora would be the MC even after this ''saga'' but he might change his mind. I like Sora (when he is not a bumbling idiot, why is KH1 Sora the most human anyway when you'd think he would be the opposite since he is friggin 14) so I really can't say. If you put a gun to my head I'll say a new protag with NO CONNECTIONS TO EXISTING CHARACTERS WHATSOEVER for a fresh start.

2) No comment.

3) Sure. I do think Marvel would work best the way they use FF. Cameos without worlds. Not to say some worlds could be cool but as a cameo factory Marvel content would be incredible.

Have a summon or something:

 

[badcrumble]

Got two questions.

1) After Kh3 wraps up what it needs to. And lets say kh4 happen, would you like new protagonists with the old ones playing support characters?

2) why do you want Oswald in KH and how bad? Because everyone wants him don't question it.

3) Instead of a marvel world or whatever mess, would you like to see a npc. Like Dr,Strange teach you magic or something?

Those are three questions!

1 - I'd want the same overall cast of characters. Nomura's already said that once the Xehanort saga is done, Sora will still be the lead character. I think KH has done a good job of fleshing out its own cast of original characters more and more, which makes it less necessary to lean on Final Fantasy characters for having actual story significance (like the way that most of the assorted FF7/8 characters in KH1 were the folks booted out of Radiant Garden when it became Hollow Bastion). FF cameos aren't ever going away, but I think it'll make things easier if they don't have to be relied upon as plot-crucial NPCs and can instead be 100% about fun fanservice.

2 - I do not want Oswald in KH because who cares

3 - I'd prefer to see Asgard as a KH world, because it comes from Marvel but could easily be adapted into the KH mythology of multiple worlds and realms. KH is likely to use something popularized by the Disney-Marvel films already, if anything.

 

[Malyse]

Those are three questions!
2 - I do not want Oswald in KH because who cares

Disney cared enough about Oswald that they traded an actual human being for the rights to the character back. Oswald >>>>> you.

Got two questions.

1) After Kh3 wraps up what it needs to. And lets say kh4 happen, would you like new protagonists with the old ones playing support characters?

2) why do you want Oswald in KH and how bad? Because everyone wants him don't question it.

3) Instead of a marvel world or whatever mess, would you like to see a npc. Like Dr,Strange teach you magic or something?

1. You're stuck with Sora.

It means that Kingdom Hearts III will wrap up the story so far, right?

Nomura: That’s right. I’ve heard that some fans suppose that the series will probably end with KHIII, but the developing Kingdom Hearts series is being made with the intent that everything up until KHIII, which is to come, is the first part of an even bigger series. Sora is the hero of Kingdom Hearts, but the first part of the series, unfolding now, is the Xehanort saga. Hasn’t Xehanort always been the enemy since KHI?

I see. So then, KHIII will be the end of the Xehanort saga?

Nomura: If I had to, I’d say that’s the way to look at it. That’s why even if the Xehanort saga ends, there’s the possibility that a new adventure for Sora will begin.

So, it’s not that once Sora’s story is over the story of a new hero will begin, but that the series will always have Sora as the hero, isn’t it?

Nomura: Yeah. One of the concepts of the series is that the hero Sora isn’t some special being, but a normal boy. Sure, his heart is connected to Ventus and the others, but other than that, he’s a normal kid that could have come from anywhere, that hasn’t inherited anything from anyone. I want to make Sora a character that will give the player the feeling that even if I’m not some special being, I have the possibility buried inside of connecting with many others to accomplish things. In Birth by Sleep, I wish for all the fans to hope to see that Sora reappears. The secret cutscene is what symbolizes this, and so please work your way there, and wait for Sora’s role in the future.

2. I reject your question to answer another: How to put Oswald in KH.

I actually want him in KH3, but not in an active role until KH4. Basically, Sora, Mickey, and co are getting their collective asses beat by Xehanort's darknesses when suddenly out of nowhere Oswald has a Big Damn Heroes moment, keyblade in hand, and saves the day. Mickey is dumbstruck and Oswald tosses a "This doesn't mean I've forgiven you" as a parting line. When asked who it is, Mickey replies "My older brother". And that's the only time we see Oswald in KH3.

3. Superbosses and Arena Battles. Actually once they've sorted Xehanort, they can easily add Marvel into the mix.

"There are many worlds, but they share the same sky —
one sky, one destiny."

If Xehanort succeeds in reuniting the worlds into a new singular world (which would have the added benefits of excising the Gummy Ship as well as making a path for Open World gameplay, plus allowing the combined worlds concept to come to fruition) then dumping in a crisscrossed world would be NBD.

 

[botty]

How awesome would it be if Yen Sid sends Sora to train at his ''old friend'' in another world and we got to see the Dagobah scene pretty much 1-1 except with Sora instead of Luke. Have Gummi ship malfunction and Yoda starts ripping it apart with Donald getting pissed off :lol.

Would it be too much for Sora to learn ''Light push'' ability? .

wait..................a.........sec

this is good.

 

[Malyse]

It seems a consensus is forming. 3D really did do more harm than good.


I don't get Riku x Xion as far as fan-shipping goes. I mean, she's literally a femSora that resembles Kai-

...

That's messed up. Anyway, superior crack ship is Aqua x Vanitas and don't let anyone else tell you different!

 

[Falk]

No one said Lightning for KH4 protag in jest or out of spite yet?

GAF I never knew ye.

 

[badcrumble]

I'm actually not so sure that the Gummi Ship will make it into KH3, especially given that the keyblade-glider stuff has been established from BBS as a viable means of transit.

 

[Psxphile]

Also no one really likes Gummi Ships. They tolerate it, at best.

For that matter, I wasn't fond of Dream Dropping, either. But I'm not concerned about that ever returning. Keyblade riding is definitely the way to go, unless it has a boring mini-game attached to it that is. Just let me explore the map at my leisure, thanks.

 

[Nohar]

Gummi Ships in KH1 weren't very interesting. However, I liked the Gummi Ships fights in KH2.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Also no one really likes Gummi Ships. They tolerate it, at best.

I do . KH2 already had huge improvements, continue doing that and I welcome the return of Gummi. Tho they need to tie in some core game rewards for gummi missions ect. to actually keep players invested (only if the gummi sections are on par with KH2 or better, I wouldn't be a huge fan of FFX Chocobo Racing part 2.)

 

[zeemumu]

Sora got sent into catatonia by Master Xehanort, plus he was trapped in Ventus's nightmare and defeated by Riku. Either could be used to rationalize a level one reset. Plus failing the Mark of Master could be enough excuse to say "you need more formal training" AKA start learning how to properly wield from the start. Keep in mind that Sora and Riku still have yet to reach the level of turning the keyblade into vehicles or armor. Plus all development in 3D took place in a Dream State. The game has already justified Sora's level one reset for KH3.

You don't need to be a master to turn your keyblade into a vehicle and armor is its own separate entity. I feel like using the nightmare sequence in DDD to justify his level reset is a bit cheap. in KH1 he was new so it makes sense, in CoM Castle Oblivion wiped his memory, in KH2 his memory was wiped again and replaced with old ones, but he had been in stasis for a long time so it still makes some sense that he would be rusty. I think your theory of "you need more training" makes more sense but it would only work if KH3 picks up directly where DDD left off, and if Riku ends up being playable again there's going to be a crazy power gap between him and Sora.

 

[Seven Force]

The Attack of the Dreadnought and Broken/Ancient Highway levels in KHII complete justify the Gummi Ship's existence in the series.

 

[badcrumble]

Who cares if the level 1 reset is justified by the story or not, it's happening either way and the game would be worse without it.

 

[Nohar]

Well, in terms of power level, let's see how would the different characters be placed on a scale of 1 to 10 at the beginning of KH3 (please note that this is totally arbitrary, just speculation, and I'm basically doing this for fun).

• Sora 8/10
  
  Spoiler

  He wasn't recognized as a Keyblade Master by Yen Sid
  . It doesn't change the fact that, despite being completly self-taught, he is incredibly ressourceful, powerful, and is able to wield 2 keyblades at the same time, something only Roxas has been able to do. We could speculate that he is, somehow, reinforced by Ven's heart inside him. He is able to use most spells, though he can't use any Darkness-based spells. Still, he lacks discipline, he may be weaker to darkness that we initialy believed (I take for evidence Anti Form and the Anti Black Coat), and he did get turned into a Heartless at one point (even if it was by his own volition). And, well,
  Spoiler

  no need to mention what Xehanort wanted to do with him at the end of 3D
  .
  So, yeah, I would go for a 8/10. However, this rating could change drastically if he loses some of his powers when he will give Ven his heart back.
• Riku 8/10
  Was the one who should have inherited the Keyblade in the first place. Despite his errors, he managed to redeem himself, and is a Keyblade fighter on par with Sora.
  Spoiler

  Also, he got awarded the Keyblade master title by Yen Sid
  . On top of that, it was canonically established that he is now immune to the corrupting effect of Darkness, giving him a crucial edge. Thanks to his affinity to it, he is one the only characters able to use Darkness-based abilities and spells (the others being Xehanort and Terra, though the last one got corrupted). Overall, he is a force to be reckoned with.
• Kairi 1/10
  She is basically a trainee, with little to no combat experience. Of all the characters here, she is the only one who should begin at level one in KH3 (well, every character will begin at level one for gameplay reasons, but story-wise, she should be the only one). She should be able to stand her ground thanks to being a Heart Princess (something which will probably grant her powerful Light-based attacks).
  Spoiler

  Being trained by Yen Sid himself probably will help too
  . Finally, since she is a Princess of Heart, she should have a natural immunity to Darkness.
• Terra 6/10
  Powerful and trained by Eraqus, but wasn't able to finish his training, and got hijacked by Xehanort. Is able to use Darkness, but got corrupted by it. However, he still managed to defeat Xehanort at his prime, thanks to his armor animated by his rage. Badass.
• Ventus 5/10
  Quick and nimble, but still very young. Never finished his training, his heart was broken twice, and he spent a decade into catatonia. Even if he inherits some of the power of Roxas, Xion or Sora, and even if his body recovers quickly, he is nowhere near the power level of the others. However, contrary to Kairi, he has battle experience, and knows how to use a Keyblade.
• Aqua 8/10
  Keyblade master. Defeated Xehanort at his prime too (though his mind was a little cloudy when she did so). Excels in magic and survived in the Realm of Darkness, despite being surrounded by incredibly dangerous pureblood Heartless (dat beast Heartless... Brrrr).
• Spoiler

  Lea/Axel
  4/10
  Has plenty of battle experience, though this character doesn't know how to wield a Keyblade at all (and, well, I prefered
  Spoiler

  his Chakrams
  ... What a waste), and
  Spoiler

  got bested each single time he fought against a Keyblade wielder
  , hence the 4/10. Though, there is no doubt that this character will learn to master it rather quickly.
• Mickey 9/10
  Keyblade master? Check. One of the only character that Xehanort considers as a worthy opponent? Check. Able to use very powerful spells, including
  Spoiler

  Stopza
  ? Check. Never defeated in combat post-BBS (as far as we know it, anyway)? Check. Managed to escape the Realm of Darkness on his own (something that Aqua wasn't able to do)? Check.
• Donald & Goofy 3/10
  They don't wield Keyblades, but have plently of battle experience. They are more important as Sora's friends than as fighters.
• Eraqus 8/10
  Keyblade master, but got bested by his student. However, since he considers Terra as his son, one could guess he held back, at least subconsciously. And, well, in the end it was Xehanort who killed him, by stabbing him in the back. Aoutch.
• Yen Sid ??/10
  Retired Keyblade master. We never saw him fight... Which is quite a disappointment. I would love to see him and Xehanort battle.
• Xehanort 11/10
  He is off the scale, for obvious reasons.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

[*]Yen Sid ??/10
Keyblade master. We never saw him fight... Which is quite a disappointment. I would love to see him and Xehanort battle.

You probably will. It's such a common trope having the two masters do battle at some point in these types of stories be it Yoda vs Palpatine, Dumbledore vs Voldemort ect.

Also it will be combined with the reveal of Yen Sids keyblade for wow effect. Tho I'd imagine the battle would be mostly magic based.

But of course as these type of trope usually do it will end with a draw/escape anyway.

 

[Malyse]

You don't need to be a master to turn your keyblade into a vehicle and armor is its own separate entity. I feel like using the nightmare sequence in DDD to justify his level reset is a bit cheap. in KH1 he was new so it makes sense, in CoM Castle Oblivion wiped his memory, in KH2 his memory was wiped again and replaced with old ones, but he had been in stasis for a long time so it still makes some sense that he would be rusty. I think your theory of "you need more training" makes more sense but it would only work if KH3 picks up directly where DDD left off, and if Riku ends up being playable again there's going to be a crazy power gap between him and Sora.

At what point did I say you needed to be a master to use armor and gliders?

 

[badcrumble]

I think it's pretty clear that the Mark of Mastery doesn't *make* you more powerful or skilled, it's a recognition that you've achieved a certain level of skill/power.

 

[Nohar]

You probably will. It's such a common trope having the two masters do battle at some point in these types of stories be it Yoda vs Palpatine, Dumbledore vs Voldemort ect.

Also it will be combined with the reveal of Yen Sids keyblade for wow effect. Tho I'd imagine the battle would be mostly magic based.

But of course as these type of trope usually do it will end with a draw/escape anyway.

It's a very common trope indeed. It could also end with the death of the mentor (i.e. Yen Sid), giving a new motivation for the protagonists to go after Xehanort (not that they need a new one, but I can see Yen Sid's death affecting Mickey greatly; he was pretty affected when he believed that Goofy died, I can only guess he will have a similar reaction).
And, well, Yen Sid may be the only character I see them sacrifice.

 

[badcrumble]

That'd feel way too similar to what they did with Eraqus.

 

[badcrumble]

BUUUUT I still think they'll show Yen Sid with a keyblade at some point, and also perhaps explain why he doesn't just go out there and do everything for the heroes (which is always a problem with the powerful-mentor trope).

 

[Nohar]

BUUUUT I still think they'll show Yen Sid with a keyblade at some point, and also perhaps explain why he doesn't just go out there and do everything for the heroes (which is always a problem with the powerful-mentor trope).

Well, he is retired. There must be a reason why he doesn't do more (at least, I hope they have a good one).
Also, his situation and Eraqus's are different: Eraqus was fighting against his apprentice, and had a rather active role (though killing Ventus was going too far). Terra wounded him and Xehanort finished the job by backstabbing him. I don't see Yen Sid fighting against his fellow Keyblade wielders, the circumstances are not the same. Yes, the death of the mentor would definitly be cliché, but tropes are not bad.
As for his Keyblade... His former Keyblade was Starseeker, which he lend to Mickey. Now that Mickey has the Kingdom D Key, I guess Yen Sid took back his old Keyblade, or that he has a somewhat upgraded version of it.
But, yeah, Yen Sid is the hesistant type: he is reluctant to act. I just hope that now that Xehanort proved many, many times that he has to be stopped, he will play a more active role.

 

[badcrumble]

Remember, Star Seeker is technically a keychain, not a keyblade (and Yen Sid gave it to Sora early in KH2).

It does seem to be a keychain used by Yen Sid's apprentices, which is why the next logical recipient for it might actually be Kairi.

Presumably the thematic reasoning behind it is the stars and moon on Yen Sid's hat (and the bit of The Sorcerer's Apprentice where Mickey's pointing at the stars and making them glint and shoot across the sky and so on), tied into the world-traveling aesthetic of KH and the way that the stars are related to that (recall that shooting stars and meteors are a big deal in KH).

It'd be very cool if Yen Sid's got some kind of much more serious version of it (i.e. based on the same night sky/stars/moon aesthetic but far more ornate in a manner similar to the Ultima Weapon, Xehanort's keyblade, and so on). I expect whatever Keyblade he wields, if he ever does, to be one we haven't seen before.