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[FallingEdge]

Kobe gonna get his 6th ring!

 

[VelvetMouth]

If a player got angry if somebody stole a ball off him in a game and he yelled out, 'you're such a n*gger' to the guy who took the ball off him, would it be the same as calling the ref a f*ggot?

 

[Kinitari]

Faggot is contextual in ways that the n-word is not.

Really now?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Faggot is contextual in ways that the n-word is not.

You really sure about that? Does that even defend its usage at all? It doesn't.

 

[daffy]

We need to have a thread discussing why the word 'N' word remains to be used in black society simultaneously whilst making it unspeakable heresy, that by default equates you to a racist, for the white community and why, in addition, the term 'white' can be used in a derogative context by said group. I would stay up all morning reading that thread live

Make it. Please.

Also my opinion: A slur is not racism in the sense of hate crime against humanity. A slur is just ignorance. Racism can have signs of ignorance as well, but this type displayed here isn't homophobic, just ignorance displayed during a time of emotion. Don't pretend like we haven't each said ignorant things when the spotlight is off. He was punished for his action and we should move on, I swear getting mad at celebrities for being stupid is such a dumb sport.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Well I'm not into the whole watersports thing, but to each their own.

By the way, I made my case more than once in this thread. I'm sorry that the fact that I won't demure to the use of a homophobic slur and its defense makes you uncomfortable.

You may have made an argument but you've done a piss poor job at defending it.

 

[Monocle]

Um, words are just words? Sticks and stones and what not?

I just want to say, that reading this thread the GAF Gold way (imagining all of your avatars are saying your responses) is the best entertainment I've had all week.

Harpoons are just pieces of metal! Acid is just liquid!

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

which even furthers my point as the word having extra meanings to it.

How do you think it became associated with a general insult?

 

[BamYouHaveAids]

So I guess if we messed around then it would be a pity fuck?

Spoiler

No, if you both messed around it would be statutory rape, because there is no way you aren't prepubescent. It finally makes sense why this issue is of such interest you--you were laughed off the courts at the playground and want to change playground law, the most nefarious law of all. I wish you luck, hike up those knee highs and keep your chin up, son.

btw, Propositioning everyone you respond to for a sexual encounter doesn't make you intelligent or funny--it makes you a walking gay stereotype, you hate monger. I'm almost convinced you are a homophobe trolling.

 

[SUPREME1]

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not?

Cerebral Assassin
Member
(Today, 04:31 PM)
Reply | Quote

 

[Masked Man]

Faggot is contextual in ways that the n-word is not.

No, "faggot" and its derivatives are not allotted some special "privilege." Both words are offensive in all contexts. I don't understand why people are trying to justify Kobe's word choice like this. I get why he said it--but that doesn't make it okay.

 

[Joates]

Let's be honest, how many Americans use faggot in a way that isn't meant to be insulting to gay people?

Y'all can say that the meaning of the word has changed to motherfucker, prick, whatever. It's origins are still pretty damn bigoted.

And good for Kobe for explaining himself.

Spoiler

spurs 2011 nba champions

So meanings are always tied to their origins? Or just the origins that you want to recognize?

You are assuming its a dig on everyone is gay. Its not. Like others have said, unfortunately it is seen as interchangeable with asshole and motherfucker etc. Origins dont really matter at all. Context does.

 

[Mercury Fred]

You may have made an argument but you've done a piss poor job at defending it.

I have seen exactly zero arguments in favor of letting the use of f***t slide that hold up and zero arguments that explain why f****t is OK but n****r isn't that hold up.

No, if you both messed around it would be statutory rape, because there is no way you aren't prepubescent. It finally makes sense why this issue is of such interest you--you were laughed off the courts at the playground and want to change playground law, the most nefarious law of all. I wish you luck, hike up those knee highs and keep your chin up, son.

btw, Propositioning everyone you respond to for a sexual encounter doesn't make you intelligent or funny--it makes you a walking gay stereotype, you hate monger. I'm almost convinced you are a homophobe trolling.

The way this post so vividly peers into my very core tells me that you're not just my soul mate... you're my soul twin.

 

[Kinitari]

How is shunning people for their controversial opinions not hurtful as well? Shouldn't people who shun people also be shunned? I mean that's where this got started in the first place. Sure it is easier to hate the guy who thinks gays should be murdered, but how about the father who wants his son to be physically fit/into sports or produce grandchildren? (This applies to virginal nerds just as much as feminine gays.)

Again, I don't necessarily follow you. I am saying that I don't like people who throw around the word "faggot". If you want to be one of those people, I won't like you. If you don't want to be one of those people, I... well I don't know if I will like you, but you at least wont have any bad marks in my book. I don't like people who place emphasis on gender roles, if you want to be one of those people, you lose marks in my book. It's no more complicated than that.

 

[Korey]

Here's an idea: how about don't use either of those words, in any situation or context?

 

[Joates]

No, "faggot" and its derivatives are not allotted some special "privilege." Both words are offensive in all contexts. I don't understand why people are trying to justify Kobe's word choice like this. I get why he said it--but that doesn't make it okay.

Look at that faggot over there. (points at bundled sticks)

look at that faggot over there. (points at guy driving the wrong way down a one way street)

Look at that nigger over there... Context: learn it.

 

[NotebookJ2]

Here's an idea: how about don't use either of those words, in any situation or context?

but but political correctness!

 

[coldvein]

No, "faggot" and its derivatives are not allotted some special "privilege." Both words are offensive in all contexts. I don't understand why people are trying to justify Kobe's word choice like this. I get why he said it--but that doesn't make it okay.

kobe says offensive words. WHOOOOOOOOPS!

 

[Riposte]

Here's an idea: how about don't use either of those words, in any situation or context?

That isn't going to happen. Nice idea though!

 

[MIMIC]

No, "faggot" and its derivatives are not allotted some special "privilege." Both words are offensive in all contexts. I don't understand why people are trying to justify Kobe's word choice like this. I get why he said it--but that doesn't make it okay.

His point: Kobe was NOT calling the ref gay

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

So meanings are always tied to their origins? Or just the origins that you want to recognize?

You are assuming its a dig on everyone is gay. Its not. Like others have said, unfortunately it is seen as interchangeable with asshole and motherfucker etc. Origins dont really matter at all. Context does.

Come on. People know that when they say the word faggot, the word is offensive to gays. The context of the situation is important, and the perp may not mean to be homophobic at all, they may just mean asshole or motherfucker. But I find it hard to believe that people can't realize that the insult has evolved from a gay-bashing word, especially considering that faggot in the gay-bashing context is still so ubiquitous today.

 

[spindashing]

My two cents:

Kobe said that he said it in the heat of the moment, and while I understand that: I myself would never use that word in that situation. I used to say faggot when I was younger, but thankfully I grew out of it. You don't just say random shit in the heat of the moment; I'm sure this isn't the first time he used that word.

He apologized, he was fined significantly, it's over.

There's no need to compare and contrast the words faggot and nigger. I'm surprised this thread is going so far.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Cerebral Assassin
Member
(Today, 04:31 PM)
Reply | Quote

Perhaps if you could construct a sentence I would be able to understand what you are trying to get at.

 

[Chamber]

Suspend him for the playoffs.

Please.

 

[Srsly]

Does making an offensive word taboo make it more potent when it is actually used?

 

[DataStream]

I've never called anyone a f-- before.

National outrage and multiple statements and shit is ridiculous, but him saying this does come from a culture that supports intolerance toward gays. In my world, you get called an asshole or a motherfucker or something.

Why you hating on sweet MILF loving?

 

[Korey]

Look at that faggot over there. (points at bundled sticks)

look at that faggot over there. (points at guy driving the wrong way down a one way street)

Look at that nigger over there... Context: learn it.

His point: Kobe was NOT calling the ref gay

Context is actually irrelevant. It doesn't matter what Kobe meant.

I've heard the "Jew" slur thrown around, and never is it used to literally call the subject a person of Jewish descent. It's derogatory and unacceptable when used pejoratively.

I can't believe people still don't get this. Or maybe they don't want to.

 

[Gaborn]

No, "faggot" and its derivatives are not allotted some special "privilege." Both words are offensive in all contexts. I don't understand why people are trying to justify Kobe's word choice like this. I get why he said it--but that doesn't make it okay.

Well, except one:

But I don't think anyone can reasonably make the case that Kobe meant it that way.

I think that this is a matter of decorum. Professional athletes have to realize that they're in the public spotlight, they're paid to represent their team to the best of their abilities and that's both on and off the court. There is no reason whatsoever to endorse language that is blatantly offensive and more importantly will alienate a significant number of fans.

 

[Souldriver]

Hmmm, well, why can't you dislike certain intrinsic qualities, even if someone can't change them? It certainly isn't an impossibility, in fact I'd argue it is common to dislike something that people can't change. Moreover is it really any better to dislike someone's character or principles? I mean for them to become agreeable, you'd have to (forcefully) change who they are. In such a case, how is it ever "fair" to make fun of someone's intelligence(as every person arguing for PC has done)? As a child what we learn is completely out of our control and as an adult our education is based on what we have already learned(most adults show unwillingness to learn what opposes what they already know, that is how they tick).

Off course it's common. That doesn't make it right though. I don't know how you can argue that disliking someone because of eye color, race, sexual orientation, ... is alright.

The rest of your post has the smell of a relativism argument. You can call someones upbringing an extenuating circumstance when talking about someones attitude or character. But at a certain point in your life most people are smart and mature enough to see when their views are hateful, or racist, or deeply annoying, or sexist, or egoistic, or... and you can fault them for holding on to those things. That's also why the word "(im)mature" is being thrown around a lot in this thread. It's more difficult to fault little kids for using hateful words, because most of the time they don't know the weight and meaning behind those words. An adult however can, so if he continues using them, all you can say is that he/she is acting very immature.

 

[Joates]

Come on. People know that when they say the word faggot, the word is offensive to gays. The context of the situation is important, and the perp may not mean to be homophobic at all, they may just mean asshole or motherfucker. But I find it hard to believe that people can't realize that the insult has evolved from a gay-bashing word, especially considering that faggot in the gay-bashing context is still so ubiquitous today.

People should know that it offends gays. That though, doesnt matter at all. You are allowed to offend people.

I find it hard to believe that people are trying to twist his words to being hateful towards the gay community when there is no evidence to back it up. Like you said it evolved. It doesnt simply mean what it once did. And that means you have to actually use brainpower to deduce what he meant.

Sane person: Hes pissed off about the call and wanted the ref to know.

GAFFER: He is doing this to offend the gay community!

 

[DaMan121]

Come on. People know that when they say the word faggot, the word is offensive to gays. The context of the situation is important, and the perp may not mean to be homophobic at all, they may just mean asshole or motherfucker. But I find it hard to believe that people can't realize that the insult has evolved from a gay-bashing word, especially considering that faggot in the gay-bashing context is still so ubiquitous today.

A gay comedian used both words in a show, he didn't seem offended.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Let's be honest, how many Americans use faggot in a way that isn't meant to be insulting to gay people?

Probably the vast majority.

Kobe's guilty of using a discriminatory slur as a casual insult (which is itself insulting to the LGBT community), but not of using it as a discriminatory slur. The word nigger does not have this place in culture, and when said with malice, almost universally has a racist intent behind it.

That isn't excusing it at all, just being an adult and being intellectually honest about what emotions were realistically behind it.

LGBT activists groups themselves attack the "casualization" of these kinds of slurs in ads, so its a phenomenon openly recognized by every side of this issue. Therefore It puzzles me that people in this thread claim not to see a difference between his thoughtlessness/insensitivity and actual hate speech against gays.

 

[Riposte]

Does making an offensive word taboo make it more potent when it is actually used?

Of course. Words are just a medium and the ear is what gives words power. This generally doesn't happen because such words are short hand for a multitude of concepts. Like the n word generally means lazy/stupid/violent/primal and those are the qualities the most popular racist ideology place on black people.

 

[AColdDay]

Fuck Kobe Bryant.

The above statement has nothing to do with this particular thread, just my general philosophy on life.

 

[coldvein]

that when they say the word faggot, the word is offensive to gays.

the word is supposed to be offensive. some homosexual folk find it particularly offensive. i throw it at straight people occasionally, and they too find it offensive. there is room in our american/english vocabulary for offensive words. they serve a purpose.

 

[Masked Man]

It's a little unsettling to see people defend usage of "fag" or "faggot" with such vehemence. Just because a word is commonly used in a derogatory sense doesn't mean that it is somehow stripped of its offensiveness because of the fact that it is used so frequently.

But I don't think anyone can reasonably make the case that Kobe meant it that way.

I think that this is a matter of decorum. Professional athletes have to realize that they're in the public spotlight, they're paid to represent their team to the best of their abilities and that's both on and off the court. There is no reason whatsoever to endorse language that is blatantly offensive and more importantly will alienate a significant number of fans.

Well put.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

GAFFER: He is doing this to offend the gay community!

I don't remember reading any posts that claimed that.

 

[DR2K]

Lets hold a basket ball player to the highest moral standards.

 

[Kinitari]

My two cents:

Kobe said that he said it in the heat of the moment, and while I understand that: I myself would never use that word in that situation. I used to say faggot when I was younger, but thankfully I grew out of it. You don't just say random shit in the heat of the moment; I'm sure this isn't the first time he used that word.

He apologized, he was fined significantly, it's over.

There's no need to compare and contrast the words faggot and nigger. I'm surprised this thread is going so far.

People in this thread are saying that by using the word faggot in a different context, it shouldn't offend homosexuals - or some such nonsense. Nigger is a word that has a lot of impact to a lot of people in this thread, so it's good use as an example.

Here let me cover all my bases.

From now on when someone is slow to reply because he has his head in the clouds thinking about silly things, I'm going to say he's being a kike.

When someone is being stupid, or rather, intellectually dishonest, he's being a nigger.

When someone is worrying too much about the future and not living enough in the present, he's being a chink.

 

[WretchedTruman]

I don't think anyone in this thread here truly believes that this indicates Bryant's distaste for the homosexual community. I mean, who here believes that, based on the evidence?

That said, understanding that his impulsive response to what he considered a bullshit call was karate chopping his teammate's hand out of the way and calling the ref a "fucking faggot" isn't a far stretch away from how I discern between people I want to associate myself with in everyday life, and people I don't.

Context means fuck all. He's not homophobic, he doesn't deserve a suspension, and one shouldn't take more from it than what you gather at first glance, but he deserves to be called a jackass, because these are the kind of reactions a jackass has to something he disagrees with. I mean, seriously, how old are you? What, his 'passion for the game' is a jail free card? I'm much more aggravated with thoughts like this than Kobe saying anything at all. Any movie celebrity's career would be a battlefield for months if something like this slipped out on tape.

 

[Margalis]

His point: Kobe was NOT calling the ref gay

This has been explained multiple times. You are completely missing the point.

Nobody believes that someone you call a "pussy" is a giant walking, talking vagina either.

 

[Jimrpg]

obviously kobe shouldnt have said it... it shouldnt even be in his vocabulary.

but 100k is extreme... i mean i know he earns heaps but his mind would work just like the rest of us... maybe in the heat of the moment we would say things too.... even $1k for the rest of us would be excessive...

 

[MIMIC]

Context is actually irrelevant. It doesn't matter what Kobe meant.

I've heard the "Jew" slur thrown around, and never is it used to literally call the subject a person of Jewish descent. It's derogatory and unacceptable when used pejoratively.

I can't believe people still don't get this. Or maybe they don't want to.

lol, yeah....not LITERALLY, but it's still referring to Jewish stereotypes. "Gay/Fag" used in Kobe's context isn't referring to homosexuals at all.

 

[Mumei]

If the referee isn't gay, than it is different. Use some common sense.

But if he were gay, there would be no difference?

And I already addressed your point about how one is commonly used against people who are not gay as a way to suggest that they are unmanly ("a bitch," in common parlance); I think you can comprehend how while that might not be quite the same to the immediate target, the usage is just as bigoted.

Or perhaps that's too much to hope for.

"Fag" and similar terms are generally used to emasculate, and yes, that's what Kobe was probably doing. Usually calling someone a fag means you think they are like a gay man in that they are not "real men", girly, etc. To use "fag" in that manner you basically have to believe that gay men are inferior "normal" men.

The use of the word "fag" typically means that the subject is like a gay man, not that you think they are actually gay. Just like calling someone a pussy means they are womanly, like someone who has a vagina, not that they are actually a giant vagina.

Whether or not Kobe thinks the ref is actually gay is totally irrelevant.

I like you.

Way to miss the point.

.....which was is that things that didn't mean shit maybe 20 or 30 years ago are used frequently today.

Like I said: Language has evolved. Love it or hate it; it is what it is.

Stating that something has happened ("Language has evolved") is not a meaningful defense of your own usage.

black people don't say nigger, we say nigga. Well that is incorrect because old black people may call someone a nigger.

I always thought that the difference in pronunciation was because of differences between AAVE and SAE and not because of any deliberate attempt to differentiate the terms. But I haven't really looked into it.

ITT: No one has ever used a gay slur or said "That's gay" in as a joke or in frustration.
Hypocrites...He apologized. He's never shown himself to be homophobic before so why are people making such a big deal out of this

Nope. At least not until I discovered I had in-group privileges, and even then rarely.

 

[Joates]

This has been explained multiple times. You are completely missing the point.

Nobody believes that someone you call a "pussy" is a giant walking, talking vagina either.

But this thread believes that women should be up in arms over it, right? Or maybe its just we should stick up for vaginas and show some more respect.

 

[coldvein]

It's a little unsettling to see people defend usage of "fag" or "faggot" with such vehemence. Just because a word is commonly used in a derogatory sense doesn't mean that it is somehow stripped of its offensiveness because of the fact that it is used so frequently.

who wants to strip words of their offensiveness? do you? it's a piece of language, the thing that we use to communicate with eachother. if i want to compliment you, i have words for that. if i want to offend you, i have words for that, too. looking at language with this big overarching "good" or "bad" view is pretty silly, to me.

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

People should know that it offends gays. That though, doesnt matter at all. You are allowed to offend people.

I find it hard to believe that people are trying to twist his words to being hateful towards the gay community when there is no evidence to back it up. Like you said it evolved. It doesnt simply mean what it once did. And that means you have to actually use brainpower to deduce what he meant.

Sane person: Hes pissed off about the call and wanted the ref to know.

GAFFER: He is doing this to offend the gay community!

I dunno, are people here really trying to claim that he is trying to offend the gay community? If he wants to offend the ref, that's fine. Gays have the right to be offended as well, considering that it's still a very powerful word and we don't know if he actually meant "you motherfucker" or "you gay man". If he used it in the second way, it makes sense that people would be offended- he's implying that gay men are inherently inferior to "normal" people.

Of course, he has since clarified that he meant know ill intent and I'm inclined to believe him. I feel like this is where the story should end

Spoiler

spurs 2011 nba champions

 

[Gaborn]

I don't think anyone in this thread here truly believes that this indicates Bryant's distaste for the homosexual community. I mean, who here believes that, based on the evidence?

That said, understanding that his impulsive response to what he considered a bullshit call was karate chopping his teammate's hand out of the way and calling the ref a "fucking faggot" isn't a far stretch away from how I discern between people I want to associate myself with in everyday life, and people I don't.

Context means fuck all. He's not homophobic, he doesn't deserve a suspension, and one shouldn't take more from it than what you gather at first glance, but he deserves to be called a jackass, because these are the kind of reactions a jackass has to something he disagrees with. I mean, seriously, how old are you?

Indeed. He's a horrible role model for kids and an even worse representative of the league. I wouldn't accept a friend using that kind of language so why should I accept it from some a spoiled rich superstar? He should be suspended.

 

[spindashing]

People in this thread are saying that by using the word faggot in a different context, it shouldn't offend homosexuals - or some such nonsense. Nigger is a word that has a lot of impact to a lot of people in this thread, so it's good use as an example.

Here let me cover all my bases.

From now on when someone is slow to reply because he has his head in the clouds thinking about silly things, I'm going to say he's being a kike.

When someone is being stupid, or rather, intellectually dishonest, he's being a nigger.

When someone is worrying too much about the future and not living enough in the present, he's being a chink.

Alright, I do not agree in that. While the two words are different, I do understand your reasonings. Although faggot can be used in "a different context", that doesn't mean that it shouldn't offend homosexuals and the same goes for the use of nigger.

There are so many other expletives that one could use without such an impact, lol.

 

[Shin Dynamo X]

If a player got angry if somebody stole a ball off him in a game and he yelled out, 'you're such a n*gger' to the guy who took the ball off him, would it be the same as calling the ref a f*ggot?

Most likely the guy that called the other a n*gger would be a dead ass mofo. Besides, blacks are born that way, there is no proof that gays are born gay. Heck, I've seen straight guys walk out prison all turned out after doing a bid.

A gay man can hide in the closet and avoid bigotry. A black person can't hide being black. There isn't a closet big enough to hide that.