Support NeoGAF

[Devolution]

I dont use the words personally, but I can see how others see no difference in the usage because thats the only meaning theyve ever really used it for.

So you think kids who run around calling shit "gay" even if they dont know other connotations of the word are stifling the gay movements progress?

I hate how you all refuse to look at context and\or intent. Unreal.

I hate how privileged certain people are that they must covet certain words they know are offensive to others and when asked not to use such words, throw a fit. Says a lot about them.

I think people throwing "gay" and "faggot" around as insults foster a greater negative attitude towards homosexuals whether they want to acknowledge it or not.

 

[hawkshockey11]

Wow, sensitive Gaf is sensitive.

He said a word.
Not directed at a gay person.
No one got hurt.
And if no video was shot of him no one would have gave a fuck.

Some people need to stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

It's wrong to be ignorant.

Or maybe they think of gay people are equals and that that word has evolved into a different meaning?

EDIT: Context, is a better word for it.

 

[Souldriver]

I dont use the words personally, but I can see how others see no difference in the usage because thats the only meaning theyve ever really used it for.

So you think kids who run around calling shit "gay" even if they dont know other connotations of the word are stifling the gay movements progress?

I hate how you all refuse to look at context and\or intent. Unreal.

The ignorant kid using it doesn't want it to, but it does. Cause the kid, just as many other people, keep using both fag and gay, which are terms that refer to homosexuals, as words to insult people.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Or maybe they think of gay people are equals and that that word has evolved into a different meaning?

This is even more bonkers.

 

[Joates]

Or maybe they think of gay people are equals and that that word has evolved into a different meaning?

Oh come on. You know as well as Zephyr thats bullshit.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Wow at all this its wrong to be ignorant. People are ignorant about big and small things everyday and society isn't on the brink of collapsing from it.

 

[SuperBonk]

I shouldn't have used the word it, I was referring to all the words mentioned at the end of the post. Faggot is just a horrible word.

And whether they are used with hate or not, it's reinforcing a difference and perception that being gay is a bad thing, a negative thing, that being straight is better. Someone's sexuality should never be equated with a put-down. Even if it's not aimed at someone who is gay, it's perpetuating the wrong mindset.

Some habits need to be broken.

My point was that "faggot" should be completely acceptable with that connotation. It's only a horrible word because we, like with other racial slurs, let it be. I sincerely hope that in 50 years, oppression of most minority groups will be negligible and people will be throwing around the words "faggot" and "nigger" and whatever else to mean who knows what.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Or maybe they think of gay people are equals and that that word has evolved into a different meaning?

I don't even know what you're trying to say anymore.

Que?

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Am I the only gay guy who doesn't care about what this dude said? I don't follow basketball, I barely know who he is, and I don't get the outrage or gay groups acting like the gay rights movement has been dealt a blow. "He said faggot! He said faggot!" The guy was clearly acting like an unprofessional dick and just by chance was caught on camera - but the controversy is totally over the top. He issued an apology. Move on.

Also LOL @ the word 'evolving to have different meaning'. Way to be disingenuous - what a load of shit!

 

[DECK'ARD]

Wow at all this its wrong to be ignorant. People are ignorant about big and small things everyday and society isn't on the brink of collapsing from it.

And as a society the aim is to become less ignorant.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Hmm, maybe I worded it wrongly. Context, I think is better.

 

[MightyHealthy]

While I think that's bullshit, if one wants to be decent to all the different groups of people out there, you decide that some of your "precious" vocabulary needs to be stamped out. I don't know why those who consider themselves above prejudice and discrimination would hold so tightly onto words that offend others. It must be some grand privilege to declare certain words "un-offensive" in a specific context, mostly because you said so.

Some people get WAY too PC about everyday language...

a sizeable portion of folks used the word "faggot" in a way that was synonymous with "bitch," "asshole," "jerkoff," etc. It wasn't used in a homophobic context, but as a general insult.

It's common sense, but some folks LOVE to get up a pedestal and talk down to people who disagree with changing facets of their dialect to appease people's consciences.

 

[Joates]

The ignorant kid using it doesn't want it to, but it does. Cause the kid, just as many other people, keep using both fag and gay, which are terms that refer to homosexuals, as words to insult people.

But its being used to insult that particular person as a personal attack, oftentimes when the person isnt even gay. Its not like every time someone says a gay slur it is meant to harm gays. But apparently people want it to be directed at gays.

Ive got news for you all. Using slurs only hurts the person if they let them hurt them. Especially when context and intent are taken into consideration.

 

[Margalis]

So you think kids who run around calling shit "gay" even if they dont know other connotations of the word are stifling the gay movements progress?

I find it VERY HARD to believe that there are a lot of people who use "gay" as an insult who don't know that gay means homosexual.

What a strange world some of you people live in. A world where women are called "faggots" as often as men and nobody knows that gay means gay. Wacky.

And yes, it actually does hurt gay rights when "gay" becomes a synonym for "something we dislike."

But its being used to insult that particular person as a personal attack, oftentimes when the person isnt even gay. Its not like every time someone says a gay slur it is meant to harm gays. But apparently people want it to be directed at gays.

Ive got news for you all. Using slurs only hurts the person if they let them hurt them. Especially when context and intent are taken into consideration.

This is all nonsense. Tons of time and effort are spent on branding and marketing and the power of words. There is a reason Republicans call the estate tax the "death tax."

If gay people are trying to get equal rights and respect it ABSOLUTELY DOES HURT if "gay" as a term means people we should shit all over, things we think are terrible or has extremely negative connotations in general.

Note how "rapeseed oil" is now known as canola oil, and how high fructose corn syrup is being rebranded as "corn sugar?" Things do better in general when they aren't word associated with extremely negative connotations and feelings.

 

[Devolution]

But its being used to insult that particular person as a personal attack, oftentimes when the person isnt even gay. Its not like every time someone says a gay slur it is meant to harm gays. But apparently people want it to be directed at gays.

Ive got news for you all. Using slurs only hurts the person if they let them hurt them. Especially when context and intent are taken into consideration.

You have a load of privilege that you need to sort out dude.

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

This thread is going around in circles.


It needs to put put down, stat

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Are you seriously going to defend using a derogatory term when you just laid out a bunch of synonyms that don't marginalize said minority group?

How dare you.

As a fan of sexy older women, I take offense whenever people slander me and my fellow motherfuckers. How could you be so heartless?

 

[Joates]

I find it VERY HARD to believe that there are a lot of people who use "gay" as an insult who don't know that gay means homosexual.

What a strange world some of you people live in. A world where women are called "faggots" as often as men and nobody knows that gay means gay. Wacky.

And yes, it actually does hurt gay rights when "gay" becomes a synonym for "something we dislike."

Obviously you along with many others find it VERY HARD to believe, hell, even REFUSE to believe it.

 

[marathonfool]

You have a load of privilege that you need to sort out dude.

Blame the victim! Amirite.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Obviously you along with many others find it VERY HARD to believe, hell, even REFUSE to believe it.

I am almost positive that unless you hide under a rock or never watch TV or never listen to music, you most definitely know that 'gay', 'fag', and 'faggot' do refer to gay people.

 

[Devolution]

Some people get WAY too PC about everyday language...

a sizeable portion of folks used the word "faggot" in a way that was synonymous with "bitch," "asshole," "jerkoff," etc. It wasn't used in a homophobic context, but as a general insult.

It's common sense, but some folks LOVE to get up a pedestal and talk down to people who disagree with changing facets of their dialect to appease people's consciences.

More like some people are too damn lazy or not sensitive enough to those who are actually marginalized by certain slurs. It shouldn't take much effort to just think about your common vernacular and how some words might need to be removed just for a better and more civil society. It's not that big of a deal either, it's all part of growing up and communicating with others.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Ok I'm going say something potentially bad.

Could it just be that this is a sign that society is making a step in the right direction? First the word was just a purely bad connotation, now its still an insult but honestly not as bad and repercussions are being dealt out, so the next step can only be better. Right?

 

[Kalnos]

You have a load of privilege that you need to sort out dude.

SAY PRIVILEGE AGAIN, I DARE YOU, I DOUBLE DARE YOU MOTHERFUCKER

 

[renitou]

Stupid thing to say.

Fun fact: nearly everyone who complained about Kobe in this thread has also called something "retarded" at some point or another. No one is clean. All dirty.

Dirty, dirty dirty.

 

[Joates]

You have a load of privilege that you need to sort out dude.

I think you are making the mistake of assuming Im one of the people throwing the slurs around. Im not. But Im not so PC that I bitch and moan everytime someone makes a gay comment. Because usually its in an innocent context. I know, there can be no innocent context to you guys. But guess what, I dont view everyone as having ill intent towards gays.

I also fully support gay marriage.

And do you people really believe that the use of gay slurs as insults is what is really holding the gay rights movement back, youre crazy.


We could stop using it as a slur tomorrow and people would still feel hatred simply because theyre different.

 

[BakedPigeon]

More like some people are too damn lazy or not sensitive enough to those who are actually marginalized by certain slurs. It shouldn't take much effort to just think about your common vernacular and how some words might need to be removed just for a better and more civil society. It's not that big of a deal either, it's all part of growing up and communicating with others.

Your right, its not that big of a deal. so why are you complaining about it?

 

[Devolution]

I think you are making the mistake of assuming Im one of the people throwing the slurs around. Im not. But Im not so PC that I bitch and moan everytime someone makes a gay comment. Because usually its in an innocent context. I know, there can be no innocent context to you guys. But guess what, I dont view everyone as having ill intent towards gays.

I also fully support gay marriage.

And do you people really believe that the use of gay slurs as insults is what is really holding the gay rights movement back, youre crazy.


We could stop using it as a slur tomorrow and people would still feel hatred simply because theyre different.

You honestly think that the use of "faggot" and "that's so gay" doesn't link homosexuality with ugliness, things that are bad and or different?

Because that's the problem with using those terms as people commonly do. Even if the person saying them doesn't think there is a connection, there is a wealth of people who do. We are not in a post-homophobic society by any stretch, why would people want to use language that denigrates another group of people?

Your right, its not that big of a deal. so why are you complaining about it?

See above. Also you apparently missed the entire point of the post you quoted.

 

[theDeeDubs]

I think you are making the mistake of assuming Im one of the people throwing the slurs around. Im not. But Im not so PC that I bitch and moan everytime someone makes a gay comment. Because usually its in an innocent context. I know, there can be no innocent context to you guys. But guess what, I dont view everyone as having ill intent towards gays.

I also fully support gay marriage.

And do you people really believe that the use of gay slurs as insults is what is really holding the gay rights movement back, youre crazy.


We could stop using it as a slur tomorrow and people would still feel hatred simply because theyre different.

It's sad that rationality is so rare these days. Well said.

 

[DECK'ARD]

My point was that "faggot" should be completely acceptable with that connotation. It's only a horrible word because we, like with other racial slurs, let it be. I sincerely hope that in 50 years, oppression of most minority groups will be negligible and people will be throwing around the words "faggot" and "nigger" and whatever else to mean who knows what.

Oh I agree, and I expect in 50 years we will be at that point and these words won't have the power they currently do.

But while minority groups are marginalised, or the subject of hate, you have to try and get rid of the tools for that bigotry. And language is quite a powerful tool, because if it's acceptable to discriminate by that then by extension it lends justification for discrimination in other ways.

Attacking the use of language is a good step in changing perceptions of what is acceptable. Which goes back to the subject of the thread.

 

[Fenderputty]

No matter how angry I get I'm NEVER ever going to call a black person a "nigger." You're right. The fact that Kobe used "faggot" as his go to insult says a lot about him.

Why? I'm sure you've been conditioned from a very young age to know that "nigger" is a horrible word and should never be used. Much much more so than the words "fag" or "gay".

At least that's the way it was for me. Growing up as a child it was used pretty much for everything. It wasn't used to portray femininity or any such thing as that. It was used as a negative though. It's become a part of people's common speech much more so than the word "nigger".

Now, that doesn't mean Kobe should say what he said. That also doesn't mean that it should be accepted by society as a common word, because it clearly shouldn't. I'm not a kid anymore and grew up to have my views on the world change. I became very close to a couple gay men and my long process of being unconditioned began. It took a long time though and I still catch myself occasionally. That doesn't mean I don't understand my mistake though.

That being said ... the term was used in the heat of the moment, when one can easily slip. I don't think that should reflect anything one way or the other about the person.

 

[Souldriver]

But its being used to insult that particular person as a personal attack, oftentimes when the person isnt even gay. Its not like every time someone says a gay slur it is meant to harm gays. But apparently people want it to be directed at gays.

Ive got news for you all. Using slurs only hurts the person if they let them hurt them. Especially when context and intent are taken into consideration.

So while there is a whole array of words referring to homosexuals (gay, fag, ...) used to insult people, there is no link with homosexuality. It's just a synonym for asshole or douchebag, but people don't use asshole or douchebag instead. What an odd coincidence.


And the last part of your post kills any possible discussion, and makes any argument moot, including yours about the incomparability between the words fag and nigger, the importance of context and intent, and so on.

Mind you, I still think that in essence we don't really differ of opinion all that much: intent and context do matter, and I also think that people can use the word "faggot" out of ignorance rather than out of pure hate, and that the former is less bad than the latter. However, the further this topic goes along, the more you seem to edge (and are pushed) towards a more extreme POV, and don't accept any idea as to why the gay community finds the words "fag" and "that's fucking gay" offensive.

 

[X26]

"Oh big deal, he didn't mean anything by it and people say worse things all the time" etc. etc. People really seem to be glossing over the fact that he was at WORK. I call someone a faggot at my workplace and regardless of context or intent, if it gets to HR I'm in deep shit and possibly even fired.

 

[MightyHealthy]

More like some people are too damn lazy or not sensitive enough to those who are actually marginalized by certain slurs. It shouldn't take much effort to just think about your common vernacular and how some words might need to be removed just for a better and more civil society. It's not that big of a deal either, it's all part of growing up and communicating with others.

Well of course, I grew up and use less foul language than I used to...but I think people are naive, if they think that every usage of the word faggot was incorporated into a homophobic gesture.

Some teenagers are always going to adopt offensive words and use them with a false sense of irony...I don't agree with it, but that's how it is. The context and setting for the usage of these words is FAR more important. Public figures, politicians, administrators...they use these words, I'm worried. Joe Schmo with his drinking buddies...I don't really give a shit.

A community that turns its back to hate crimes is far more worrisome than a community that uses poor language.

 

[CrankyJay]

That they've had the privilege of throwing those words around without regard for other people. Or they've had the privilege of other people keeping their mouths shut and not outright telling them, "dude that's not cool."

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[Joates]

You honestly think that the use of "faggot" and "that's so gay" doesn't link homosexuality with ugliness, things that are bad and or different?

Because that's the problem with using those terms as people commonly do. Even if the person saying them doesn't think there is a connection, there is a wealth of people who do. We are not in a post-homophobic society by any stretch, why would people want to use language that denigrates another group of people?




See above. Also you apparently missed the entire point of the post you quoted.

No, but seeing that you link the two, its easier to see how you get to your viewpoint...

Like I said, gay people are "different" and as such there will be a lot growing pains becoming viewed as a normal part of society. Not saying I agree with it or that its right, but its true.

To say that its the usage of the language and labels that is holding back the movement? LOL

Let me ask you this, were black people not referred to as niggers post civil rights movement?

Its not the words, its the ideas toward the people their referring to (in your context).

 

[vas_a_morir]

I hate the term "homophobic."

ESPN keeps saying "Kobe Bryant made a homophobic remark." What does homophobic even mean? I'm pretty sure he said an "asshole remark," but was it really homophobic?

Homophobic must simply mean "disapproving of gays" rather than actually meaning what the name would imply.

 

[DECK'ARD]

We could stop using it as a slur tomorrow and people would still feel hatred simply because theyre different.

Nice strawman argument.

If we stopped using it tomorrow, there would still be decades of negative connotations to undo. People feel hatred when they are different when that difference is perceived to be bad. And when language is constantly used in that way it just perpetuates that mindset.

Change that mindset and you'd get less people perceiving that difference to be a bad thing, and less people on the hateful end of it.

 

[Fenderputty]

"Oh big deal, he didn't mean anything by it and people say worse things all the time" etc. etc. People really seem to be glossing over the fact that he was at WORK. I call someone a faggot at my workplace and regardless of context or intent, if it gets to HR I'm in deep shit and possibly even fired.

Your work involves running around tossing a ball towards a hoop? You ever been to a sports game? I would be fired for 90% of the crap that comes out of their mouths. Unless trash talking is a part of your job, this argument fails miserably.

 

[Buckethead]

Will he change his number again?

 

[JLG-]

HRC Praises Bryant for Embracing "Teachable Moment"

Washington – In a pre-game phone call to HRC president Joe Solmonese just moments ago, Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant apologized for using a homophobic slur. Bryant expressed understanding and regret for how his words were hurtful and could be used by some to discriminate.

The following is a statement from HRC’s Solmonese:

“I applaud Kobe Bryant for his swift apology. We had a very sincere conversation in which he expressed his heartfelt regret for the hurt that his words caused. He told me that it’s never ok to degrade or tease, and that he understands how his words could unfortunately give the wrong impression that this is appropriate conduct. At the end of a difficult day, I applaud Kobe for coming forward and taking responsibility for his actions.”

The Human Rights Campaign is America’s largest civil rights organization working to achieve lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender equality. By inspiring and engaging all Americans, HRC strives to end discrimination against LGBT citizens and realize a nation that achieves fundamental fairness and equality for all.

http://kb24.com/2011/04/13/hrc-praises-bryant-for-embracing-“teachable-moment”/

/thread

 

[Margalis]

If language constantly reinforces the notion that being gay is a bad thing or that gay people are lesser people then yes, that does hold gay people back.

Now, no, that's not the ONLY thing that holds them back, but it is very much a thing. Language is how thought is expressed and as such a very powerful thing.

 

[CrankyJay]

I hate the term "homophobic."

ESPN keeps saying "Kobe Bryant made a homophobic remark." What does homophobic even mean? I'm pretty sure he said an "asshole remark," but was it really homophobic?

Homophobic must simply mean "disapproving of gays" rather than actually meaning what the name would imply.

Um...he used the word "faggot". It's a derogatory term used in a homophobic sense. There's no other way around it.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

/thread

This is good.

 

[Koomaster]

Can't believe so many are defending hate speech in any fashion. That also wasn't an apology by Kobe as he doesn't understand that saying things in the 'heat of the moment' is not an excuse. That's really all he offered, a shitty excuse.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

I think it's bad... but I can totally understand how something like that can happen. When you're frustrated and annoyed it's easy to slip up with words.

During my youth (I'm an Australian) it was common in school for people to get bulled and called the 'f' word (not fuck) and it became common use for a long time. Anyone who was gay or was expected to be gay got absolutely pummled. It was terrible! I was horribly bullied in both primary school and secondary school and during year 5 and 6 in primary school I had only one friend who was a guy. We got called all sorts of names. Secondary school as well, I got called it early on as well (I'm absolutely straight) because I had never been with a girl at that point (bullying does fucking horrible things to your self esteem and confidence and girls don't like a woosy).

Anyway... I sympathise very much with being teased in this way, it's damn well horrible... however because the word used to be thrown around so much as just a 'slur' without necessarily being a bigot, it still slips out of peoples mouths. Recently it has become far less acceptable to say this sort of thing (like the N word). In the end, I have no problem with Kobe saying this - I mean, it is definitely bad but he's copping worse backlash than I think he deserves.

 

[CrankyJay]

/thread

Wait, did Kobe issue a separate apology? Because that first press release he did sort of fell short.

 

[hyduK]

Who gives a shit?

 

[ColonialRaptor]

Can't believe so many are defending hate speech in any fashion. That also wasn't an apology by Kobe as he doesn't understand that saying things in the 'heat of the moment' is not an excuse. That's really all he offered, a shitty excuse.

How else is he going to explain it away though?

Say he meant it? Then he would be labelled a bigot.

He fucked up, he knows it - he apologized, what else would you expect him to do!? I think he's done the right thing and I honestly think he's being way to harshly treated for it.

 

[J2 Cool]

I think it's bad... but I can totally understand how something like that can happen. When you're frustrated and annoyed it's easy to slip up with words.

During my youth (I'm an Australian) it was common in school for people to get bulled and called the 'f' word (not fuck) and it became common use for a long time. Anyone who was gay or was expected to be gay got absolutely pummled. It was terrible! I was horribly bullied in both primary school and secondary school and during year 5 and 6 in primary school I had only one friend who was a guy. We got called all sorts of names. Secondary school as well, I got called it early on as well (I'm absolutely straight) because I had never been with a girl at that point (bullying does fucking horrible things to your self esteem and confidence and girls don't like a woosy).

Anyway... I sympathise very much with being teased in this way, it's damn well horrible... however because the word used to be thrown around so much as just a 'slur' without necessarily being a bigot, it still slips out of peoples mouths. Recently it has become far less acceptable to say this sort of thing (like the N word). In the end, I have no problem with Kobe saying this - I mean, it is definitely bad but he's copping worse backlash than I think he deserves.

Most reasonable post in this thread.