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[travisbickle]

Homophobic must simply mean "disapproving of gays" rather than actually meaning what the name would imply.

Yes, it actually means an irrational fear of gay people. If you are homophobic you jump onto a chair whenever a gay person walks into the room, and you try try to shoo them away with broom.

 

[CrankyJay]

Who gives a shit?

Do your own research and find out.

 

[Fenderputty]

Can't believe so many are defending hate speech in any fashion. That also wasn't an apology by Kobe as he doesn't understand that saying things in the 'heat of the moment' is not an excuse. That's really all he offered, a shitty excuse.

I wonder how many people saying this also thought it was stupid for the BYU professor to get fired for cursing in the heat of the moment?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=425033

 

[blame space]

anyone that identifies so strongly with a word or a set of words to the point that those words are on a personal "never use"/"get offended if others use" list either a) fails to understand that most people are really fucking stupid and expects the average person to actually think about words that they use or b) believes that making a word a "cause" will help to change public thought.

i can almost identify with the people that believe making certain words taboo, at least in their company, is somehow helping educate people. unfortunately, though, this is as effective at plugging your ears and shouting LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU THAT IS OFFENSIVE.

i am against negative actions towards people for undeserved reasons. i am against hate, i am against the bigoted statements and actions and thoughts that i perceive far too many people to hold.

what i'm also against, though, is unnecessary polarization. there ARE things that deserve to be polarized; homophobic actions DO fall into that category. but people don't think about words that they say.. they really don't. it's impulsive, which is the reason language is always changing and evolving. people say or write words to mean things, to articulate thoughts; not to have feelings.

basically, if Kobe Bryant screams out FAGGOT in a fit of rage while playing basketballs.. so fucking what? a man who is in the public eye for playing basketball at a professional level got angry and said a word that is taboo. why do you care? is it because you think it perpetuates hatred towards gay people? if anyone's opinion of gay people is actually affected by Kobe Bryant using a homosexual slur, i have news for you: they are never EVER going to give a shit.

meanwhile, gay people still can't get married. and many, many men and women that are in the public eye because they've been sworn to uphold justice and citizen's rights are actively campaigning to keep gay people from being married. THIS is homophobia, and that's a problem. you can help change society if you take a stand against ignorant actions, but taking a stand against ignorant words always strikes me as futile at best.

EDIT: this post is incoherent as fuck

 

[Gaborn]

If language constantly reinforces the notion that being gay is a bad thing or that gay people are lesser people then yes, that does hold gay people back.

Now, no, that's not the ONLY thing that holds them back, but it is very much a thing. Language is how thought is expressed and as such a very powerful thing.

 

[X26]

Your work involves running around tossing a ball towards a hoop? You ever been to a sports game? I would be fired for 90% of the crap that comes out of their mouths. Unless trash talking is a part of your job, this argument fails miserably.

It's irrelevant, it's still a job and within the organization and the league as a whole they have policies against things like this. And just like any other organization, lots of minor stuff never gets addressed because it doesn't need to be (standard trash talking in the nba, for example). Kobe's action went beyond that if for no other reason it was captured on camera (and whether that's "fair" or not is also irrelevant), and he was penalized for it, simple as that.

Either you've never had a job or hold professional athletes in far too high a regard

 

[Rocket Punch]

Well, I totally understand and I don't know what the big deal is. I mean sometimes when I'm really upset I'm know to yell out: " Fucking Ni***r!!".

I'm sure everybody understands that I'm not a racist prick. I just get caught up in the moment and it just comes out. Besides I apologize right after I say it, so it's all cool, AM I RITE?

 

[CrankyJay]

How else is he going to explain it away though?

Say he meant it? Then he would be labelled a bigot.

He fucked up, he knows it - he apologized, what else would you expect him to do!? I think he's done the right thing and I honestly think he's being way to harshly treated for it.

Don't apologies usually include the word "sorry" or "apologize"?

 

[theDeeDubs]

I hate the term "homophobic."

I agree. If someone disagrees with the lifestyle due to say religious reasons, why are they phobic? Why is their belief and value ignorant? Shouldn't you value their opinion just like you want them to value your's? I'm not implying that Kobe made the remark due to his religious beliefs or anything of that nature. I just see it as equally offensive to call someone ignorant just because they have a different opinion than you.

 

[dream]

anyone that identifies so strongly with a word or a set of words to the point those words are on a personal "never use"/"get offended if others use" list either a) fails to understand that most people are really fucking stupid and expects the average person to actually think about words that they use or b) believes that making a word a "cause" will help to change public thought.

i can almost identify with the people that believe making certain words taboo, at least in their company, is somehow helping educate people. unfortunately, though, this is as effective at plugging your ears and shouting LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU THAT IS OFFENSIVE.

i am against negative actions towards people for undeserved reasons. i am against hate, i am against the bigoted statements and actions and thoughts that i perceive far too many people to hold.

what i'm also against, though, is unnecessary polarization. there ARE things that deserve to be polarized; homophobic actions DO fall into that category. but people don't think about words that they say.. they really don't. it's impulsive, which is the reason language is always changing and evolving. people say or write words to mean things, to articulate thoughts; not to have feelings.

basically, if Kobe Bryant screams out FAGGOT in a fit of rage while playing basketballs.. so fucking what? a man who is in the public eye for playing basketball at a professional level got angry and said a word that is taboo. why do you care? is it because you think it perpetuates hatred towards gay people? if anyone's opinion of gay people is actually affected by Kobe Bryant using a homosexual slur, i have news for you: they are never EVER going to give a shit.

meanwhile, gay people still can't get married. and many, many men and women that are in the public eye because they've been sworn to uphold justice and citizen's rights are actively campaigning to keep gay people from being married. THIS is homophobia, and that's a problem. you can help change society if you take a stand against ignorant actions, but taking a stand against ignorant words always strikes me as futile at best.

blame space is generally my favorite poster and this post sums up why.

 

[CrankyJay]

I agree. If someone disagrees with the lifestyle due to say religious reasons, why are they phobic? Why is their belief and value ignorant? Shouldn't you value their opinion just like you want them to value your's? I'm not implying that Kobe made the remark due to his religious beliefs or anything of that nature. I just see it as equally offensive to call someone ignorant just because they have a different opinion than you.

You can disagree with their lifestyle without resorting to name calling or slurs.

 

[Margalis]

blame space is generally my favorite poster and this post sums up why.

My best guess: you both refuse to capitalize. Because his post didn't make a whole lot of sense.

is it because you think it perpetuates hatred towards gay people? if anyone's opinion of gay people is actually affected by Kobe Bryant using a homosexual slur, i have news for you: they are never EVER going to give a shit.

This is far too binary. No, it's not like all of America is going to think gay marriage is wrong because Kobe called a guy a fag but social normalization is a strong force. Media figures tend to reflect societal norms and in turn effect social normalization.

If major media figures are openly homophobic without repercussion that does apply a normalizing force counter to gay equality.

 

[mattiewheels]

I don't care if anything even comes of it with Kobe, but in my day to day, anyone who just lets 'fag' or any racial slur out randomly just because they're used to it goes on my list of people I can't really respect too much. You can't explain it away as harmless, there's a reason you use words like that.

 

[Mumei]

I agree. If someone disagrees with the lifestyle due to say religious reasons, why are they phobic? Why is their belief and value ignorant? Shouldn't you value their opinion just like you want them to value your's? I'm not implying that Kobe made the remark due to his religious beliefs or anything of that nature. I just see it as equally offensive to call someone ignorant just because they have a different opinion than you.

Well it certainly looks like they've got an irrational fear of the gays.

No. Society has already made this known I thought. I also thought they came to a different conclusion for gay slurs...

Once upon a time, it was socially acceptable to use racial slurs (and not in a "reclaiming the word" or "ironic in-group usage" sense). That doesn't mean that that was right. Similarly, just because there are contexts where it is socially acceptable to use gay slurs does not make that any more okay.

Pointing to social convention for why something is okay is not a good defense. Sometimes society thinks things are okay that aren't actually okay.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Like I said, gay people are "different" and as such there will be a lot growing pains becoming viewed as a normal part of society. Not saying I agree with it or that its right, but its true.

This is quite loaded.

They would automatically be viewed as a 'normal part of society' when being gay is seen as a normal thing for someone to be. You are painting the gay person as someone doomed to always be hated for their difference. That shouldn't be the case, and in time it won't be.

The left-handed person is now viewed as a normal part of society. We used to burn them for being witches.

 

[Souldriver]

Well, I totally understand and I don't know what the big deal is. I mean sometimes when I'm really upset I'm know to yell out: " Fucking Ni***r!!".

I'm sure everybody understands that I'm not a racist prick. I just get caught up in the moment and it just comes out. Besides I apologize right after I say it, so it's all cool, AM I RITE?

You single-handedly undermined the argument that Joates has been repeating this whole thread, namely that "nigger" can't be contextual like "faggot".

I agree. If someone disagrees with the lifestyle due to say religious reasons, why are they phobic? Why is their belief and value ignorant? Shouldn't you value their opinion just like you want them to value your's? I'm not implying that Kobe made the remark due to his religious beliefs or anything of that nature. I just see it as equally offensive to call someone ignorant just because they have a different opinion than you.

Your sexuality is not a belief or opinion. And disagreeing still doesn't call for slurs.

 

[theignoramus]

Yeah, that makes it all fine.

Everyone who's said the n-word just said "sowwiieeee!" *sad face*, we good?

what the fuck else do you want from him? community outreach? a duet with Elton John?

 

[Riposte]

Do people really get off on apologies? lol Such a bullshit practice and it is pretty shameful that we demand them of people we don't know. Like it makes a difference.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Geez relax people, you'd think the guy raped someone or something.

 

[Fenderputty]

It's irrelevant, it's still a job and within the organization and the league as a whole they have policies against things like this. And just like any other organization, lots of minor stuff never gets addressed because it doesn't need to be (standard trash talking in the nba, for example). Kobe's action went beyond that if for no other reason it was captured on camera (and whether that's "fair" or not is also irrelevant), and he was penalized for it, simple as that.

Either you've never had a job or hold professional athletes in far too high a regard

A. you must have missed the part where I said I would be fired for 90% of the things athletes say during a game.

B. you must have missed my intention. I hold their position in LOWER regard. They're entertainers. They shouldn't be idolized. I feel as though their on the job standards are lower than mine and as such get to use words I don't.

C. I'm totally fine with him being fined. I've said many times in this thread he was wrong for what he said.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

anyone that identifies so strongly with a word or a set of words to the point that those words are on a personal "never use"/"get offended if others use" list either a) fails to understand that most people are really fucking stupid and expects the average person to actually think about words that they use or b) believes that making a word a "cause" will help to change public thought.

i can almost identify with the people that believe making certain words taboo, at least in their company, is somehow helping educate people. unfortunately, though, this is as effective at plugging your ears and shouting LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU THAT IS OFFENSIVE.

i am against negative actions towards people for undeserved reasons. i am against hate, i am against the bigoted statements and actions and thoughts that i perceive far too many people to hold.

what i'm also against, though, is unnecessary polarization. there ARE things that deserve to be polarized; homophobic actions DO fall into that category. but people don't think about words that they say.. they really don't. it's impulsive, which is the reason language is always changing and evolving. people say or write words to mean things, to articulate thoughts; not to have feelings.

basically, if Kobe Bryant screams out FAGGOT in a fit of rage while playing basketballs.. so fucking what? a man who is in the public eye for playing basketball at a professional level got angry and said a word that is taboo. why do you care? is it because you think it perpetuates hatred towards gay people? if anyone's opinion of gay people is actually affected by Kobe Bryant using a homosexual slur, i have news for you: they are never EVER going to give a shit.

meanwhile, gay people still can't get married. and many, many men and women that are in the public eye because they've been sworn to uphold justice and citizen's rights are actively campaigning to keep gay people from being married. THIS is homophobia, and that's a problem. you can help change society if you take a stand against ignorant actions, but taking a stand against ignorant words always strikes me as futile at best.

EDIT: this post is incoherent as fuck

This is the perfect post and certainly deserves the post "/thread"

This is exactly how I feel and I didn't articulate it as well.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Do people really get off on apologies? lol Such a bullshit practice and it is pretty shameful that we demand them of people we don't know. Like it makes a difference.

Havent you figured it out yet? You can get away with anything in the world as long as you apologize for it. It makes it all better.

 

[davepoobond]

fucking kobe bryant fuck you you fucking asshole asshole asshole asshole

 

[Joates]

You single-handedly undermined the argument that Joates has been repeating this whole thread, namely that "nigger" can't be contextual like "faggot".


Your sexuality is not a belief or opinion. And disagreeing still doesn't call for slurs.

I never said nigger cant be contextual. Youll be MUCH more hard pressed to find context for it being ok. In societal view.

This is quite loaded.

They would automatically be viewed as a 'normal part of society' when being gay is seen as a normal thing for someone to be. You are painting the gay person as someone doomed to always be hated for their difference. That shouldn't be the case, and in time it won't be.

The left-handed person is now viewed as a normal part of society. We used to burn them for being witches.

What?

Did you see the part where I said growing pains, as in it wouldnt happen over night even if we stopped using the words altogether but it would in fact happen eventually.

 

[datruth29]

As far as I'm concerned, whenever a person is frustrated and upset to the extent that they just let shit fly, anything that comes out their mouth is complete and utter garbage, and is NOT to be taken as anything serious. Frankly, it's one of those things where you say or do something, and you don't even consider the ramifications of what you said because your not thinking in the proper state. It's like throwing a punch at a sandbag. When your calm and focused, the punches are smooth and correct. You make a person upset, and they try to throw that punch, I guarantee you he/she would probably injure their wrist in someway or another. In comparison to myself, I don't think I've ever used faggot on reflex, but saying the word in general makes me feel kinda weird. But I've definitely been guilty of saying other words.

 

[Souldriver]

I never said nigger cant be contextual. Youll be MUCH more hard pressed to find context for it being ok. In societal view.

In no context is either of the words okay, unless in discussions like this.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

I never said nigger cant be contextual. Youll be MUCH more hard pressed to find context for it being ok. In societal view.

It's acceptable when a black person calls another black person that word - very acceptable.

Is it acceptable for a gay person to call another gay person a faggot?

Why is it then so bad when Kobe says it in the heat of the moment without actually meaning it as a slur? It's the same sort of thing but I hate the double standards.

 

[Margalis]

Do people really get off on apologies? lol Such a bullshit practice and it is pretty shameful that we demand them of people we don't know. Like it makes a difference.

It does make a difference. The message being sent here is that Kobe, the NBA and the general public all agree that what he said was wrong. If there was no apology, no fine and no call for apology the message would instead be that what he said was perfectly fine.

Again, social normalization. In this case the norm is moving towards the day where using sexual orientation as an insult is viewed as unequivocally bigoted.

 

[daw840]

Hmmm, it seems to me if the HRC thinks the apology is good enough then why is everyone so pissed? Let it be, christ on a stick.

 

[JLG-]

fucking kobe bryant fuck you you fucking asshole asshole asshole asshole

What, are you assholaphobic? Figures.

 

[ZephyrFate]

It's acceptable when a black person calls another black person that word - very acceptable.

Is it acceptable for a gay person to call another gay person a faggot?

Why is it then so bad when Kobe says it in the heat of the moment without actually meaning it as a slur? It's the same sort of thing but I hate the double standards.

Just because he said it in a different context doesn't suddenly make the word okay. I don't see why people don't realize this.

 

[LQX]

fucking kobe bryant fuck you you fucking asshole asshole asshole asshole

Stop calling assholes people.

 

[Fenderputty]

Has anyone here said something they immediately regretted? It doesn't even need to be racial or have to do with sexual orientation. It could just be something mean. Something you apologized for. Does that represent who you are? Does that thing you regret saying reflect the type of person you are?

Everyone says stupid shit when they're enraged.

 

[davepoobond]

What, are you assholaphobic? Figures.

there are certain things that open and close that i am disgusted by.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

Just because he said it in a different context doesn't suddenly make the word okay. I don't see why people don't realize this.

No No No No, No way am I saying I think the word is okay.

I was simply responding to the comments of another.

There are contexts and uses were taboo words are used.

It's not okay for Kobe to say it. Did he say it? Yes, is it really as bad as it is being made out? NO FUCKING WAY.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I agree. If someone disagrees with the lifestyle due to say religious reasons, why are they phobic? Why is their belief and value ignorant? Shouldn't you value their opinion just like you want them to value your's? I'm not implying that Kobe made the remark due to his religious beliefs or anything of that nature. I just see it as equally offensive to call someone ignorant just because they have a different opinion than you.

Homophobia is more than just an irrational fear. It has a very broad definition that covers anti-gay sentiments.

And here we are with the "well bigots have an opinion too!" No, they really don't.

 

[Devolution]

No No No No, No way am I saying I think the word is okay.

I was simply responding to the comments of another.

There are contexts and uses were taboo words are used.

It's not okay for Kobe to say it. Did he say it? Yes, is it really as bad as it is being made out? NO FUCKING WAY.

I think more people in the thread have been incensed at the defense of people saying it and some people in here actually trying to insinuate the usage is actually okay in certain situations, than the Kobe situation itself.

That's why the thread exploded.

 

[Joates]

In no context is either of the words okay, unless in discussions like this.

So you support the new movement to censor Huck finn / tom sawyer and the likes, because the word should be expunged rather than discussed.... right.

 

[ZephyrFate]

So you support the new movement to censor Huck finn / tom sawyer and the likes, because the word should be expunged rather than discussed.... right.

There is a huge difference here. The word itself is very important to the novel and what its broader themes are. Social parlance =/= literary importance.

 

[Mumei]

I think more people in the thread have been incensed at the defense of people saying it and some people in here actually trying to insinuate the usage is actually okay in certain situations, than the Kobe situation itself.

That's why the thread exploded.

Correct.

If we could all agree that his usage was inappropriate, that'd be one thing. But there were people saying that there was nothing objectionable about calling someone a faggot, and that's what the arguments are about.

 

[Masked Man]

ITT: People who use homophobic slurs defend basketball player who uses homophobic slurs.

Move along here people.

Yeah, that's the impression that I got.

 

[Joates]

There is a huge difference here. The word itself is very important to the novel and what its broader themes are. Social parlance =/= literary importance.

OHHHHH I get it now. Context only matters when you say it does. Fuck off Zephyr. You are unbelievable.

 

[blame space]

You can disagree with their lifestyle without resorting to name calling or slurs.

this is such backwards bullshit. you CAN'T disagree with their lifestyle using any logic or reason. you CAN use words, even words that hold a social taboo, to present ideas.. you can make people think about the words that they use to express negative, ignorant feelings.

sometimes when i hear people i don't know very well make a statement around casual acquaintances that i think stems from hatred, i say (loudly and dripping with the most biting sarcasm i can muster) "RIGHT, FUCKING [most offensive word i can think of to tap into their perceived hatred]!"

i am very good at lying and being sarcastic, which is why i do that: their reaction is SO FUCKING TELLING. a person who put little to no thought into what they said is taken aback, usually apologetic or embarrassed that their casual nomenclature stirred such fervent passion into someone they barely know. the others, though.. they are the ones you have to worry about. the ones that respond positively, with the "yeah this guy gets it!" reaction. this is the guy that truly, at the base of every thought he potentially has, holds prejudice towards his fellow man for reasons that defy logic or reason or humanity.

they are more common than you think, and they are so, so much more important to draw attention to than anything-controversial-i-do-will-make-the-news Kobe Bryant screaming "faggot", even if he is one of them.

 

[ZephyrFate]

OHHHHH I get it now. Context only matters when you say it does. Fuck off Zephyr. You are unbelievable.

Way to completely not understand what I said. You're fucking ridiculous. Go back to defending your 'context'.

 

[Devolution]

OHHHHH I get it now. Context only matters when you say it does. Fuck off Zephyr. You are unbelievable.

Are you seriously comparing the social/historical context of "nigger" in Mark Twain's novel with some one calling another person a "faggot" in contemporary times?

For fuck's sake you can't be this ridiculous.

 

[Joates]

Way to completely not understand what I said. You're fucking ridiculous. Go back to defending your 'context'.

Well youve stated many times that it doesnt matter what the context is, its always hate filler rhetoric aimed at debasing the gay rights movement. Unless you feel the context backs the intent you want.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Are you seriously comparing the social/historical context of "nigger" in Mark Twain's novel with some one calling another person a "faggot" in contemporary times?

For fuck's sake you can't be this ridiculous.

Weren't you guys saying before about that word also having historical meaning in the past?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Well youve stated many times that it doesnt matter what the context is, its always hate filler rhetoric aimed at debasing the gay rights movement. Unless you feel the context backs the intent you want.

IN TERMS of Huck Finn it has an important historical basis that places the book within a certain time period and emphasizes the importance of the word while at the same time it's a critique of racism. There is NO connection between that and contemporary usage.

 

[Souldriver]

So you support the new movement to censor Huck finn / tom sawyer and the likes, because the word should be expunged rather than discussed.... right.

Yeaaah no, and you could simply deduct that from my post.

Like you say, the book is a document of history, and should be read and discussed. I said that the uttering of words like faggot and nigger by us is only okay if you're actually discussing the words themselves and the context they are/were used in. NOT if you use them as an insult, specifically directed to black people and gays or not.

 

[DECK'ARD]

What?

Did you see the part where I said growing pains, as in it wouldnt happen over night even if we stopped using the words altogether but it would in fact happen eventually.

I thought you meant their own growing pains, not society's.