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[Joates]

When I was in elementary school, myself and classmates often used the term "Jewish" in place of gay comments in this thread.

Now I know you would want to say Im some hate filled anti-semite, but guess what It was merely another word in our vocab that was synonymous with uncool.

Its the same way with gay vernacular whether you refuse to believe it or not.

People dont always think before the speak. Your assuming they should mull over every connotation for fear of offending people, but thats not reality. Maybe you should join us in reality and accept facts.

 

[Devolution]

Well youve stated many times that it doesnt matter what the context is, its always hate filler rhetoric aimed at debasing the gay rights movement. Unless you feel the context backs the intent you want.

When it's used as a disparaging remark it is always hate fueled rhetoric, that doesn't mean it's exempt from usage in a discussion.

When I was in elementary school, myself and classmates often used the term "Jewish" in place of gay comments in this thread.

Now I know you would want to say Im some hate filled anti-semite, but guess what It was merely another word in our vocab that was synonymous with uncool.

Its the same way with gay vernacular whether you refuse to believe it or not.

People dont always think before the speak. Your assuming they should mull over every connotation for fear of offending people, but thats not reality. Maybe you should join us in reality and accept facts.

Yes we can expect better, that's the whole damn point.

 

[ZephyrFate]

When I was in elementary school, myself and classmates often used the term "Jewish" in place of gay comments in this thread.

Now I know you would want to say Im some hate filled anti-semite, but guess what It was merely another word in our vocab that was synonymous with uncool.

Its the same way with gay vernacular whether you refuse to believe it or not.

People dont always think before the speak. Your assuming they should mull over every connotation for fear of offending people, but thats not reality. Maybe you should join us in reality and accept facts.

Faggot, fag, and gay cannot be divorced from their sexuality basis no matter how much you wanna say otherwise, in the same way you cannot divorce nigger from its racial basis.

 

[blame space]

This is far too binary. No, it's not like all of America is going to think gay marriage is wrong because Kobe called a guy a fag but social normalization is a strong force. Media figures tend to reflect societal norms and in turn effect social normalization.

If major media figures are openly homophobic without repercussion that does apply a normalizing force counter to gay equality.

sounds like your problem is not with homophobia, but with social normalization and media figures' effect on stupid people.

saying "propaganda is making people support the war, and that's wrong" is much more futile than just saying "supporting the war is wrong"

 

[Joates]

Faggot, fag, and gay cannot be divorced from their sexuality basis no matter how much you wanna say otherwise, in the same way you cannot divorce nigger from its racial basis.

Only the first 3 words you listed actually do have other definitions...

 

[Margalis]

When I was in elementary school, myself and classmates often used the term "Jewish" in place of gay comments in this thread.

Now I know you would want to say Im some hate filled anti-semite, but guess what It was merely another word in our vocab that was synonymous with uncool.

I'm not going to jump all over you, but I'd ask you to consider the following:

1. Why exactly do you think "Jewish" became synonymous with "uncool" historically? Could the reasons have something to do with common Jewish stereotypes? (Bookish, worrywarts, etc)

2. How do you think that makes Jewish people feel?

3. Now that you are an adult (or at least older) with a working understanding of language and the history of Jewish people do you still consider that appropriate?

Kobe isn't in elementary school. Yeah, kids say dumb things. Kobe isn't 12.

 

[Foxtastical]

This is silly. Sorry, I care more about Arizona Senator Jon Kyl lying than what Kobe has done here. The shell is not as important as the content behind language.

 

[blame space]

man i was banned for this once before, but South Park really fucking nailed this one.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Only the first 3 words you listed actually do have other definitions...

Yet they are rarely if ever used that way anymore.

 

[Game-Biz]

Californication must be like uber offensive to some of you guys then...

 

[Londa]

And then there's the fact that I'm ten years old, so the whole idea is pretty meaningless

Baby you was born this way

I couldn't pass this up.

 

[Gaborn]

When I was in elementary school, myself and classmates often used the term "Jewish" in place of gay comments in this thread.

Now I know you would want to say Im some hate filled anti-semite, but guess what It was merely another word in our vocab that was synonymous with uncool.

Its the same way with gay vernacular whether you refuse to believe it or not.

People dont always think before the speak. Your assuming they should mull over every connotation for fear of offending people, but thats not reality. Maybe you should join us in reality and accept facts.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Perhaps Mr. Bryant needs to grow up.

 

[Mumei]

Yes, TangMen summed up the topic nicely.

OHHHHH I get it now. Context only matters when you say it does. Fuck off Zephyr. You are unbelievable.

Er... The difference is that he explained why that context was relevant and why the usage of nigger in that story is different than someone using it as a slur; it is important to the novel and its broader themes. I don't know if he's right, since I haven't read the story, but he's at least presented something you can argue against - you can, if you think he's wrong, attempt to argue that the usage in the novel is just as offensive.

In contrast, you haven't explained how someone is supposed to tell the difference between someone calling someone else a faggot and meaning it as a slur referring to gay people and using it as an interchangeable word for 'motherfucker, douchebag, what have you.' Given that the word 'fag' is a slur used by adolescent boys for the purposes of gender policing, and the word used is a slur for a group of people for whom being effeminate is one of the biggest stereotypes they are faced with, it seems more than slightly disingenuous to pretend that there's no connection.

You've also failed to explain how when you call someone a faggot because you think that they are being stupid you aren't just reinforcing bigotry by using a slur as your word of choice.

 

[MIMIC]

Faggot, fag, and gay cannot be divorced from their sexuality basis no matter how much you wanna say otherwise, in the same way you cannot divorce nigger from its racial basis.

lol gay didn't always mean homosexual.

 

[Joates]

Yet they are rarely if ever used that way anymore.

And I would argue they arent always intended as slurs towards gays either.

You accept that the words have different meanings but refuse to believe they can ever be used as such.

 

[SlipperySlope]

The PC crowd annoys me to no extent. That's all I'll say on this topic.

 

[Zeliard]

Please, Jordan calls Kwame Brown a "Flaming F****T" and nothing..

K Mart calls Cuban a "F****T" again not a peep from the media..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x9-BpuKEa4

Kobe says it, bang front page news.

What he said is always an awful thing to say, but this is just too true.

MJ in particular is one of the biggest assholes in the history of sports yet gets away with it almost completely due to his talent and marketability as a guy kids want to emulate.

 

[Joates]

Yes, TangMen summed up the topic nicely.



Er... The difference is that he explained why that context was relevant and why the usage of nigger in that story is different than someone using it as a slur; it is important to the novel and its broader themes. I don't know if he's right, since I haven't read the story, but he's at least presented something you can argue against - you can, if you think he's wrong, attempt to argue that the usage in the novel is just as offensive.

In contrast, you haven't explained how someone is supposed to tell the difference between someone calling someone else a faggot and meaning it as a slur referring to gay people and using it as an interchangeable word for 'motherfucker, douchebag, what have you.' Given that the word 'fag' is a slur used by adolescent boys for the purposes of gender policing, and the word used is a slur for a group of people for whom being effeminate is one of the biggest stereotypes they are faced with, it seems more than slightly disingenuous to pretend that there's no connection.

Oh but its not disingenuous to pretend that theres always the connection


[/QUOTE]


You've also failed to explain how when you call someone a faggot because you think that they are being stupid you aren't just reinforcing bigotry by using a slur as your word of choice.[/QUOTE]

Ive went over it multiple times in this thread. Its called CONTEXT. Its the other words said around the attention-grabber.

 

[Gaborn]

The PC crowd annoys me to no extent. That's all I'll say on this topic.

Wear this t-shirt in any neighborhood and talk to me about the "PC crowd"

 

[Souldriver]

man i was banned for this once before, but South Park really fucking nailed this one.

South Park only nailed it if it were possible to reset language and give strict definitions to words. In reality trying to promote "fag" as a synonym for "asshole" while there are just as many people promoting the word as an insult for homosexuals, just leaves us with this: faggot, fag, gay = an insulting word used for assholes and homosexuals.


Whoopie, what a great position for homosexuals to be in.

 

[ZephyrFate]

lol gay didn't always mean homosexual.

Yet when is it ever used in any other definition anymore?

b-b-but it once meant something different! has no place in this discussion

 

[blame space]

If major media figures are openly homophobic without repercussion that does apply a normalizing force counter to gay equality.

this is driving me crazy

• Kobe Bryant is a major media figure
  
• he is openly homophobic for saying "faggot" (that was it, right? honestly when i read the OP a few hours ago it wasn't clear to me)
  
• REPERCUSSION! what is the repercussion? we're all discussing it? all that does is bring attention to what basically amounts to a temper tantrum. i say shit that i don't mean or even think about when i'm pissed off. sometimes it doesn't even make sense.
  
• NORMALIZING FORCE COUNTER this sounds like it's straight out of Final Fantasy
  
• and finally, gay equality cannot exist if people continue to use the word "faggot"

faggot faggot faggot i'm a faggot you're a faggot

p.s. i like dudes so

 

[boutrosinit]

Please, Jordan calls Kwame Brown a "Flaming F****T" and nothing..

K Mart calls Cuban a "F****T" again not a peep from the media..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x9-BpuKEa4

Kobe says it, bang front page news.

Racist media.

 

[Joates]

South Park only nailed it if it were possible to reset language and give strict definitions to words. In reality trying to promote "fag" as a synonym for "asshole" while there are just as many people promoting the word as an insult for homosexuals, just leaves us with this: faggot, fag, gay = an insulting word used for assholes and homosexuals.


Whoopie, what a great position for homosexuals to be in.

This is where I disagree with you. If people only used the word when directing towards gays as slurs, you would hear it a hell of a lot less.

 

[Mumei]

Ive went over it multiple times in this thread. Its called CONTEXT. Its the other words said around the attention-grabber.

Context is not a magical word. You have to explain how the context makes a difference. Zephyr explained that. You haven't.

 

[ZephyrFate]

This is where I disagree with you. If people only used the word when directing towards gays as slurs, you would hear it a hell of a lot less.

If you believe this then you must really think the world is a lot less homophobic than it actually is. Can I live in your world?

 

[blame space]

South Park only nailed it if it were possible to reset language and give strict definitions to words. In reality trying to promote "fag" as a synonym for "asshole" while there are just as many people promoting the word as an insult for homosexuals, just leaves us with this: faggot, fag, gay = an insulting word used for assholes and homosexuals.


Whoopie, what a great position for homosexuals to be in.

people don't PROMOTE words, they spew them as fast as their brain provides them. this is ever-increasingly true..

with more and more people using more and more offensive words without even thinking about them first, how can we truly fight hatred and injustice?

oh, by stepping up our "THAT WORD IS NOT OK" game!

 

[IsntChrisL]

I'm a little surprised how many of you are so up in arms about this. Language changes based on how people use it and it just so happens that a lot of people use "faggot" for people that they just don't like. It doesn't make it right, it's still a slur. It also doesn't make it an attack on a whole group of people either.

 

[Joates]

Context is not a magical word. You have to explain how the context makes a difference. Zephyr explained that. You haven't.

If I have to show how context makes a difference you need to go back to grade school.

We have different views on "innocent" usage of the words. Why dont we just leave it at that.

 

[Margalis]

What is the "CONTEXT" here?

Pro sports as a whole are pretty homophobic? Isn't that part of the context?

It's not like Kobe said "man, I can't believe some people use 'faggot' as an insult! That's terrible!" That would be extenuating context. The context here is just a guy got mad and called someone else a faggot.

Anyway, comments from ex-NBA gay player:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2011-04-13-johnamaechi_N.htm

 

[MIMIC]

Yet when is it ever used in any other definition anymore?

b-b-but it once meant something different! has no place in this discussion

The way it was used TODAY was not sexuality-based.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I'm a little surprised how many of you are so up in arms about this. Language changes based on how people use it and it just so happens that a lot of people use "faggot" for people that they just don't like. It doesn't make it right, it's still a slur. It also doesn't make it an attack on a whole group of people either.

It doesn't remove the fact that it is a slur if a bunch of people use it for a different reason. If that were true, then white people would be able to say the word nigger, as long as they invented another definition for it.

 

[Gaborn]

If I have to show how context makes a difference you need to go back to grade school.

We have different views on "innocent" usage of the words. Why dont we just leave it at that.

Kobe Bryant is not an innocent. He's an adult public figure that gets paid millions of dollars as the face of one of the most iconic franchises in sports. Let's be clear the ONLY reason he was not suspended is the league doesn't want to lose one of it's super stars for even one playoff game.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

If you believe this then you must really think the world is a lot less homophobic than it actually is. Can I live in your world?

It may not be that great but its a start. You're focusing to much on the negative and that'll get you nowhere.

 

[blame space]

believe it or not, white people are in fact able to say "nigger".

 

[Souldriver]

This is where I disagree with you. If people only used the word when directing towards gays as slurs, you would hear it a hell of a lot less.

The words are still used a lot as slurs. Denying that is denying facts. We might live in an environment that doesn't use them that way, or even better: not at all. But there are a lot of environments that do. Also, when I go to dictionary.com and search for faggot, it still says "Slang: Disparaging and Offensive . a male homosexual. "

Still no mention of "generic insulting term". Guess we'll have to ramp up our efforts to use fag as much as possible when referring to assholes instead of gays.

 

[Joates]

If you believe this then you must really think the world is a lot less homophobic than it actually is. Can I live in your world?

Any time it is used referring to an inanimate object, I view that as an innocent comment.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Wear this t-shirt in any neighborhood and talk to me about the "PC crowd"

Dang it, I'll break my promise. One more post in this thread. I think that shirt is funny as shit. It's a direct attack on the PC crowd, and nothing more. Will it get some people up in arms? Of course. But those people who take it seriously are far too anal.

I'm white. If Kobe had said "fucking cracker", I wouldn't give a shit. Heck, I think Chris Rock's "Cracka ass cracker" comment is one of the funniest quips I've ever heard. People need to learn to take things less seriously. And if somebody gets their feelings hurt, I just don't care. It's life. It happens to everyone. My advice is to stomach it and move on.

 

[ZephyrFate]

It may not be that great but its a start. You're focusing to much on the negative and that'll get you nowhere.

I focus on reality, not negativity. And the fact is, with how much influence Kobe Bryant has on children as a role model, he's perpetuating the idea that it's okay to say the word 'faggot'. That's kinda unfortunate.

 

[Gaborn]

Dang it, I'll break my promise. One more post in this thread. I think that shirt is funny as shit. It's a direct attack on the PC crowd, and nothing more. Will it get some people up in arms? Of course. But those people who take it seriously are far too anal.

I'm white. If Kobe had said "fucking cracker", I wouldn't give a shit. Heck, I think Chris Rock's "Cracka ass cracker" comment is one of the funniest quips I've ever heard. People need to learn to take things less seriously. And if somebody gets their feelings hurt, I just don't care. It's life. It happens to everyone. My advice is to stomach it and move on.

I think it's a funny shirt too. I still have no interest in wearing it around other people because of how they could easily (and understandably) take the presence of those words on such a shirt.

Sort of like appreciating South Park but not wanting to emulate the characters attitudes

 

[Joates]

The words are still used a lot as slurs. Denying that is denying facts. We might live in an environment that doesn't use them that way, or even better: not at all. But there are a lot of environments that do. Also, when I go to dictionary.com and search for faggot, it still says "Slang: Disparaging and Offensive . a male homosexual. "

Still no mention of "generic insulting term". Guess we'll have to ramp up our efforts to use fag as much as possible when referring to assholes instead of gays.

So the only possible meanings are those in the dictionary. There can be no societal use of the word implying other meaning.

 

[Margalis]

Any time it is used referring to an inanimate object, I view that as an innocent comment.

How often is an inanimate object called a faggot?

I've heard that exactly zero times in my entire life.

 

[ZephyrFate]

So the only possible meanings are those in the dictionary. There can be no societal use of the word implying other meaning.

You are playing the worst game of "invent an argument!" I have seen in a while on here.

 

[Joates]

I think it's a funny shirt too. I still have no interest in wearing it around other people because of how they could easily (and understandably) take the presence of those words on such a shirt.

Sort of like appreciating South Park but not wanting to emulate the characters attitudes

Guess what. I wouldnt wear the shirt either, but I wouldnt bitch at anyone for wearing it either.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

I focus on reality, not negativity. And the fact is, with how much influence Kobe Bryant has on children as a role model, he's perpetuating the idea that it's okay to say the word 'faggot'. That's kinda unfortunate.

Well its better than them hearing the word from their homophobic parents of the last generation? Like I said before, I kind of want to see this as a step in the right direction, the word had a purely negative connotation at first and now its seen as an insult or not at all. You can't expect people to stop using this word in a day.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Well its better than them hearing the word from their homophobic parents of the last generation? Like I said before, I kind of want to see this as a step in the right direction, the word had a purely negative connotation at first and now its seen as an insult or not at all. You can't expect people to stop using this word in a day.

No one's implying that. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't be called out upon it. And where the HELL is faggot NOT an insult? Where the hell do you live?

 

[Cubsfan23]

Yet when is it ever used in any other definition anymore?

b-b-but it once meant something different! has no place in this discussion

so a non-homosexual word can morph into a homosexual one, but a homosexual word (fag) can't morph into a double meaning or something not intended to be a homosexual slur?

lol

 

[Koodo]

lol at this insecure manchild.

Ben Cohen, a real man, speaks out against Kobe:

“It is disappointing to see this. As a professional athlete and rugby World Cup champion, I understand the heat and passion of competition at the highest levels. But we must all remember that strong bodies must be balanced with strong characters, and work toward that end. Our positions as role models demand it.”

So inspiring in many other ways too.

 

[Joates]

You are playing the worst game of "invent an argument!" I have seen in a while on here.

Refuse to believe it can be anything but gay slurs.

I get it and I dont care. You are too PC for me to even care about anymore.

You probably fully support Kraftwerks thread last week about his PC badassness on setting a couple of ignorant HS girls straight on their hateful speech.

 

[ZephyrFate]

so a non-homosexual word can morph into a homosexual one, but a homosexual word (fag) can't morph into a double meaning or something not intended to be a homosexual slur?

lol

as of yet, the homosexual word has not morphed into something of an actual double meaning. It is very much intrinsically tied to its dialogue about sexuality and masculinity. When it does, then yes, it can and will morph.