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[Joates]

are you trying to belittle a minority's struggle for equality? what the fuck dude.

Oh come on! Hes saying they not exactly equal. Its not that fucking hard to understand.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

are you trying to belittle a minority's struggle for equality? what the fuck dude.

What? No I'm not.

 

[Joates]

I guess I'm more directing that point to Shin, but since Cupcakes brought it up... No one would even think of questioning a person's religiosity, and their right to freedom of religion and religious thought. But it's considered a serious argument by some that people have not found a single gene that controls sexual orientation (even though there is certainly a strong genetic component at work)

But isnt it funny thats the exact same crowd spearheading the issue?

 

[btkadams]

Oh come on! Hes saying they not exactly equal. Its not that fucking hard to understand.

What level of importance does each get then?

What? No I'm not.

You mentioned a "choosing which protest" scenario and it just makes it seem like you don't think the gay rights struggle is important enough to consider. Sorry if you meant something different but that's just how it seemed from reading that.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Oh come on! Hes saying they not exactly equal. Its not that fucking hard to understand.

Thank you. People are kidding themselves if they think they think that comparing saying the n word and and the f word are the same.

 

[Joates]

What level of importance does each get then?

Minorities are not equal to each other. Hence their struggles are not equal to each other. That is not to say they arent on the same playing field. But they are hardly equal.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

What level of importance does each get then?

Its up to you. Thats what I'm getting that. You're not a bad person if you hold one in a higher way than the other because everyone does that.

 

[btkadams]

Thank you. People are kidding themselves if they think they think that comparing saying the n word and and the f word are the same.

What does it matter if they're both offensive? In that way they are the same... I don't understand what people are even arguing for.

 

[spindashing]

Minorities are not equal to each other. Hence their struggles are not equal to each other. That is not to say they arent on the same playing field. But they are hardly equal.

Yes. My sentiments exactly.

Look, can we all just get along god damn it?

Edit: Did I defend church people just now? Oh fucking bullshit

Edit #2: I may have offended bull shit. Sorry.

 

[TangMeng]

ITT: People who use homophobic slurs defend basketball player who uses homophobic slurs.


Move along here people.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

You mentioned a "choosing which protest" scenario and it just makes it seem like you don't think the gay rights struggle is important enough to consider. Sorry if you meant something different but that's just how it seemed from reading that.

No I was just saying that some people would think the gay rights protest is more important and some people can mean that the other is more important.

 

[Kinitari]

Thank you. People are kidding themselves if they think they think that comparing saying the n word and and the f word are the same.

Saying Nigger and saying Faggot are different, and they are the same. It's not black and white. You call a gay person a Faggot, and you probably can hurt and offend them just as much as if you called a black person a Nigger. If the two were standing abreast, would you tell the homosexual to make sure that he feels adequately less offended than the black man?

 

[opusink]

 

[Barry Lightning]

I hate when articles like this dont print what exactly was said. JUST SAY IT and report the damn news like you suposed!

 

[Joates]

What does it matter if they're both offensive? In that way they are the same... I don't understand what people are even arguing for.

I know I may be going out on a limb here, but maybe, just maybe they arent equally as offensive.

One may be known to be an ambiguous insult, the other a racial slur.

Saying Nigger and saying Faggot are different, and they are the same. It's not black and white. You call a gay person a Faggot, and you probably can hurt and offend them just as much as if you called a black person a Nigger. If the two were standing abreast, would you tell the homosexual to make sure that he feels adequately less offended than the black man?

Depending on context, they can have very similar meanings. In other context they are very different.

 

[dream]

 

[Mumei]

Thank you. People are kidding themselves if they think they think that comparing saying the n word and and the f word are the same.

I was ignored the last time I tried this, so let's have another go at it. I'll even bold this time!

"Would you ask me how I dare to compare the civil rights struggle with the struggle for lesbian and gay rights? I can compare them and I do compare them, because I know what it means to be called a 'nigger' and I know what it means to be called a 'faggot,' and I understand the differences in the marrow of my bones. And I can sum up that difference in one word: none."

 

[spindashing]

http://www.waxxtv.com/wp-content/uploads/Kobe6.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Kobe, you're looking pretty hom[spoiler]osapien[/spoiler] my ni[spoiler]nja[/spoiler]

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

What does it matter if they're both offensive? In that way they are the same... I don't understand what people are even arguing for.

Some people don't even consider it offensive which leads me again to saying again, its subjective.

 

[Gaborn]

Oh come on! Hes saying they not exactly equal. Its not that fucking hard to understand.

Even if a person has stronger personal allegiances to one group or another that doesn't mean we should say that one slur is "better" than another slur.

ChocolateCupcakes - Some racists don't consider "nigger" offensive. That doesn't mean it's not offensive.

 

[MIMIC]

I hate when articles like this dont print what exactly was said. JUST SAY IT and report the damn news like you suposed!

LOL, yeah. It took me WAY to long to find out what he actually said.

"Kobe said (expletive) (expletive)"

WTF

 

[FindMyFarms]

As an offensive word, the "N" bomb carries way more weight than the "F" missile.

 

[Souldriver]

Oh come on! Hes saying they not exactly equal. Its not that fucking hard to understand.

How are they not equal?

If you are getting your head smashed in because your black, or because you're gay, fact is that you're still going to die for a reason out of your control.

Look, the quantity of discrimination against blacks has been greater throughout history (I reckon) than against gays, because your skin color can't be hidden like sexuality. The quality is arguably the same. Once the wrong people know you're either gay/black, you're ridiculed, shunned, discriminated, hurt or killed. TODAY somewhere in the world, a homosexual gets killed because of his sexuality, TODAY somewhere in the world, a black man gets killed because of his skin color. And this has been going on for centuries. Same with women and jews. They're all giant demographics who've gotten the short end of the stick all throughout history.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Saying Nigger and saying Faggot are different, and they are the same. It's not black and white. You call a gay person a Faggot, and you probably can hurt and offend them just as much as if you called a black person a Nigger. If the two were standing abreast, would you tell the homosexual to make sure that he feels adequately less offended than the black man?

How are they the same if some people don't see any of those words as a big deal? And no it wouldn't hurt to comfort them both but I would kidding myself if I didn't relate to one more than the other.

 

[Kinitari]

Depending on context, they can have very similar meanings. In other context they are very different.

Okay, here is some more context.

If a gay man and a black man are standing next to each other on the street, observing as people walk by, and you called a random bystander nearby a faggot, and another random bystander nearby a nigger, should the black man observing or the gay man observing be more offended?

How are they the same if some people don't see any of those words as a big deal? And no it wouldn't hurt to comfort them both but I would kidding myself if I didn't relate to one more than the other.

I am having trouble grasping the bolded, but I assume you mean, if some people don't see the word faggot as a big deal, it shouldn't be the same? Well let me tell you my friend, some people throw around the word nigger like they're saying 'sir' - and no I am not talking about black people.

 

[btkadams]

I know I may be going out on a limb here, but maybe, just maybe they arent equally as offensive.

One may be known to be an ambiguous insult, the other a racial slur.

Let me tell you, i encounter people around me throwing around "That's so gay" or calling each other faggots all the time. Every single time it's so "innocently" said, it fucking burns into my head. It makes me want to jump right back in the closet again. It is seriously so goddamn offensive and hurtful that I make little lies in conversations with group members in classes where i just refer to my bf as a friend. I'm out to everyone, but i still feel completely uncomfortable in settings like that. It's the reason I didn't even come out until after high school. Everyone said it all the time and I felt like I was going to fucking die alone because I would never be accepted.

 

[Joates]

I was ignored the last time I tried this, so let's have another go at it. I'll even bold this time!

"Would you ask me how I dare to compare the civil rights struggle with the struggle for lesbian and gay rights? I can compare them and I do compare them, because I know what it means to be called a 'nigger' and I know what it means to be called a 'faggot,' and I understand the differences in the marrow of my bones. And I can sum up that difference in one word: none."

Just because there is no difference in meaning for you does not mean other people dont see a difference.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Whoa, 19 pages? What happened? First that epic math thread and now this lol

 

[Gaborn]

How are they the same if some people don't see any of those words as a big deal? And no it wouldn't hurt to comfort them both but I would kidding myself if I didn't relate to one more than the other.

Does that only work for gay slurs or can we give racists the ability to use the N-word freely without contempt too since they don't see anything wrong with it?

 

[DECK'ARD]

As an offensive word, the "N" bomb carries way more weight than the "F" missile.

This line of thinking in the thread is mindboggling.

Bigotry is bigotry, and those words are the standard-bearers for that bigotry. Both equally offensive, and the fact one is still thrown around so casually is depressing. Society has a bit of growing up to do.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Even if a person has stronger personal allegiances to one group or another that doesn't mean we should say that one slur is "better" than another slur.

ChocolateCupcakes - Some racists don't consider "nigger" offensive. That doesn't mean it's not offensive.

When did I say one was "better" than the other. One just holds higher precedence compared to your background.

If they don't think its offensive than its not offensive to them. That doesn't mean its not offensive to someone else.

 

[lawlohwhat]

as long as you morons are going to get off-topic:

sexuality is a biological and social construction. read plato's symposium for a perfect example of this. in ancient athens, it was the highest sign of status for an older man to impart his wisdom upon a younger man in exchange for his younger flesh. diotima gives a speech describing plato's ladder of love, which starts at the love of an individual body, to love of all bodies, to love of the soul, love of knowledge/learning, and finally love of all encompassing wisdom and flesh.

people aren't just gay/straight, as there are all degrees of gray shades in between: people who are asexual, people with no sexual identity, people with no gender identity (how can you be a heterosexual or homosexual if you don't identify with either gender?), etc. there is also no single 'gay gene'. for anyone who isn't the least bit familiar with genetics and biological processes, there are tendencies in genotypes toward particular phenotypes, and then environmental influences that will encourage or discourage expression of those genotypes. even this explanation doesn't begin to describe a social behavior as complex as sexual identity, though.

now watch the louis ck bit about 'faggot' and go about your lives. surely you people have something better to do than f5'ing a thread about kobe bryant all fucking night.

 

[Mumei]

Just because there is no difference in meaning for you does not mean other people dont see a difference.

I didn't say that.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

How are they not equal?

If you are getting your head smashed in because your black, or because you're gay, fact is that you're still going to die for a reason out of your control.

Look, the quantity of discrimination against blacks has been greater throughout history (I reckon) than against gays, because your skin color can't be hidden like sexuality. The quality is arguably the same. Once the wrong people know you're either gay/black, you're ridiculed, shunned, discriminated, hurt or killed. TODAY somewhere in the world, a homosexual gets killed because of his sexuality, TODAY somewhere in the world, a black man gets killed because of his skin color. And this has been going on for centuries. Same with women and jews. They're all giant demographics who've gotten the short end of the stick all throughout history.

Like I said before, for the most part if you want to compare it, its subjective.

 

[Joates]

Let me tell you, i encounter people around me throwing around "That's so gay" or calling each other faggots all the time. Every single time it's so "innocently" said, it fucking burns into my head. It makes me want to jump right back in the closet again. It is seriously so goddamn offensive and hurtful that I make little lies in conversations with group members in classes where i just refer to my bf as a friend. I'm out to everyone, but i still feel completely uncomfortable in settings like that. It's the reason I didn't even come out until after high school. Everyone said it all the time and I felt like I was going to fucking die alone because I would never be accepted.

So every time they say something along those lines you take it as a direct insult to you? They couldnt possibly be interchanging words in their vocabulary?

People "innocently" throwing around gay comments and you feeling like your your going to "Fucking die alone because you would never be accepted" does not compute.

Either it was being used innocently (ignorantly) or it was being used as derogatory remark.

You are twisting it in your own head to meaning both, regardless of intended meaning.

 

[Kitschkraft]

I don't like what Kobe did, but some of you really are making this less nuanced than it is.

Dirk calling Kobe a "nigger" could not be construed as anything other than racially motivated. It would be a direct insult on him because of his race.

Kobe didn't have any clue as to the refs sexuality, how could he? While he deserves a fine, I definitely don't think that his comments were meant to convey a message of "I hate gays".

Of course, Kobe hasn't done himself any favors due to past actions leading to questions of his character, and that (rightfully) adds to this discussion in regards to him personally. But I've heard "fag", "queer", "gay" used in derogatory context where the persons sexual preference wasn't even on the radar.

 

[Devolution]

Can people stop playing the oppression olympics with slurs? Who gives a fuck, they're all offensive and marginalize a specific minority group even more.

 

[hobbitx]

Sir referee, your detestable call to offense has rendered you a man of homosexual tendencies of the most disasterous kind

Oh youtube comment section, what would I do without you?

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Does that only work for gay slurs or can we give racists the ability to use the N-word freely without contempt too since they don't see anything wrong with it?

Society has grown from that so I doubt it would happen.

 

[Gaborn]

When did I say one was "better" than the other. One just holds higher precedence compared to your background.

If they don't think its offensive than its not offensive to them. That doesn't mean its not offensive to someone else.

And I think this is the point. I suspect what we have here is a lot of black straight men reacting to being called "nigger" (an understandably deadly insult) vs "faggot" which is not for them. Up against a bunch of gay men who really would prefer that our professional athletes not use such language without a penalty severe enough that they're NEVER going to do it again. Such as a suspension.

 

[Joates]

I didn't say that.

Read the last bolded line of your quote and get back to me.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I don't like what Kobe did, but some of you really are making this less nuanced then it is.

Dirk calling Kobe a "nigger" could not be construed as anything other than racially motivated. It would be a direct insult on him because of his race.

Kobe didn't have any clue as to the refs sexuality, how could he? While he deserves a fine, I definitely don't think that his comments were meant to convey a message of "I hate gays".

Of course, Kobe hasn't done himself any favors due to past actions leading to questions of his character, and that (rightfully) adds to this discussion in regards to him personally. But I've heard "fag", "queer", "gay" used in derogatory context where the persons sexual preference wasn't even on the radar.

The point is that it shouldn't be acceptable to use it in a derogatory context, and when society grows up a bit it won't be.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I'm not saying they should be throwing the book at Kobe for this (and they shouldn't) but I really don't like the attitude many sports fans have taken toward the conduct of athletes, especially high-profile celebrity athletes like Kobe Bryant. The whole, "Get off their backs, mannn, they're just people like you and me!" shtick is bullshit precisely because they aren't like you and me. They're celebrities - for better or for worse - and like any celebrity they're held to a higher level of scrutiny than Joe Bumfuck. It's just the way it is and is the price of being one of the best basketball players on the planet. Like a hollywood star or politician in high office, you're gonna get ripped into for fucking up. And Kobe fucked up; he can take his licks like a man and move on, because before long the media will have forgotten all about it.

 

[Mumei]

Read the last bolded line of your quote and get back to me.

No, see, the quotation marks indicate that I was quoting what a different person (not me) said.

Is English your second language?

 

[bill0527]

Is LGBT going to organize a boycott of the Los Angeles Lakers organization? Demand that Kobe Bryant be fired? Boycott every sponser and corporation that does business with the Los Angeles Lakers? And if not, why not?

 

[Kinitari]

Society has grown from that so I doubt it would happen.

It happens. A lot. Not just 'in the south' or whatnot. Playing wow, you have no idea how many times I've been in a party and people will say shit like "Man, prince Malcheezar was being such a nigger" "c'mon guys, stop being niggers, don't roll need if you mean greed".

Is that okay with you? That they don't mean it to offend black people?

Is LGBT going to organize a boycott of the Los Angeles Lakers organization? Demand that Kobe Bryant be fired? Boycott every sponser and corporation that does business with the Los Angeles Lakers? And if not, why not?

I'm not really a part of the LGBT community, but I don't think they work as a cohesive group like that, they're not a colony of ants. Maybe some will, maybe some wont. People can be offended without boycotting things in every direction.

 

[btkadams]

So every time they say something along those lines you take it as a direct insult to you? They couldnt possibly be interchanging words in their vocabulary?

People "innocently" throwing around gay comments and you feeling like your your going to "Fucking die alone because you would never be accepted" does not compute.

Either it was being used innocently (ignorantly) or it was being used as derogatory remark.

You are twisting it in your own head to meaning both, regardless of intended meaning.

Obviously other factors come into play. Growing up gay is growing up different. When people say the words it just is a constant reminder that its not accepted, and it just comes together to weigh you down.

 

[Joates]

No, see, the quotation marks indicate that I was quoting what a different person (not me) said.

Is English your second language?

Well see, when I quoted you and it put that little

.

It helps in identifying who made the quote.

Misunderstanding

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

It happens. A lot. Not just 'in the south' or whatnot. Playing wow, you have no idea how many times I've been in a party and people will say shit like "Man, prince Malcheezar was being such a nigger" "c'mon guys, stop being niggers, don't roll need if you mean greed".

Is that okay with you? That they don't mean it to offend black people?

I said that it has grown not that racism has been completely eradicated. And frankly, no it doesn't offend it but I could understand if it does. You can't walk around saying perfectly unoffensive things.

 

[Joates]

It happens. A lot. Not just 'in the south' or whatnot. Playing wow, you have no idea how many times I've been in a party and people will say shit like "Man, prince Malcheezar was being such a nigger" "c'mon guys, stop being niggers, don't roll need if you mean greed".

Is that okay with you? That they don't mean it to offend black people?




I'm not really a part of the LGBT community, but I don't think they work as a cohesive group like that, they're not a colony of ants. Maybe some will, maybe some wont. People can be offended without boycotting things in every direction.

Yeah I was on Xbox live the other day and.... (yada yada yada downfall of humanity)

Good example to pick. WoW...